And what about the lands from Tarmalune north towards Eskorn through the Sword Lands? Raiding parties of orcs? Goblins? Rampaging hordes of sticks?
Any speculation or solid canon would be helpful!
I also think Abeir Toril would be an excellent way to introduce draconians (introduced to mainstream D&D by Dragon mag) to FR. I know they're Dragonlance only, but the concept is great.
I know the Eminence of Araunt empire is centered in Eksorn, Returned Abeir so wandering specters and ghosts wouldn't be uncommon. Another excellent opportunity to import the Necropolitan from 3E.
Fimbrul hosts earth giants and feral orcs.
I woud put dragon turtles in the Dragon Sea.
Also, Returned Abeir is the resting place of the sleeping Dawn Titans (are they imprisoned?). I would have abyssal genasi appear near these sites (ie Fimbrul and Tarmalune).
Lots and lots of dragons and draconic creatures (ie land wyrms). I wouldn't rule out dire reptilian beasts as well.
I also think Abeir Toril would be an excellent way to introduce draconians (introduced to mainstream D&D by Dragon mag) to FR. I know they're Dragonlance only, but the concept is great.
I don't believe in that concept at all. Not only is this FR, but we now have the dragonborn--specifically prominent because of the return of Abier. There is no place for Draconians.
Also, Returned Abeir is the resting place of the sleeping Dawn Titans (are they imprisoned?).
Imprisoned? From what I remember, lore doesn't suggest much on it--but it's definitely a route to go if it fits your storyline.
As for the Dawn Titans, the "Blazing Rorn of Fury" is rumored to be waking. With that and the "Court of Rorn" conspiring to make such a thing happen, you could create an entire campaign on adventurers trying to stop such a thing alone.
As for the OP, I know they mention land mass, but not sure about water displacement. You can easily assume that the ocean surrounding Abier is simply filled with basic creatures from FR. Or, if you want to spice it up, then, yeah, stick with draconic or elemental types of creatures--either brought in during the Spellplague or because they were drawn to the place for some reason.
I don't believe in that concept at all. Not only is this FR, but we now have the dragonborn--specifically prominent because of the return of Abier. There is no place for Draconians.
I do. Is there existing (canon) lore of Abeir Toril and its inhabitants? If so and it contradicts my suggestions, I will relent. However, if not, I think it would be easy to say that the [mostly] evil dragon overlords of Abeir used foul rituals to corrupt metallic dragon eggs to produce draconian minions. I can totally see Tiamat's claws in the deed. And Bahamut's counterstroke would be the dragonborn. As for the dragonborn historically being the slave race of the overlords, it can be said that their dragon masters could have been evil metallics.
Also, the whole dragon overlord ruling territories filled with slaves sound exactly like what happened in Dragonlance's Age of Mortals. :P
So far, we have dragons, draconic creatures, dragon turtles, elementals (and archons), genasi, and the abyssal genasi, and undead (ghosts, specters, and necropolitans. OH! OH! Why not have the 3.5Necropolitans be Revenants?!?!? That would be a great fit. The necropolitan citizens of the Eminence of Araunt empire could have defied the Raven Queen (Abeir's primoridal death entity) and became revenants through necromancy. This would be a perfect way to reintroduce revenants to Faerun, since Kariansalee was subsumed by Lloth, Kelemvor is too strict, and Jergal doesn't care. :D
Don't forget what happened during the Year of Lightning Storms. The Dragon Eggs falling to Toril. Thats what I would have used to bring the Dragonborn into the Realms. Not the stupid Returned Abeir stuff...
That could totally work. And instead of drgaonborns, Returned Abeir could be host to draconican kingdoms, with Tymanther reworked to be a kingdom conquered by dragonborn, driving out and/or killing the draconians who lived there.
Don't forget what happened during the Year of Lightning Storms. The Dragon Eggs falling to Toril. Thats what I would have used to bring the Dragonborn into the Realms. Not the stupid Returned Abeir stuff...
Right, they didnt need to go through all of that to bring in Dragonborn, especially in a world with lots of Dragons, and Half-Dragons, and Dragonkin. It would of make more sense to just say that they was always there, but theyre more prominent now.
But what can you do? Just grin and bear it, or house rule it. I kinda miss Maztica myself, hand some killer coffee and cigars! Im gonna have to figure out a way to make it to Abeir and back to stock up, probably could make a pretty copper or two if a way between the two worlds is discovered, Im guessing the Shadowfell could be used for such an endeavor.
I do. Is there existing (canon) lore of Abeir Toril and its inhabitants? If so and it contradicts my suggestions, I will relent. However, if not, I think it would be easy to say that the [mostly] evil dragon overlords of Abeir used foul rituals to corrupt metallic dragon eggs to produce draconian minions. I can totally see Tiamat's claws in the deed. And Bahamut's counterstroke would be the dragonborn. As for the dragonborn historically being the slave race of the overlords, it can be said that their dragon masters could have been evil metallics.
Look, my man. I see your mind set completely. When I first learned of the dragonborn a couple of years ago, I started a thread to discuss the same possibility and with the same foundations you bring forth--especially Tiamat and Bahamut, as well as found backing in the egg's 18D mentioned. In the end, I simply found enough evidence and opinion to support that dragonborn were an adapted form of draconian to be used in the Realms--and that draconians weren't and wouldn't be introduced into the FR setting.
Also, the whole dragon overlord ruling territories filled with slaves sound exactly like what happened in Dragonlance's Age of Mortals. :P
It also happened on Toril. 'Tis why we have The Rage. Or did...or something.
What gets me about the Dragonborn popping in from another dimension, is ok fine theres Dragonborn in 4e Realms, but what about all the Half-Dragons runnin around, Theres no mention of them. Or the Dragonkin that hung out around Myth Drannor, I believe it was. They could of easily said Dragonborn cameabout from those races or somesuch. And Tieflings and Genasi had to pop in too, like the Realms didnt already have them too. I like the Idea of the Spellplauge, but I think they went a little too far with it, and used it like a crutch to explain away things, instead of really sitting down and deciding ok how does this, this, and that, fit into 4e Realms.
EDIT: Of course, they wanted to sever ties with all previous editions, so there you go....
maybe they should just rerelease the 3.0 frcs modified for 4e, jusr remove the prcs and alter the feats
and x amount of years later we are still griping about it arent we.
maybe they should just rerelease the 3.0 frcs modified for 4e, jusr remove the prcs and alter the feats
QFT!
Im not gripping too much, I like the Spellplauge, I just think it was way overly used, and for all the wrong reasons.
and x amount of years later we are still griping about it arent we.
maybe they should just rerelease the 3.0 frcs modified for 4e, jusr remove the prcs and alter the feats
Of course they should. But that would be admitting that they were wrong in the first place.
And it doesn't help that there are so few of us left around here that actually oppose the decision for 4e.
I would say that should worry them, but I bet they are still banking on a 4e crowd to fill the gap.
I would appreciate if things would get back on topic which is the danger in or around Returned Abeir.
would of been better if it fixed things instead of doing both..
as for the dangers of ABeir returned or not, just about the same elsewhere for the terrain of each part of it.
I would appreciate if things would get back on topic which is the danger in or around Returned Abeir.
Youre right! that is the topic! I thought this was the complain about the Spellplauge thread. On topic, im not sure what other nastiness there would be in Returned Abeir. How big is Returned Abeir compared to Maztica any way? Did the surrounding ocean get transplanted as well? Perhaps there are still some Maztican sea monsters in the waters? Im not sure what sort of sea monsters Maztica even had, Im gonna have to go dig out that old box set and take a look. Its been too long.
If Maztica lore followed inline with NA history, then I would imagine that sea dragons/serpents would be a prominent, if not a controlling lot.
Returned Abeir (RA) looks smaller to me. The Maztica region was attached to a much large landmass which resembled a bloated North America in shape. When you compare the maps it appears to be smaller. Of course this is all a mute point if the map scale changed between 3.5 and 4e. I think it is safe to say any original sea life a couple of miles off shore still exists. Also, the waters immediately surrounding (coves, harbors) or inside (underwater sea chambers) RA could have came over with its own sea creatures.
Returned Abeir (RA) looks smaller to me. The Maztica region was attached to a much large landmass which resembled a bloated North America in shape. When you compare the maps it appears to be smaller. Of course this is all a mute point if the map scale changed between 3.5 and 4e.
I completely agree. It seems smaller to me as well. But they call it a "continent", so....
I completely agree. It seems smaller to me as well. But they call it a "continent", so....
Well by my calculation its roughly 760 square miles, any one know how big Maztica is? It does seem like Returned Abeir is smaller than the entire continet that Maztica was part of. It seems like it would just take the place of part of the continent, leaving the rest there, I mean Tymanther didnt replace all of Faerun.
Yes, Maztica was bigger than that.
Then, I would ask where MT got his calculations.
Theres a scale on the "official" map as well, I havnt compared them side by side, but I believe they match up. but base on my calculations i believe we are looking at something like this:
Of course as I said i always sucked at math, but i think this is pretty close, I might have Returned Abeir up a little high, I tried to keep it even with Maztica.
Then, I would ask where MT got his calculations.
Of course as I said i always sucked at math, but i think this is pretty close, I might have Returned Abeir up a little high, I tried to keep it even with Maztica.
Yeah it looks a little off. I would put Abeir up even more, wasn't Maztica closer to Evermeet than that? And I think Returned Abeir need to be bigger. If its 760 square miles then it would defenitly bigger that that. I think you should check you scales again.
I resized Returned Abeir & Evermeet until the scales mached up, so by the book these should all match up.
So Sliversword on your map, both Abeir and Evermmet should be bigger, I'm not sure about the placement or anything, how did you determine that?
Then, I would ask where MT got his calculations.
erdana, 'sans-serif'; color:#000000; font-size:9pt">I believe MT got the calculations from the Interactive FR Atlas. As for RA's sea life spreading out…well… One, they have spread out and a future article/novel will mention it. Two, the sea life went extinct. The reasons could be the native Relam’s sea creatures ate them, they couldn’t change to the new environments, etc.. Three, there is no reason for the sea life to spread out further. The food source is good and the climate is perfect.
It could be that the Swordlands in the southern parts of Learakond have a colonies of Yuan-Ti in those forests. I love me some of these reptilian foes. Zehir might have been the Abeiran version of Sseth, i.e. an splintered aspect of the primordial worldserpant Dendar. He might have sprawling forest temples where his serpantfolk practise bloody nighttime sacrifices of hearts of men and dragonborn alike. It could be that these Yuan-Ti are only recent settlers aswell, having found new subjects for their conquest of the hairless races.
Does Abeir have an underdark? I think Markus Tay and I mused on the consequences of the transposing of Abeir in the underdark under the great seas of Toril. Most of the lost and cut off tunnels must have seen some serious flooding action when their ends suddenly were transposed to the duodimension of Abeir.
The possibility of Laerakonds underground caverns could still be there if they would have formed through mixed orcish and draconic burrowing or other subteraneous lifeform activity. You can think of abberations like beholders, mindflayers or go all out and make you're own ecosystems with cavernous creatures burrowed from Darksun, Birthright and other fantasy settings.
Don't forget what happened during the Year of Lightning Storms. The Dragon Eggs falling to Toril. That what I would have used to bring the Dragonborn into the Realms. Not the stupid Returned Abeir stuff...
QFT.
On topic: I've always wondered about the concept of arambar energy that causes the metallic-colored haze (called steelsky) in the sky over Returned Abeir, which is itself a remnant of Arambar the Dawn Titan.
If that titan's power was so great as to permanently change the color of the sky, might its power still linger to wreak havoc? Assuming Arambar fell at the hands of dragons, could a sense of vengeance or anger permeate the energy....sort of the Titan's last thoughts as it died by claw, fang and breath weapon?
This could be in the form of sudden, vicious storms or freak weather events.
Or perhaps arambar causes flying creatures to magically change form. Imagine a hippogriff caught up in a magical storm and suddenly growing two or three size categories, becoming magic resistant and infused with an overwhelming desire to slay and eat any living thing it sets its eyes upon. This change will wear off only after the beast's bloodlust is satiated, or if it is slain.
Perhaps arambar energy can cause living spells to form. For example, say an arambar infused thundercloud emits a bolt of lightning that strikes and slays an arcane power user. This results in a half-sentient, man-sized living cloud of dark green color forming that can turn itself into a living bolt of lightning once per encounter, and mindlessly seeks to slay dragonborn, dragonkin and dragons alike...
I'd be tempted to use this badboy on the left as well. Perhaps make a smaller sort for lower level encounters to use more frequently.