Once you get to the ramparts you fight almost nothing but wererats! Having run Keep on the Shadowfell I know Wizards tends to fixate one particular monster (kobolds for the start of KotS) and throw in as many as they can, but this was ridiculous! Almost every battle had a wererat.
Now these buggers can give you filth fever every time they bite you (which is a basic melee attack). Once you contract filth fever (which happens any time they successfully bite you) you have to make an endurance check after an extended rest, which if it doesn't cure the bite, then you lose -2 to most of your defences and I believe possibly attacks. Plus it limits how many healing surges you can regain.
In other LFR modules this hasn't been an issue because you almost never take an extended rest during it. However Spellguard is so big, you have to take multiple ones (simply to regain all the surges you spend throughout normal combat).
Thankfully our DM recognised how ridiculous this was and so inserted a way for us to overcome the disease, because the adventure ALSO lacks any way to cure it.
Fortunately it would appear we have no more wererats to contend with, but this first part certainly didn't inspire confidence in us, and our DM was being extremely friendly towards us. What have other people's experiences been?
Now these buggers can give you filth fever every time they bite you (which is a basic melee attack). Once you contract filth fever (which happens any time they successfully bite you) you have to make an endurance check after an extended rest, which if it doesn't cure the bite, then you lose -2 to most of your defences and I believe possibly attacks. Plus it limits how many healing surges you can regain.
Well, there was errata on the Filth Fever that your DM may not have known about.
Filth Fever [Revision]
Monster Manual, page 180
Replace Endurance stable DC 16, improve 21" with "Endurance improve DC 16,
maintain DC 11, worsen DC 10 or lower".
If he has been using the errata, then I don't really have any other help for you. Good luck though.
In addition, the place where you can find all the Errata for 4th.
Well, there was errata on the Filth Fever that your DM may not have known about.
Filth Fever [Revision]
Monster Manual, page 180
Replace Endurance stable DC 16, improve 21" with "Endurance improve DC 16,
maintain DC 11, worsen DC 10 or lower".
Aaah, well that makes it much more balanced (he didn't know about the errata). If you get a crappy roll, then you can get a crappy roll. But any decent roll should be good enough.
Thanks for that.
Aaah, well that makes it much more balanced (he didn't know about the errata). If you get a crappy roll, then you can get a crappy roll. But any decent roll should be good enough.
Thanks for that.
No prob. I thought the same thing too when I ran a quick 4e adventure using rats.
Enjoy the Tunnel going south ;)
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when the party enters the tower. I thought there were way too many generic battles with dark creepers, gnomes and ettercaps. I eliminated some off the battles -- mostly the ones towards the top of the tower.
Enjoy the Tunnel going south ;)
Yeah, I found the catacombs to be the best part
Thoran's encounter though did not come, they moved up to where the oni was and waited. The party enters the room is hit be a cloud of darkness (the dark stalker) move down the staircase. The rest of this batle was on the starcase :/ and that sucked because it seemed like the module didn't prep around this idea.
After that encounter I cleared the tower, no point in just going on up there (those encounters were for if they palyers were captured)
Thanks in advance.
Long answer: It is what you make it. As with all adventures, it works best when you fit it to your group.
Now, that doesn't mean I don't buy them... quite the contrary. I just read them, then change them, build off of them, and use them as spring-boards for my imagination. Usually the maps and floorplans make it worth-it, even if nothing else.
What usually starts off as a one-session 'quickie' turns into an entire story-arc.
I look at them this way - they are the 'barebones' that 4e is so famous for, and we are meant to use them as a starting point. I would never use a pre-fab as-is... not even back in OD&D. Especially considering that every party is different, and brings different skill-sets to the table. What one group might consider a 'cake-walk', another might consider an 'unbeatable challenge'.
BTW, I am including the player's 'skill sets' in that as well - a group of good players will figure-out a way, and a group of poor players will die running Uber-PCs. That is why you must tailor the adventures to your players as well as their PCs.
Didn't mean to start a DMing: 101 session here - I just thought I'd explain why I still buy modules even though I think they are all 'sucky'.
Ive only bought Scepter Tower of Spellgard, but some of my friends own others like Keep on the Shadowfell, Pyramid of Shadows and Thunderspyre...
Dull plots, linear development, repetitive encounters... nothing new here. They barely encourage rpging (except for maybe Thunderspyre one), being basically uninspiring dungeoncrawls.
Take for example Scepter Tower... way too many fighting encounters for my taste... i did remove some of the wererat encounters, making the ramparts a much more smaller part. I added different factions in the catacombs; some belicouse ones (like f.e. gnoll marauding group that took shelter in the ruins, cult of the dragon necromancers investigating the undead in the keep, teh undead themselves...), some others that could be talked into alliances (pilgrims coming for the spirit wisdom, etc). In the tower, yet again, several similar encounters that i tweaked to make more fun/interesting, adding also several changes to how the binding ritual worked and some more background to the shadar kai´s reason for being there (besides awww lets trap this spirit... duh).
If you want some nicer plots i can recommend you the pathfinder adventure paths. Youll find some well though adventures with deeper plot, well described enviroments, more NPC interaction, some fun ideas for implementing skill challenges (i remember some chase through rooftops on one of those that was a big fun), and nice art. They can be easily converted to 4E.
Best reggards.
Its up to the individual group to adjust how much RPing they want to do (and I've played with groups on both ends of the spectrum).
The one thing I really like about the 4e rules is that they put all the real RPing back into the hands of the DM. You don't need rules for that, and no module, no matter how well made, is going to get a group to roleplay well if it doesn't want to.
Just grab the 'Phat Lewtz' and have a good time... I find that when it comes to roleplaying in different groups, your milage may vary. If you want more chances to RP in an adventure, you should insert them yourself - books can't do that for you.
(SPOILERS AHOY!)
#1: The Plot.
Where do I begin...? It just boggles the mind.
Okay. Lady Saharel is a good oracle lich. When I described this to my party, they were certain they heard me wrong, and I don't blame them. This is one of the first adventures the party will experience, and if it is your first campaign, this is also the critical time for developing your credibility as a DM. That sort of falls apart when the term "good oracle lich" comes into play. It's mind-boggling. It wouldn't be so bad if the campaign gave some introduction to it, or even suggested hiding the fact that she is a lich until the end.
Second, the villain's plot involves capturing Lady Saharel. The story establishes her as oracular and mysterious and leaves it at that. It's never explained why she doesn't just appear and blast the villain to pieces: lichs are traditionally quite powerful, and an oracular lich should be all the more dangerous. Sadly, it's up to the DM to figure this out.
Speaking more to that plot, the villain needs certain missing alabaster pillars which are scattered around the Keep. Without these, he cannot complete the ritual to summon Lady Saharel. Now, here's the funny thing: the adventure gives the players plenty of opportunities to intuit that the villain needs these. The adventurers can theoretically literally end the entire adventure by just breaking one of the pillars over their knees. A DM will need to either abandon this, fix this, or give the villain some other method of completing his important ritual.
#2: Barthus
Barthus is a relatively high-level solo who can crush the party unless they have been aimlessly wandering and getting into random encounters. The party will be somewhat unprepared for him, as the book does not suggest the party has heard ANY rumor of a powerful vampiric cleric of Bane in the catacombs. Add to that the fact that he isn't really party-level appropriate: the designers phoned it in on this one and just dropped a level 11 vampire lord by five levels using the easy level-drop system. This means that all of Barthus' defenses, and his hit points, are too high. Furthermore, he has three sources of healing and there is no reasonable way to halt his natural regeneration. To top it off, it's entirely possible to wander into Barthus' room by accident and, by doing so, cause his five vampire spawn minions to arrive in short order. Say hello to high-damage flanking minions and good-bye to the party.
#3: Randomization
Random Encounters = Bad
Treasure room door locks with a 20% chance of failing and requiring the party to find someone who can reforge a key, and need to keep making the several hour trip back and forth until it is done right = also bad
#4: "Praise be to Pelor!"
This is the line spoken by the oni in the tower when he is pretending to be an old man.
I had to double-check the FRCG to be sure I was not mistaken.
Pelor is NOT in Forgotten Realms. He isn't a greater god, lesser god, or even an exarch. The designers actually meant Amauntor, and nobody caught it! This is probably the worst mistake of the bunch in its own special little way.
a newbe wrote it.
you could take the best of the community here and write a homebrew adventure and do better.
which leaves me out...
Okay. Lady Saharel is a good oracle lich. When I described this to my party, they were certain they heard me wrong, and I don't blame them. This is one of the first adventures the party will experience, and if it is your first campaign, this is also the critical time for developing your credibility as a DM. That sort of falls apart when the term "good oracle lich" comes into play. It's mind-boggling. It wouldn't be so bad if the campaign gave some introduction to it, or even suggested hiding the fact that she is a lich until the end.
The word 'lich' shows up a grand total of twice in the book (a book only for the DM!), and only once relating to the Lady. Why did you tell them?
The characters certainly dont need to know that. Its not in the player handouts based on Kuryon's Analects, so he didnt know either. I doubt Thoran even knows that, hes just trying to bind a powerful spirit. All they know is a ghost can predict the future, and knowledge is power. If Thoran or the PCs knew the L-word, they would probably run away screaming! :D
I havent read through it all yet, maybe I'm missing a big reveal where she says "Yep, I'm a lich. Boo!" I plan on running it in a general way in a few sessions. Players are 7th level now so by the time they get there the combats will have to be written from scratch, and reduced from 30+ combats to more like...3. But the interaction between the various seeker NPCs should be good.
The word 'lich' shows up a grand total of twice in the book (a book only for the DM!), and only once relating to the Lady. Why did you tell them?
The characters certainly dont need to know that. Its not in the player handouts based on Kuryon's Analects, so he didnt know either. I doubt Thoran even knows that, hes just trying to bind a powerful spirit. All they know is a ghost can predict the future, and knowledge is power. If Thoran or the PCs knew the L-word, they would probably run away screaming! :D
I havent read through it all yet, maybe I'm missing a big reveal where she says "Yep, I'm a lich. Boo!" I plan on running it in a general way in a few sessions. Players are 7th level now so by the time they get there the combats will have to be written from scratch, and reduced from 30+ combats to more like...3. But the interaction between the various seeker NPCs should be good.
actually she's an archlich, but she had her body destroyed and is supposed to be a ghost these days.
didnt anyone read a grand history of the realms when they wrote this??
Here's a pic of her from that tome -
Note that even that pic, which is displayable in the Download: Maps section (don't ask), is entitled "Ghost Sorceress of Spellgaurd by Jason A. Engle"
Pretty self-explanatory... either no one who works for WotC bothers to read the campaign material anymore, or she grew a new undead body since 3e.
So shes a (30th level arcane caster) ghost in both 4e's Spellgard and Lost Empires; the story all matches up. Destroyed in the Time of Troubles fighting Manshoon, cannot rest until Manshoon is dead. Has a thing for Elminster and Harpers. Only one Manshoon in 4e, and the Harpers could use rebuilding anyway (PCs?!). This all fits together nicely.
Now that I look at it, pretty much the whole story for Spellgard comes from Lost Empires, including the bit about getting her to answer questions if you restore parts of her castle. Not only did they read the campaign material but they lifted it right up and dropped it into 4e. That story could fit the 3e Realms with little alteration.
So by the time my PCs talk to her, after she tests them against the local overreaching wizard that plans to capture her (as if), she will use her prophetic powers to two ends:
1) Direct the PCs against the Zhents, which are already a major campaign villian.
2) Maybe prod them in the direction of old Harper ruins, ghosts or something...that part will take more thought.
4e pic:
The monster, I know, says "you contract filth fever". But if you check the disease rules, you'll see you don't actually contract it - you have a CHANCE of contracting it.
At the end of the combat you make a save. You only make one save, no matter how many times you potentially contracted the disease. If you make the save, you don't have Filth Fever. If you fail the save, you do.
And then, as people have said, you have the chance of curing it after an extended rest.
That gives the Netherease Sorceress a sexy new body, and puts Shoon in a bad situation (almost like Voldemort at the beginning of the HP novels).
I think Saharel deserves something good after all these years...
In my experience Scepter Tower is very much a grind-style of adventure. Sure you've got the random encounters the DM can put together on the journey to the Scepte Tower, catacombs and a couple set encounters and some roleplaying opportunities at the Monastery and at the camps in the environs of the ruins, but once the players hit the Tower that's where it really gets going, with very little rest (in 4E terms, short rests at most) in between encounter unless the players make some effort to fortify their position.
Grinding isn't necessarily bad, but it can become repetitive when you face the same monsters. Scepter Tower has a good mix overall, but the Tower encounters keep using the same bad guys. So I'm tweaking the adventure to include a wider variety of creatures (thank you Monster Manual). My players are higher level than the adventure calls for so I have some room to play around with the creature mix on each encounter.
The other tweaks I'm making are standard ones involving fitting Scepter Tower into my campaign. I ran Scepter Tower right after Keep on the Shadowfell, so I had to establish some links between the main bad guys in each adventure and tie their efforts into a unified threat against Cormyr.
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Regarding this thread specifically: I didn't find the adventure premise to be odd or out of place. Helpful oracles of one kind or another have always existed in the Realms. I can see some players scratching their heads at first (the types of players that think all ghosts are evil bad guys, that sort of tunnel vision thinking...), but it's not like the adventure itself is bereft of ideas on how to get the players motivated --Adventure Book One of the module gives over a whole page to getting the players going, and lists 5 broad categories that are further subdivided into twenty five distinct reasons a player character could be seeking Saharelguard.
Someone mentioned earlier that WotC is only providing encounters with no role playing. That statement --in general, and not just with regard to this adventure-- is total rubbish. This adventure has several good roleplaying opportunities from beginning to end. Note these are in addition to regular skill challenges found in the adventure. The group I DM for had a lot of fun facing off with the Free Company of the Crescent inside the Monastery of the Precipice as well as Vannak of the Dragonborn. That last was a great lead-in for me to add a new Dragonborn player character to our group.
The only true complaint I have with the adventure the unnecessary subdivision of information. I'm getting used to the two book format for adventures, but even then within Adventure Book Two the designers made the wrongheaded decision to summarize room descriptions, read aloud text and treasure lists in one part, then put more read aloud text, encounter information and room information in another part. Twice I told my players there was nothing of value (when they completed Encounter T7: Kitchens and Encounter T8: Feast Hall) before realizing the treasure lists weren't on the same page as the encounters they'd just completed!
As an an experienced player with over twenty years of gaming under my belt, I would recommend this adventure to those who play 4th Edition D&D.