Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 faldal Jun 25, 2008 16:11:25	Has anyone noticed how most of the ranger exploits and a few of the fighter exploits are remarkably similar to techniques described (quite literally) in the books? sudden strike for the ranger is a good example. Having played our first 4e game last night and one PC being a ranger I soon found myself calling him Drizzt. I think most of the powers are based on archetypal abilities we expect from popular characters. However I also have noticed how well my ranger PC Nervin (die fantastiche) converts into 4e. Same as a few other PC's I have used. Biggest problem our group has is we love Oriental Adventures. Any ideas for the old martial arts races?
#2 pigknight Jun 25, 2008 17:38:25	At least there isn't a ranger power called "Double Thrust Low."
#3 thibb Jun 25, 2008 17:46:38	I didn't see the words 'skittered' or 'beleaguered' in the power descriptions, so I dunno.
#4 theanthrodm Jun 25, 2008 18:12:23	Drizzt is an iconic character from very popular setting, it's not surprising some of the rangers two-weapon fighting powers would mimic some of the maneuvers he's described a pulling off in the book.
#5 rexracerjr Jun 25, 2008 18:14:45	Drizzt Is the BEST. I would hope they copy off of him.
#6 voran Jun 25, 2008 18:28:39	We've got scimitar dance, so ya, I'm guessing Drizzt was an influence :P Given the High crit of a scimitar, if you haven't invested feats in having a bastard sword, I'd say its a weapon of choice for the TWF ranger.
#7 arderkrag Jun 25, 2008 18:50:59	Drizzt Is the BEST. I would hope they copy off of him. To each his own. I can't stand him. Mostly because the first ranger I played was a half-drow (before I ever heard of Tardboy) and I still get the "you mean like drizzt?" questions. I have a human Justicar as well and I don't get nearly the stupid questions when I play him.
#8 manion Jun 25, 2008 19:25:11	Mostly because the first ranger I played was a half-drow (before I ever heard of Tardboy) and I still get the "you mean like drizzt?" I hope you see the inherent flaw in this.
#9 AaronOfBarbaria Jun 25, 2008 19:34:04	Any ideas for the old martial arts races? Sorry for the tangent... but what is an example of a martial arts race? I hope you meant classes, in which case I have a few ideas that I am keeping entirely to myself until I see them in play at my table.
#10 That_Blasted_Somoflange Jun 25, 2008 21:01:43	Yep, Drizzt is a good example of a ranger with scimitar dance and the pathfinder paragon path. First thing I noticed with the ranger, I can't say that is a bad thing.
#11 centurion_cajun Jun 25, 2008 21:24:39	Drizzt has been around for twenty years now. Twelve years under 2nd Edition and eight under 3rd. He's pretty ingrained in the thinking of what a Ranger is.
#12 athzar Jun 25, 2008 23:31:18	The bugger is pretty iconic. Last time I checked, he's on the cover of the new 4e Campaign Setting . . . or perhaps it was the Player's Guide. I haven't read a Drizzt book for about three years now, but that's more from a lack of both money and time (and an overabundance of University reading) than a distaste for Drizzt. The only thing holding me back is that I don't remember where I left off.
#13 arderkrag Jun 25, 2008 23:53:15	I hope you see the inherent flaw in this. Of course I see the flaw in it. The flaw is not the point, the incessant stupid Drizzt questions and allusions are the point.
#14 centurion_cajun Jun 26, 2008 3:06:48	It's an interesting thing to look at the way the game has reacted to Drizzt. When he first appeared back in 1988 he was a fresh and new thing. Before that every Drow was the generic cackling mastermind behind just about everything bad that happened. Fast-forward through the next few years of him ending up on the New York Times Bestsellers list and suddenly everyone and their brother is playing a reformed Drow and there is even a God for them. Such is the curse of something being so popular that it has moved beyond the hobby that spawned it.
#15 That_Blasted_Somoflange Jun 26, 2008 6:42:20	It's an interesting thing to look at the way the game has reacted to Drizzt. When he first appeared back in 1988 he was a fresh and new thing. Before that every Drow was the generic cackling mastermind behind just about everything bad that happened. Fast-forward through the next few years of him ending up on the New York Times Bestsellers list and suddenly everyone and their brother is playing a reformed Drow and there is even a God for them. Such is the curse of something being so popular that it has moved beyond the hobby that spawned it. I agree, the Drizzt/good guy drow movement has taken a life of its own. While I have enjoyed the Drizzt novels, I do like the character, I would NEVER model a character off of him. When I play drow, it's because I want to be an evil schemer and thoroughly irredeemable. Or in 4e, unaligned and indifferent to the pain and suffering of others.
#16 Lord_Phobetor Jun 26, 2008 7:17:26	The punch line to this all is that Drizzt's TWF uberness wasn't originally a ranger thing, it was a drow thing. In 1st & 2nd Ed., all drow elves were two-weapon fighters.
#17 centurion_cajun Jun 26, 2008 7:26:41	Yes, but that was two editions ago. DnD is a much different game now. The game has adapted to his popularity. Heck, he's so prevalent he's even on the cover of the new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book.
#18 Kurama_Youko Jun 26, 2008 7:34:32	Not to mention Drizz't was trained as a Fighter primarily according to the dark elf trilogy. Also from what I was told whether it was Drizzt or maybe all dark elves, he was just innately stealthy and quick.. and that the 2nd edition rules best reflected this, I really can't wait to see (if they even do) how they stat him.. im thinking 21st lv Drow Ranger.
#19 altondelamourne Jun 26, 2008 8:09:37	Not to mention Drizz't was trained as a Fighter primarily according to the dark elf trilogy. Also from what I was told whether it was Drizzt or maybe all dark elves, he was just innately stealthy and quick.. and that the 2nd edition rules best reflected this, I really can't wait to see (if they even do) how they stat him.. im thinking 21st lv Drow Ranger. He was trained as a fighter in the underdark, but when he got out to the world he spent quite a bit of time training under the ranger (mooshi? was his nickname or something like that). Anyways, this is all just everything going full circle again. Forgotten Realms and Drizz't were both based heavily off D&D...now they're just borrowing a bit back. I'm also against Drizz't though...Personally, Artemis is my favorite character from forgotten realms, but I think that Salvatore retired him after the Road to the Patriarch or whatever that book was.
#20 _jayne_cobb_ Jun 26, 2008 8:35:07	Before that every Drow was the generic cackling mastermind behind just about everything bad that happened… …and now the Drow race consists entirely of Good-aligned outcasts rebelling against their evil heritage. ;)
#21 theanthrodm Jun 26, 2008 9:43:45	…and now the Drow race consists entirely of Good-aligned outcasts rebelling against their evil heritage. ;) This view is flawed mainly because for every good-aligned PC drow(PCs are the exception BTW) they're a million evil dark elves ready to kill the PCs.
#22 centurion_cajun Jun 26, 2008 9:43:51	That's an unfortunate side effect. The Order of the Stick even made light of that fact in amusing ways. I hope effort is made in 4E to show us once more that the Drow are unpleasant fellows.
#23 ogre4hire Jun 26, 2008 23:02:00	Personally, Artemis is my favorite character from forgotten realms, but I think that Salvatore retired him after the Road to the Patriarch or whatever that book was. Artemis was a victim of character assassination. And I don't see how anyone could possibly think that the 4E Ranger is based off Drizzt. There's absolutely nothing in the class description about giving angsty monologues about growing up in the Underdark or how because you're an elf it means that all your friends are going to get old and die and leave you all alone...
#24 arderkrag Jun 26, 2008 23:04:04	Artemis was a victim of character assassination. And I don't see how anyone could possibly think that the 4E Ranger is based off Drizzt. There's absolutely nothing in the class description about giving angsty monologues about growing up in the Underdark or how because you're an elf it means that all your friends are going to get old and die and leave you all alone... Or pining endlessly for Catti-Brie.
#25 athzar Jun 26, 2008 23:11:45	While Drizzt spawned a bunch of players being good drow rebelling against the evil, wasn't there an entire book series about a bunch of evil drow investigating Lolth's silence? I never read the last book, so I don't know if they all ended up good, but I'm pretty sure they were evil.
#26 ogre4hire Jun 26, 2008 23:23:32	While Drizzt spawned a bunch of players being good drow rebelling against the evil, wasn't there an entire book series about a bunch of evil drow investigating Lolth's silence? I never read the last book, so I don't know if they all ended up good, but I'm pretty sure they were evil. War of the Spider Queen. Started out interesting, rapidly lost steam. Basically ended with nothing changed except that the Demonweb Pits was no longer part of the Abyss, and, oh yeah, the one Drow chick turned good, decided to kill Lolth, then sort of realised that she was just a tad outmatched against a god and ended up as some sort of weird demon-spider-chick minion.
#27 centurion_cajun Jun 27, 2008 0:36:34	A Drider? And with the reworking of the Planes I wonder where Lolth ended up.
#28 athzar Jun 27, 2008 0:46:09	Yeah, I remember it started out as a lot of fun to read, but after either the fourth or fifth book I stopped following it. Now I sort of want to, maybe it's at my local library.
#29 thibb Jun 27, 2008 3:28:32	If all drow are good, then there is no dark heritage to rebel against . You'd think Human McAngus could waltz into Menzoberranzan and be greeted with silky-voiced hooded dark elves each simultaneously trying to repent.
#30 centurion_cajun Jun 27, 2008 6:53:06	Yes, but that isn't how it is in the fluff. The Drow are evil schemers. It's just that every one you meet is a rebel trying to repent for his race's evil actions. Once more I direct you to The Order of the Stick: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0044.html
#31 akodoreign Jun 27, 2008 9:06:57	Has anyone noticed how most of the ranger exploits and a few of the fighter exploits are remarkably similar to techniques described (quite literally) in the books? sudden strike for the ranger is a good example. Having played our first 4e game last night and one PC being a ranger I soon found myself calling him Drizzt. I think most of the powers are based on archetypal abilities we expect from popular characters. However I also have noticed how well my ranger PC Nervin (die fantastiche) converts into 4e. Same as a few other PC's I have used. Biggest problem our group has is we love Oriental Adventures. Any ideas for the old martial arts races? Sorry, haven't seen "Angst Ridden Emo" in any of the power descriptions;) . 2. ) Yeah play Legend of the five rings 3rd edition. Actually the 3rd edition L5r Books convert pretty easy into powers and skills for 4th edition.
#32 flaya-flav Jun 27, 2008 9:27:26	I ate Drizzt's brain had him reainmated into a zombie to serve my guest fruit punch. We renamed him twinkletoes, and have him in a little pink skirt. Word to you motha ~FF~
#33 GreenKnight Jun 27, 2008 9:51:09	The bugger is pretty iconic. Last time I checked, he's on the cover of the new 4e Campaign Setting . . . or perhaps it was the Player's Guide. Heck, he's so prevalent he's even on the cover of the new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book. That image is just a placeholder. These're the actual covers for the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide and Forgotten Realms Players Guide.
#34 akodoreign Jun 27, 2008 9:53:13	That image is just a placeholder. These're the actual covers for the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide and Forgotten Realms Players Guide. and that's from http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/dndacc/218287200 LOL, I need to read. SO it's a placeholder? oof, Wish they would put Elminster on it personally
#35 centurion_cajun Jun 27, 2008 10:19:06	Cool. Where did you find those images?
#36 athzar Jun 27, 2008 11:35:51	Damn, those are nice. No complaints here; I'm happy either way, although the "new" images are much more interesting.
#37 faldal Nov 07, 2008 13:16:08	Yeah that's all very good. I managed to inspire some madness. Anyone know how to do some oriental stuff?
#38 AttilatheNun Nov 07, 2008 18:59:57	Hey, GreenKnight, I don't see any images in your post. Did you delete them for some reason or is my computer not working right? (I can see the image in the post after yours.)