I want to know who worked on this.
Will it be for all eras of play?
Oct 16th will be here before we know it...
Shiny!
I'm also hoping this is the next sign that WOTC is trying to undo the misguided damage done to the D&D during 4e.
If not, I love Golarion.
I think the biggest angst over the 4e Realms is just the huge 100-year hole in the middle after 3e. Hopefully this will help fill in that continuity for us!
"Ed has no idea how that title was chosen, nor can he confirm anything about that book. And yes, he knows saying that tells you he's involved with it...which is as far as he'll go right now."
"Next we have Elminster's Forgotten Realms in Quarter 4. We basically went to Ed and said hey, why don't you take all your campaign notes, all the information you've been putting together for your FR campaign and lets compile it into a book. Show us the realms as you've developed it in your campaign setting and lets get that to everybody. It's our celebration of the Forgotten Realms and pulling back the curtain to show you what the designer of the campaign setting has done."
So it looks like it will be an overview of his own FR home campaign. I suspect this will make a lot of people very happy as there's been a lot of requests for "What would Ed do?" with regards to the Realms.
Personally I'm most curious to see if/how Ed dealt with the Spellplague and all of the changes made in the 4e timeline.
There was a question and answer later on in the session that related to this book:
"Is Ed's Forgotten Realms edition neutral?
It focuses on his specific campaign, so his individual stories might mention mechanics from different editions, the stories and lore should apply to all editions."
It should make everyone happy. I'm predicting a best seller for WotC.
(These forums are very quiet...)
Excited about this book, looking forward to it very much.
(These forums are very quiet...)
yep...
Excited about this book, looking forward to it very much.
(These forums are very quiet...)
The Edition War(TM) IMO killed this place.
being told just to use the older books was slaps in the faces..... yawn.
it will pick up again when the ed greenwood presents Elminster's FR is released.
I hope......
it must pick up...... Lord Karsus must return...... his fan insight and knowledge of its lore was always educational to read....
It should make everyone happy.
Actually not me. If I buy a Realm product I want canon facts about the Realms, not someone's non-canon home-Realms. Even if that someone is Ed Greenwood.
And to me this doesn't bode well for the future of FR products. I really hope this is not a new trend of a lot of different Realms-canons.
Like Eric framed it: "One Canon, One Story, One Realms"
It should make everyone happy.
Actually not me. If I buy a Realm product I want canon facts about the Realms, not someone's non-canon home-Realms. Even if that someone is Ed Greenwood.And to me this doesn't bode well for the future of FR products. I really hope this is not a new trend of a lot of different Realms-canons.
Like Eric framed it: "One Canon, One Story, One Realms"
This.
If the book is just a fun one off, or a book that showcases how you can incorporate your own ideas into a cannonized world, etc, then I will be interested in it. If it establishes some kind of weird alternate realms, I have no use for it.
Maybe I am getting it wrong. Maybe it's a book with all the yet unpublished tibits from Ed that just fit anywhere. That would be great.
What I would have no interest in buying is a book that describes the status of the Realms from Ed's home campaign in 1393 (or whatever date he reached) and where the Time of Trouble never happened. That sort of alternate realty book I simply do not want and fear it may set a precedent for a course that would utterly disappiont me.
Such a position on WotC's part would alienate yet another portion of the fans and may not even bring back those who departed the setting. For the sake of a less hassle at the least, a drastic retcon or alternate Realms is not a good direction.
I think WotC realizes this, or never gave serious thought to such a "worst case scenario". I think this book will be a compilation of Ed's ideas or elaboration and spin on lore, which players and DMs can mine for their games of any era, right in line with WotC's stated intentions for 5E and the Realms.
I got the impression it was more insight into his campaign and the various bits of lore he's concocted for it, rather than an alternate reality version of the Realms at large. I'm not expecting some canon-trumping vindicating ret-con, so much as a look into the Realms through the eyes of the original creator. From the description I see it more as a DM resource to mine for ideas and lore, rather than as an alternate campaign setting in its own right. At least I hope that's how it turns out.
Some scribes at candlekeep have already fantasized that it will be a "Canon-trumping vindicating ret-con"...
When Ed decides to get involved with expanding Realms lore, it is always well worth it.
The material can be adapted to any edition or timeline you play.
I think it will be worth buying no matter what.
When Ed decides to get involved with expanding Realms lore, it is always well worth it.
The material can be adapted to any edition or timeline you play.
This.
What Stigger said too.
Can't wait to get my hands on this book!
besides... if you read and choose to retcon something at your table and like what they did at Ed's table or someone else's table than its a win win situation.
I got the impression it was more insight into his campaign and the various bits of lore he's concocted for it, rather than an alternate reality version of the Realms at large. I'm not expecting some canon-trumping vindicating ret-con, so much as a look into the Realms through the eyes of the original creator. From the description I see it more as a DM resource to mine for ideas and lore, rather than as an alternate campaign setting in its own right. At least I hope that's how it turns out.
Some scribes at candlekeep have already fantasized that it will be a "Canon-trumping vindicating ret-con"...
Sure, and I can say that D'r'i'z'z'i't's ( 
) going to being dual-weilding +6 Spaghetti Noodles of Awesomeness in 5e, but that doesn't make it true, if you take my meaning...
I want the eggshells of uberness +7
Very shiny... wonder if that's supposed to be Florin there.
Maybe it's Elminster. :D
But then, my favorite El book is Making of A Mage.
Good point... could be actually. Never know with the Old Goat.
Well, he was other things before he was a Mage after all, or even before he was the Old part of "Old Goat" ;). If memory serves, didn't he start out as a rogue in Athalantar?
I am glad that Mystra (Midnight) is gone as goddess she never was Goddess material especially when it came to the Goddess of Magic. I do believe that God of Magic is needed for the realms though. Elminister will make an excellant god of magic no.
In a different setting I'd love an evil god/goddess of magic, tempting the souls of magic users, etc. But not in the Realms.
She should have been, but she wasn't. Elminster wouldn't be any more neutral than she was. An altruistic adventurer's god? Absolutely! But not the god of magic, please.
All of them, Mystryl, Mystra, and Midnight have been neutral. Mystral was Chaotic Neutral, Mystra was Lawful Neutral, and Midnight was Neutral Good. A technicality, certainly, and a little pedantic, but I just thought I'd point it out...
lol Semantics! :D The first two were fine, but Midnight need an alignment change. Maybe to true neutral. :P
All of them, Mystryl, Mystra, and Midnight have been neutral. Mystral was Chaotic Neutral, Mystra was Lawful Neutral, and Midnight was Neutral Good. A technicality, certainly, and a little pedantic, but I just thought I'd point it out...
lol Semantics! :D The first two were fine, but Midnight need an alignment change. Maybe to true neutral. :P
Thus, we find the entrance of the Shadow Weave into FR lore. By its very existence, the need for a counter-balance was needed. Therefore, Midnight/Mystra was aligned as good.
My theory is that the Shadow Weave and Weave two aspects of the whole and one can't exist without the other. I never really played mage characters as DM I did read up on the magic of Toril and came up with this.
So I don't see any particular reason why any DM couldn't come up with the explanation that made most sense to them and going with that, considering how much the lore conflicts on that particular point. Not that they aren't free to do that anyway, no matter how concrete the lore is...
All of them, Mystryl, Mystra, and Midnight have been neutral. Mystral was Chaotic Neutral, Mystra was Lawful Neutral, and Midnight was Neutral Good. A technicality, certainly, and a little pedantic, but I just thought I'd point it out...
lol Semantics! :D The first two were fine, but Midnight need an alignment change. Maybe to true neutral. :P
Thus, we find the entrance of the Shadow Weave into FR lore. By its very existence, the need for a counter-balance was needed. Therefore, Midnight/Mystra was aligned as good.
My response to that train of thought is always the same.
No, it wasn't. That is, it wasn't needed. At the very least, Mystra becoming good wasn't needed.
A different, good aligned diety could have stepped up to the plate, while Mystra retained neutrality. This god of Good magic could have sponsored magic users who worked for the cause of good in the Realms, and opposed Shar and her Shadow Weave.
Likewise, a Neutral Mystra could simply have opposed the SW as an affront to the Weave and the natural order, while various gods of good opposed Shar, as always, and also users of the Shadow Weave...because it's evil. Not because it's evil magic, but because it's evil.
Shar and her Shadow Weave had plenty of built in opposition without ruining a perfectly good goddess.
Not a knock toward you, btw. Just my thoughts on that matter.
Depends on which explanation you choose to pay attention to. I seem to recall at least three that were somewhat different from each other... that the Shadow Weave was simply the shadow that the Weave cast on the world and had always been there... that Shar created it somehow, which I think is the most plausible, since if it was a part of the Weave, then Mystra should have had control and awareness of it from the word go... then I think there was something about some magical disaster or other creating it somehow, maybe Karsus or something. At least those are the three that I can remember offhand, though keep in mind I'm going purely off of memory here.
So I don't see any particular reason why any DM couldn't come up with the explanation that made most sense to them and going with that, considering how much the lore conflicts on that particular point. Not that they aren't free to do that anyway, no matter how concrete the lore is...
If my existence happens to cause the existence of something else, it does not logically follow that I will have control, or even awareness of that second thing. I might, but it is far from a guarantee.
I also just don't like/believe the idea of Shar creating....anything. To me, she is entropy. She can no more create than darkness can illuminate.
Just my 2 ravens.
As to it being "needed" to counterbalance the good Midnight/Mystra, I'd probably agree with that, though that could have been easily avoided if they hadn't pulled that crap at the end of the ToT. It was a pretty ham-fisted solution to a "problem" that didn't need to exist in the first place. A far easier solution would be to have Midnight subsumed by the essence of the last Mystra and leaving things pretty much unchanged except for a brief bump in the road in terms of alignment. At least that's what I would have done.
My point there was that if it was a part of the Weave, then its hers, given that she pretty much was the embodiment of the Weave. Not caused by, but a part of. That was hinted at a few times that I recall, then it got changed to something else, then something else again. They were never clear on what the nature of the Shadow Weave was exactly... probably because they pretty much lifted the idea from... Birthright I think it was.
As to it being "needed" to counterbalance the good Midnight/Mystra, I'd probably agree with that, though that could have been easily avoided if they hadn't pulled that crap at the end of the ToT. It was a pretty ham-fisted solution to a "problem" that didn't need to exist in the first place. A far easier solution would be to have Midnight subsumed by the essence of the last Mystra and leaving things pretty much unchanged except for a brief bump in the road in terms of alignment. At least that's what I would have done.
I would have had Mystra live, and Midnight become a demi-god in service to her, that focuses more on the goodly use of magic, than on magic itself. But I'd accept your solution.
And I still don't "buy" the shadow weave thing. Maybe the SW is part of the Weave Proper, maybes it's a seperated mirror image, maybe it's a...shadow, of it. But if it's a shadow of it, that doesn't necessarily mean that Mystra would be aware of it. Particularly if it is a shadow hiding in the Weave's shadow.
As to the nature of the Shadow Weave, like I said, it depends on which definition you pay attention to, gods know there have been plenty of them. Personally, its another one of those things I ignore the existance of, since I think its a stupid idea in the first place that flys in the face of my preferred thoughts and musings on magic. If it is literally a 'shadow' of the Weave, then yeah, Mystra has no influence over it whatsoever, or even knowledge unless she happens to notice it. The mirror-image thing... would really depend on how that happened, so I guess I'd say 'maybe yes, maybe no' to that one.
personally, I like the Shadow Weave. It appeals to me to have a dark shadow of the natural order, in magic.
If it works for you. Personally, I don't really see why its necessary, since my own personal views of magic is that its pretty much uncaring as to what you do with it, or why. It just is, and its the mortals who view it through their own ethical and moral perspectives are kinda deluding themselves in a lot of respects. Of course it can be flavored with invocations to certain sorts of beings, good and evil, but otherwise its uncaring and unconcerned with morality and ethics. But that's my own personal interpretation of it, and I'm firmly in the whatever works at your gaming table camp of gaming, so if you like it, I'll be the first to encourage you to use it.
I always figured that the shadow weave also worked differently than the normal weave. Otherwise, I'd probably pretend it didn't exist.
As to creating a debate Lunarbeam, I wouldn't really call it a debate so much as an exchange of perspectives on it. And food for thought is always good for gaming.
I am hoping for some novels on Fire giants, Titans and the Drow of Maerimydra