Has anyone else run an FR-esque game in some other world? I know people can run homebrew FR games and change a lot, but I'm talking about actually porting the FR feel along with a lot of the other stuff onto another map?
In that thread I mentioned, I happen to make a comment about being able to run an FR-style game on any world, including Eberron, and vice-versa (playing Eb using FR setting).
I'm just wondering if anyone has tried this, Since my point in that thread was that DMs decide the flavor, NOT the setting books, it should be possible to give any setting the 'feel' you want.
In Eberron, its much more about the action then whats going on behind the scenes, with a lot of 'Erol Flynn' style maneuvers and over-the-top acts of heroism (or villainy). I just get the idea that FR is more 'subtle' in it's appeal.
I guess its all a matter of how you view each setting.
Any how, what I mean is that I can take FR and say that the Gondsmen really went to town after their inital successes during (and after) the ToT. They started mass-producing simple magical items, and golems designed to make common labor easier.
Not wanting to be outdone, Thaymart began to up it's production as well, producing other useful items.
Aurora's stores start to feel the bite of competition, and start to include a messenger service in her network of stores (thereby creating the very first Realms-wide mail system).
Halruaa decides not to get left behind in all this magical research, and begins to build docking stations in the major cities of the Realms for their airships, providing convenient transport for the masses.
Then the Dwarves decide to build a transportation system of their own, for people who don't like heights (like Dwarves). this system would be based on technology they've already developed for their mining industry, and would use a system of rails and cars...
Give it a few years, add in a war or two, have the Gondsmen and others build some Automaton Soldiers...
Wallah... I have just 'Eberronized' the Realms. My game would still be set in the Realms, with all the Realms characters and lore, but it would feel (and play) like an Eberron game. By the same token, I could de-emphasize all that 'Shiney' in Eberron and base the game on intrigue and exploration, and it would be exactly like I was running a game in the Realms... without the Realms.
I think you can take any setting, and just add (or subtract) a few things, and you'll have the setting you want to run on the world you want to use. Hell, if you say the Spellplague knocked Toril closer to the sun, and magic never came back - making psionics rise to the forefront - you just easily turned FR in Dark Sun.
I thought of this because I was thinking of eventually doing a 'Nakit' version of the Eberron map in the 3eFR style, and then DMs could use it anywhere, as either their own homebrew, or as another continent somewhere on Toril. One of the reasons why I started making my own maps is so that I can change the official campaign worlds to better suit my needs, without having to create a world from scratch. I just thought it might be an interesting experiment to take all of the FR Kingdoms and locales and transplant them onto anopther map, and see how that works out (although that is not exactly what I'm talking about here, but it is along the same lines - running a certain setting, but using a differnt world).
Like in Golarion, maybe? :D
An FR-style game could easily be run on Golarion, which I think was the idea. You could even do DL or GH and I don't think it would make any difference.
The published adventures certainly push this theme.
However, the root of each adventure (that is, the four adventures we played through before Miss_Miscellany's campaign group fell apart) is based on deep setting history and chugs along due to what's going on behind the scenes between various power groups.
Not sure how on topic my response is. Just my
I definately think a Dungeon Master can capture whatever feel they want in pretty much any setting. I do think certain settings lend thmselves to certain types of games. I think this is why its sometimes fun to run games against type as a change of pace and refresher. for instance, run an occasional murder mystery if the party is used to to many dungeon crawls or if RP and intrigue is the norm, try an old fashioned pulp romp.
What I meant was thet FR lends itself more to exploring ruins of lost empires, while trying to avoid (or help) various power-groups in the Realms.
In Eberron, its much more about the action then whats going on behind the scenes, with a lot of 'Erol Flynn' style maneuvers and over-the-top acts of heroism (or villainy). I just get the idea that FR is more 'subtle' in it's appeal.
I guess its all a matter of how you view each setting.
I always thought that Eberron was very much, if not more, about what is going on "behind the scenes" then Forgotten Realms. The entire setting is all about secret societies and plots... politics as an extension of war by any other means. Not to mention that exploring the ruins of lost empires is one of the KEY themes of Eberron. The lost empire of the giants? The fallen empires of the orcs? Searching the ruins of Xen'drick? Hell, India Jones is listed as one of Eberron's key inspirations!
Honestly, the biggest difference between Eberron and Forgotten Realms, for me, was about the nature of the past events, the nature of the NPC's (though this is less true with Forgotten Realms 4e), and the "feeling" of the time period (medieval vs. magical Renaissance). And, the feeling part is more my personal perception then truth. After all, FR has always had firearms and cannons, Eberron does not.
I will agree though, Forgotten Realms does feel a LOT more like middle earth with high magic then Eberron.
-No Elminster, though. I won't let him overshadow my PCs and NPCs (Inside joke).
And there are enough lost civilizations on Eberron to provide ruins to explore. Also, the dragons, quori, daelkyr, Aerenal elves, and Lords of Dust are powerful enough to bring high magic (psionics) into play.
Anyway that type of story can be played out in FR as well I figure. Hell you could even run a skyship battle or a fight on a "train" in both settings if you wish IMO.
I guess my point is so confusing, I'm not sure exactly what I meant.
It all boils down to this - do you even need 'the Realms' to run a game that has the same feel as an FR game. Unfortunately, the rather poor example I gave was for the opposite (which also applies to the topic). I demonstrated how I can run FR for a group of Eberron players, and they would feel right at home.
The reason why I bring this up is because several things had me thinking about this subject, including yet another post I made at CK, about FR and old Dragon Magazine articles. When I first started to run the Realms, I was pretty clueless about them, and the group I was teaching the game to knew more about them then me. When I ran those first few sessions, I had used old Greyhawk modules I was very familiar with and had already run several times, and I placed them in the Dales... and no-one was the wiser. The group thought they were in the Realms (and technically, they were), but I was using all my GH material for the game, until I developed new stuff of my own.
I guess my point is that a setting doesn't really determine the style of game we run, WE do. A DM thats been playing for years can take any setting and run a game, but it will probably all feel the same to his players no matter what he runs. A setting is just that - a backdrop, like the set on-stage of a play, whereas the DM writes the story.
Huh? The Eberron Campaign Guide has been released already?
No, I was looking through the 3e-Eb guide because I had gotten the two groups of Elves mixed-up.
Unlike 3e, I'm fairly certain I won't be purchasing ANY non-FR 4e products, especially since I'm ambivalent about the FR material itself at this point. I do love the Eberron books I have, though, and that map makes me drool.
It all boils down to this - do you even need 'the Realms' to run a game that has the same feel as an FR game.
-The Forgotten Realms doesn't have a "niche" feeling- that's the beauty of it, which is why it's so successful. It has niche areas within it, but, as a whole, it's mainstream fantasy. Can something be mainstream fantasy and not be the Forgotten Realms? Of course.
If your players weren't told they were playing Eberron, would they think they were playing in the Realms?
Good question.
The answer is that none of us would conclude we were playing in the Realms.
Practically speaking it'd would have been too hard for the DM to hide what we were playing in. Those adventures had us running from one continent to another, going from city to town to everywhere in between and mixed up in several plots all at once. It also had all the Eberron staples (Dragonmarks, Warforged, Shifters --and that's just amongst the player characters).
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I think the “feel” of an FR game is generated by the use of known setting elements.
If a DM sets a game in Waterdeep, but doesn’t play up Waterdeep or use what it has to offer, then that particular game might as well be set anywhere.
That’s not to say such a game can’t be fun. On the contrary, it can be a blast (I’ve played in at least one game like this). But you need cooperative players and a good DM to pull it off.
However, if a DM utilizes Undermountain, the city watch, the wards of the city, Skullport, the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the names of the streets, buildings and alleyways, the nobility and so on, then you get a Realms feel to the game.
This speaks more to Markus’ earlier comments about 4E and the 4E Realms. If you give a place a name and tell a fledgling DM a little bit about it (say two pages worth in a sourcebook), can you expect the DM to take that information and do OK with it?
If I hadn’t gotten into the setting from the beginning, I’d be tempted to say no, it’s not enough. But, having grown up with the Realms, I’m inclined to say yes.
Should WotC not print more sourcebooks, though....well then they’ll have a problem, IMO.
-The Forgotten Realms doesn't have a "niche" feeling- that's the beauty of it, which is why it's so successful. It has niche areas within it, but, as a whole, it's mainstream fantasy. Can something be mainstream fantasy and not be the Forgotten Realms? Of course.
This to me is 100% accurate. It is a popular setting but very generic fantasy, which is not a bad thing. Some areas have a certain "feel" that may be different but it is a place that can appeal to many style of games and gamers. When I run an EB game I have lots of references to the Dragonmarked Houses, 5 Nations, I have the players needing their "papers' so they can travel across national borders. It is a setting that has a very different feel. If played in Xendrick then maybe it can be played with a genric feel to it.
The current game I am in is set in Amn for the moment but so far it can be placed in another setting very easily IMO.
Does an FR game have to be played in FR?
nah
I've Planescaped, Eberronized, Golarionized, blew parts of Shaar to be like Dark Sun, used Shires from Mystara for Lurien etc. but for now I'd never do the opposite cause I feel that the ''core'' of the Realms (Heartlands and around) perfectly represent what normal fantasy should be, everything else is exoticness
When I run an EB game I have lots of references to the Dragonmarked Houses, 5 Nations, I have the players needing their "papers' so they can travel across national borders.
-This can (and should, in my type of DMing) happen, regardless of it being Eberron, the Forgotten Realms, or whatever else. When you have a civilized, organized kingdom, city-state, nation, whatever, of course they're going to want to check the 'papers' of those who come in and out.