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Deities on a timeline?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Neely
May 02, 2008 14:43:30 Hiya folks ^^

I was wondering if there is any place, web or book alike, that has a sort of overview on the deities placed upon a timeline?

Why am I asking?
I'm currently trying to build the picture of what deities excisted on Toril during the Fall of the Netheril.
At this stage, I've only got it as far as the native deities... and I would like to extend it with the immigrated deities.

Thanksalotties!
#2
Stigger
May 02, 2008 15:55:48 A Grand History of the Realms is the closest thing I can think of, but not really what you're looking for. From what I understand, we're not really supposed to know the exact timeline of the deities as such, as evidenced by the apparently purposeful ambiguity of the details of the Dawn Cataclysm.
#3
Neely
May 02, 2008 16:33:45 Ah, yes, the Dawn Cathaclysm. I remember I encountered it a long time ago and the lack of information about it. I heard the same reason back then that mortals are not to know the exact affaires of the gods.

However, since I found in the Empire of Magic 2nd edition book the information about what native deities ruled Toril around the Fall of Netheril, I tried to complete the retrospective of that age for all the pantheons.
#4
Stigger
May 03, 2008 2:06:49 There's sources out there I'm sure... but I've never really heard much elaboration on the Talfiric or Coramshan/Calimshan (never really recall which it was) pantheons that were around then, or any others that may have been around then. It would be interesting to find out though, I agree.
#5
old_sage
May 03, 2008 6:58:08 Lost Empires of Faerûn provides brief information on some of the long-ago pantheons of the historical Realms.

Are you looking for any dates/deities in particular? I may be able to direct you to some relevant sources.
#6
Neely
May 03, 2008 9:44:49 Thank you Old Sage, my particular interest lies with the age of the Netherese (The Silver Age if it should make a difference). ^^
#7
gray_richardson
May 04, 2008 1:01:13 We have some clues to what gods were worshiped back then but not a comprehensive list or timeline.

We do know that before the Fall of Netheril there was no unified Faerûnian pantheon. From the introduction to Faiths & Pantheons, there were about 4 major human pantheons that were popular in 4 distinct geo-political spheres, and then a handful of other gods from other regions.

In Netheril itself (see the Netheril boxed-set) they had a pantheon of 10 gods which included: Amaunator, Jannath, Jergal, Kozah, Moander, Mystryl, Selûne, Shar, Targus, and Tyche.

In Jhaamdath we know that they worshiped Auppenser most prominently but these gods also are associated with the area: Borem, Garagos, Helm, Murdane, Oghma, Silvanus, Talona, Valigan Thirdborn, Eldath, Lliira, Milil, Waukeen. Please note that Valigan rose up in power after the flood and may not have been known during the time of Jhaamdath proper. Murdane was "drowned" concurrently with the flood. Also Waukeen is a very young goddess and seems to have originated near the end Jhaamdath, either when they had established trade with Coramshan/Calimshan and around the Sea of Fallen Stars, or after the flood with the Jhaamdathan diaspora. She may not have been too prominent or even have existed during most of Jhaamdath's heyday. Also it is likely that a few gods were pan-spheric and were known to all or at least multiple pantheons. Jergal would likely be one that was known in Jhaamdath. And possibly also some aspect of Chauntea.

In the Heartlands and along the Swordcoast North lived the Talfiric peoples and the Talfiric pantheon is thought to have included: Auril, Chauntea, Kiputytto (until she was killed off by Talona in -33 DR), Lathander, Loviatar, Malar, Mielikki, Sune, Talos, Tempus, Umberlee, and Valkur.

Note: Sune seems to be a more recent goddess. I speculate she may be the daughter of Selûne and Lathander and may have been born after the Fall. Others have speculated that she is an aspect of Venus that interloped perhaps to Chessenta with the Imaskari slaves brought from Rome. But She could easily have been a native Talfiric goddess with portfolios that overlapped Selûne's and to whom Selûne ceded power with the merging of the pantheons.

We know the least about Calimshan. Their pantheon included at least 3 gods that we know of: Anach (who was later absorbed into Tyr or Anach-Tyr), Ibrandul, and Bhaelros. It is unclear if Bhaelros was just an alias for Kozah/Talos, or if Bhaelros was an independent aspect or fragment from Talos, but if so it is clear that he was completely reabsorbed back into the Talos/Kozah godhead after the Dawn Cataclysm. I find the question interesting in that if he was just an alias then that means Talos was a pan-spheric god. But if Bhaelros was in fact a separate entity, then that means Kozah, Talos and Bhaelros were all separate fragments from the original god of Destruction that was born from the War of Light and Darkness between Selûne and Shar, and who later recombined into a single divinity.

Other gods of note:

Ubtao was active in Chult as far back as at least -2637 DR.

There was a minor pantheon of 10 human gods in the Yuir wood of whom only 5 names are known: Elikarashae, Magnar the Bear, Relkath of the Infinite Branches, The Simbul, and Zandilar the Dancer and who have long since died out or merged with other deities.

Some version of Siamorphe (not the current version) seems to have existed along the Sword Coast for at least as long as there has been nobility in Tethyr/Amn.

Shaundakul is very ancient thought to have originated in the the ancient Rus pantheon, which also included Dendar the Night Serpent, known to them as Nidhogg.

The Elemental Gods are worshiped in many regions under different names and include: Akadi, Grumbar, Istishia, and Kossuth.

There are countless other gods that were worshiped in Kara-Tur, Maztica, Zakhara and other lands.

The following gods did not exist until a later period, most of them are ascended mortals or interlopers (or both): Azuth, Bane, Beshaba, Bhaal, Cyric, Deneir, Finder Wyvernspur, Gargauth, Gwaeron Windstrom, Ilmater, Kelemvor, Myrkul, Mystra, Nobanion, Red Knight, Savras, Sharess, Torm, Tymora, Tyr, Velsharoon.
#8
Stigger
May 04, 2008 2:12:46 You could probably make an arguement for Tymora and Beshaba being semi-native since they both fragmented from Tyche... though the word 'most' there says that you almost definitely already took that into account. :D
#9
Neely
May 04, 2008 2:24:39 Thanks Gray Richardson, that was a remendous contribution! ^^

Any record on the pantheons of the other races at that time? Including Mulhorandi and Untheri?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Neely May 02, 2008 14:43:30	Hiya folks ^^ I was wondering if there is any place, web or book alike, that has a sort of overview on the deities placed upon a timeline? Why am I asking? I'm currently trying to build the picture of what deities excisted on Toril during the Fall of the Netheril. At this stage, I've only got it as far as the native deities... and I would like to extend it with the immigrated deities. Thanksalotties!
#2 Stigger May 02, 2008 15:55:48	A Grand History of the Realms is the closest thing I can think of, but not really what you're looking for. From what I understand, we're not really supposed to know the exact timeline of the deities as such, as evidenced by the apparently purposeful ambiguity of the details of the Dawn Cataclysm.
#3 Neely May 02, 2008 16:33:45	Ah, yes, the Dawn Cathaclysm. I remember I encountered it a long time ago and the lack of information about it. I heard the same reason back then that mortals are not to know the exact affaires of the gods. However, since I found in the Empire of Magic 2nd edition book the information about what native deities ruled Toril around the Fall of Netheril, I tried to complete the retrospective of that age for all the pantheons.
#4 Stigger May 03, 2008 2:06:49	There's sources out there I'm sure... but I've never really heard much elaboration on the Talfiric or Coramshan/Calimshan (never really recall which it was) pantheons that were around then, or any others that may have been around then. It would be interesting to find out though, I agree.
#5 old_sage May 03, 2008 6:58:08	Lost Empires of Faerûn provides brief information on some of the long-ago pantheons of the historical Realms. Are you looking for any dates/deities in particular? I may be able to direct you to some relevant sources.
#6 Neely May 03, 2008 9:44:49	Thank you Old Sage, my particular interest lies with the age of the Netherese (The Silver Age if it should make a difference). ^^
#7 gray_richardson May 04, 2008 1:01:13	We have some clues to what gods were worshiped back then but not a comprehensive list or timeline. We do know that before the Fall of Netheril there was no unified Faerûnian pantheon. From the introduction to *Faiths & Pantheons, there were about 4 major human pantheons that were popular in 4 distinct geo-political spheres, and then a handful of other gods from other regions. In Netheril* itself (see the Netheril boxed-set) they had a pantheon of 10 gods which included: Amaunator, Jannath, Jergal, Kozah, Moander, Mystryl, Selûne, Shar, Targus, and Tyche. In Jhaamdath we know that they worshiped Auppenser most prominently but these gods also are associated with the area: Borem, Garagos, Helm, Murdane, Oghma, Silvanus, Talona, Valigan Thirdborn, Eldath, Lliira, Milil, Waukeen. Please note that Valigan rose up in power after the flood and may not have been known during the time of Jhaamdath proper. Murdane was "drowned" concurrently with the flood. Also Waukeen is a very young goddess and seems to have originated near the end Jhaamdath, either when they had established trade with Coramshan/Calimshan and around the Sea of Fallen Stars, or after the flood with the Jhaamdathan diaspora. She may not have been too prominent or even have existed during most of Jhaamdath's heyday. Also it is likely that a few gods were pan-spheric and were known to all or at least multiple pantheons. Jergal would likely be one that was known in Jhaamdath. And possibly also some aspect of Chauntea. In the Heartlands and along the Swordcoast North lived the Talfiric peoples and the Talfiric pantheon is thought to have included: Auril, Chauntea, Kiputytto (until she was killed off by Talona in -33 DR), Lathander, Loviatar, Malar, Mielikki, Sune, Talos, Tempus, Umberlee, and Valkur. Note: Sune seems to be a more recent goddess. I speculate she may be the daughter of Selûne and Lathander and may have been born after the Fall. Others have speculated that she is an aspect of Venus that interloped perhaps to Chessenta with the Imaskari slaves brought from Rome. But She could easily have been a native Talfiric goddess with portfolios that overlapped Selûne's and to whom Selûne ceded power with the merging of the pantheons. We know the least about Calimshan. Their pantheon included at least 3 gods that we know of: Anach (who was later absorbed into Tyr or Anach-Tyr), Ibrandul, and Bhaelros. It is unclear if Bhaelros was just an alias for Kozah/Talos, or if Bhaelros was an independent aspect or fragment from Talos, but if so it is clear that he was completely reabsorbed back into the Talos/Kozah godhead after the Dawn Cataclysm. I find the question interesting in that if he was just an alias then that means Talos was a pan-spheric god. But if Bhaelros was in fact a separate entity, then that means Kozah, Talos and Bhaelros were all separate fragments from the original god of Destruction that was born from the War of Light and Darkness between Selûne and Shar, and who later recombined into a single divinity. Other gods of note: Ubtao was active in Chult as far back as at least -2637 DR. There was a minor pantheon of 10 human gods in the Yuir wood of whom only 5 names are known: Elikarashae, Magnar the Bear, Relkath of the Infinite Branches, The Simbul, and Zandilar the Dancer and who have long since died out or merged with other deities. Some version of Siamorphe (not the current version) seems to have existed along the Sword Coast for at least as long as there has been nobility in Tethyr/Amn. Shaundakul is very ancient thought to have originated in the the ancient Rus pantheon, which also included Dendar the Night Serpent, known to them as Nidhogg. The Elemental Gods are worshiped in many regions under different names and include: Akadi, Grumbar, Istishia, and Kossuth. There are countless other gods that were worshiped in Kara-Tur, Maztica, Zakhara and other lands. The following gods did not exist until a later period, most of them are ascended mortals or interlopers (or both): Azuth, Bane, Beshaba, Bhaal, Cyric, Deneir, Finder Wyvernspur, Gargauth, Gwaeron Windstrom, Ilmater, Kelemvor, Myrkul, Mystra, Nobanion, Red Knight, Savras, Sharess, Torm, Tymora, Tyr, Velsharoon.
#8 Stigger May 04, 2008 2:12:46	You could probably make an arguement for Tymora and Beshaba being semi-native since they both fragmented from Tyche... though the word 'most' there says that you almost definitely already took that into account. :D
#9 Neely May 04, 2008 2:24:39	Thanks Gray Richardson, that was a remendous contribution! ^^ Any record on the pantheons of the other races at that time? Including Mulhorandi and Untheri?