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Drow and Slaves

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
keithp
Jan 31, 2009 20:38:41 My daughter, who has a Drow character in my Forgotten Realms campaign, asked me a question about slavery in Drow society that I don't know the answer to. Are slaves in Drow society owned by

1) Noble houses, or

2) Individual nobles, or

3) Pretty much any Drow.

Thanks.
#2
JudgeDookie
Jan 31, 2009 22:45:18 1 and 2.

There are drow that are pretty much slaves themselves, dealing with their own "ghettos" much like we do.
#3
Zireael
Feb 01, 2009 3:34:33 Well, commoners have almost nothing to themselves, so they can't have slaves.
Answer is 1 and 2. With one being most popular, only the powerful nobles can afford personal slaves. Think Halisstra and Danifae.
#4
leiril
Feb 01, 2009 4:49:12 In certain circumstances would 3 also be correct. The "official" institutions, like the local church of Lolth, temples and schools have also their own slaves. There are servants, like the cook, in Arach-Tinilith and I am sure they have similiar things in the temples itself (someone has to clean them, don't you think?). Then there are the slaves who clean the streets, mentioned in most novels in Menzo. I think these slaves are also something in "common property".
#5
aryanightingale
Feb 01, 2009 6:41:18 Option one and two are the most prevalent types of slaves, but I would not be surprised if the above explanation applied, as well. If you want a nice idea of the way slaves are spread out, look at Drow of the Underdark 3.5 and Vault of the Drow, 1st Edition. They have the most information on the types of slaves you would see in Drow Society, in my opinion.

The most common slaves would be humans and goblinoid types because the majority of slaves in drow society are just 'another pair of hands.' Drow want slaves that are worker types and will be fit for working for them, so this makes sense. Elves would be the least common because they are a favored sacrifice (as are any enemies of the drow), but on the rare occasion, they keep those around. The few elven slaves that are kept alive are used for torture exhibits or other graphic situations, situations that would make them wish they were sacrificed. Common sense tells me that the more valuable a slave, despite how they are generally viewed in drow society, the more likely they are to be treated better (though still very much maliciously).

Each city though will always deviate slightly from another city, this is just common sense. Drow society is Chaotic Evil. For instance, some places will enslave defeated drow houses while others will sacrifice them on the spot.

Regards,
AryaNightingale
#6
leiril
Feb 01, 2009 7:37:57
Each city though will always deviate slightly from another city, this is just common sense. Drow society is Chaotic Evil. For instance, some places will enslave defeated drow houses while others will sacrifice them on the spot.

That's for sure. For example in Sshamath most slaves are of "minor" races, goblinoids, monsters and such, because they are cheap and perfect for magical experiments. But if an individual shows a talent for magic, he is not considered as a slave. Maybe not as worthy as a drow, but he would be a free person and can walk between them easily, even if he is an elf.

Most other Drow cities are dominated through Lolthies and other Dark Seldarine, so they would be the normal way and an elf would most likely end as sacrifice or a slave for the fun of some noble drow.

Also a good impression on slaves are given in any novel with drow cities, especially the first chapters and stories with Liriel Baenre gave a good impression.There was this scene with the Hobogoblin-cook in Arach-Tinilith and I got the impression they treated her under the circumstances more or less well. Don't bite the hand wich feeds you, I assume.
#7
aryanightingale
Feb 01, 2009 8:06:32
Most other Drow cities are dominated through Lolthies and other Dark Seldarine, so they would be the normal way and an elf would most likely end as sacrifice or a slave for the fun of some noble drow.

That is pretty standard in Lolthite society. I would argue, though, that Vhaeraun's cities may likely give more freedoms to elves. At worse, elves are expected to be second-class citizens in these cities, or slaves if they are prisoners of war. It may not even surprise me to find that elves are equal with drow in some city-states if they worship Vhaeraun. In addition, Vhaeraunites normally do not make live sacrifices, usually keeping sacrifices to treasure (especially drow priestesses' regalia). Vhaeraun is somewhat an elven supremacist, though, and believes in the advancement of the Elven Race as a whole, with his worshipers on top. It is part of why I find him one of the more interesting members of the Dark Seldarine.

This is not to say individual Vhaeraunite settlements may not be harsher, but I gathered the impression that traditional Vhaeraunites do not have the "subjugate all elves" mindset that Lolthite drow do.

Either way, I think the general format for drow slavery applies to Vhaeraunite settlements, just with a difference in the typical slave demographics and how the slaves are treated.

Regards,
AryaNightingale
#8
old_sage
Feb 01, 2009 8:46:29 Both Drow of the Underdark and the Menzoberranzan boxed set cover the issue of slaves in drow cities and, to a lesser degree, the concept of slaving practices. Check out Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark and the 3e Underdark tomes as well for more on this.

As well, some of RAS's earlier drow novels and the first couple of books in the WotSQ series [especially Dissolution] provide some insights also.
#9
keithp
Feb 01, 2009 18:38:34 Thanks all. That was very helpful.

I ran across a copy of Homeland yesterday and have started reading it. I'll also look for the game materials that you've all mentioned.
#10
zanan
Feb 02, 2009 7:39:39 BTW, I would assume that the Old Sage was actually referring to Ed Greenwood's The Drow of the Underdark, not the 3,5E core sourcebook Drow of the Underdark. With regards to drow and slaves, Plot & Poison of Green Ronin does also have some interesting this to say about that. Nothing exactly FR relevant, but pretty close to the common perception of the drow.
#11
aryanightingale
Feb 02, 2009 9:27:33 Drow of the Underdark 2nd edition is a good classic, I will agree. They give the common tendencies of slavery and its role in drow society, as well. I had a copy of Plot and Poison, but for some reason I cannot seem to find it now. :-(

I just bought Drizzt Do'Urden's guide in PDF format. I agree that it is a good recommendation, as well.

Regards,
AryaNightingale
#12
lord_karsus
Feb 02, 2009 10:26:45 -Drow keep plenty of races as slaves too, to add something relevant that hasn't been mentioned. Some even have Aboleth slaves. That, I like. Kick them down a notch.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 keithp Jan 31, 2009 20:38:41	My daughter, who has a Drow character in my Forgotten Realms campaign, asked me a question about slavery in Drow society that I don't know the answer to. Are slaves in Drow society owned by 1) Noble houses, or 2) Individual nobles, or 3) Pretty much any Drow. Thanks.
#2 JudgeDookie Jan 31, 2009 22:45:18	1 and 2. There are drow that are pretty much slaves themselves, dealing with their own "ghettos" much like we do.
#3 Zireael Feb 01, 2009 3:34:33	Well, commoners have almost nothing to themselves, so they can't have slaves. Answer is 1 and 2. With one being most popular, only the powerful nobles can afford personal slaves. Think Halisstra and Danifae.
#4 leiril Feb 01, 2009 4:49:12	In certain circumstances would 3 also be correct. The "official" institutions, like the local church of Lolth, temples and schools have also their own slaves. There are servants, like the cook, in Arach-Tinilith and I am sure they have similiar things in the temples itself (someone has to clean them, don't you think?). Then there are the slaves who clean the streets, mentioned in most novels in Menzo. I think these slaves are also something in "common property".
#5 aryanightingale Feb 01, 2009 6:41:18	Option one and two are the most prevalent types of slaves, but I would not be surprised if the above explanation applied, as well. If you want a nice idea of the way slaves are spread out, look at Drow of the Underdark 3.5 and Vault of the Drow, 1st Edition. They have the most information on the types of slaves you would see in Drow Society, in my opinion. The most common slaves would be humans and goblinoid types because the majority of slaves in drow society are just 'another pair of hands.' Drow want slaves that are worker types and will be fit for working for them, so this makes sense. Elves would be the least common because they are a favored sacrifice (as are any enemies of the drow), but on the rare occasion, they keep those around. The few elven slaves that are kept alive are used for torture exhibits or other graphic situations, situations that would make them wish they were sacrificed. Common sense tells me that the more valuable a slave, despite how they are generally viewed in drow society, the more likely they are to be treated better (though still very much maliciously). Each city though will always deviate slightly from another city, this is just common sense. Drow society is Chaotic Evil. For instance, some places will enslave defeated drow houses while others will sacrifice them on the spot. Regards, AryaNightingale
#6 leiril Feb 01, 2009 7:37:57	Each city though will always deviate slightly from another city, this is just common sense. Drow society is Chaotic Evil. For instance, some places will enslave defeated drow houses while others will sacrifice them on the spot. That's for sure. For example in Sshamath most slaves are of "minor" races, goblinoids, monsters and such, because they are cheap and perfect for magical experiments. But if an individual shows a talent for magic, he is not considered as a slave. Maybe not as worthy as a drow, but he would be a free person and can walk between them easily, even if he is an elf. Most other Drow cities are dominated through Lolthies and other Dark Seldarine, so they would be the normal way and an elf would most likely end as sacrifice or a slave for the fun of some noble drow. Also a good impression on slaves are given in any novel with drow cities, especially the first chapters and stories with Liriel Baenre gave a good impression.There was this scene with the Hobogoblin-cook in Arach-Tinilith and I got the impression they treated her under the circumstances more or less well. Don't bite the hand wich feeds you, I assume.
#7 aryanightingale Feb 01, 2009 8:06:32	Most other Drow cities are dominated through Lolthies and other Dark Seldarine, so they would be the normal way and an elf would most likely end as sacrifice or a slave for the fun of some noble drow. That is pretty standard in Lolthite society. I would argue, though, that Vhaeraun's cities may likely give more freedoms to elves. At worse, elves are expected to be second-class citizens in these cities, or slaves if they are prisoners of war. It may not even surprise me to find that elves are equal with drow in some city-states if they worship Vhaeraun. In addition, Vhaeraunites normally do not make live sacrifices, usually keeping sacrifices to treasure (especially drow priestesses' regalia). Vhaeraun is somewhat an elven supremacist, though, and believes in the advancement of the Elven Race as a whole, with his worshipers on top. It is part of why I find him one of the more interesting members of the Dark Seldarine. This is not to say individual Vhaeraunite settlements may not be harsher, but I gathered the impression that traditional Vhaeraunites do not have the "subjugate all elves" mindset that Lolthite drow do. Either way, I think the general format for drow slavery applies to Vhaeraunite settlements, just with a difference in the typical slave demographics and how the slaves are treated. Regards, AryaNightingale
#8 old_sage Feb 01, 2009 8:46:29	Both Drow of the Underdark and the Menzoberranzan boxed set cover the issue of slaves in drow cities and, to a lesser degree, the concept of slaving practices. Check out Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark and the 3e Underdark tomes as well for more on this. As well, some of RAS's earlier drow novels and the first couple of books in the WotSQ series [especially Dissolution] provide some insights also.
#9 keithp Feb 01, 2009 18:38:34	Thanks all. That was very helpful. I ran across a copy of Homeland yesterday and have started reading it. I'll also look for the game materials that you've all mentioned.
#10 zanan Feb 02, 2009 7:39:39	BTW, I would assume that the Old Sage was actually referring to Ed Greenwood's The Drow of the Underdark, not the 3,5E core sourcebook Drow of the Underdark. With regards to drow and slaves, Plot & Poison of Green Ronin does also have some interesting this to say about that. Nothing exactly FR relevant, but pretty close to the common perception of the drow.
#11 aryanightingale Feb 02, 2009 9:27:33	Drow of the Underdark 2nd edition is a good classic, I will agree. They give the common tendencies of slavery and its role in drow society, as well. I had a copy of Plot and Poison, but for some reason I cannot seem to find it now. :-( I just bought Drizzt Do'Urden's guide in PDF format. I agree that it is a good recommendation, as well. Regards, AryaNightingale
#12 lord_karsus Feb 02, 2009 10:26:45	-Drow keep plenty of races as slaves too, to add something relevant that hasn't been mentioned. Some even have Aboleth slaves. That, I like. Kick them down a notch.