Drow and 1479 DR - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Drow and 1479 DR

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
godspeace21
Dec 02, 2009 19:40:09 This has probably been asked a hundred times, but I wanted to go ahead and ask again instead of looking all around for it. I am about to start running an online 4e FR game where I am tentatively allowing drow (as long as the backgrounds are good). I am wondering though, how are Drow perceived now amongst the normal "goodly" races? Are they still hated almost universally, or has the legend of Drizzt and the collapse of a huge part of the Underdark served to lighten the view? My party will be starting in Silverymoon going toward Many-Arrows to solve a bit of a mystery, so if I accept a drow, I want to make sure people are reacting realistically to his/her presence.
#2
The_Silversword
Dec 02, 2009 21:02:01
Thats really up to you and how you want to play it, but as i see it the evil Drow of the Underdark vastly outnumber good surface Drow, so people are still going to be a little freaked if they see one, until they actually got to know him/her. If theres just one Drow in the party, people probably wouldnt freak much over that, as opposed to a whole group of Drow, that would defiintely freak some people out!
#3
sfdragon
Dec 02, 2009 22:03:36 drizzt's fame imo would of gone down over the century outside of the silver marches.

as for how they would be treated, well Silversword has a point, one or two drow, could pass for not being a threat but a group and well kill on sight might end up applying or at the least being run off.
#4
keithp
Dec 03, 2009 20:30:54 There is a Drow character in my campaign. She gets reactions running from acceptance to uneasiness to outright hostility in Loudwater. Little children playing in the street stop playing when she goes past.
#5
greekgeorge
Dec 09, 2009 11:46:53 There was a good point in that Dragon article about Drow/Dark elves way back, after 4e began. How many people have seen a Drow? To us gamers, their appearance and description is well known, but to the common folk, they may be rumor and myth.

Also, thanks to 4e, there are now tons of "aliens" running around, like we're now into Farscape Forgotten Realms. I like 4e a lot, but if there are Dragonborn, tieflings, genasi, goliaths, deva, eladrin and such all running around, what's so weird about a black-skinned elf?

In my campaign, I have the remaining Drow (esp in Cormanthyr) hated, even if an elf or eladrin (all Tel'Quessir) has never met one. Like an inbred racial hatred. After all, elven myth says Corellon (Zeus) cursed ALL of them and drove them below the ground. So it's not racist to buy into what your whole race teaches and believes. For other races, maybe dwarves mostly hate them, but to everyone else...when have they ever seen a Drow? Heck, those demonic-looking tieflings are bad enough! In the surface world, I play them up as more distrusted, even hated, than a mysterious elven race few have ever seen (and lived to tell of it).

I also chose to run any Redeemed Drow as Eladrin or Elves, depending on the player's concept and background, but no one has asked to run one yet. It probably won't happen, but would be very cool if Dragon online one day introduces a "new" Forgotten Realms race for the drow "un-cursed".
#6
dannoe
Dec 13, 2009 6:01:13 We had a similar issue in my group when one of my characters decided to play a Goblin Shaman. Now granted, the campaign is primarily set in Luskan, so at least there, goblins were pretty mundane; the whole city's already been overrun by monsters, so goblins weren't particularly uncommon, even in the open streets. And at the time the Player made his character (as a replacement for someone who'd left the game), it made perfect sense. My Players had just conquered a local goblin tribe, with the Shaman then deciding to tag along in the future as the new trbie chief's spiritual advisor. It was all good...

... but then we set sail for the Slave Markets of Athkatla.

And in truth, I've no idea how it's going to play out because the players failed a skill challenge, accidentally wrecking their ship on a rocky atoll about 200 miles off the Sword Coast. But it's still an open issue. The party has a goblin in it, and (eventually) they'll get somewhere where that's gonna seems weird. In truth, I'm not sure how I'm gonna deal with it.

That said, I suppose there are really a few options:

1) Since my PCs are now 8th level and locally famous (as gladiators and successful slave traders), I could play it off that way, i.e. yeah, it's weird that they're hanging around with a smelly, grimy-looking goblin, but no one really ever mentions it because that's a good way to either get killed or shackled, depending on the local economics.

2) In CHA-based skill challenges, adjust the DC for the fact that there's a goblin (or a drow) present. If you're dealing with humans in a city, then use the Hard DC or give the party -2 to its "talking" checks. Meanwhile, if you're dealing with goblins, orcs, etc (which has been common in my game up to now), you might go the other way and give a bonus.

3) Do what I've done up to now, which is to set the campaign somewhere where the character's race is basically irrelevant. Like the Spine of the World or Luskan. Or the ruins of Neverwinter. Or Selgaunt. Really, there are a lot of choices and several FR cities that are large and cosmopolitan enough that civilized drow would be, well, not totally unheard of, anyway. I mean, Selgaunt has a whole community of gnolls. Surely they could have a few drow as well?

Does that help? I should mention, perhaps, that my PCs are an evil, black-hearted bunch. Freakin' sellswords...
#7
Nai_Calus
Dec 13, 2009 15:46:04

In my campaign, I have the remaining Drow (esp in Cormanthyr) hated, even if an elf or eladrin (all Tel'Quessir) has never met one. Like an inbred racial hatred. After all, elven myth says Corellon (Zeus) cursed ALL of them and drove them below the ground. So it's not racist to buy into what your whole race teaches and believes.

It was high magic with the assistance of the Seldarine, as I recall, not Corellon alone; Corellon has nothing to do with Zeus other than living on the same plane in 2e/3e core; and holy HELL read your last sentence again and go slap yourself repeatedly what the HECK.

Not too long ago the 'whole race' of people of European descent in the Americas taught and believed that everyone of African descent was... Yeah you know where I'm going with this.

Wow.

#8
Stoyrm
Dec 14, 2009 20:13:18 My thoughts on the subject would be that any drow on the surface will have a hard time wherever he is going unless it's close to Luskan or other outposts of ther world. A group of drow would be hunted down and tracked. Tried killed, or put on trial so they could defend themselves (if they're lucky).

A single drow in a party tho shunned in the beginning of entering a town. As long as he was surrounded by characters of an openly welcomed faith like say Mielikki or Moradin should not have much trouble. He would be looked at definitely, with suspicion. If the character stays in the region for a while doing good deeds it is likely they will turn their trust around after a while, but they would still be suspicious. Can't be to safe now can they ;).

It's all about appearances. If two drow where to enter a city, they would be under watch most of the time. Even in the Silver Marches (Luruar). But if your group is mainly good and he/she is the only drow i don't think they would have much trouble. People would only be suspicious. Some might even refuse to trade with your party but other than that i see no other problems, at least as long as someone vouches for him :P. Walking around with a party of 4 humans telling everyone that the drow is the devil himself incarnate wouldn't do them much good ;D

Other than that it's all up to you. But this is how i would portray it in my campaigns should i choose to do so : ).
#9
lord_karsus
Dec 15, 2009 22:34:23 -The new books have stated that Drow are not necessarily "shot on sight", so to speak, as they always have, but doesn't get into much detail as to why. Putting that aside for a moment, a hundred years or so have passed since 1,374 DR. Especially among the more longer-lived races, sentiments don't go from chilly to warm so easily- not within a hundred years (+/-), with no specific reason for change, so...
#10
Doombringer_of_Hoar
Dec 17, 2009 12:24:39 I'm sure reactions would vary. I know back in the day if we ran into some Drow, I would try to be friendly and start a conversations with them. They way I saw it if you saw the Drow, chances are they weren't out to kill you, if they were going to kill you, you wouldn't see them, until it was too late. And this was back when Drow were universally EVIL, back before Drizzt came onto the scene. I always did that with just about anything the DM threw at us though, I never understood that midset of what ever you run into, kill it and take it stuff. I remember one time the DM threw some orcs at as and I tried to reason with them. The Dm actually got all mad, yelling at me,"Dude they're freaking Orcs!" We actually got into an argument about that. The DM seemed to think that they were just mindless monsters, but I see orcs as being people too. They have an intelligence so it is possible to reason with them. Same thing with Drow.
#11
kaelenselunel
Feb 14, 2010 2:21:01 For my group, we haven't had an issue with drow players as of yet. My own character is one of the "redeemed" (an updated version of my 3.5 good-aligned drow character), and while I think it's been pretty much agreed upon that the redeemed dark elves are "elves" as far as stats go, I wound up using Eladrin for him simply because of what happened to him to transition him to the new era in the first place.
#12
vinciente
Feb 14, 2010 19:46:58 I would say, based on adventure Dale 1-1, that Drow are accepted as part of the surface world now as well. One of the 1st NPCs to interact with players, is a drow who is the club director for the Fall of Stars.
#13
yakman
Feb 18, 2010 13:50:35
-The new books have stated that Drow are not necessarily "shot on sight", so to speak, as they always have, but doesn't get into much detail as to why. Putting that aside for a moment, a hundred years or so have passed since 1,374 DR. Especially among the more longer-lived races, sentiments don't go from chilly to warm so easily- not within a hundred years (+/-), with no specific reason for change, so...

the way I would see this is that different groups have different reactions.

now, maybe in a big cosmopolitan city (baldur's gate or calimport) Drow are there, not really liked, generally shunned, and stick to their own. And maybe every so often, they end up with an arrow in their back. But it's not like there's a mob going after them for buying some bread.

and in a small town, or farming village... yeah, they don't get hassled by the humans. they've never seen a drow, don't really know what one is... but let's suppose that this little town has a forest next to it that has a little clan of elves. and those elves, they bring food in the winter or help fight off the raiders or whatever. and they say to the town elders, "part of the price of our help is that whenever you see a dark skinned elf in your town, you tell us."

so, the PCs come into a town, and maybe they find a place to stay. and maybe everything is okay for a day or two before they head out to battle the Spellscarred Spellslinger of the Slave Stele. But on the way through the woods... well... maybe things get a bit dicey.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 godspeace21 Dec 02, 2009 19:40:09	This has probably been asked a hundred times, but I wanted to go ahead and ask again instead of looking all around for it. I am about to start running an online 4e FR game where I am tentatively allowing drow (as long as the backgrounds are good). I am wondering though, how are Drow perceived now amongst the normal "goodly" races? Are they still hated almost universally, or has the legend of Drizzt and the collapse of a huge part of the Underdark served to lighten the view? My party will be starting in Silverymoon going toward Many-Arrows to solve a bit of a mystery, so if I accept a drow, I want to make sure people are reacting realistically to his/her presence.
#2 The_Silversword Dec 02, 2009 21:02:01	Thats really up to you and how you want to play it, but as i see it the evil Drow of the Underdark vastly outnumber good surface Drow, so people are still going to be a little freaked if they see one, until they actually got to know him/her. If theres just one Drow in the party, people probably wouldnt freak much over that, as opposed to a whole group of Drow, that would defiintely freak some people out!
#3 sfdragon Dec 02, 2009 22:03:36	drizzt's fame imo would of gone down over the century outside of the silver marches. as for how they would be treated, well Silversword has a point, one or two drow, could pass for not being a threat but a group and well kill on sight might end up applying or at the least being run off.
#4 keithp Dec 03, 2009 20:30:54	There is a Drow character in my campaign. She gets reactions running from acceptance to uneasiness to outright hostility in Loudwater. Little children playing in the street stop playing when she goes past.
#5 greekgeorge Dec 09, 2009 11:46:53	There was a good point in that Dragon article about Drow/Dark elves way back, after 4e began. How many people have seen a Drow? To us gamers, their appearance and description is well known, but to the common folk, they may be rumor and myth. Also, thanks to 4e, there are now tons of "aliens" running around, like we're now into Farscape Forgotten Realms. I like 4e a lot, but if there are Dragonborn, tieflings, genasi, goliaths, deva, eladrin and such all running around, what's so weird about a black-skinned elf? In my campaign, I have the remaining Drow (esp in Cormanthyr) hated, even if an elf or eladrin (all Tel'Quessir) has never met one. Like an inbred racial hatred. After all, elven myth says Corellon (Zeus) cursed ALL of them and drove them below the ground. So it's not racist to buy into what your whole race teaches and believes. For other races, maybe dwarves mostly hate them, but to everyone else...when have they ever seen a Drow? Heck, those demonic-looking tieflings are bad enough! In the surface world, I play them up as more distrusted, even hated, than a mysterious elven race few have ever seen (and lived to tell of it). I also chose to run any Redeemed Drow as Eladrin or Elves, depending on the player's concept and background, but no one has asked to run one yet. It probably won't happen, but would be very cool if Dragon online one day introduces a "new" Forgotten Realms race for the drow "un-cursed".
#6 dannoe Dec 13, 2009 6:01:13	We had a similar issue in my group when one of my characters decided to play a Goblin Shaman. Now granted, the campaign is primarily set in Luskan, so at least there, goblins were pretty mundane; the whole city's already been overrun by monsters, so goblins weren't particularly uncommon, even in the open streets. And at the time the Player made his character (as a replacement for someone who'd left the game), it made perfect sense. My Players had just conquered a local goblin tribe, with the Shaman then deciding to tag along in the future as the new trbie chief's spiritual advisor. It was all good... ... but then we set sail for the Slave Markets of Athkatla. And in truth, I've no idea how it's going to play out because the players failed a skill challenge, accidentally wrecking their ship on a rocky atoll about 200 miles off the Sword Coast. But it's still an open issue. The party has a goblin in it, and (eventually) they'll get somewhere where that's gonna seems weird. In truth, I'm not sure how I'm gonna deal with it. That said, I suppose there are really a few options: 1) Since my PCs are now 8th level and locally famous (as gladiators and successful slave traders), I could play it off that way, i.e. yeah, it's weird that they're hanging around with a smelly, grimy-looking goblin, but no one really ever mentions it because that's a good way to either get killed or shackled, depending on the local economics. 2) In CHA-based skill challenges, adjust the DC for the fact that there's a goblin (or a drow) present. If you're dealing with humans in a city, then use the Hard DC or give the party -2 to its "talking" checks. Meanwhile, if you're dealing with goblins, orcs, etc (which has been common in my game up to now), you might go the other way and give a bonus. 3) Do what I've done up to now, which is to set the campaign somewhere where the character's race is basically irrelevant. Like the Spine of the World or Luskan. Or the ruins of Neverwinter. Or Selgaunt. Really, there are a lot of choices and several FR cities that are large and cosmopolitan enough that civilized drow would be, well, not totally unheard of, anyway. I mean, Selgaunt has a whole community of gnolls. Surely they could have a few drow as well? Does that help? I should mention, perhaps, that my PCs are an evil, black-hearted bunch. Freakin' sellswords...
#7 Nai_Calus Dec 13, 2009 15:46:04	In my campaign, I have the remaining Drow (esp in Cormanthyr) hated, even if an elf or eladrin (all Tel'Quessir) has never met one. Like an inbred racial hatred. After all, elven myth says Corellon (Zeus) cursed ALL of them and drove them below the ground. So it's not racist to buy into what your whole race teaches and believes. It was high magic with the assistance of the Seldarine, as I recall, not Corellon alone; Corellon has nothing to do with Zeus other than living on the same plane in 2e/3e core; and holy HELL read your last sentence again and go slap yourself repeatedly what the HECK. Not too long ago the 'whole race' of people of European descent in the Americas taught and believed that everyone of African descent was... Yeah you know where I'm going with this. Wow.
#8 Stoyrm Dec 14, 2009 20:13:18	My thoughts on the subject would be that any drow on the surface will have a hard time wherever he is going unless it's close to Luskan or other outposts of ther world. A group of drow would be hunted down and tracked. Tried killed, or put on trial so they could defend themselves (if they're lucky). A single drow in a party tho shunned in the beginning of entering a town. As long as he was surrounded by characters of an openly welcomed faith like say Mielikki or Moradin should not have much trouble. He would be looked at definitely, with suspicion. If the character stays in the region for a while doing good deeds it is likely they will turn their trust around after a while, but they would still be suspicious. Can't be to safe now can they ;). It's all about appearances. If two drow where to enter a city, they would be under watch most of the time. Even in the Silver Marches (Luruar). But if your group is mainly good and he/she is the only drow i don't think they would have much trouble. People would only be suspicious. Some might even refuse to trade with your party but other than that i see no other problems, at least as long as someone vouches for him :P. Walking around with a party of 4 humans telling everyone that the drow is the devil himself incarnate wouldn't do them much good ;D Other than that it's all up to you. But this is how i would portray it in my campaigns should i choose to do so : ).
#9 lord_karsus Dec 15, 2009 22:34:23	-The new books have stated that Drow are not necessarily "shot on sight", so to speak, as they always have, but doesn't get into much detail as to why. Putting that aside for a moment, a hundred years or so have passed since 1,374 DR. Especially among the more longer-lived races, sentiments don't go from chilly to warm so easily- not within a hundred years (+/-), with no specific reason for change, so...
#10 Doombringer_of_Hoar Dec 17, 2009 12:24:39	I'm sure reactions would vary. I know back in the day if we ran into some Drow, I would try to be friendly and start a conversations with them. They way I saw it if you saw the Drow, chances are they weren't out to kill you, if they were going to kill you, you wouldn't see them, until it was too late. And this was back when Drow were universally EVIL, back before Drizzt came onto the scene. I always did that with just about anything the DM threw at us though, I never understood that midset of what ever you run into, kill it and take it stuff. I remember one time the DM threw some orcs at as and I tried to reason with them. The Dm actually got all mad, yelling at me,"Dude they're freaking Orcs!" We actually got into an argument about that. The DM seemed to think that they were just mindless monsters, but I see orcs as being people too. They have an intelligence so it is possible to reason with them. Same thing with Drow.
#11 kaelenselunel Feb 14, 2010 2:21:01	For my group, we haven't had an issue with drow players as of yet. My own character is one of the "redeemed" (an updated version of my 3.5 good-aligned drow character), and while I think it's been pretty much agreed upon that the redeemed dark elves are "elves" as far as stats go, I wound up using Eladrin for him simply because of what happened to him to transition him to the new era in the first place.
#12 vinciente Feb 14, 2010 19:46:58	I would say, based on adventure Dale 1-1, that Drow are accepted as part of the surface world now as well. One of the 1st NPCs to interact with players, is a drow who is the club director for the Fall of Stars.
#13 yakman Feb 18, 2010 13:50:35	-The new books have stated that Drow are not necessarily "shot on sight", so to speak, as they always have, but doesn't get into much detail as to why. Putting that aside for a moment, a hundred years or so have passed since 1,374 DR. Especially among the more longer-lived races, sentiments don't go from chilly to warm so easily- not within a hundred years (+/-), with no specific reason for change, so... the way I would see this is that different groups have different reactions. now, maybe in a big cosmopolitan city (baldur's gate or calimport) Drow are there, not really liked, generally shunned, and stick to their own. And maybe every so often, they end up with an arrow in their back. But it's not like there's a mob going after them for buying some bread. and in a small town, or farming village... yeah, they don't get hassled by the humans. they've never seen a drow, don't really know what one is... but let's suppose that this little town has a forest next to it that has a little clan of elves. and those elves, they bring food in the winter or help fight off the raiders or whatever. and they say to the town elders, "part of the price of our help is that whenever you see a dark skinned elf in your town, you tell us." so, the PCs come into a town, and maybe they find a place to stay. and maybe everything is okay for a day or two before they head out to battle the Spellscarred Spellslinger of the Slave Stele. But on the way through the woods... well... maybe things get a bit dicey.