elven punishment.., could end up being banishment from a city....
elven punishment.., could end up being banishment from a city....
This. Depending on the 'level' of crime(s) committed, they would, at beast, be held for questioning and released with a levy and/or a warning.
Anything above petty crimes, though, and they could be banished. Murder and the like would/could/should involve a trial and/or honor duel. Both, potentially, costing them their lives and banished if they live.
okay, read what all the books say about elven attitudes, that they reply to abuse with disdain and violence in kind.
Are you kidding? They don't view anything other than elves as people. Slaughtering a character of another race won't bother them any more than felling a deer for their dinner, beyond the fact they don't get a meal out of it.
I do not know if this is the term of correctness in english but "death punishment" is not one thing I think fits.
Capital punishment.
What year does this take place in? Is this the "new" Myth Drannor?
Are you kidding? They don't view anything other than elves as people. Slaughtering a character of another race won't bother them any more than felling a deer for their dinner, beyond the fact they don't get a meal out of it.
That's not true of all, or even necessarily most, elves.
-The Code of Law for Myth Drannor is discussed in detail in Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves.
For example, the most grievous penalty for a Moon Elf would be imprisonment, while the most grievous penalty for a Moon Elf would be banishment.
Is one of them supposed to be a sun elf?
I wasn't planning to contribute here (since I think all Elves deserve to bne punished :P ), but I thought of one very severe punishment that would be ideally suited to an Elf who betrays his own people to humans -
He gets his ears 'rounded'. Seriously - some sort of priestly ritual in which the tips of his (or her) ears are seared-off magically, and CANNOT be grown-back by any means (its a way of 'marking' the individual for all other Elves to see).
The Elf becomes an outcast from Elven society from there after. I can definately see the Eldreth Veluthra doing this (although I don't know who'd supply the divine power if it is priestly in nature).
Sort of like 'Gelding' a male human, in a way (because as you say, thats a sensitive area).
Primitive (Wild/Wood/Grugach/Sylvan) Elves would proably just kill the guilty party out-right, but more 'civilized' Elves (Gold and Silver) may use something akin to this. Either way, this would be very much like death to an Elf who was raised and has lived in an Elven community his whole life.
In the novel fluff, when the elves enter their trance/meditation (I can't remember what that is called...) they enter a sort of 'union' where they can feel and be a part of the other elves if I remember correctly. I believe this was in one (or more) of Elaine Cunningham's series. Perhaps The Return of the Archwizards or perhaps the Halruaan trilogy.
Blocking that from an elf would be a terrible form of banishment. Otherwise they could still gain emotional comfort fromtheir 'trance' rest even if physically banished.
In the novel fluff, when the elves enter their trance/meditation (I can't remember what that is called...) they enter a sort of 'union' where they can feel and be a part of the other elves if I remember correctly.
One word, Drow.
Don't they enter the reverie? Or do they have to sleep, since they sided with Lolth during the Kinslayer and Crown Wars? And if they don't sleep, doesn't that mean that it's not possible to sever them from that part of their essential elvenness?
One word, Drow.
Don't they enter the reverie? Or do they have to sleep, since they sided with Lolth during the Kinslayer and Crown Wars? And if they don't sleep, doesn't that mean that it's not possible to sever them from that part of their essential elvenness?
-The Drow were cut off from mainstream Elvendom when they were "claimed" by Lolth and banished into the Underdark in -10,000 DR.
-The Drow were cut off from mainstream Elvendom when they were "claimed" by Lolth and banished into the Underdark in -10,000 DR.
Yeah, that's not so much an answer to my question.
If it was possible to sever an elf from his ability to commune via Reverie, do the Drow? If they were exiled from that one final bit of being an elf, then they would require sleep and wouldn't have innate bonuses against sleep effects.
This does not appear to have been lost because of the descent curse, or any subsequent "Blessing of Lolth" - it appears to be an evolutionary change.
Now, before we get into yet another "Created races do not evolve' argument, let me explain that in a way in which it does NOT pertain to genetics....
Reverie is part of what 'being an Elf' is all about. The enter a trance-like state and become 'one' with nature. The few huumans who have experienced something similar would refer to it as an "outer-body experience". Basically, their 'spirit' is released from their mortal shell temporarily, so that they can become one with their surroundings and the natural world. This 'refreshes' them, in the same way sleep does humans, and they need this as much as they need food, water, air, and sunlight.
Note that last part - Elves need sunlight - THAT is canon. Without it, they eventually perish (which is why Elves held in captivity do not last very long). I surmise that when Lolth 'Blessed' the Drow, she altered certain things so that they could function better in the Underdark, which would include a reliance on something other then sunlight (Faerzress?).
Reverie, on the other-hand, did NOT rely on sunlight, but rather just connecting to nature, or rather, the natural world around them. The connection is that Elves oft-times entered Reverie outdoors - even in cities, they would have couches just for this on their balconies (which means Elves are at least partially nocturnal, BTW). In that way, they could kill two stirges with one stone - they would get their 'daily requirement' of sunlight and reverie and be 'fully refresshed' and invigorated when done.
When the Drow first descended, they all still entered Reverie - both Lolth and Corellon neglected to adjust this with either the blessing or the curse. However, it was no longer a very pleasant experience for them. Becoming one with cold stone and dank caverns is something mopre akin to Dwarven nature, not Elven. Thus, Reverie became something one 'had to do', rather then something they enjoyed. Over time (many centuries), the Drow learned how to truly sleep as other races do, so as to avoid the unpleasantness of Reverie for them (although some may have still found solace in it, more and more did not).
Therefore, the Reverie is not something that has been genetically bred-out of Drow, but rather just a forgotten discipline (now that 'sleep' has been learned). Younger generations simply did not bother with it.
If a 4e Drow were to somehow get to the surface and be accepted by a surface community of Elves, it is entirely possible that the Reverie could be re-learned by them... even if their particular house/family/clan have not used it in hundreds of years.
Hope that answers your question.
Hmmmm....
I wasn't planning to contribute here (since I think all Elves deserve to bne punished :P ), but I thought of one very severe punishment that would be ideally suited to an Elf who betrays his own people to humans -
He gets his ears 'rounded'. Seriously - some sort of priestly ritual in which the tips of his (or her) ears are seared-off magically, and CANNOT be grown-back by any means (its a way of 'marking' the individual for all other Elves to see).
The Elf becomes an outcast from Elven society from there after. I can definately see the Eldreth Veluthra doing this (although I don't know who'd supply the divine power if it is priestly in nature).
That kinda reminds me of Jon Irenicus in BG2, who got punished by essentially being turned into a human (though it wasn't because he betrayed anyone to humans).
I like that explenation on the dormant ability of reverie in drow Markus. The reveries in the underdark being haunting makes the elven crusades to the underdark doubly dangerous.
So the reason elf cities have those high slender towers is for entering a reverie in a high vantage point and bathed in sunlight? Very nice aswell...
The withering of elves by lack of sunlight leads to assume that imprisonment in a sunless prison is nearly like a death sentance for an elf.
Note that last part - Elves need sunlight - THAT is canon. Without it, they eventually perish (which is why Elves held in captivity do not last very long). I surmise that when Lolth 'Blessed' the Drow, she altered certain things so that they could function better in the Underdark, which would include a reliance on something other then sunlight (Faerzress?).
Actually, the Epic spell that changed the drow caused them to be linked to Faerzress. It's what made them slink underground. When the LP books ended, the drow cast a spell that separated themselves from the Faerzress and that was what caused them to change back to surface elves/eladrin.
Actually, the Epic spell that changed the drow caused them to be linked to Faerzress. It's what made them slink underground. When the LP books ended, the drow cast a spell that separated themselves from the Faerzress and that was what caused them to change back to surface elves/eladrin.
-As per the Lady Penitent trilogy, the Drow were 'sealed in the Underdark' because of the Faerzress scattered across the lands that they internally felt compelled not to "wander too far away from". That does not discount MT's theories, however.
I was under the impression also that elves and eladrin don't require sunlight to survive, and that the withering from imprisonment was more tied to the psychological effects of the imprisonment (you can see this in RL humans even as the imprisonment can cause loss of appetite and lack of ambition/energy which causes the body to lose weight in very unhealthy ways).
As for crimes I'd think that banishment is a common one for any race (see Swordmage for a human banished from Myth Drannor for his crimes) for a variety of crimes. More severe crimes could carry a death penalty for non-residents or non-elf/non-eladrin and banishment or 'rounding' for elf/eladrin or other recognized residents. Minor crimes would likely involve compensation (to victim if any) and/or community service.
Drow as presented in 4e rules at least still have reverie (though for them and eladrin it is just called Trance, and the elf race doesn't have it).
-Being as that is not Forgotten Realms canon, Elves continue to have Reverie. Elves that would qualify as 'Elves' in the 4e D&D books (Wood Elves & "Wild Elves") enter into Reverie.
I was under the impression also that elves and eladrin don't require sunlight to survive, and that the withering from imprisonment was more tied to the psychological effects of the imprisonment (you can see this in RL humans even as the imprisonment can cause loss of appetite and lack of ambition/energy which causes the body to lose weight in very unhealthy ways).
-As per Ed Greenwood, yes, sunlight is indeed a "requirement" that Elves need to physically live and prosper. Almost like plants, Elves synthesize energy from sunlight (though, to a much smaller degree than plants, obviously, which rely on photosynthesis for their main production of energy). This is why Elves, when captured and imprisoned and such, fall into a "state of disarray" faster than certain other races- being isolated, along with being "shut out" from the things they need cause them to wither (again, like a plant).
-OP, do you have a specific race in mind, again? Because, like I said, it's really dependent on your subrace.
Edit; over 100 years, it seems.
In 500 DR, the elven noble and bladesinger Josidiah Starym embarked on a famous quest to retreve the Warblade from the Twisted Tower with a band of his adventuring friends but when he returned in 674 DR he had found the Artblade instead.[5] Josidiah bore the Artblade until his demise in 714 DR during the Weeping War and the fall of Myth Drannor, when the blade was consumed in a great magical attack by the Starym noble.
Crimes could be concieved that even elven communities and/or rulers would consider punishable by death (it's still a harsh and brutal world elves live in, so punishments would be reflective of that). Practising widescale destructive magic in sacred elven forests might cause them to plead for the end of the accused lives. Gating in demons, largescale necromantic rituals to create undead, experimenting on sentients or changing weather patterns make possible examples of crimes worthy of punishment by death by beheading with a longsword, a fussilade of arrows or drinking a lethal dose of poisoned wine or water.
These elders are at least 3 centuries old elves noted for their wisdom, so keep that in mind when roleplaying a final verdict for the party.