Who choose to go Warlock, instead of taking time to relearn magic?
What will the fanboy easter eggs be?
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Looking forward to hearing more about Abeir.
Glad to see that the Red Wizards will be going back to their evil roots away from being magic item vendors in 3E. Their entire specialist based magic system though has been rendered invalid. Szass Tam is now in charge, apparently he got his magic back fairly quickly after the spellplague. Maybe he went warlock, I doubt it but maybe. Him being a Lich and a Necromancer before the plague, I figure he will still be a Necromancer, since monsters/npcs don't play by PC rules anymore.
Looking forward to hearing more about Abeir.
I used the Red Wizards in 2e a lot. I didn't use them at all in 3e, didn't run 3e FR much at all actually. 3e killed the Red Wizards, thank Ao they are back.
My first thought was that Szass went Warlock, I'm going to guess that that's it.
That Ed Greenwood had a large part in this new setting has me optimistic. Abier-Toril as his creation is even better.
That Ed Greenwood had a large part in this new setting has me optimistic. Abier-Toril as his creation is even better.
Since when was Ed actually involved? Hmmm...?
I guess that would depend on what you mean by involved? He contributed a substantial amount of writing. Perhaps you have more info than I do? It would be excellent to hear it.
This has actually gone beyond Ed. He, himself, isn't happy at all with the way things have gone--and he did not want it.
There are several individuals here that can give you more credible and substantial info than I. In the meantime, visit the Candlekeep forums and you'll find more.
For Ed's matter, this was a business thing--nothing more.
This has actually gone beyond Ed. He, himself, isn't happy at all with the way things have gone--and he did not want it.
There are several individuals here that can give you more credible and substantial info than I. In the meantime, visit the Candlekeep forums and you'll find more.
For Ed's matter, this was a business thing--nothing more.
Thanks for the reply I will check out Candlekeep for more specifics on his problems with 4e.
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This has actually gone beyond Ed.
It went beyond Ed over 20 years ago, when he elected to sell Forgotten Realms to TSR. Since that time, countless things have occurred against his wishes, but it ultimately means little, since he gave up ownership.
hits in book #2. Hope this helps.18D
-Ed has known about the changes since GENCON2005. As for the Red Wizards, check out the series of novels called the Haunted Lands. Unclean, and Undead have been released. Book #3 will be out next year. The books were written by Richard Lee Byars. Sorry Tam doesn't become a Warlock. He learns a new(meaning 4e style) way of casting spells. Plus the Spellplague
18D
Awesome, I will check that series out. To be honest there have been very few novels from the 3e era that I have enjoyed.
I have met Ed at cons before, I would characterize him as eclectic, which makes him an outstanding artist and very creative. Like any artist he has taken ownership for his art. If FR was my creation I wouldn't like changes that weren't my doing either.
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Like any artist he has taken ownership for his art.
He gave up ownership.
It went beyond Ed over 20 years ago, when he elected to sell Forgotten Realms to TSR. Since that time, countless things have occurred against his wishes, but it ultimately means little, since he gave up ownership.
Oh, I'm aware. But he has always had a voice--at least a minimal one--with FR.
That seems to be gone now. Even his current trilogy doesn't focus on the present, but of the past. And when you see him in the interviews he's done as of late, he really seems to try and covey that he was always with the players, rather than the developers.
He gave up ownership.
I didn't mean ownership in a legal sense, but in a psychological sense. I'm going to bet that he feels that he still has ownership in that sense.
A good example would be Gygax and D&D in general. Gygax felt that he had a mental and emotional ownership of the game, but he had signed legal rights away long ago.
He wrote a bit for the current book. I would call that at least a little voice.
Ed Greenwood a man for the masses against the evil developers. :D
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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I didn't mean ownership in a legal sense, but in a psychological sense. I'm going to bet that he feels that he still has ownership in that sense.
A good example would be Gygax and D&D in general. Gygax felt that he had a mental and emotional ownership of the game, but he had signed legal rights away long ago.
He wrote a bit for the current book. I would call that at least a little voice.
Ed Greenwood a man for the masses against the evil developers. :D
Sorry, I couldn't resist.
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Well, that's why we have editions, I guess.
D&D:
1st: Gygax
2nd: TSR
3rd: WotC
4th: Money, money,money....
FR:
1st: Greenwood
2nd: Maybe Some Greenwood
3rd: "We spoke to Greenwood about things"
4th: Money, money, money...
He had some very positive things to say about 4E at DDXP. I think there's also a great interview with James Wyatt and Chris Perkins talking about Greenwood having a lot of say in the new Realms.
He had some very positive things to say about 4E at DDXP.
-Duh...Are you going to say anything bad about your employers*, when you are doing an interview that is being done by those same people?
*He is not a full-time employee, but they hire him for specific things, and, as they publish the Forgotten Realms, consult him. So, yes, he is an employee, even if he doesn't always have the "official" nametag to go with the title.
-As has been alluded to, when he spoke personally concerning all of these changes, at Candlekeep, he was much more critical of things.
-Duh...Are you going to say anything bad about your employers*, when you are doing an interview that is being done by those same people?
*He is not a full-time employee, but they hire him for specific things, and, as they publish the Forgotten Realms, consult him. So, yes, he is an employee, even if he doesn't always have the "official" nametag to go with the title.
Indeed. He would be considered an outside consultant. He's not actually on the payroll, but simply paid for his time. The developers will go to him if they need to determine if there is a confliction with something that was previously canon or how they can twist the canon to fit the modern version.
Well, that's why we have editions, I guess.
D&D:
1st: Money, money, money....
2nd: Money, money, money....
3rd: Money, money, money....
4th: Money, money, money.... but the game is internally balanced, so that's kind of okay
FR:
1st: Money, money, money....
2nd: Money, money, money....
3rd: Money, money, money....
4th: Money, money, money.... but Greenwood had a hand in designing it, so that's kind of okay
D&D was always about money. The entire point of the gaming industry (as with all other industries) is to make money and it's simply stupid to take offense at a product being marketed with a profit in mind.
It's also stupid to think that because they're trying to make a profit, that they will try to alienate the people who have been the most supportive of the setting. With that in mind, man the **** up and wait until WotC publishes the thing before expending the last piece of sanity any of you might have left on attacking potentially innocent people. It's not like anything you can say can reverse it, what with all the effort put into changing it and the fact that they've sent it into printing.
Wow, I really went off there, didn't I? Meh, the point stands and I think you guys already know that the old Forgotten Realms were getting kind of stale ("getting" being a euphemism for "have been for a loooong time"). It was time for a change ("change" being a euphemism for "kill ****ing everyone and delete ****ing everything").
Meh, the point stands and I think you guys already know that the old Forgotten Realms were getting kind of stale ("getting" being a euphemism for "have been for a loooong time"). It was time for a change ("change" being a euphemism for "kill ****ing everyone and delete ****ing everything").
-Thats where we all disagree. I, and many others, entertain no such notion.
D&D was always about money. The entire point of the gaming industry (as with all other industries) is to make money and it's simply stupid to take offense at a product being marketed with a profit in mind.
It's also stupid to think that because they're trying to make a profit, that they will try to alienate the people who have been the most supportive of the setting. With that in mind, man the **** up and wait until WotC publishes the thing before expending the last piece of sanity any of you might have left on attacking potentially innocent people. It's not like anything you can say can reverse it, what with all the effort put into changing it and the fact that they've sent it into printing.
Wow, I really went off there, didn't I? Meh, the point stands and I think you guys already know that the old Forgotten Realms were getting kind of stale ("getting" being a euphemism for "have been for a loooong time"). It was time for a change ("change" being a euphemism for "kill ****ing everyone and delete ****ing everything").
My man, I am going to disregard everything you just said there, because, as far as I am aware, we've never exchanged posts. But your ****ing tone does **** me off.
Don't assume to ****ing know me.
I agree with you on your points. And, of course, the gaming industry has always been about money. They bought the rights to FR from Greenwood to make money on it. But, this time, the designers themselves said this came down from "corporate." And it has very little to do with Greenwood and his artistic flavor.--the reason I stated those words in the first place.
I'm not against the new FR and never had been--like you said, I need to wait until things are published before I know for sure.
This was about Greenwoods creative ownership over FR.
So, if you didn't get that, then please read back over it and try to understand where I was getting at. If you did read it, then still responded as you did, then **** off. You have no right to jump in and start being an ass like that without knowing why things were said.
My man, I am going to disregard everything you just said there, because, as far as I am aware, we've never exchanged posts. But your ****ing tone does **** me off.
I thought it would amuse you.
Don't assume to ****ing know me.
I thought it would amuse you.
I agree with you on your points. And, of course, the gaming industry has always been about money. They bought the rights to FR from Greenwood to make money on it. But, this time, the designers themselves said this came down from "corporate." And it has very little to do with Greenwood and his artistic flavor.--the reason I stated those words in the first place.
I'm not against the new FR and never had been--like you said, I need to wait until things are published before I know for sure.
This was about Greenwoods creative ownership over FR.
I actually went of against those to whom my words would apply, not you specifically. Your post was just the one that set me off.
So, if you didn't get that, then please read back over it and try to understand where I was getting at. If you did read it, then still responded as you did, then **** off. You have no right to jump in and start being an ass like that without knowing why things were said.
I have every right to jump in and bombard anyone with logic I feel needs an injection. The last poster that told me to "**** off" (or in his own words, "butt out", but the point was the same) got banned for repeated harassment (one thread, three posts, three warnings) and it looks like you might be heading the same way if you don't calm down.
And for the record, I didn't break any rule and I wasn't being an ass to anyone.
I thought it would amuse you.
I thought it would amuse you.
I actually went of against those to whom my words would apply, not you specifically. Your post was just the one that set me off.
I have every right to jump in and bombard anyone with logic I feel needs an injection. The last poster that told me to "**** off" (or in his own words, "butt out", but the point was the same) got banned for repeated harassment (one thread, three posts, three warnings) and it looks like you might be heading the same way if you don't calm down.
And for the record, I didn't break any rule and I wasn't being an ass to anyone.
Look, I'm not going to quote every point you just said. As for the way I responded to that, I think you can ask anyone here if I am ever that retaliatory and they will say I'm not. I do my very best to swallow my pride at any time I think something may escalate to a negative manner.
That said, you did quote me. And, in that regard, when you include "simply stupid", "stupid", "man the **** up", as well as the generally comment about "sanity," that all comes across as negative towards what you quoted me about (which, I feel, was out of context) and myself personally, as I was included with the masses when what I meant by the post wasn't pertaining at all to what you were criticizing.
So, my apologies if my post set you off--it was intended as a reference towards Greenwood's declining role with the Realms and not what the Realms are.
As for the rest, I was not and am not flaming with rage. I simply think that being derogatory to anyone on this board--unless they absolutely deserve it--should not be allowed. And, unfortunately, while you thought it might be amusing, I found it not to be so.
Make you think why the other guy got band when posting replies with you? ;)
You have every right to jump in and state your opinion--especially when you believe that your logic is more sound. I welcome it. I simply don't like feeling attacked because of my own opinion (and especially when it is not my own).
That said, I am guilty of laughing out loud when I first read about the Spellplague and how it messed everything up, and then going to the forums for the sole purpose of reading the posts by people experiencing nerd rage for my own amusement. I still sort of giggle like a schoolgirl when a new poster comes along with the usual "YOU BLEW IT ALL TO HELL WOTC YOU ARE DEAD TO ME NOW AND I WILL NEVER EVER BUY YOUR PRODUCTS".
Makes me think of this picture:
Make you think why the other guy got band when posting replies with you? ;)
Funny story, he contacted me with his new name for the sole purpose of telling me to go to hell, threaten me some more and accuse me of having three sock puppet accounts who were WizOs, no less. I don't think it normally happens but when multiple posts by the same individual are reported, different WizOs might pick up on the reports, delete the posts and send the user a warning (or more often just one WizO who happened to dislike that poster). I just replied with three letters: LOL.
You have every right to jump in and state your opinion--especially when you believe that your logic is more sound.
-I support and espouse this.
Okay, I think we've cleared up most of the misunderstanding. I didn't mean for my post to look like it was targeting you and am sorry about that. I'm also not commonly set off by posts, but if they look like they're just an attack without proper cause that's my trigger.
That said, I am guilty of laughing out loud when I first read about the Spellplague and how it messed everything up, and then going to the forums for the sole purpose of reading the posts by people experiencing nerd rage for my own amusement. I still sort of giggle like a schoolgirl when a new poster comes along with the usual "YOU BLEW IT ALL TO HELL WOTC YOU ARE DEAD TO ME NOW AND I WILL NEVER EVER BUY YOUR PRODUCTS".
Makes me think of this picture:
Funny story, he contacted me with his new name for the sole purpose of telling me to go to hell, threaten me some more and accuse me of having three sock puppet accounts who were WizOs, no less. I don't think it normally happens but when multiple posts by the same individual are reported, different WizOs might pick up on the reports, delete the posts and send the user a warning (or more often just one WizO who happened to dislike that poster). I just replied with three letters: LOL.
Then, well met, Awesome_Dude. :D
I give you the Dookie dance in greeting.
And stop playing with puppets. Stigger has already explained that they are evil. Except for the Muppets. He has a thing for them and I have no idea why.
-I support and espouse this.
Of course, you do. Above all, you would have been banned ages ago if it were not for democracy. ;)
My man, I am going to disregard everything you just said there, because, as far as I am aware, we've never exchanged post
I agree with you on your points. And, of course, the gaming industry has always been about money. They bought the rights to FR from Greenwood to make money on it. But, this time, the designers themselves said this came down from "corporate." And it has very little to do with Greenwood and his artistic flavor.--the reason I stated those words in the first place.
I'm not against the new FR and never had been--like you said, I need to wait until things are published before I know for sure.
The designers actually said that the changes came down from "corporate?" I don't think they need corporate to tell them that FR has become old, dead, and sterile. :D
It lightens my heart to see that you will wait to pass judgment until the book is actually released.
peace
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The designers actually said that the changes came down from "corporate?" I don't think they need corporate to tell them that FR has become old, dead, and sterile. :D
It lightens my heart to see that you will wait to pass judgment until the book is actually released.
peace
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I guess I should say Chris Perkins said it came down from corporate. The designers, of course, discussed it, but the final came from the top. They evidently believed they needed to do something, but how drastic was still in question.
And, of course, I'm waiting on judgment. I must hear all sides before delivering a final verdict. ;)
Of course, you do. Above all, you would have been banned ages ago if it were not for democracy. ;)
-That is not true. How often to I violate any of the CoC rules?
You do not NEED to write a new story line to explain an artist’s new illustration of a kuo-toa.
-If that were the case, Drizzt would have 19 new stories for Drizzt.
Since when was Ed actually involved? Hmmm...?
He made a post about this about a year and a half ago on candlekeep forums
He made a post about this about a year and a half ago on candlekeep forums
As I noted earlier.
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Could anyone summerize the post. I've done searches over at Candlekeep and can't find it.
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-Here it is, word for word, unedited. I wish there were spacings...
Originally posted by The Hooded One (on behalf of Ed Greenwood)
Sage and Arkhaedun, indulge us for a moment, please. Ed will return to lore replies forthwith, but folks are upset and he wants to address that. So . . .
Hi again, everyone. Ed is remaining true to his promise to “be here” for scribes, but warns that he just can’t answer as freely as he might, not just because of NDAs and not wanting to damage the process of unfolding the Realms, but because so much just isn’t known yet (by him, and presumably by most others) about specifics of the 4e Realms.
However, without further jabber from me, heeeeere’s Ed:
Hello, all. I continue to receive e-mails, phone calls, snail mail letters, and in-person queries, beefs, and pleas for reassurance from longtime Realms fans - - and continue to be humbled by the depth of your feeling for the Realms. Thank you, everyone.
Though I am frantically busy trying to get things done before flying off to Australia (during which trip I will almost certainly fall e-silent, BTW) I will try to respond to scribes who have posted in this thread, as I come to your posts in the e-mails THO forwards me.
Red Walker, you’re welcome, thanks for the love, and you are very, very right to say: “Fear of change is natural, and greater fear of Big changes is too!”
The reactions of Realms fans were expected for this very reason. Of COURSE everyone will be upset, or at least anxious, in some way, whether eager for change or hating its possible/probable consequences. Wooly Rupert and others are correct to say we haven’t seen enough yet to really judge the so-called “new” Realms, and I agree.
None of which doesn’t make opinions on it, based on the little we have seen, perfectly valid. Zandilar isn’t the only one to decide that the changes she’s heard about thus far seem “so... well... dumb, to put it bluntly.”
Please, please, all of you: respect each other’s opinions. Disagree with them as heatedly as you want, but please bend over backwards not to disrespect each other for holding them. As it happens, the way the “peekaboo” revelations have thus far appeared (I’m guessing so as to foment maximum “buzz” and therefore unpaid publicity), I agree with Zandilar. Those don’t sound like MY gods. :}
However, Chosen of Moradin quite rightly points out that “a timeline is not an explanation of what happens. It's only a summary. And a summary cannot explain clearly anything. The summary of the Fall of Myth Drannor don't explain the Fall of Myth Drannor. So, to see exactly what happened, we will have to wait until the next FRCS.”
Correct. As I’ve always said, mortals in the Realms can never know the “truth” about divine deeds and intentions, only what’s reported to them. By deities, priests, soothsayers, “possessed” madwits, and in dream-visions - - and ALL of those sources can be mistaken or misinterpreted, or can lie and distort or slant to further their own agendas. Yes, even the gods themselves. So what appears in THE GRAND HISTORY OF THE REALMS is what “the loudest reports say” happened, not what every being in the Realms personally saw and therefore “knows” (and agrees) happened.
It should be obvious to everyone by now that there are major changes in magic and the deities underway, and that the Spellplague is part of that. We now know that it begins in the Year of Blue Fire, in a dramatic way, and that part of Bob’s newest novel takes place a hundred years in the future (at a time when almost all human characters alive in the Realms of “today,” if they haven’t found some magical means of prolonging their lifespans - - in a “magic unstable and unreliable” situation - - will have perished of old age).
Which brings us to eiglos, who posts: “My only current played character in the Realms is a Priestess of Lurue. Her future must be uncertain, unless Lurue returns to her original role in the Realms.”
Passing over the obvious points that everyone’s future is always uncertain, and that the particular priestess will almost certainly have died of old age by the time of THE ORC KING anyway, we know that gods can and have been subsumed by other gods, and that “dead” or fallen gods are still worshipped fervently, just as before, because other deities adopt their followers, still grant spells, and so on - - so mortals may or may not know the true fate of the deity they worship. This MIGHT be one future for this specific priestess. Lurue (or any other deity, for that matter) could of course survive “unchanged,” or change in divine power but keep the same looks, portfolios, aims, and credos. Deities tend to shift subtly all the time in these things, however. And IF we are talking a century of time, that’s a lot of roleplaying (in terms of real-world duration). So for now, eiglos, roleplaying “life” for your priestess can be very much “business as usual.”
I personally would welcome the separation of, say, The Living Realms and the “history” RPGA play therein develops, from my own home campaign. If characters played in an RPGA adventure slay a wizard and blow up his tower, and I’m using both wizard and tower extensively in my home campaign, the potential conflict vanishes; the destruction won’t occur until the future (if mage and/or structure “go down” in my campaign, there’s plenty of in-Realms time for the one to be brought back to life somehow and the other rebuilt, to “explain away” the conflict).
A gamer can play in their own current campaign just as before, peek at eventual 4e Realms releases in hobby shops, at conventions, and via online discussion, and either decide never to go to 4e, or (if the new material at some point seems really exciting) “jump” the characters from one Realmsdate to the other by some magical means (even if it’s “caught in a portal for a century,” and I set just such weirdness up with some comments in SWORDS OF DRAGONFIRE that also “start to” explain the 2e to 3e “map changes” in the Realms without being too explicit, for those who didn’t make the change). Or, if a DM and player group collectively decide to move to the “new” Realms, they can even try to arrange cached treasure and PC breeding so as to “set up” descendants of their favourite characters as adventurers in the future Realms.
So, eiglos, your priestess can have a long and rewarding life and career, regardless.
However, this leads to another important point Zandilar raised: “If I run my campaign prior to the Year of Blue Fire, then I don't need the 4e products. Since I don't need them, I don't buy them. Since I don't buy them, WotC doesn't get my money. WotC doesn't get my money, and it is starting to look like a lot of the "old guard" are going down this path... So WotC starts to loose money, and eventually the line will get cut.”
This is indeed the Big Risk in all of this, the “roll of the dice” that I wish someone had never decided to make (because I personally value the ongoing development of a shared and unbroken imaginary Grand History of a fictional fantasy setting as something magnificent in itself, an achievement we should all continue to contribute to).
Yet it’s happening regardless of my personal wants, and I choose to be onboard trying to paddle and steer, rather than left behind swimming in the water, calling out that perhaps we should have set a different course.
Zandilar is perfectly correct to post: “I've never ever had problems with a business wanting to make a profit. That is, after all, the purpose of a business. But what they're doing here is taking a HUGE risk with a known quantity. They're risking the entire Realms product line with this move, and they seem to have gone to great lengths to rub us old guard up the wrong way with the changes they're making. (Just my perception, I'm sure they haven't deliberately set out to slight us.)”
I don’t think anyone at Wizards set out to deliberately upset or slight anyone. I do think it has been decided to make these changes swiftly, and that very “brutal rapidity” is increasing some of the upset along with the “buzz.”
However, there’s no reason at all to move your own campaign if you don’t want to. IF there’s a hundred-year jump, that’s a LOT of time to roleplay through; most FR campaigns I hear about don’t cover more than ten to twelve years in the Realms unless they incorporate “down time” jumps of their own, before they “run down” and the folks involved start anew.
Yes, the Spellplague is going to shift the flavour of the Realms (if wizards are dying or their magic is going wild or failing, and priests are all upset, too, it follows that the “tone” of daily life and therefore of roleplaying will change a bit), but the Realms is a big place, and there’s no reason yet to suspect that “all civilization will fall.” Waterdeep, Silverymoon, Cormyr - - I don’t think a century will sweep any of them away. CHANGE them, yes, but they’re all changing constantly, anyway; we just usually live with the changes as they’re happening rather than seeing a “big jump-cut.” Nor is there any reason, based on what we’ve seen thus far, to believe that the Spellplague is a single big event, over in a short time; the very name implies something of longer duration, with almost certainly (if real-world “plagues” are anything to go by) varying results from place to place and person to person (this city or region largely unaffected, that wizard untouched, this one over here driven mad; that allows DMs plenty of “elbow room” to preserve the “heart locations” of a beloved campaign, and favourite PCs and NPCs, too; it’s “the rest of the Realms” where the BIG changes occur . . . something that a lot of DMs have already been doing for two decades, as they steer their own campaigns around events in the published Realms).
None of which means my arguments should be seen as quelling, denying, or belittling the personal anger and upset longtime Realms fans are feeling over this. Believe me, I know how you feel. :}
Neriandal Freit, your queries don’t come off as offensive, at all (and I’m glad you loved that little scene in EL’S DAUGHTER; one of my favourite moments, out of everything I’ve written). I hear you and I sympathize, deeply. (And yes, I’ll check out “Redeemers of Dawn,” and let you know; somebody please give THO a heads up when the new Compendium is released, okay?)
My answer begins: Although I know the Realms is intended as “a place to play,” and therefore should be something of a haven from the unpleasantnesses of real life, so we can hold on to elements in it we love and hold most precious, even in the Realms everything changes. I hate changing anything in the published Realms before I finish the (admittedly endless) task of detailing every corner of it (we still aren’t really off the first continent, are we?), but the alternative is static boredom . . . dust settling on statues in silence.
Everything changes; eventually, everyone (even deities, as they are conceived of in the Realms, with power tied to worshippers) dies. So with that said, my "answer direct" to you becomes another question: In real life, and in the Realms, do you NOT fall in love with someone, or befriend them, or work with them on something that interests you both and that you can both be proud of, because someday both of you will die?
I don’t think so. Despite yourself, even if you know we’re all rushing to oblivion, you do it anyway. In the end, that’s what “living” is all about.
We know we’re all doomed (as the song goes: “We’re here for a good time/Not a long time”), but we go ahead and love, laugh, climb mountains, read books, and fall in love with the Realms anyway. At least I did. :}
If it helps you decide, I intend to go on exploring the Realms, bringing us all more detail. Some of it in the “now” Realms, and some of it in the “new” Realms.
I strongly suspect the published Realms will shortly become “new Realms only” in terms of the time-setting of products - - and that many fans may step back from that new Realms. That’s an individual choice I certainly don’t want to try to (further than by setting forth my views here) influence for everyone. It’s going to have to be your call.
I hope you’ll join with Xysma and others in “clinging to the merest sliver of hope that Ed, Eric, and the rest can salvage what at first glance is going to be a nightmare for those of us who love the Realms so dearly,” and therefore at least give the new Realms a look.
I’m going to go right on exploring the Realms, and if that means finding some way to paint in bits of the “Lost Years” in the time-jump, I’ll try to find some way to do that. We MIGHT end up with a Realms of the novels that’s far “ahead in time” of where you or other gamers might be roleplaying, and therefore not conflicting much with your unfolding play. Lovely smell over here, steak sizzling over there, so to speak.
I KNOW it hurts when you’ve come to love and cherish a fictional place and characters, that you can enjoy in your imagination, and someone goes and stomps on what you hold precious. Yet what lies your imagination can be only be hurt if you let it be.
In the Realms, this has all happened before; the Mystra you loved that scene about is Mystra Number 2 (Number 3 if you count Mystryl). The Realms you love grew out of previous planet-shaking debacles. and you may come to like the post-Spellplague Realms.
Or not. I understand and respect both your love for the Realms, and that you feel the way you do right now.
Kuje expressed his dismay early on in this, and many other scribes have cried out between him and you; I understand and sympathize with all of your misgivings and raw emotions. I went through the same thing at a secret summit meeting at GenCon some years ago; believe me, heavy-hitter novelists and game designers who love the Realms have argued about this “change” over and over heatedly.
There’s always a strong streak in gamers and game designers of what I said onstage at the Killer Breakfast this year, when Tracy asked me what my character was going to do, and I replied: “Being a game designer, I go for the bright shiny object.” We always feel the lure of what’s exciting and new.
Yet I deliberately left the ever-busier city where I grew up (“home”) to go and live in the country, to try to cling to some of the good things of the past that were slipping away in the big city. So I’m going through this struggle, too. Lose Syluné? Hell, lose ALL the human NPCs I spent forty years bringing to life? This had BETTER be good!
Wizards of the Coast obviously believes it will be. I’m going to do my best to help them make it so. I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . . .
So saith Ed.
love to all,
THO
Could anyone summerize the post. I've done searches over at Candlekeep and can't find it.
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Do a Google search on "Ed Greenwood on 4th Edition" or something similar. His post as been quoted in other places. That's how I originally came across it.
It's hard to tell when he quoting a post and when he's giving his opinion.
I received a different feel from that post than most of you have. I got the feeling that he is personally going to shift over to 4e, but he can understand the feelings of those that don't want to. He regrets the 100 year jump due to all the work he has put into the setting and characters, but seemed optimistic. I am an optimist, so this could be my slant.
Thank you very much for posting this Karsus.
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I received a different feel from that post than most of you have. I got the feeling that he is personally going to shift over to 4e, but he can understand the feelings of those that don't want to. He regrets the 100 year jump due to all the work he has put into the setting and characters, but seemed optimistic. I am an optimist, so this could be my slant.
I can see him maybe dabbling with it, but I don't see him making the jump personally. He makes it very clear that he was opposed to the changes. He also makes the redundant point that nobody has to make the 100 year time jump and that they have a hundred years of open space in which to create their own Realms.
Being the creator of the Realms, himself; being felt left out of being the creative personality in moving the Realms forward; and being that he so willing states that nothing is fact with FR history and lore, I see him taking this chance to develop the year 1385 and on as his own.
I can see him maybe dabbling with it, but I don't see him making the jump personally. He makes it very clear that he was opposed to the changes. He also makes the redundant point that nobody has to make the 100 year time jump and that they have a hundred years of open space in which to create their own Realms.
Being the creator of the Realms, himself; being felt left out of being the creative personality in moving the Realms forward; and being that he so willing states that nothing is fact with FR history and lore, I see him taking this chance to develop the year 1385 and on as his own.
I am judging from the one post. You seem to be fairly up to date on such things, so I'm going to guess that you have evidence from other posts or a better understanding of the above post. It was a little jumbled and confusing.
From the one post I didn't get that he felt left out.
Of course no one has to make the jump, but nothing will be published that didn't make the jump. You will have to exercise your own creative juices.
I have been doing this. The Gray Box has always been my favorite. I have been running it off and on in 3e for awhile. I recently switched to Eberron at my players request. I am using no house rules and only WoTC material. One of my players told me recently that it was very cool that I wasn't using house rules and they all were very excited. I just don't have the time anymore to be creative, so I will run as is. When 4e hits one of players is going to run, so I will escape 3e DMing purgatory soon.
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I got the feeling that he is personally going to shift over to 4e, but he can understand the feelings of those that don't want to. He regrets the 100 year jump due to all the work he has put into the setting and characters, but seemed optimistic. I am an optimist, so this could be my slant.
-He hasn't converted to 3e yet, or technically, even 2e, as he doesn't use a great deal of events that ocurred afterwards, such as the Time of Troubles.
-That said, the post is very much Ed putting on his "business face" asking people to give it a chance. When one reads in-between the lines, he seems very much in opposition of much of what has happened to the setting.
Thank you very much for posting this Karsus.
-No problem.
-He hasn't converted to 3e yet, or technically, even 2e, as he doesn't use a great deal of events that ocurred afterwards, such as the Time of Troubles.
-That said, the post is very much Ed putting on his "business face" asking people to give it a chance. When one reads in-between the lines, he seems very much in opposition of much of what has happened to the setting.
Personally I'm a Gray Box kind of guy. The only reason I might run the 4e FR is because I just don't have time to convert the Gray Box to 4e. Rules evolve and generally get better. There are some that have stuck with 1e rules. I'm not a huge fan of 3e, but would never go back to 1e. The time of troubles was stupid, but I still played 2e realms, I just didn't have Ao giving the slap down that TSR implemented. Wild magic was silly.
The post is kind of confusing, but I tried to read between the lines and still didn't get that he was in opposition to the changes. I'm sure that there are other posts that clarify your position. As I've said before, if I was in Ed's position, I wouldn't be in favor of them either. Other artists are ruining my creation.
I'm not debating Ed's feelings on the subject, I'm sure that you have more knowledge of the situation than I do. I am debating whether or not the realms is dead or not. As stated this is very subjective. It would be more factual to debate whether the new setting is going to be a success economically or not. When drastic changes have occurred to the FR setting in the past, history has shown that has continued to be a success. I haven't really been involved in 3e FR much. I ask you what is different this time that spells failure for 4e FR?
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Wow that's a lot to digest.
It's hard to tell when he quoting a post and when he's giving his opinion.
I received a different feel from that post than most of you have. I got the feeling that he is personally going to shift over to 4e, but he can understand the feelings of those that don't want to. He regrets the 100 year jump due to all the work he has put into the setting and characters, but seemed optimistic. I am an optimist, so this could be my slant.
Thank you very much for posting this Karsus.
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I doubt he will shift. LK is right I think. His personal campaign is set prior to the events leading to 2e Realms.
Except for the Muppets. He has a thing for them and I have no idea why.
'Cause the Muppets Rock, Judge!
They aren't Metal (well Animal is definitely), but they do Rock!
Oh and those two old dudes, the hecklers. They're just Awesome!
Oh and those two old dudes, the hecklers. They're just Awesome!
I recall LK comparing me to those two at some point
The post is kind of confusing, but I tried to read between the lines and still didn't get that he was in opposition to the changes. I'm sure that there are other posts that clarify your position. As I've said before, if I was in Ed's position, I wouldn't be in favor of them either. Other artists are ruining my creation.
-Bah, you made me have to go through all of that and pick out the "offending" statements...:P
Those don’t sound like MY gods. :}
This is indeed the Big Risk in all of this, the “roll of the dice” that I wish someone had never decided to make (because I personally value the ongoing development of a shared and unbroken imaginary Grand History of a fictional fantasy setting as something magnificent in itself, an achievement we should all continue to contribute to).
Yet it’s happening regardless of my personal wants, and I choose to be onboard trying to paddle and steer, rather than left behind swimming in the water, calling out that perhaps we should have set a different course.
None of which means my arguments should be seen as quelling, denying, or belittling the personal anger and upset longtime Realms fans are feeling over this. Believe me, I know how you feel. :}
Kuje expressed his dismay early on in this, and many other scribes have cried out between him and you; I understand and sympathize with all of your misgivings and raw emotions. I went through the same thing at a secret summit meeting at GenCon some years ago; believe me, heavy-hitter novelists and game designers who love the Realms have argued about this “change” over and over heatedly.
So I’m going through this struggle, too. Lose Syluné? Hell, lose ALL the human NPCs I spent forty years bringing to life? This had BETTER be good!
I recall LK comparing me to those two at some point
-Yes, yes I did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqyFjVnWwto
I can see him maybe dabbling with it, but I don't see him making the jump personally. He makes it very clear that he was opposed to the changes. He also makes the redundant point that nobody has to make the 100 year time jump and that they have a hundred years of open space in which to create their own Realms.
Being the creator of the Realms, himself; being felt left out of being the creative personality in moving the Realms forward; and being that he so willing states that nothing is fact with FR history and lore, I see him taking this chance to develop the year 1385 and on as his own.
I think his group plays in around the 1350s still.
I think his group plays in around the 1350s still.
I don't claim to know--but I believe it completely. It really is his Realms when it comes to him. As they would be mine, if I was the creator.
'Cause the Muppets Rock, Judge!
They aren't Metal (well Animal is definitely), but they do Rock!
Oh, I'm aware that the muppets rock--especially Animal. Stigger simply made me worried after he told me that puppets were bad people. But, evidently, puppets and muppets aren't the same.
So, now, I am left to stew about this situation.
Glad to see that the Red Wizards will be going back to their evil roots away from being magic item vendors in 3E. Their entire specialist based magic system though has been rendered invalid. Szass Tam is now in charge, apparently he got his magic back fairly quickly after the spellplague. Maybe he went warlock, I doubt it but maybe. Him being a Lich and a Necromancer before the plague, I figure he will still be a Necromancer, since monsters/npcs don't play by PC rules anymore.
Looking forward to hearing more about Abeir.
I still don't get why the school system of magic is rendered invalid, there are still spells that fall into previous categories. All the schools did was categorize spells by type, you know grouping illusions with illusions for example...
I still don't get why the school system of magic is rendered invalid, there are still spells that fall into previous categories. All the schools did was categorize spells by type, you know grouping illusions with illusions for example...
I've yet to get a good overview of the full system. Have a link to one?
I've yet to get a good overview of the full system. Have a link to one?
I don't remember where I found a sample listing of some of the higher level wizard powers, somewhere at EnWorld I believe. At any rate, the whole dumping of the school system really smacks of laziness on the developers part.
I just know that some is gonna get all 4th ed Avenger on me for saying that though...just watch.
