Dragonborn in the Forgotten Realms - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Dragonborn in the Forgotten Realms

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Acrilos
Aug 01, 2010 7:31:36 Dragonborn is a race I really like in D&D4. I first discovered it in the 3rd edition with the Races of the Dragon sourcebook.

In the Forgotten Realms, Dragonborn have a particular history as they were brought on Toril from Abeir during the Spellplague when the two worlds collided.

In the FRPG (Forgotten Realms Player guide) there is this particular sentence about the dragonborn from Abeir : "Since Abeir was without divine influence, at least in a way that most people of Toril understand, dragonborn regard the gods and their servants with suspicion, for they have ever held themselves accountable for their own actions and never to the expectations of others, especially to some remote god or other."

What could the underlined part mean? As far as we know, Abeir was mainly under the iron fist of dragons but we also know historically that Abeir was created by Ao and given to the Primordials when the Primordials tried to destroy Toril.

Could Abeir be under the "divine" influence of Primordials rather than gods? Could there technically be an elemental power in place of the classical divine power source on Abeir?

I'm trying to understand how things work on Abeir since I intend to send a party of adventurers there for a few quests at high level in one of my campaigns.
#2
Diffan
Aug 01, 2010 15:49:48 The way I see it is that Toril's deities have little or no influence on Abier and with no followers or woshippers, can't really interact with the locals. That being said, I think the two main deities that would be prevailent on Abier would be Tiamat and Bahamut but its probbably on a limited scale that they exist.

Though I could easily see how Primal magic would be utilized more than divine if the people of Abier don't really know about deities and some such. And you can always give the Primordials some sense of power that manifets in a divine way.
#3
suin_bahhar_02
Aug 02, 2010 13:13:45 I think its interesting to set the dragonborn and genasi apart from regular fearunians in their view of the Torillian pantheon. The rigid martial culture of dragonborn is intriguing, and the wildly colorful genasi culture in Akanul strikes me as acool adventuring locale.

I guess the dragonborn would have a very strict and militaristic code of conduct they adhere, some form of bushido or a "Way of the Dragon Warrior" that provides them philosophical answers to their common lives questions. It would have been adhered for several centuries during their war for freedom on Abeir and could have arcane sayings and ritualistic protocol still harkening to their emergant rebel society.

The roles of priests could have been filled by Warlocks and Wizards, who temper with those outside forces that were available from Abeir, to gain an edge against their dragon oppressors. Marshals or Warlords were likely the centerpoints of Dragonborn strategies.

Some of the primordials on Abeir were able to gain divinity in their own right. Ishtisia, Grumbar Kossuth and Akadi all have worshippers on Fearun. The question is do you choose them to have those worshippers solely on Toril or do you allow Abeir a divine system in its own right, allowing the Elemental Lords to gain worship from Abeirans as well.

Their is no official answer to this so you might want to ask Ed over at Candlekeep, or Richard Baker in the Ask the Designers thread.
#4
vorghyrn
Aug 10, 2010 6:31:48 for practical reasons i feel that abeir need also deities.
D&D is full of divine influences and the divine power source is an important one. Considering that dragonborn make at least good paladin (so player may be interested in playing such character) i would feel strange to "cut" dragonborn from divinity (even when considering that PC are special character and that some dragonborn may have fill the rank of devotee in the course of the century after the spellplague) not to speak about a whole world (which contain also human, tieffeling, dwarf...).

so i suggest the following track as possible divine influences in Abeir :
- the first one would be Tiamat and bahamut, that are worshipped by dragons (some dragons at least) so it is logical that some of their (former) slave, worship them too
- the primordial which could clearly appear as god to mortals
- mortal may worship god a lower level. They may have gods for rain, sun, season, war etc... but this divinity may not be as powerful as faerunien ones because they have few followers and the dragons may not let mortal to build temple and powerfull clergy to divinities that may challenge their grip on this world one day.

those "lesser power" may be new gods or gods from faerun with other name.
the second case is my favorite option by adding the fact that they have the name of the PoL divinities in the player guide and they portefolio may be slightly altered in this world. they are weaker because of the lack of follower but they could also maintain some powerfull secret cult to keep an eye on sleeping primordial.

All of this may open some aberirian adventures.
To be honnest i'm planning to start a full abeir campagnain on such setting
#5
silve
Aug 18, 2010 15:00:39 from what I understand when Ao split Toril and Abeir he completely separated the Gods and Primordials. so there would be no divine influence in Abeir at all. soon after the splitting of the worlds the dragons rebelled against their primordial masters. the primordials then sealed themselves away under the mountains of Abeir. the dragons ruled for a very long time. it isn't clear how long. but the realm of Tymanther (which was Tymanchebar and came from what is now Returned Abeir) came from a place where the primordials never woke up again. it isn't clear about the primordial's role in the rest of Abeir but it is hinted at in a few places that they are more active in other places in Abeir.

in short there were no actual divinities for the dragonborn of Tymanchebar, not even primordials.

of course this doesn't stop any PC from deciding to make a dragonborn with a divine power source, but it does mean that the majority of dragonborn from Tymanther distrust the deities and their servants. it says so explicitly.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Acrilos Aug 01, 2010 7:31:36	Dragonborn is a race I really like in D&D4. I first discovered it in the 3rd edition with the Races of the Dragon sourcebook. In the Forgotten Realms, Dragonborn have a particular history as they were brought on Toril from Abeir during the Spellplague when the two worlds collided. In the FRPG (Forgotten Realms Player guide) there is this particular sentence about the dragonborn from Abeir : "Since Abeir was without divine influence, at least in a way that most people of Toril understand, dragonborn regard the gods and their servants with suspicion, for they have ever held themselves accountable for their own actions and never to the expectations of others, especially to some remote god or other." What could the underlined part mean? As far as we know, Abeir was mainly under the iron fist of dragons but we also know historically that Abeir was created by Ao and given to the Primordials when the Primordials tried to destroy Toril. Could Abeir be under the "divine" influence of Primordials rather than gods? Could there technically be an elemental power in place of the classical divine power source on Abeir? I'm trying to understand how things work on Abeir since I intend to send a party of adventurers there for a few quests at high level in one of my campaigns.
#2 Diffan Aug 01, 2010 15:49:48	The way I see it is that Toril's deities have little or no influence on Abier and with no followers or woshippers, can't really interact with the locals. That being said, I think the two main deities that would be prevailent on Abier would be Tiamat and Bahamut but its probbably on a limited scale that they exist. Though I could easily see how Primal magic would be utilized more than divine if the people of Abier don't really know about deities and some such. And you can always give the Primordials some sense of power that manifets in a divine way.
#3 suin_bahhar_02 Aug 02, 2010 13:13:45	I think its interesting to set the dragonborn and genasi apart from regular fearunians in their view of the Torillian pantheon. The rigid martial culture of dragonborn is intriguing, and the wildly colorful genasi culture in Akanul strikes me as acool adventuring locale. I guess the dragonborn would have a very strict and militaristic code of conduct they adhere, some form of bushido or a "Way of the Dragon Warrior" that provides them philosophical answers to their common lives questions. It would have been adhered for several centuries during their war for freedom on Abeir and could have arcane sayings and ritualistic protocol still harkening to their emergant rebel society. The roles of priests could have been filled by Warlocks and Wizards, who temper with those outside forces that were available from Abeir, to gain an edge against their dragon oppressors. Marshals or Warlords were likely the centerpoints of Dragonborn strategies. Some of the primordials on Abeir were able to gain divinity in their own right. Ishtisia, Grumbar Kossuth and Akadi all have worshippers on Fearun. The question is do you choose them to have those worshippers solely on Toril or do you allow Abeir a divine system in its own right, allowing the Elemental Lords to gain worship from Abeirans as well. Their is no official answer to this so you might want to ask Ed over at Candlekeep, or Richard Baker in the Ask the Designers thread.
#4 vorghyrn Aug 10, 2010 6:31:48	for practical reasons i feel that abeir need also deities. D&D is full of divine influences and the divine power source is an important one. Considering that dragonborn make at least good paladin (so player may be interested in playing such character) i would feel strange to "cut" dragonborn from divinity (even when considering that PC are special character and that some dragonborn may have fill the rank of devotee in the course of the century after the spellplague) not to speak about a whole world (which contain also human, tieffeling, dwarf...). so i suggest the following track as possible divine influences in Abeir : - the first one would be Tiamat and bahamut, that are worshipped by dragons (some dragons at least) so it is logical that some of their (former) slave, worship them too - the primordial which could clearly appear as god to mortals - mortal may worship god a lower level. They may have gods for rain, sun, season, war etc... but this divinity may not be as powerful as faerunien ones because they have few followers and the dragons may not let mortal to build temple and powerfull clergy to divinities that may challenge their grip on this world one day. those "lesser power" may be new gods or gods from faerun with other name. the second case is my favorite option by adding the fact that they have the name of the PoL divinities in the player guide and they portefolio may be slightly altered in this world. they are weaker because of the lack of follower but they could also maintain some powerfull secret cult to keep an eye on sleeping primordial. All of this may open some aberirian adventures. To be honnest i'm planning to start a full abeir campagnain on such setting
#5 silve Aug 18, 2010 15:00:39	from what I understand when Ao split Toril and Abeir he completely separated the Gods and Primordials. so there would be no divine influence in Abeir at all. soon after the splitting of the worlds the dragons rebelled against their primordial masters. the primordials then sealed themselves away under the mountains of Abeir. the dragons ruled for a very long time. it isn't clear how long. but the realm of Tymanther (which was Tymanchebar and came from what is now Returned Abeir) came from a place where the primordials never woke up again. it isn't clear about the primordial's role in the rest of Abeir but it is hinted at in a few places that they are more active in other places in Abeir. in short there were no actual divinities for the dragonborn of Tymanchebar, not even primordials. of course this doesn't stop any PC from deciding to make a dragonborn with a divine power source, but it does mean that the majority of dragonborn from Tymanther distrust the deities and their servants. it says so explicitly.