Well my question is in Elminster in Hell Negral saw a memory of Mirt meeting a woman named Nalitheen and they described her looking a lot like Elminster and I was wondering if that was Elminster or was it one of his many daughters or just someone Mirt met? I myself have always felt it was Elminster
From Ed:-
"Over his thousand-some years of lusty living, he’s [Elminster] sired quite a few offspring, though not nearly as many as he would have done if Mystra hadn’t been applying her silent “you’re one of my Chosen, and I don’t want you to father anyone just now, so here’s my birth control” powers so often."
Remember that Mystra has the final say on whether her Chosen can produce children.
From Ed:-
"Over his thousand-some years of lusty living, he’s [Elminster] sired quite a few offspring, though not nearly as many as he would have done if Mystra hadn’t been applying her silent “you’re one of my Chosen, and I don’t want you to father anyone just now, so here’s my birth control” powers so often."
Wow, just wow!
I am so glad that Ed finds the time to cover the most important details. I wonder if he has some notes on the size of Elminster's reproductive organ.
I am so glad that Ed finds the time to cover the most important details. I wonder if he has some notes on the size of Elminster's reproductive organ.
-In a world with Enlarge spells, and Illusions, nothing is for certain.
...or would that be giving Ed a bit too much credit? :P
-Of course not. These are the kinds of things that we (or, at least I) love about Ed being able to answer people's questions at Candlekeep. He builds around the edges that no one else is able, or willing, to. What's the term someone used, the other day? Cruft? Crift? Something to that effect...
Wow, just wow!
I am so glad that Ed finds the time to cover the most important details. I wonder if he has some notes on the size of Elminster's reproductive organ.
Ed answers the questions fans ask him. The statements you are referring to is one such answer.
Now, why don't you adopt a more respectful tone?
What's the term someone used, the other day? Cruft? Crift? Something to that effect...
Cruft.
Not that I agreed with that poster, dimonic, that adding new details is "cruft" (the word is negative in tone)....
Now, why don't you adopt a more respectful tone?
Respect is overrated. Especially towards semi-authorities.
Respect is overrated. Especially towards semi-authorities.
You come off as someone who really has an axe to grind, against someone who actually takes the time to answer people's questions about the setting he created.
Eberron players. :P
Respect is overrated. Especially towards semi-authorities.
You consider Ed, the creator of the Forgotten Realms world, a semi-authority? Would you care to explain how you conceived such nonsense?
Meh! just let him rant Old Sage, he'll leave soon enough.
There's a word for people like that -
Eberron players. :P
Maybe. Though I have no experience with Eberron whatsoever.
You consider Ed, the creator of the Forgotten Realms world, a semi-authority? Would you care to explain how you conceived such nonsense?
Gladly. Ed is the creator of the FR. That however doesn't mean that he is the sole shaper of the world. Many people worked on the FR since Ed created them. And I strongly dislike the attitude of the people who seem to think that he is some kind of demi-god who knows everything about the Realms. I bet he didn't know that Cyric was going to kill Mystra until the people who are in charge now told him. So everything he comes up with will probably be overwritten by some product later. Or not. I don't know, I don't care. He just isn't the only mover and shaker anymore. So stop bowing before him.
The point is that FR canon is what the FR products say. And that is not necessarily Ed's view anymore.
Most of his posts seem to be passive agressive, like he is just trying to provoke a response.
Meh! just let him rant Old Sage, he'll leave soon enough.
So everything he comes up with will probably be overwritten by some product later.
That is incorrect. Most of what Ed has already established through his replies over at Candlekeep is largely considered FR canon. There are acknowledged possibilities that a few choice tidbits could be overwritten during future development. However, the likelihood that those possibilities will actually be officially realised has now been severely reduced due, partly, to the defined setting time-jump to 1479 DR for 4e FR. Thus, it is now even more unlikely that most of what Ed has written previously through his replies at Candlekeep, will experience any degree of significant change in the future.
That is incorrect. Most of what Ed has already established through his replies over at Candlekeep is largely considered FR canon. There are acknowledged possibilities that a few choice tidbits could be overwritten during future development. However, the likelihood that those possibilities will actually be officially realised has now been severely reduced due, partly, to the defined setting time-jump to 1479 DR for 4e FR. Thus, it is now even more unlikely that most of what Ed has written previously through his replies at Candlekeep, will experience any degree of significant change in the future.
You know what, I haven't thought about it like that. This makes me like the time jump even more since I hate inconsistencies. Now everybody should be happy. If you like Ed's version: just play in the "old" Realms and you can safely assume that Ed is the authority on them. And you can play in the "new" Realms as well and consider the upcoming books to be the "authority". So everyone can be happy.
Although I imagine that it won't be easy to divide it like that, because Ed is contributing to the new FR Campaign Setting and will probably answer questions about the "new" Realms as well.
Cruft.
-Dimonic did indeed use it in a negative light. But, he's wrong. ;)
-Nah, me and Dimonic rarely see eye to eye, but I still have respect for him.
-As for this thread. Whoa...
Although I imagine that it won't be easy to divide it like that, because Ed is contributing to the new FR Campaign Setting and will probably answer questions about the "new" Realms as well.
While entirely possible, I really doubt it.
Ed was brought on board only because they were desperate to keep at least part of the existing fan base - he wasn't called in until the huge backlash of last year's Gencon announcement hit.
He isn't so much 'making 4e Realms', as he is allowing his name to be applied to it, just to keep customers somewhat happy.
Truth be told, they may be paying him for 50,000 words, but that doesn't mean Ed's 50,000 words will make it in. A lot winds up on 'the cutting room floor', and I can almost gaurantee 90% of THAT will come out of Ed's contributions. Do you really think the guys that have been working on the setting for 2 years will let THEIR stuff get cut? They will go for the 'superfluous' stuff first.
Sad to say, I think he is just their 'Token' FR oldtimer.
Anyhow, the new Realms are WotC's baby, and when asked directly, Ed said "I wouldn't play in it". The Old Realms were Ed's baby, so do you really think he will have any interest in creating stuff for 4e once he cashes that check?
And I really doubt that WotC would want him to - he had a deal before that his word IS canon - I doubt that even applies to 4e. It's a completely different setting.
In fact, aside from novels, this will probably be the last FR product you will see with Ed's name on.
And since Ed will probably only want to write novels in the old Realms, which WotC has already expressed disdain over, there may even be problems with him doing novels.
You know what, I haven't thought about it like that. This makes me like the time jump even more since I hate inconsistencies.
If you're suggesting that Ed's work, or his non-print-published work, has been later contradicted more, on average, than other Realms sources: the opposite is true.
Although I imagine that it won't be easy to divide it like that, because Ed is contributing to the new FR Campaign Setting and will probably answer questions about the "new" Realms as well.
Why would he discuss ongoing elements of the setting that aren't his any more than he does now? His current extraordinary service at Candlekeep is to answer questions about a world he's known intimately for 40 years and in part to make up for Wizards' failure to publish the gigantic Realmslore backlog. None of that will apply to the new world contrived by Wizards of the Coast.
Remember that Mystra has the final say on whether her Chosen can produce children.
From Ed:-
"Over his thousand-some years of lusty living, he’s [Elminster] sired quite a few offspring, though not nearly as many as he would have done if Mystra hadn’t been applying her silent “you’re one of my Chosen, and I don’t want you to father anyone just now, so here’s my birth control” powers so often."
Considerting how independant and self reliant all her chosen are, she sure seems to keep them on a tight leash.....
This thread depresses me....:raincloud
-It amazes me. ;)
While entirely possible, I really doubt it.
Ed was brought on board only because they were desperate to keep at least part of the existing fan base - he wasn't called in until the huge backlash of last year's Gencon announcemtent hit.
He isn't so much 'making 4e Realms', as he is allowing his name to be applied to it, just to keep customers somewhat happy.
Truth be told, they may be paying him for 50,000 words, but that doesn't mean Ed's 50,00 words will make it in. A lot winds up on 'the cutting room floor', and I can almost gaurantee 90% of THAT will come out of Ed's contributions. Do you really think the guys that have been working on the setting for 2 years will let THEIR stuff get cut? They will go for the 'superfluous' stuff first.
Sad to say, I think he is just their 'Token' FR oldtimer.
Anyhow, the new Realms are WotC's baby, and when asked directly, Ed said "I wouldn't play in it". The Old Realms were Ed's baby, so do you really think he will have any interest in creating stuff for 4e once he cashes that check?
And I really doubt that WotC would want him to - he had a deal before that his word IS canon - I doubt that even applies to 4e. It's a completely different setting.
In fact, aside from novels, this will probably be the last FR product you will see Ed's name on.
And since Ed will probably only want to write novels in the old Realms, which WotC has already expressed disdain over, there may even be problems with him doing novels.
Wow. This depresses me too and I am not even a fan of Ed's novels. But he deserves credit for what he has created and the amount of work he invested in the setting. This is sad.
Why would he discuss ongoing elements of the setting that aren't his any more than he does now? His current extraordinary service at Candlekeep is to answer questions about a world he's known intimately for 40 years and in part to make up for Wizards' failure to publish the gigantic Realmslore backlog. None of that will apply to the new world contrived by Wizards of the Coast.
Do you think that we will practically have two Forgotten Realms after the 4th Edition FR Campaign Setting?
Do you think that we will practically have two Forgotten Realms after the 4th Edition FR Campaign Setting?
I'm sure we will.
This is a much bigger shift than just the timeline gap and the reshaping and the events. For 20 years the published Realms has had a consistent core set of dynamics and design principles. There was some bad (inauthentic) Realms work that ignored them, but little consistent deviation from them except the RSEs, which DMs can ignore or moderate. The published works always returned to those dynamics and principles, in Ed's, Steven's, Eric's, George's, and (by and large) Rich's continuing work.
Now there's a whole new set of design principles, determined by external factors like 4E compliance and ease for new designers, response to the largely uninformed criticisms of people who don't use the setting, and Bruce and Rich's personal likes. I understand the current Realms well and can guess how things work quite accurately. I won't be able to with the new setting -- this is a deliberate levelling to make newcomers feel they're on a par with veterans. I don't expect I'll have the enthusiasm to buy all the new sourcebooks and novels and internalize them as I have the existing Realms. Lots are in the same boat: I don't know how many in comparison to other groups, but whether the new Realms flops or eclipses the old, there'll be two settings that work in different ways and will be played in and in large part read about and discussed separately.
Mark, while I think Ed is indeed being used somewhat tokenistically, he is doing more sourcebook and fiction work for the new setting.
I'm sure we will.
-There will only be one with official (as in WotC) support, unfortunatley...
At least for a while.
-Whenever asked, Rich Baker seems especially adamant that the current incarnation of the Forgotten Realms, as opposed to the 4e Forgotten Realms, will recieve no support in the future. Now, I am sure that the Forgotten Realms we are familiar with will be visited in adventures, sourcebooks and novels, via flashbacks and such, but they will be written through a "4e viewpoint". In my mind, that's a subtle difference, but I am sure you, among others, will understand what I mean by that.
By the way, what's up with the language censorship here?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFr6P2BtE3k
By the way, what's up with the language censorship here?
-It's a family site? That certain words are filtered, such as the one you used, or a few proper medical terms, or a few other nouns, that have perfectly normal meanings, is silly, though.
Anyhow, the new Realms are WotC's baby, and when asked directly, Ed said "I wouldn't play in it".
No [censored]! Thats very damning to say the least.
You know its not to late, I got this killer retcon idea! If FR 4e bombs, they can just go back to 1384 and have Elmister roll out of bed in a cold sweat and think "Damn, next time I shouldn't burn that stuff in my pipe!"
I wonder how much of a direct hand Hasbro has in all of this and how much thier "marketing research" has driven the direction of FR and 4e in general.
No [censored]! Thats very damning to say the least.
-Yes, read his response at Candlekeep, concerning the 4e Realms, which was written a few months ago. Basically, while Ed Greenwood did not directly condemn the changes, as he put on his "business face", if you read between the lines, he says a lot.
I wonder how much of a direct hand Hasbro has in all of this and how much thier "marketing research" has driven the direction of FR and 4e in general.
-Very little, I am sure. Hasbro has always had a very 'hands off' approach to WotC, allowing them to retain much of their independence and soverignty. On a slightly related note, why does everyone see Hasbro as some kind of evil entity? Did they do something, at some point?
Ed has an interview at YouTube where he talks about 4ED in a positive manner...he said he was playing it {at the Con} but it would be a while before he was up and running to DM it.
Take it for what it's worth...I'll see if I can find the interview for you Lord Karsus.
The interview was by GamerZer0 and is titled GMZ-Ed Greenwood interview. It lasts 7:42.
My internet-fu is weak and does not do links well...sorry.
All I know about Hasbro is that one of my players says that he thinks of them as a toy focussed version of Walmart.
-Walmart, I don't know (I've gone in one once, against my will), but I don't understand why so many people seem to think that they are bad for D&D in general.
-Walmart, I don't know (I've gone in one once, against my will), but I don't understand why so many people seem to think that they are bad for D&D in general.
Maybe because they are associated with making toys for young children? The implication, I'm thinking, is that a company that focuses on young children will--on purpose or by accident--dumb down D&D to bring it closer in line with their other products (not saying I agree with that, but that's the "vibe" I've gotten from certain anti-Hasbro posts I've seen).
Maybe because they are associated with making toys for young children? The implication, I'm thinking, is that a company that focuses on young children will--on purpose or by accident--dumb down D&D to bring it closer in line with their other products (not saying I agree with that, but that's the "vibe" I've gotten from certain anti-Hasbro posts I've seen).
-That's...Well...Irrational. Silly, to say the least. As I said before, Hasbro, since aquiring WotC, has had a 'hands off' approach concerning WotC, allowing them to retain much of their independence and soverignty to do what they want. I wonder if the various Anti-Hasbro personas out there realize this. Probably not.
Who do you think he's fighting those battles with? His fellow WotC cronies?
I'm sure it all comes down to some bean-counters with pretty colored pie-charts at corporate meetings. They may be 'hands off', but that doesn't mean they don't have their watchdogs set and ready to pounce. ;)
However, Rich Baker has gone as far to say (after being goaded by me) that he has had to fight some tough battles for D&D and FR.
-Maybe he was fighting to have his name kept off the cover? :P
Who do you think he's fighting those battles with? His fellow WotC cronies?
-Rich Baker vs. Chris Perkins vs. Brude Cordell vs. Chris Sims, with special guest referee Ed Greenwood, this Sunday at WotCmania!!
-That's...Well...Irrational. Silly, to say the least. As I said before, Hasbro, since aquiring WotC, has had a 'hands off' approach concerning WotC, allowing them to retain much of their independence and soverignty to do what they want. I wonder if the various Anti-Hasbro personas out there realize this. Probably not.
Well, you know, a lot of people are distrustful of big companies in general (whether that distrust is substantiated by evidence or not).
So... yeah, its the Hippies fault that the Realms is being destroyed. :D
-Hippies (and, truthfully, by proxy, the 1960s) are to blame for almost every problem we have today. They're easy targets, anyway.
We most definitely are not to blame for all the...the.... I'm sorry, what were we talking about?
We most definitely are not to blame for all the...the.... I'm sorry, what were we talking about?
-Red Herrings.
-Red Herrings.
Yum. I love Herring.:D
KtM made great Herring.
KtM made great Herring.
-Being as where he was, that is definitley quite possible.
-Hippies (and, truthfully, by proxy, the 1960s) are to blame for almost every problem we have today. They're easy targets, anyway.
Sorry, did you actually mean the first sentence or is my sarcasm filter off-line today?
Sorry, did you actually mean the first sentence or is my sarcasm filter off-line today?
-What do you think?
-That said, they (and the time) aren't to blame for most problems we have today, but a whole lot of them.
Seriously, though, I think the 60's had their good sides and their bad ones, but the good ones were more important. Maybe it's just me being an optimist, for once ;)
Which of course comes full circle in the Realms, since the1360's and 1370's proved to be such a crap period for the Realms at large... ;)
Which version? The crappy top 40 stuff, or new wave, or what? :P :D
Uh, both?
A lot of 80s music. Those are the years I grew up, so I listen to that music with nostalgia!Weren't you born at the tail end there youngin? :P ;)
I was born in 1981.
Only 9 years younger... not that bad then. Still a mere babe though... :P :D
Indeed.:D
Hmm, I guess that awful music bands started around that time... but I always blamed it more on the 1980s.
-The 60's? No, some of the best music (not including jazz and classical, and instead, more mainstream music) was written during this time period. The bad music came from the 70s/80s timeframe. And, of course, today's music...
Seriously, though, I think the 60's had their good sides and their bad ones, but the good ones were more important. Maybe it's just me being an optimist, for once ;)
-Well, of course plenty of the things that happened during these turbulent times were good. But, at the same time, the direct consequences of some of these things, and the byproducts thereof, though, are to blame for many of the problems we have now.
Guys, I love 80s music.
-I'm so sorry...
Can't stand most music from the 60's... but, to each their own. ;)
-Well, look at you. It's no wonder.
-I'm so sorry...
*laughs* I have ecletic tastes, indeed.
Indeed... very little wonder in why the music of the 60's was so crap. 70's were worse though... by a wide, wide, wide margin...
I love music from the 70s, too.
*laughs* I have ecletic tastes, indeed.
-Eclectic is fine. What you said- at least in my mind- implied that you like all music that is termed '80s'. That's not...yeah...Eclectic- again, in my mind- implies that you don't like one specific genre over any others, and that you like the occasional 80s song, the occasional disco song, the occasional rap song, the occasional heavy rock song, the occasional ska song, and so on.
-That, I can agree with, as it mirrors my own tastes. My iPod is a mish-mosh of musical genres.
I think it stems from the fear that Hasbro doesn't get "D&D" and on the surface, to me, it feels like a Hasbro bigwig picked up a phone and told the D&D staff, "Hey, this brand has got to bring value to Hasbro, and our research has concluded that Tolkien is out and Rowling is in, so we've got a few ideas on how to make D&D better...blah...bitty...blah...blah...blah"
Funny statement there, as, according to the numbers, the Lord of the Rings movies were more successful than the Harry Potter movies, and I'm not even talking about Oscars either
Indeed... very little wonder in why the music of the 60's was so crap. 70's were worse though... by a wide, wide, wide margin...
Hey! Disco was fun!
80s Music was fun!
90s Music was OK
Modern Music is meh
Hey! Disco was fun!
80s Music was fun!
90s Music was OK
Modern Music is meh
-Fun =/= Good.
-The Chicken Dance is a fun song. Is it a good song? ;)
-Eclectic is fine. What you said- at least in my mind- implied that you like all music that is termed '80s'. That's not...yeah...Eclectic- again, in my mind- implies that you don't like one specific genre over any others, and that you like the occasional 80s song, the occasional disco song, the occasional rap song, the occasional heavy rock song, the occasional ska song, and so on.
-That, I can agree with, as it mirrors my own tastes. My iPod is a mish-mosh of musical genres.
The occasional disco song? I love TONS of disco songs!:P
Anyway, yeah, I see your point.
Much like you, I love a mish-mash of songs, and I definately don't love all music that was recorded in the 80s. But when I think "80s music", I do think fond thoughts.The occasional disco song? I love TONS of disco songs!:P
-Even a ton can be occasional, when even more weight is present.
-Very philosophical.
-Even a ton can be occasional, when even more weight is present.
-Very philosophical.
I really like disco, though, and I'm almost always in the mood for it.
Funny statement there, as, according to the numbers, the Lord of the Rings movies were more successful than the Harry Potter movies, and I'm not even talking about Oscars either
Heh, at this point it just feels that way, while I suppose 3rd Ed was never meant to feel gritty (as opposed to 4th Eds points of light) with some of the articles in Design & Development it just seems to come off less like LotR and more like Harry Potter.
The 90's - meh
Anything after 2000 isn't really music. :P
I was born in 1981.
I was class of '81. :D
Graduated early though... hung out quite a bit in Jersey back then, at my cousin's house...
2000's have been incredibly good for Goth... not much else though.
90's weren't bad for Goth either though... some alternative stuff was semi-decent.
And the 60's stuff still sucks. :P
:D
What the heck is trucker music, though? Can you give some examples?
Trucker music... awful. Its something your young ears should avoid, so no examples shall be forthcoming from me. This of course has nothing to do with the fact that I have no idea what any of the bands or song-titles are actually named... :D
Evil Trucker Music Video - just to give you some idea. Also made popular by the Smokey and the Bandit Movies.
Ahem.
I always liked the hard rock of the 70's and a lot of the 60's stuff, though.
Wait, let me edit this to put something about the topic, heh. I really enjoyed El in Hell, the way a bunch of scraps and pieces came together to make something cool. Like the Beatles white album or Abbey Road. :-)
I really like disco, though, and I'm almost always in the mood for it.
-Well, in that case...Ugh...I like Disco, too!
How the mighty are fallen...
No, [b]RISEN![/b]
Markus, I watched that video. Apparently, "trucker music" is a type of country music, as far as I can tell.
How the mighty are fallen...
-Which, ironically enough, is the name of my module.
-How did I fall, though?
Disco is the root of all falls, no matter what Rino's misguided tastes might say to the contrary... ;) :D
-It's better to just agree with her.
No need to... I have a wife who hates disco almost as much as I do, so it's better for me to agree with her, if you take my meaning... ;)
-Gotcha. Mrs. Stigger.
I like disco! :D
-Well, you, no one cares about, so we can freely disagree. :D :P
-It's better to just agree with her.
You have the right of it!:D
You have the right of it!:D
-See, I know these things. ;)
-But, as Stigger alluded to, Mrs. Stigger is no one to be trifled with.
Ah, but neither am I, so one is caught between a rock and a hard place.;)
-I always defer to you.
-I always defer to you.
Awww, I'm so glad.
No, [b]RISEN![/b]
Markus, I watched that video. Apparently, "trucker music" is a type of country music, as far as I can tell.
Kinda sorta.
More like 'Redneck' music (there's a subtle difference) - it has about as much in common with country as Hard rock has with 'pop' rock.
Oh, and it uses LOTS of CB lingo.
Ah, but neither am I, so one is caught between a rock and a hard place.;)
But I don't sleep with you, so sorry, its not even a vaguely difficult decision. :P
Hubris... or maybe thats just that vestige thing talking in my head again :P
-Hubris is the exact opposite of what I am demonstrating. ;)
True... but you gotta admit to a pretty strong case of it, given that whole Responsibility for the Destruction of Netheril thing. :P :D
-Oh, no, I definitley do. But, I'm...supressing it. Yeah.
Kinda sorta.
More like 'Redneck' music (there's a subtle difference) - it has about as much in common with country as Hard rock has with 'pop' rock.
Oh, and it uses LOTS of CB lingo.
I see, thanks. Now what's CB lingo?
But I don't sleep with you, so sorry, its not even a vaguely difficult decision. :P
I understand. But in the case of Karus...I am his Konsort.
I understand. But in the case of Karus...I am his Konsort.
So that's how we call "it" these days? :PI see, thanks. Now what's CB lingo?
-Country Bumpkin, maybe?
-Pshh, I wish. ;)
I understand. But in the case of Karus...I am his Konsort.
-You're cheating on me! Who is this 'Karus'!? I'll kill 'im!!
-Hands of Karsus, assemble!
-Hands of Karsus, disregard. False alarm.
I see, thanks. Now what's CB lingo?
Citizens Band =CB
that thing truckers talk on.
Ten-Four
-You're cheating on me! Who is this 'Karus'!? I'll kill 'im!!
-Hands of Karsus, assemble!
Yes!!!
:angelhide 
:fight!: 
-Hands of Karsus, disregard. False alarm.
:surrender 
:raincloud 
:headexplo :OMG!-Sorry, dude. If you want, you can go take care of Jose Canseco, just to keep sharp.
I thinkI'm hanging out with 18D too much :P
I thinkI'm hanging out with 18D too much :P
-Yes, yes you have.
*As the up-till-then-quite stranger leans over to the guy sitting next to him at the bar and says over his half empty flagon* "Heh, you think they realize they are debating over a fantasy game, about fictional characters, that changes every 10 or so years, which was based on a game originally created by a dude named Gygax (all hail his hearty memory) and written/created by a man none of them know on a personal level?"
Buuurp!
*The ruddy nosed bar mate turns to look at the originator of the unrequested commment and says*
"yep"
:D
LK
You'll probably eventually note that we'll debate over a how stale a bagel is around here when the mood strikes...
THAT had me LOL - Really LOL!
I really like it here - think I may stay a while.
LK