Which type of "elf" do you think would fit the redeemed Dark Elves best? I, for one, think it an odd choice for them to be "elves" according to 4e stats, despite the retcon that they were Green Elves (another odd choice, I think, but that has little to do with this). In the Realms, Wood and Wild elves at least have a reason why they became more tied to Toril, losing their link with Faerie and, thus, falling into the 4e "Elf" stats. But after the Descent, Drow civilization never really seemed to be reduced to that level. Take modern Drow cities for example, especially places as wonderously described as Menzoberranzan.
Anyway, that's why I feel Eladrin might be more appropriate, but being that I'm hardly an expert, and that I'm certainly not involved in any of these changes, I'd mostly like to know what everyone else thinks on it.
Moon elves, Gold elves, Copper elves, Wild elves, Dark elves, Avarial, Lythari... etc... etc... are all just different sub-races of elves on Faerun.
Eladrins are Celestials! Period!
To answer your question, I'd say leave the Drow as elves and not Eladrins. They are already a +1LA by 3.5 standards anyway. 4ED has simply erased 30,000 + years of elven history.
Which type of "elf" do you think would fit the redeemed Dark Elves best? I, for one, think it an odd choice for them to be "elves" according to 4e stats, despite the retcon that they were Green Elves (another odd choice, I think, but that has little to do with this).
I think you've answered your own question. Redeemed drow "revert" to their original status of Green elf. IIRC, Green elves then broke up into Wood and Wild elves and thus using the Elf stats of 4E. As for Racial feats reguarding the differences of Wood and Wild, I would probably go with Wood elf because I don't see dark elves and redeemed Drow as wild in any sense.
My original assumption that all elves in FR were "eladrin" at some point (and please, let's not dredge up the recent edition war for this. I'll leave it at the fact that I disagree and move on) turned out to be different than what the designers had in mind, and according to the explanation I got there -is- a disconnect there between the early green elves and later elven races from Faerie. I like Iakhovos' explanation, so I'm going to stick with that
quoted from there for those that didn't see it.
The ancient elves of Faerie (4E Feywild) worshiped fey gods and nature spirits (what 4E would term as primal powers). Keep in mind that this period of history is impossibly ancient. Only one “sub-race” of elves existed at this time, the green elves; themselves the children of the fey creator race.
Following the Dawn War between gods and primordials, the god Corellon sought a race whose worship he could claim. He created the eladrin in the image of the elves and granted them magic, art, and ‘civilization’.
Back on Toril, the time of the creator races ended as dragon overlords conquered much of the world. Before retreating to Faerie, the fey creator race opened gates allowing green elves to immigrate to Toril. With their primal powers, the green elves succeeded in limiting the expansion of the dragon-ruled territories. By the time the eldarin (sun elves) found their way to Faerûn the age of dragons was already in decline.
Though there were of course exceptions to this rule, most eladrin at this time worshipped the Seldarine and commanded mastery of arcane magic, while the elves retained their faith in archfey and nature spirits who granted them supremacy in primal power.
Strong in their beliefs many followers of the Corellon and the Seldarine wished to impose their religious devotion on the “heathen” green elves. In many cases they were quite successful, with many green elves adopting the faiths of Rillifane, Solonor,or others.
One tribe of green elves in particular, the Ilythiiri, were staunch in their rejection of Corellon. Where was saintly Corellon Larethian, when their kind were being slaughtered by the dragon overlords? Desperate in their struggle, these southern elves turned to other, darker, powers to aid them in their fight (Ghaunadaur among others) against the dragons.
Millennia later, the coronal of the eladrin nation of Aryvandaar sought to spread the faith of the Seldarine to their “primitive” neighbor Miyeritar. To the coronal’s thinking (goaded on by the fallen angel Malkizid) any elf which rejected the ‘true faith’ of the Seldarine was branded a ‘dark-elf’ and must be forcibly brought into the faith. The green elves of Miyeritar resisted and Aryvandaar invaded, thus beginning the Crown Wars.
When Miyeritar was scoured by killing storms, the Ilythiiri were outraged. By this time the Ilythiiri (not all ‘dark elves’) were largely corrupted by their dark gods. Using vile magic, the ilythiiri marched and burned their way across the south. Reports of these atrocities just further reinforced the belief in the eladrin that Corellon’s teachings were the only ‘right and true’ path.
In time the eladrin (and Seldarin worshiping green elves) came together to cast the mighty ritual which would finally force the dark-elves to embrace the light of the Seldarine. But something went awry in the casting. Instead of bringing the heathens into the fold, the high magic bleached the hair and darkened the bodies of the non-believers to onyx (all non-believers mind you, the majority being green elves but a score or more eladrin as well). Thus were the drow of Faerûn born. Their striking similarity in appearance to the children of Kiaransalee leading some to believe that dark goddess may have had a hand in corrupting the high magic ritual which led to the dark-elves’ transformation.
And this still allows for the early dark elves to worship those deities we knew they followed, since it doesn't really go into specifics beyond the Archfey and Non-seldarine bits. We know that the Miyeritari worshipped Eilistraee to some extent, so it still fits, with her being removed from the Seldarine at that point.
I'm not saying this is the only way to look at it, either, but I like this enough that it justifies the way things are in my Realms game
I think you've answered your own question. Redeemed drow "revert" to their original status of Green elf. IIRC, Green elves then broke up into Wood and Wild elves and thus using the Elf stats of 4E. As for Racial feats reguarding the differences of Wood and Wild, I would probably go with Wood elf because I don't see dark elves and redeemed Drow as wild in any sense.
Yeah, I think so too.
Getting rid of the old Elven subraces was bad enough.
There was a richness and a culture to it all.
Now everything is dark, gloomy, and simplified and on top of that, Eladrin are no longer Chaotic Good Celestial Paragons.
If you guys need me, I'll be with Pathfinder.
for the purposes of this discussion, though, when I say Eladrin, I mean moon/sun/star elves. If I want to refer to the celestial outsiders, I'll say Noble Eladrin.
Yes, let's stay on topic, please ^_^
for the purposes of this discussion, though, when I say Eladrin, I mean moon/sun/star elves. If I want to refer to the celestial outsiders, I'll say Noble Eladrin.
See, as far as I know, Celestial Eladrin no longer exist. Noble Eladrin do, however, but are considered to be uber-powerful Eladrin who transcend the norm.
-I usually use quotation marks, myself. "Eladrin" are Sun/Moon/Star Elves, because, well, they're Sun/Moon/Star Elves.
Exactly. Eladrin is a term which is/was used in the Feywild, and has semi-ported over into the world after the Spellplague. Most Sun/Moon/Star elves still refer to themselves as such without a second thought.
The only Eladrin I could see calling themselves by that term, are the ones from the Feywild.
Eladrin is a term which is/was used in the Feywild, and has semi-ported over into the world after the Spellplague.
-I don't know about that part. I don't have the books at this moment, though- does it say anywhere that any Elves refer to themselves using that term? As far as I know, it's solely a metagame term. The one 4e book I've read, the "Eladrin" character, Kiril Duskmourn, is mentioned by a fellow character, Raidon Kane, as a Star Elf, and not an "Eladrin". She'd technically be from the Plane of Faerie, if we go with the idea that the Sildeyuir always was/just moved there.
Moon/Sun/Star elves are Moon/Sun/Star elves in my book, end of story, and I don't actually use the term Eladrin in my game unless referring to those that are actually from the Feywild and not Toril