dealing with a spellfire wielder? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

dealing with a spellfire wielder?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
xpochian
Jul 15, 2008 14:05:08 heya all,

it hasn't happened yet, but i'd like to warm my new-to-the-realms PCs to the idea of spellfire - one of them is a cleric of Mystra (We play 3.5) and would most likely be fairly interested in the mechanics of it. especially since the spellfire wielder would most likely be an evil NPC.

however, i come to the problem of adjucating the mechanics of spellfire as written - they seem like they could easily be abused; if i understand correctly an NPC with a Con. score of at least 13 could 'store' 13 spell-levels and release this as a 13d6 (Ref. 20 for half) blast against the PCs...even though he's a 2nd level fighter? seems a tad overpowered.

my own thoughts/proposed changes are as follows:

1. you cannot release a blast of more dice than your con. modifier.
2. the above is overrulled with the spellfire chaneller PrC, which adds to the above number, your spellfire chaneller levels as extra blast die.
3. the save, instead of a flat 20, is 10 + your charisma mod + spellfire levels released

this is an early, early crack at fixing the feat, PrC, but i'd really like it to be in my campaign and would appreciate any and all criticisms or thoughts.
thanks!
#2
lord_karsus
Jul 15, 2008 14:19:21 -While I do not have any tips or advice for you, I agree that Spellfire can easily be abused. One way to curtail the problem would be to not hand it out to players who you don't think are 'mature' enough to handle it.
#3
markustay63
Jul 15, 2008 14:21:52 Turn Spellfire users into Warlocks - the rules for them are near-perfect, and much better for balance then the official Spellfire rules.
#4
lord_karsus
Jul 15, 2008 14:23:02
Turn Spellfire users into Warlocks - the rules for them are near-perfect, and much better for balance then the official Spellfire rules.

-You'd have to either just give the character the Eldrich Blast ability (which doesn't factor in any of the other uses for Spellfire, just the blasting part), or 'Gestalt' them.
#5
markustay63
Jul 15, 2008 14:26:41 I wouldn't bother with most of the other Spellfire abilities, or I would just add them in as Feats.

I would also make the PC take a level of Warlock (calling it Spellfire Weilder) before handing them over such a powerful ability.

Hmmmm... a Warlock Path that emulates Spellfire... I think I just added project #4387 to my list. :P
#6
nymrohd
Jul 15, 2008 14:36:38 I think Spellfire would work best as a multiclass-only class.
#7
markustay63
Jul 15, 2008 14:40:11 Or a generic PrC, takeable by any class, but requiring at least level 3 (bare minimum). I haven't read any of the Spellfire novels, but I believe there is a very young (inexperienced) girl that gets the ability. thats all fine and good for a novel character, but for the sake of game balance I wouldn't allow it so early in a PC.
#8
nymrohd
Jul 15, 2008 14:43:05 Well Shandril could have a single level of rogue as well.
#9
markustay63
Jul 15, 2008 14:45:21 What did she do before that? What is her background?

We could 'fudge' it and say she had a level Expert: Basketweaver, and then a single PC level of Rogue - that should fulfill a lev 3 requirement for the PrC.
#10
nymrohd
Jul 15, 2008 14:50:14 She was a tavern maid that joined an adventuring group as their rogue after picking up their weapons in the common room I think? Long time since I read spellfire. Her mother I think was also a spellfire wielder and a magic-user (I think an incantatrix actually).
#11
nymrohd
Jul 15, 2008 14:50:54 And anyway how can you not have read Spellfire? I never liked it, I will trash it any opportunity I get, but still it is a must read for an FR fan.
#12
markustay63
Jul 15, 2008 14:51:18 Hmmmm... now I'm thinking that it should be a Bloodline....
#13
nymrohd
Jul 15, 2008 14:54:11 Oh no it is not a bloodline. It can be passed on but it can also appear spontaneously, or be granted as a gift by mystra. Heck if a mage is truly ingenious he can probably manage to tap into spellfire through study (I think Sammaster did that while studying his silver fire).
#14
markustay63
Jul 15, 2008 15:14:50 So it could be a class, a PrC, and a bloodline.

Hmmm... just different ways to accomplish the same things - laying the smack down with Eldritch blasts. :P

I'm thinking about changing it to a more generic 'Mage Fire', and using the same mechanics for Spellfire, Blue Fire, Silver Fire, Shadow Fire, Magic Fire (Kossuth's version?), etc, etc...

Just different ways to tap directly into a power source and use it's Raw energy.
#15
nymrohd
Jul 15, 2008 15:19:14 Well Spellfire has a definite power source. It is raw magic.
#16
lord_karsus
Jul 15, 2008 15:46:22
Well Shandril could have a single level of rogue as well.

-Yeah, that's why I said it have to be a 'Gestalt' thing, if reflected as Warlock levels.

And anyway how can you not have read Spellfire? I never liked it, I will trash it any opportunity I get, but still it is a must read for an FR fan.

-Never read it, either.
#17
opal-dragon
Jul 15, 2008 15:49:14 the cheap option: just give her skill points in pickpocket. Or thievery if she is 4th ed version.
#18
alediran
Jul 15, 2008 15:51:49 This is very ironic, but one of The Vault members just made this thread:

http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=109
#19
nymrohd
Jul 15, 2008 15:51:58 Shandril never really mastered spellfire, the strongest thing she could manage was the crown of fire and that only with a lot of assistance. If anyone is planning to give spellfire a lore accurate attempt for 4E Volo's Guide to all things magical has the most comprehensive attempt at what spellfire can do.
#20
lord_karsus
Jul 15, 2008 15:56:19
This is very ironic, but one of The Vault members just made this thread:

http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=109

-That's a great website, that Realmsvault. I encourage everyone to register and participate there. It's pretty awesome.
#21
ody_saraph_of_karsus
Jul 15, 2008 16:01:53
-That's a great website, that Realmsvault. I encourage everyone to register and participate there. It's pretty awesome.

LOL talking about shameless plug
#22
nymrohd
Jul 15, 2008 16:06:04 This board has so many shameless plugs it is hard to notice them at this point
#23
lord_karsus
Jul 15, 2008 20:34:05 -This board has so many shameless thugs it is hard to notice them at this point.
#24
nymrohd
Jul 15, 2008 20:43:40 The crown of fire ability would really work well as a pact boon now that I think about it. Making spellfire into a pact for warlocks has a lot of potential. Gonna work on that.
#25
lord_karsus
Jul 17, 2008 18:26:13 -Are there actual rules for making pacts and such?
#26
nymrohd
Jul 17, 2008 18:32:41 No you choose a pact at creation and making the pact is part of the background.
#27
lord_karsus
Jul 17, 2008 18:34:49 -Yes, I know that. What i mean is, since you said you want to create a pact, there are guidelines that they give you?
#28
nymrohd
Jul 17, 2008 18:37:15 No not really. But there is enough material on the core class for someone to duplicate. You need about 20-25 powers for the pact (1 per level maybe 2 on some levels) a pact boon, a paragon path, and maybe a few feats.
#29
lord_karsus
Jul 17, 2008 18:43:00 -Geeze, that's a lot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 xpochian Jul 15, 2008 14:05:08	heya all, it hasn't happened yet, but i'd like to warm my new-to-the-realms PCs to the idea of spellfire - one of them is a cleric of Mystra (We play 3.5) and would most likely be fairly interested in the mechanics of it. especially since the spellfire wielder would most likely be an evil NPC. however, i come to the problem of adjucating the mechanics of spellfire as written - they seem like they could easily be abused; if i understand correctly an NPC with a Con. score of at least 13 could 'store' 13 spell-levels and release this as a 13d6 (Ref. 20 for half) blast against the PCs...even though he's a 2nd level fighter? seems a tad overpowered. my own thoughts/proposed changes are as follows: 1. you cannot release a blast of more dice than your con. modifier. 2. the above is overrulled with the spellfire chaneller PrC, which adds to the above number, your spellfire chaneller levels as extra blast die. 3. the save, instead of a flat 20, is 10 + your charisma mod + spellfire levels released this is an early, early crack at fixing the feat, PrC, but i'd really like it to be in my campaign and would appreciate any and all criticisms or thoughts. thanks!
#2 lord_karsus Jul 15, 2008 14:19:21	-While I do not have any tips or advice for you, I agree that Spellfire can easily be abused. One way to curtail the problem would be to not hand it out to players who you don't think are 'mature' enough to handle it.
#3 markustay63 Jul 15, 2008 14:21:52	Turn Spellfire users into Warlocks - the rules for them are near-perfect, and much better for balance then the official Spellfire rules.
#4 lord_karsus Jul 15, 2008 14:23:02	Turn Spellfire users into Warlocks - the rules for them are near-perfect, and much better for balance then the official Spellfire rules. -You'd have to either just give the character the Eldrich Blast ability (which doesn't factor in any of the other uses for Spellfire, just the blasting part), or 'Gestalt' them.
#5 markustay63 Jul 15, 2008 14:26:41	I wouldn't bother with most of the other Spellfire abilities, or I would just add them in as Feats. I would also make the PC take a level of Warlock (calling it Spellfire Weilder) before handing them over such a powerful ability. Hmmmm... a Warlock Path that emulates Spellfire... I think I just added project #4387 to my list. :P
#6 nymrohd Jul 15, 2008 14:36:38	I think Spellfire would work best as a multiclass-only class.
#7 markustay63 Jul 15, 2008 14:40:11	Or a generic PrC, takeable by any class, but requiring at least level 3 (bare minimum). I haven't read any of the Spellfire novels, but I believe there is a very young (inexperienced) girl that gets the ability. thats all fine and good for a novel character, but for the sake of game balance I wouldn't allow it so early in a PC.
#8 nymrohd Jul 15, 2008 14:43:05	Well Shandril could have a single level of rogue as well.
#9 markustay63 Jul 15, 2008 14:45:21	What did she do before that? What is her background? We could 'fudge' it and say she had a level Expert: Basketweaver, and then a single PC level of Rogue - that should fulfill a lev 3 requirement for the PrC.
#10 nymrohd Jul 15, 2008 14:50:14	She was a tavern maid that joined an adventuring group as their rogue after picking up their weapons in the common room I think? Long time since I read spellfire. Her mother I think was also a spellfire wielder and a magic-user (I think an incantatrix actually).
#11 nymrohd Jul 15, 2008 14:50:54	And anyway how can you not have read Spellfire? I never liked it, I will trash it any opportunity I get, but still it is a must read for an FR fan.
#12 markustay63 Jul 15, 2008 14:51:18	Hmmmm... now I'm thinking that it should be a Bloodline....
#13 nymrohd Jul 15, 2008 14:54:11	Oh no it is not a bloodline. It can be passed on but it can also appear spontaneously, or be granted as a gift by mystra. Heck if a mage is truly ingenious he can probably manage to tap into spellfire through study (I think Sammaster did that while studying his silver fire).
#14 markustay63 Jul 15, 2008 15:14:50	So it could be a class, a PrC, and a bloodline. Hmmm... just different ways to accomplish the same things - laying the smack down with Eldritch blasts. :P I'm thinking about changing it to a more generic 'Mage Fire', and using the same mechanics for Spellfire, Blue Fire, Silver Fire, Shadow Fire, Magic Fire (Kossuth's version?), etc, etc... Just different ways to tap directly into a power source and use it's Raw energy.
#15 nymrohd Jul 15, 2008 15:19:14	Well Spellfire has a definite power source. It is raw magic.
#16 lord_karsus Jul 15, 2008 15:46:22	Well Shandril could have a single level of rogue as well. -Yeah, that's why I said it have to be a 'Gestalt' thing, if reflected as Warlock levels. And anyway how can you not have read Spellfire? I never liked it, I will trash it any opportunity I get, but still it is a must read for an FR fan. -Never read it, either.
#17 opal-dragon Jul 15, 2008 15:49:14	the cheap option: just give her skill points in pickpocket. Or thievery if she is 4th ed version.
#18 alediran Jul 15, 2008 15:51:49	This is very ironic, but one of The Vault members just made this thread: http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=109
#19 nymrohd Jul 15, 2008 15:51:58	Shandril never really mastered spellfire, the strongest thing she could manage was the crown of fire and that only with a lot of assistance. If anyone is planning to give spellfire a lore accurate attempt for 4E Volo's Guide to all things magical has the most comprehensive attempt at what spellfire can do.
#20 lord_karsus Jul 15, 2008 15:56:19	This is very ironic, but one of The Vault members just made this thread: http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=109 -That's a great website, that Realmsvault. I encourage everyone to register and participate there. It's pretty awesome.
#21 ody_saraph_of_karsus Jul 15, 2008 16:01:53	-That's a great website, that Realmsvault. I encourage everyone to register and participate there. It's pretty awesome. LOL talking about shameless plug
#22 nymrohd Jul 15, 2008 16:06:04	This board has so many shameless plugs it is hard to notice them at this point
#23 lord_karsus Jul 15, 2008 20:34:05	-This board has so many shameless thugs it is hard to notice them at this point.
#24 nymrohd Jul 15, 2008 20:43:40	The crown of fire ability would really work well as a pact boon now that I think about it. Making spellfire into a pact for warlocks has a lot of potential. Gonna work on that.
#25 lord_karsus Jul 17, 2008 18:26:13	-Are there actual rules for making pacts and such?
#26 nymrohd Jul 17, 2008 18:32:41	No you choose a pact at creation and making the pact is part of the background.
#27 lord_karsus Jul 17, 2008 18:34:49	-Yes, I know that. What i mean is, since you said you want to create a pact, there are guidelines that they give you?
#28 nymrohd Jul 17, 2008 18:37:15	No not really. But there is enough material on the core class for someone to duplicate. You need about 20-25 powers for the pact (1 per level maybe 2 on some levels) a pact boon, a paragon path, and maybe a few feats.
#29 lord_karsus Jul 17, 2008 18:43:00	-Geeze, that's a lot.