Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gwalchvad Jul 06, 2009 0:39:00	Ok, first allow me to lay the scene as it were. We all know that Cyric kills Mystra, be it a good thing bad thing, what ever that is beside the point. I am currently running a campaign that will run well past the epic levels using the 3E rules but dealing with the impetus events that cause 4th aka the killing of Mystra (and many other deities) and the resulting chaos. Ok here is my question... Cyric, having read the Cyrinishad is completely insain and believes that he is the only real god, placing himself even above AO. If i remember correctly he even begins seeing the other deities as manifestations of himself. That being said, what could Shar, one of these false gods, possibly have over Cyric? What could she offer him that he could not 'get for himself,' as she is beneath him and couldn't possibly do anything that he could not? And even beyond that (about to go off the deep end here, be mindful if you keep reading as your head may explode) What reason could 'Cyric' (Shar) give himself (Cyric) to kill himself (Mystra) and also convince himself to cause 'Cyric' (Tyr) to kill himself (Helm)? If you have brain cells after that last bit you have more than earned your keep. I am going to have to change the 'actual' events that cause this calamitous event, but anyone who wants to speculate on divine motivations and intrigue is what I am looking for. I am happy to answer questions or further explain if you need or want /inquisitive panda
#2 drizztsmanchild Jul 06, 2009 3:39:57	Is this all taking place before Cyric is read the "True life of Cyric" to by Malik(seraph of lies) and is supposedly cured of that part of his madness?
#3 drizztsmanchild Jul 06, 2009 3:49:42	IMO its his Insanity Persona seeking ways to rid all other Persona's that dwell in Cyric by using those Persona's to wipe each other out therefore leaving the Insanity Persona to reign supreme within the Dieific mind of Cyric. On a side note 4e could all be taking place within Cyric's mind Ha another Cyric supporter surfaces
#4 nightseer Jul 06, 2009 8:59:30	On a side note 4e could all be taking place within Cyric's mind Thats a good one Dr. Manthingy! ;)
#5 suin_bahhar_02 Jul 06, 2009 9:09:45	According to the trilogy the Empyrean Odyssey Shar held a few select secrets from Cyric. Show One was a deception to allow Cyric entrance into Dweomerheart. The second was the location on Dweomerheart of Azuths Staff, an artifect that enneringly reflects magic back at its source. And third was that she intended to betray him to the good dieties right after his murder.
#6 drizztsmanchild Jul 06, 2009 10:02:32	Good points SB, but alas we will never know the full account of what exactly transpired in Dweomerheart until WoTC will allow someone to explain it via novel magazine article etc...
#7 suin_bahhar_02 Jul 06, 2009 13:13:30	Thats why I hope the last novel in the Empyrean Odyssey trilogy will end with explaining a little bit more of Cyrics involvement with Helms death and his imprisonment by Lathander, Sune and Tyr. Cyrics motivations to work with Shar can be manyfold, but his mortal being's love for Midnight can easily have snapped to hatred when all his being is a mixture of the essence of lies, death, strife and murder. A god of these portfolios would covet the ultimate tool to reach his goals, magic. Cyrics ascension was soon followed by him growing into the illusion portfolio through murder. I think he thought to steal a larger piece of the weave for his own use when he would devide the spoils of Mystras murder with Shar.
#8 gwalchvad Jul 06, 2009 23:58:15	Thankyou all for your input, Cyrics continued insanity not withstanding. I had forgotten about Malik 'curing' Cyric. Currently I do not think that we will ever be told the divine reasons for any of these parties actions. Just like one of the Angels in the Empyrian Trilogy states, It's not our place to speculate on the machinations of the divine we just must accept it and continue living the dogma. However as DMs and roleplayers it is exactly 'our' place to do so. That being said the question still stands albeit in a slightly changed form... What could Shar have offered him? and or What could she be holding over his head? Yes we all know of Cyric's Loathing of Midnight, but he through all of it loves (in his own wierd and twisted way) her and has not moved against her before... and what about the whole Triad debacle... and an aside I refuse to believe that anyone could get one over on a god on thier portfolio unless the other party also shared it... Lieing to the god of lies... Thats like getting the better end of the deal when bartering with Waukeen or constructing a golum to destroy the golums of Gond or claiming Tyranical Divinity over Bane. I just don't buy it. now if the subject never came up sure... but not a bold faced lie... I am getting off point...
#9 gwalchvad Jul 07, 2009 0:03:44	Suin Bahhar one thing though... in life he dispised magic and had no heart for it, could not wield it or otherwise if I remember right. What would make him think he could or would now. I do like the idea though and please keep them coming
#10 gwalchvad Jul 07, 2009 0:07:04	IMO its his Insanity Persona seeking ways to rid all other Persona's that dwell in Cyric by using those Persona's to wipe each other out therefore leaving the Insanity Persona to reign supreme within the Dieific mind of Cyric. I think I saw that movie... "Wh***s don't get a second chance" /fade to black :heehee
#11 drizztsmanchild Jul 07, 2009 0:15:45	I hate the fact that I'm defending her(Shar :yuck but maybe at the time of the deal between her and Cyric she wasn't actually lying to him and only changed her mind after the deed was done(such is the way of darkness one can never see what is truely happening). Also with Cyric's portfolio of murder(which he strived to bring to the pantheon as well as Faerun) plus his absolute hatred of Mystra plus his striving to become the most powerful god very little would have been needed for Cyric to join any plot to rid himself of his most hated enemy. I think he let his anger and insanity blind him to that wretched wench's treachery.
#12 suin_bahhar_02 Jul 07, 2009 9:36:18	I think Shar thought that with his loss of the death portfolio to Kelemvor Cyric might have ears for getting power over death oncemore. Shar might have promised him Mystras command over the weave, including the necromantic power with which Cyric might deny the Fugue from Kelemvor again. This was no lie on her part, as even Shar did not know the secret that the weave AND the shadowweave would collapse beyond any dieties grasp. Perhaps Shar did know the secret that the weave would collapse, and Cyric subsequently saw through her lie that he would get control of the weave. Cyric might have lied to Shar aswell and not killed Mystra but contained her, causing both the weave and shadowweave to be beyond Shars (or any other dieties) control. Show Some may know Mystra will escape from the huge gem on top of the Staff of Azuth once it is returned from Asmodeus grasp to realmspace.
#13 drizztsmanchild Jul 07, 2009 9:43:44	Ah speculation. Its what dreams are made of
#14 Mirtek Jul 07, 2009 10:28:00	What could Shar have offered im? Maybe help in sneaking into Dweomerheart. On the other hand Cyric had more right to be there than Shar anyway, given that he was already a deity of magic in his own right (since eating Leira). Other than that slaying annother god is an end in itself for the lord of murder and he wouldn't need someone offering payment to consider this, although he certainly planed to consume as much of Mystras' spilled power/portfolios as he could. He was most certainly accepting the possibility that he would have to immediately fight with Shar over their spoils as soon as he striked the killing blow. but he through all of it loves (in his own wierd and twisted way) her and has not moved against her before... and what about the whole Triad debacle... I have to disagree with him still secretly loving her, even if only in a twisted way. He has instructed his church to fight against her's and already once tried to slay her himself (which forced Mystra to flee from their fight on Pandemonium).
#15 gwalchvad Jul 07, 2009 16:08:03	Ah speculation. Its what dreams are made of just doing my job and feeding the dreamers thank you gang. these should work. anymore is more than welcome so please keep them coming if you have them.
#16 markustay63 Jul 10, 2009 7:07:29	Its simple. Ignore any novel that makes your head hurt. :D
#17 rovin Jul 10, 2009 12:57:04	I think I saw that movie... "Wh***s don't get a second chance" /fade to black :heehee My birthday is May 10th. I really, truly hated that flick.