Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 marius4 Dec 04, 2009 8:31:31	Link to article: www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/d... As I began to read this, I wondered if it might be a fleshing out of the drow transformed in present-day FR.  Alas, there was no "in FR" sidebar.  Still...anyone have any thoughts or opinions on dusk elves as FR green elves (I believe)?
#2 18DELTA Dec 04, 2009 8:53:38	It could work. Heck why not. I checked out the thread about this topic at Enworld, and someone was already griping about having to many Elf races again.
#3 Nai_Calus Dec 04, 2009 11:22:55	People will always complain about anything elf-related, I've found. :| I don't have a DDi sub at the present so I can't look at the article to comment on it, I'm afaid. 18Delta, I approve of your new avatar.
#4 gomeztoo Dec 04, 2009 12:20:42	I woudl say no. Their history is different, and the dusk elf as described does not look like the transformed drow (they have near-white skin and hear, the dark elves have dark skin and hair). The Dusk Elf Stealth feat *may* be approriate for a dark elf, but not particulary. Gomez
#5 snackfordragons Dec 05, 2009 20:45:57	Perhaps the altered drow will be seen in the upcoming Winning Races: Drow article?
#6 marius4 Dec 05, 2009 21:22:09	Here's how the article begins (also posted on the article page): "At the dawn of creation, no difference between the eladrin and elves existed, and no wickedness sundered the drow from their light-dwelling kin.  They were one people, bound through common love and life, and united by the eagerness and curiosity for the natural world's many wonders.  All this ended during the dread wars between the Houses..." The fluff goes on to say that some of these early elves didn't take sides, were ridiculed by many but sequestered by Sehanine, and eventually became the very private and (as mentioned by Gomez) very pale dusk elves.  They are presented with several mechanical options involving shadow, concealment, and stealth, such as a PP feature granting darkvision and a racial feat called Gathering Night () that grants invisibility when taking total defense. The main things I'm looking at are the idea that they hail from the elven early days and are stealthy and shadowy.  For FR, the pale skin is easily handwaived (imo) and there is no need for the moon goddess's intervention.  The story would simply be the Sundering (if I'm getting my fake-history right) and the corruption of the drow, followed by a really loooong time and then the transformation of some of them back into FR-dusk-elves-which-are-called-dark-or-green-elves. Hmmm..I guess img I'd probably use these mechanics or the drow ones with Lolth-touched swapped for something else.  Those seem to be the best options I've come across so far. @Snack:  That's a possibility!  When is that piece due out?
#7 Nai_Calus Dec 05, 2009 22:57:01	Eilistraee sure didn't do them any favours in that case, since the dusk elf article is widely derided as having feats so underpowered nobody would want to take them. From the specifics I've heard I've got to agree.
#8 marius4 Dec 05, 2009 23:40:16	Eilistraee sure didn't do them any favours in that case, since the dusk elf article is widely derided as having feats so underpowered nobody would want to take them. From the specifics I've heard I've got to agree. Oh, I don't always notice or stop to look at rules balance.  What are the issues pointed out?  Or do you have a link?
#9 snackfordragons Dec 06, 2009 6:41:09	@Snack:  That's a possibility!  When is that piece due out?
#10 doc_dog Dec 07, 2009 13:35:09	sounds perfect to me.
#11 thelegend76 Dec 10, 2009 1:27:04	I've got a question and maybe I'm just completely stupid.  But what happened to the realms before 4e?  Did it never exsist?  Did all the **** that happened prior to the spellplague happen to someone else's campaign?  I guess I don't read or keep up enough with these topics, but it seems to me that somebody(s) at WOTC just got cut & paste happy and made up their own crap as they went along.  So now we have eladrin and elves, two distinct species that were not always that way from the feywild, and the drow were corrupted by Lloth, the one time consort of Corellan.  That stays the same, but now comes Dusk elves.  Elves that stayed nuetral and did not pick sides during the Crown Wars, or are the Crown Wars just swept under the rug.  You've got to kidding me with all this BS!  C'MON MAN!!!
#12 Nai_Calus Dec 10, 2009 6:34:39	Corellon. Not Corellan. Or... Well, see sig. And Dusk Elves are a core thing dealing with the core fluff. People were pondering using their mechanics for the 'redeemed dark elves' created in the Lady Penitent trilogy.
#13 lord_karsus Dec 15, 2009 17:47:43	-The link is not working for me, for whatever reason. What's the basic gist of the race?
#14 sfdragon Dec 15, 2009 18:18:09	nother elf race chosen  the people of sehanine racial feats supposed to be weak this was my overhearing  of this race. and by overhearing, I mean what other wrote about it.
#15 18DELTA Dec 15, 2009 20:19:48	-The link is not working for me, for whatever reason. What's the basic gist of the race? It's a Dragon#382 article...
#16 lord_karsus Dec 15, 2009 20:37:42	nother elf race chosen  the people of sehanine racial feats supposed to be weak this was my overhearing  of this race. and by overhearing, I mean what other wrote about it. -What makes them so...'dusky'?
#17 sfdragon Dec 15, 2009 20:48:27	being that my account  was for one month, and the fact I dont recall downloading that one before it went bye bye. I can say I dont know. there were some threads on it else where around here though. ( wanted the november one as it had Drizzt and shadowbane )
#18 The_Silversword Dec 15, 2009 21:17:45	Mechanically they are the same as elves, but they offer up different feats for them that focus on Stealth. Thats the jist of them, theyre Stealth Elves. Fluff wise, during the Crown Wars, they didnt pick a side and tried to stay out of it. I think its an interesting idea, but they could of dome alot more with it to make these elves more unique. As it is theyre just normal elves, with an emphasis on stealth.
#19 lord_karsus Dec 15, 2009 21:46:33	-Wow, sounds like a pretty...Well, actually, no. It doesn't sound pretty. They're billed as a race, or as a "path", or whatever, that your Elven character can take, with specific feats and skills and whatever to pick? What nation were they supposed to be from?
#20 The_Silversword Dec 15, 2009 21:56:16	-Wow, sounds like a pretty...Well, actually, no. It doesn't sound pretty. They're billed as a race, or as a "path", or whatever, that your Elven character can take, with specific feats and skills and whatever to pick? What nation were they supposed to be from? Yeah, they just got a selection of feats, 6 of them, and a Paragon Path. It says nothing about what nation they was from, just that back then Elf and Eldarin where all one race.
#21 lord_karsus Dec 15, 2009 22:04:45	-Which, in the Forgotten Realms, was never, so...Yeah, gotta be liberal with the application and adaptation of generic articles if you want them to fit, sure.
#22 Nai_Calus Dec 16, 2009 0:35:46	I'm not sure where you're getting the Crown Wars from, since it's core and not FR and the Crown Wars didn't happen in PoL-land. Basically they're emo elves that abandoned their fellows and pissed Corellon off so he doesn't like them anymore, but Sehanine likes them and they're her special little snowflakes. There's a background for coming from a family that got stuck in the abandonment despite not wanting to and have remained secret Corellon worshippers ever since(Worshiping Corellon is banned in dusk elf communities for no readily explicable reason and is grounds for exile). It's... Basically it's an entire race of Drizzts.
#23 sfdragon Dec 16, 2009 0:40:34	what!?! race of Drizzt?!?!  By the following Gods Mieliki, Bahamut, Helm,Torm, Selune, and Corellon( and a few more) not in my Realms
#24 The_Silversword Dec 16, 2009 0:52:11	I'm not sure where you're getting the Crown Wars from, since it's core and not FR and the Crown Wars didn't happen in PoL-land. You're right, after looking at that article again it doesnt say Crown Wars, In PoL land it was the Kin Wars. I guess that was a little Realmsian Slip there on my part. Yeah this article would really have to be reworked to really fit in the Realms, being as Sehanine has the Moon Elves (Eldarin) in the Realms. I could see some of it fitting for the Star Elves.
#25 18DELTA Dec 16, 2009 3:59:26	I'm not sure where you're getting the Crown Wars from, since it's core and not FR and the Crown Wars didn't happen in PoL-land. Basically they're emo elves that abandoned their fellows and pissed Corellon off so he doesn't like them anymore, but Sehanine likes them and they're her special little snowflakes. There's a background for coming from a family that got stuck in the abandonment despite not wanting to and have remained secret Corellon worshippers ever since(Worshiping Corellon is banned in dusk elf communities for no readily explicable reason and is grounds for exile). It's... Basically it's an entire race of Drizzts. Race of Drizzts.
#26 suin_bahhar_02 Dec 16, 2009 8:07:23	This new faction of elves dont strike me as problematic to introduce into FR if you like them. I bet they wouldn't be welcome on Evemeet though. As Silversword suggested they could be bystanders that didn't take sides during the crown wars. With Sehanines aid they got seperated by illusion and shadows from the worst atrocities, in dark forests that were more isolated from the full scale Crownwars. Perhaps she sheparded these elves as far away as Zakhara or Karatur. I personally dont like what I have learned about them so far though. Moon elves are already Sehanines favorites and are far more interesting to me (and work mechanicly better as regular eladrin).
#27 marius4 Dec 16, 2009 8:35:57	This new faction of elves dont strike me as problematic to introduce into FR if you like them. I bet they wouldn't be welcome on Evemeet though. As Silversword suggested they could be bystanders that didn't take sides during the crown wars. With Sehanines aid they got seperated by illusion and shadows from the worst atrocities, in dark forests that were more isolated from the full scale Crownwars. Perhaps she sheparded these elves as far away as Zakhara or Karatur. I personally dont like what I have learned about them so far though. Moon elves are already Sehanines favorites and are far more interesting to me (and work mechanicly better as regular eladrin). Just to clarify, I myself probably wouldn't add dusk elves to FR as simply a new faction of elves with the given history.  I might let any stealthy elf character take the feats, or I'd go all the way and have them be the altered drow.  That latter option was my main concern (and by extension I also was curious about what other options people use, though I'm sure that's covered to death elsewhere). Furthermore, if I did use dusk elf mechanics as the FR altered drow racial traits I would totally scrap the given history and religion stuff.  It's not that there's anything wrong with the PoL story, it's just that my goal would not be to "subtly meld the core fluff into FR lore."  It'd just be to give current FR fluff some mechanics...no tweaking of FR lore required! Hey, I just had a thought...What if the children born of the altered drow come out as the old type of drow!  Wouldn't that be some s**t?!