Discuss...
Once you get it please tell if it describes the things that Ed was part of and just skips over the rest while still moving along the canon timline or if it's about an alternate version of the realms with it's own bizarro timeline in which these events never happened.
Once you get it please tell if it describes the things that Ed was part of and just skips over the rest while still moving along the canon timline or if it's about an alternate version of the realms with it's own bizarro timeline in which these events never happened.
So far this isn't a pure "Ed's home campaign" book.
There's no alternate timeline. So far I've not discovered any "here's what's different in my [Ed's] campaign from Realms canon" bits.
Rather it's all Realms: every bit of it something you would expect to find in Ed's home game, save for a reference to Cyric (that I've heard is in the book, though I've not found it yet myself).
Ed talks about his campaign, how he runs it and what it is about the Realms that has made play last so long.
Some subheadings under the six main parts of the book include:
- realmspeak: talking the talk
- acting and the theater
- Cormyrean naming and trade laws
- the secret history of the Zhentarim
- regional cuisine
- food from the wild
- day jobs for adventurers
- trade and merchant princes
- Why put up with evil?
- temple income
- words of awakening
- spellsong
There are about twenty one hand drawn and/or typed up pages that comprise some of Ed's original submissions to TSR back in 1986. They have headers that read, "A SEVENTH LOOK AT THE FORGOTTEN REALMS/Ed Greenwood/Page 51 [this number being hand-written] of 205 [this number also] Pages.
Can you imagine getting a Realms packet of between 50 and 200 pages in length, on a weekly basis?
Jeff Grubb really had his hands full when he suggested TSR pick up the Realms, didn't he? ;)
...still busy reading...
What a shame I have to wait until November to buy it in Singapore. I hope I can get the PDF before then....
I'm really interested in the Secret History of the Zhentarim. I am hoping for Ed's answer as to why the beholders originally allied with Manshoon as this is one of the things that was never explained and which Ed cannot answer because of a long-standing NDA.
Because I gave them snacks and treated them to the movies.
This is definitely on my to-buy list. It seems like a really cool read.
The words of awakening have me intrigued, but they could be something disappointing.
Oh well, I'd expect more from the forum that volonterally gives spoilers about novels1.
1. I hope you all feel guilty!
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Is it working?
I personally thought the regional cooking stuff was wonderfully worth it just for flavor (pun intended). Same with the trade goods. And most of it really. There are a lot of bits in there that if you pay enough attention, it will enhance your games a hell of a lot. The only section I was actually disappointed with was The Art, which I thought was much too short, and long on agonizing dangles, but very short on in depth coverage of said dangles. That was doubly true of the epilogue... the man is a closet Loviatan, I swear!
Though the section on the gods and faiths was exceptional, particularly when it came to evil faiths and why goodly kingdoms tolerate their presence. It was a very refreshing read, and for me it was a bit of a surprise, since a lot of my interpretations of his previous lore was really close, especially the stuff that wasn't explicitly stated before.
As to the secret history of the Zhentarim, I'm not sure its so much a secret as it is coverage of Manshoon's reasonings, tactics, and strategies in his establishing the Zhentarim, and in leading it. It gives a lot of direct insight into the man. My only complaint, which is minor to say the least, is that it didn't go much into either Semmemon or Fzoul, and I don't actually recall either of them being mentioned more than once by name. At any rate, its a good look behind the closed doors about how they operate, and why they often come off as such fools, when they actually aren't. Well, the real ones anyway.
As I said, its a very good read, highly informative, and thankfully edition neutral for the most part. I heartily recommend it, with the caveat that DMs will find it far more useful than folk who don't get behind the screen, so to speak.
Very interesting Manshoony lore in it.
I'm rather a fan of Manshoon - points at profile picture - and particularly Ed's real version. Cool. I'm looking forward to this.
(snip) As to the secret history of the Zhentarim, I'm not sure its so much a secret as it is coverage of Manshoon's reasonings, tactics, and strategies in his establishing the Zhentarim, and in leading it. It gives a lot of direct insight into the man. (snip)
That's actually exactly what I am looking for and - just as importantly - I'm also looking for an explanation as to why the beholders supported Manshoon. The reason for the beholders' support has been hidden behind an NDA for a couple of decades and I want to run a campaign at some point before I die involving Manshoon, the Zhentarim and beholders (to a certain extent I have but I want to run something a bit more in-depth).
I'm rather a fan of Manshoon - points at profile picture - and particularly Ed's real version.
How has WotC changed Manshoon in such a way that makes you think of him as a "fake version"?
I'm rather a fan of Manshoon - points at profile picture - and particularly Ed's real version.
How has WotC changed Manshoon in such a way that makes you think of him as a "fake version"?
I am referring to various comments from Ed himself over at Candlekeep. Specifically, the WotC version of Manshoon - or, more particularly, the TSR version - wasn't allowed to be seen to be successful. Ed's version is far more of a threat.
That's all.
It used to be I had two Borders right near my house, and I could get my hands on the books immediately. But now...
And as much as I love the Manshoon/Zhentarim focus of the past few posts, I have to ask - would do people think of the other sections?
Seriously though, rather than keep repeating it, the book is really, really useful for DMs and there's quite a bit of good advice scattered throughout, especially on the sidebar captions. Yes, captions, usually not more than a sentence, but it's definitely food for thought. Overall though, as I've said, it's more useful to a DM, but I doubt anyone who was interested in Realmslore sheerly for its own sake would be disappointed with this book.
Life in the Realms (36 pages) was pretty damned informative I found. There was a lot of useful fleshing-out-the-scene lore for and plenty of stuff that you could extrapolate to be useful pretty much anywhere. I found his take on literacy in Cormyr, and the solid reasons behind it, as well as the effect it had on other things fascinating, and it helps to put the idea out there that a lot of things don't just happen without consequences to society in general, a point he drives home several times, though not annoyingly.
Laws and Orders (24 pages), where the Secret History of the Zhentarim appears, was all-around very solid stuff. A lot of food for thought for a lot of people I'd imagine, though not quite as much so as Life in the Realms. Probably the dryest section, I found, but YMMV, of course.
Hearth and Home (26 pages) was my second favorite section, and I found it incredibly useful for setting-the-scene and fleshing-out-the-story lore, which as a DM is the stuff I can never get enough of. There's a surprising amount of stuff to inspire in there, despite the seemingly pedestrian topics.
Money Matters (30 pages) was a section I honestly thought would be much drier than it actually was. As far as inspiring ideas for campaign arcs and storylines, it was pure gold, and while parts of it got a little dry, on the whole it was a good read.
Gods and Followers (46 pages) was my favorite section. The coverage of each deity of the core pantheon (pre-ToT, with a teeny little paragraph or two on Cyric) was very welcome, and was more like a gem mine for the useful information and lore in it. I honestly can't praise this section enough without sounding like I'm going to do a fanboi squeesplosion over it. The coverage of the secular goals of each faith (with a couple of exceptions) alone would have made the section awesome, everything else was just icing on the cake.
The Art (12 pages) was easily the most disappointing in its brevity, as I've mentioned before. Not that the lore was bad or anything, it was just way too brief in its coverage. Combined with the Afterword, it was a little maddening with all the mentions of so many interesting things and not really going into any detail (at all) over them. I guess my biggest issue is that it just left me wanting more, and more, and more, and more.
Well, that and there's some confusion as to who exactly the "real" Manshoon actually is in light of that whole Stasis Clone debacle... which oddly enough, is addressed rather ominously in the Secret History of the Zhentarim section.
Awesome.
That's really whetting my appetite for the book.
Thanks also for posting your longer mini-review above. I'm looking forward to this.
So, if I knew next to nothing about the realms, could I buy this book and run a solid FR campaign with it alone (no matter the version of D&D)?
In all honesty, probably not, as it lacks a lot of the basic information a campaign setting book has. Now if they question was could I run a solid FR campaign with the campaign setting book and this one, regarldess of the edition, I would unhesitatingly say that yes, you could.
I read the experts with great interest.
Im a big fan of manshoon and Im dming in the realms so its definately a must buy for me.
Cant wait for it to come to my country and grab it. 
Im also lovin the copies of Ed's original submissions to TSR, intersting, interesting stuff. Thay was orginally Ed's Oriental Adventures type area, who knew? I think im gonna have to use that when I get back to my game. Thay ninjas! Hell yeah!!
I hope to get started on collecting words from it soon. Also information on Cormyr to add to the Cormyr: Facts and Factoids page at Loremaster.org.
I'm still reading this book. I find that--like a Volo's Guide--I keep coming back to it for reference and idea generation.
I hope to get started on collecting words from it soon. Also information on Cormyr to add to the Cormyr: Facts and Factoids page at Loremaster.org.
Aye, same here! It's a great souce for inspiration! I'm hoping 5E's take on the Realms takes MANY notes on this book for a base setting book (This includes edition/era neutrality)
I think the book was excellent. It has many years since I bought a book from Wizards of the Coast (the last one was Grand History of the Realms). I loved all the content and the art of the book. Some illustrations are fantastic ... really capturing the essence, as the noble on page 51, some are nostalgic, like art on page 161 showing Lady of Strategy, the style reminds me of AD&D. I just did not like the tieflings (page 12) ... although the art is very good.
About the content of the text, fantastic!!!. As always with Ed Greenwood's books. I also thought the book would show Ed Greenwood's Originals-Realms, yet I am very satisfied with the text.
I would like the Wizards understand that it is kind book that we like to buy.
I am also in favor of a reboot in the Realms, or alternative timeline, because I do not like anything about the fourth edition of D & D. .. especially what happened to the Forgotten Realms. I did not even buy a product that edition.
I also think Forgotten Realms did not need statistics rules tied to any edition of D&D. It was enough just those old stats _ CG hm F9 ... for example _ as shown in Box Old Gray and Forgotten Realms Revised (2nd edition), or something that anyone can use their favorite system of rules, regardless of the edition.
Sorry my english!