Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 darthsacul Aug 19, 2008 13:43:19	So im getting ready to head into the city (yes I know it sounds stupid but when you live in the country its what has to be done) and im thinking about picking up the new Realms book. But the big question is this, is Drizzt in the book? And if so in what regards? I know you cant give out TO much info because of copyright but im just curious if its going to be worth picking up.
#2 Iluvrien Aug 19, 2008 13:54:20	I too would like to know if it is worth picking up. Although my criterion for that is that Drizzt not be in it.
#3 darthsacul Aug 19, 2008 14:00:01	I dont know what people have against Drizzt, but here is the reason I have such affection towards the worlds most famous Drow. When 1st reading the Dark Elf trilogy, Drizzt was a refreashing take on the evil being that maybe isnt so evil. I havent read any of the newer books but iv read the DET half a dozen times and it amazes me each time. Now for the Forgotten Realms book Drizzt being in it isnt the ONLY criteria for me buying it, but it is one of bigger ones since he is the most famous character IN the realms (maybe Elminster...but im gonna stick with Drizzt)
#4 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 14:16:33	I dont know what people have against Drizzt, but here is the reason I have such affection towards the worlds most famous Drow. -This is why.
#5 18DELTA Aug 19, 2008 14:16:55	-I didn't see him in the book, so...he maybe in Returned Abeir! ;) -I liked it. (the FRCG that is) :D Only you can answer if you will like the book. 18DELTA
#6 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 14:18:50	-I didn't see him in the book... -That he is present in the prologue and epilogue of The Orc King demonstrates that he's still alive and about in his "usual haunts".
#7 Iluvrien Aug 19, 2008 14:48:33	I am holding off on a full answer of this until I actually see the book (hopefully tomorrow)... ...but what would really toast my toes would be if, after all of the characters I have enjoyed have either been killed or neutered on the basis of being "Uber" or having "too much material" written about them... the character who has, I think, had the most written about him and has seemed to be pretty much unkillable is the one to survive and make it into the FRCG. That would just make a nonsense of the whole thing for me.
#8 karazhan Aug 19, 2008 14:52:26	Well then I am sorry to say that you might be disappointed because they eliminated most of the good guys and removed 99% of the ones that did survive by giving them other tasks which keep them from interacting with others. However, the leadership of Myth Drannor is still quite active and the same as it was 100 years ago. I personally like much of the information. However, after reading there was no reason that so many changes, deaths, and retcons, were needed in order to validate the current realms. I also did not like the fact that so much new lore matches other settings (i.e. dragonlance and the dragon overlords, new magic because the god of magic died/vanished, etc.). However, this is just my opinion.
#9 ChrisTheS Aug 19, 2008 15:06:55	Drizzt is in the book... as a one-line mention in the entry on the Kingdom of Many-Arrows. He doesn't have stats, he's not referred to by his full name, and there is no mention whatsoever of his history. He is a footnote... as he should be, since he's hardly a household name even in the Silver Marches region.
#10 Iluvrien Aug 19, 2008 15:10:23	Well then I am sorry to say that you might be disappointed... Sadly, I was already fairly sure of this after questions to the early FRCG getters about the status of the Chosen et al. Drizzt is in the book... as a one-line mention in the entry on the Kingdom of Many-Arrows. Son of a motherless Trojan pig-dog... Him, not you ChrisTheS. Thanks for the information. Still, at least it was only one line.
#11 merrikcale Aug 19, 2008 15:20:27	-I liked it. (the FRCG that is) why?
#12 Aaron_Highcolor Aug 19, 2008 16:17:15	Because he did?:D
#13 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 17:28:49	why? -It is the reflection of the hard work he has put into his job, in turn, earning him money and satisfaction that the world is being made a better place, made corporal.
#14 18DELTA Aug 19, 2008 18:11:19	why? -Because I did. :D -Its different, its new. I liked some of the changes, some changes I didn't. To each his own. -Yes I will still play in the 3E Realms. When I finally run a 4E game it will be in the 4E Realms. 18DELTA ;)
#15 GreenKnight Aug 19, 2008 22:01:35	So what's the context of his mention in the kingdom of Many-Arrows? Are the orcs there fond of him, or do they hate his guts?
#16 ChrisTheS Aug 19, 2008 22:14:16	My bad, it's actually two lines (in the same paragraph, which is all about Obould - it doesn't say anything else about Drizzt except that he was allied with the dwarves, and he and Obould fought a duel).
#17 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 22:27:38	So what's the context of his mention in the kingdom of Many-Arrows? Are the orcs there fond of him, or do they hate his guts? My bad, it's actually two lines (in the same paragraph, which is all about Obould - it doesn't say anything else about Drizzt except that he was allied with the dwarves, and he and Obould fought a duel). -There's conflicting information on that matter, from The Orc King, and the Luruar excerpt. And, apparently, the FRCG doesn't clear the matter... -You know? This is a campaign guide. This is the type of information it's supposed to have.
#18 ChrisTheS Aug 19, 2008 22:32:37	What's the conflict? The only thing I notice out of joint is that there have apparently been as many Oboulds in a matter of decades than France had Louis' over the course of centuries.
#19 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 22:41:52	What's the conflict? The only thing I notice out of joint is that there have apparently been as many Oboulds in a matter of decades than France had Louis' over the course of centuries. -One says that they are one good terms with each other (Drizzt, the Orc Kingdom, and the Silver Marches [The Orc King]), and the other says that they are not (The Luruar excerpt).
#20 ChrisTheS Aug 19, 2008 22:46:00	Ah... and then the Many-Arrows section says that they've got an on-again-off-again relationship... Well, just call it that officially they aren't enemies, but in practice this isn't always the case... makes for more exciting stories, anyway.
#21 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 22:55:18	Ah... and then the Many-Arrows section says that they've got an on-again-off-again relationship... -Still doesn't jive. The Humans are hating the Orcs, currently, as per the excerpt, but as per the book, the Humans and Orc are getting along. This is the same time period that the two different sources are describing. -This wouldn't be the first time Salvatore has ignored/accidentally messed up lore, so I'm willing to say that the FRCG has it right, with the Humans hating the Orcs. But, still. This kinda stuff shouldn't happen.
#22 ChrisTheS Aug 19, 2008 23:01:39	Well, considering that The Orc King was sent to print several months before even the 4e core books were, let alone the campaign guide, it's probable that some changes were made at some point and weren't necessarily communicated to everyone. It does happen, and in a case like this, it's not really that much of a deal - a GM can just pick which version of events seems more interesting to them and run with it. The implications of the choice aren't likely to spread much beyond that region in any case, so it's only pertinent on an individual campaign level.
#23 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 23:03:30	-That it does or doesn't effect someone's home campaign is not the point. Continuity is the point. Officially, what is it? There can only be one. The rules of logic dictate that something cannot be X and not be X at the same time, and in this case, based on the two sources, this is exactly what is happening canonically.
#24 ChrisTheS Aug 19, 2008 23:15:36	Try considering the information in the book as a series of rumors that aren't substantiated until you actually encounter them in a game. This edition seems to have taken the principle of 'it ain't true 'til the GM says it is' to heart, which is all to the good from where I'm standing. Certainly helps with maintaining mystery.
#25 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 23:18:04	-Information in novels is canon. The only way around that would be when characters are talking about things they don't necessarily understand/know. In this case, however, that is not the case. The omniscient narrator shows scenes of Drizzt fighting for the Orcs, against Humans who would do them harm, and of Orcs preparing to marry into Human families from the area.
#26 ChrisTheS Aug 19, 2008 23:28:59	I've come to learn (from years on Doctor Who forums) that canon is what you make of it. Since the plethora of novel canon is one of the reasons they decided to shake up the setting in the first place, I would counsel against feeling bound by it.
#27 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 23:31:20	I've come to learn (from years on Doctor Who forums) that canon is what you make of it. Since the plethora of novel canon is one of the reasons they decided to shake up the setting in the first place, I would counsel against feeling bound by it. -I don't play D&D in the Forgotten Realms. I am purely interested in canon, as are plenty of other people here, hence the preoccupation on it's validity, or lack thereof.
#28 ChrisTheS Aug 19, 2008 23:34:47	Ah. Well, never mind, then. In your case I'd take whatever shows up in future novels as gospel and ignore anything contradictory in the setting book, since you'll be getting more exposure to the former
#29 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 23:36:24	Ah. Well, never mind, then. In your case I'd take whatever shows up in future novels as gospel and ignore anything contradictory in the setting book, since you'll be getting more exposure to the former -Both count equally, which is the crux of the "problem", in this case.
#30 ChrisTheS Aug 19, 2008 23:45:31	In a situation that's mutually contradictory, you can't have both count equally, as you've already pointed out. You have to decide which version of events you're going to regard as primary and which as secondary - and in the absence of any 100% definitive guide to canon, that decision falls strictly on a personal level. In Doctor Who fandom we can get away with situations like this due to the fact that it's a series about time travel which, by its very nature, inherently changes its own canon with each new story (this doesn't stop people from having flaming rows about Who canon, but the only rational conclusion that can come of any of those arguments is 'go for whatever floats your boat'). Now, most D&D settings don't have that kind of 'instant retcon' available as an in-universe explanation, but given that they're shared worlds with only minimal executive oversight, a certain degree of mental flexibility seems to be called for when it comes to continuity issues.
#31 lord_karsus Aug 21, 2008 22:54:52	In a situation that's mutually contradictory, you can't have both count equally, as you've already pointed out. -Unfortunately (in this case), officially, both count equally as much.