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End of realms?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
aardwolf
Jan 22, 2009 14:23:18 Looking at the points of light concept and the general destruction wrought upon Faerun by the spellplague, what do you all feel is the survivability of the "civilized" nations of Faerun, I fear the worst has hit Kara Tur as there are alot of Shou moving west...and the eastern kingdoms appear to be in shambles...is this the beginning of an end to the kingdoms we know?
#2
lord_karsus
Jan 22, 2009 14:24:41 -Being as that there aren't going to be any Forgotten Realms books, and the likelihood that a Kara-Tur campaign setting book appears very slim, I don't think you really have to worry about seeing Kara-Tur totaled or not anytime soon. In novels or DDI stuff possibly, but there's plenty of stuff that more people want to see before Kara-Tur.

-Instead, however, we do have this very attractive Kara-Tur Re-Dux...
#3
aardwolf
Jan 22, 2009 14:55:00 the Kara Tur redux looks pretty cool, and MarkusTays maps are awesome. I was just curious what the nations survivability looks like to others, not in a "the realms are doomed, damn 4ed and spellplague" sort of way, but as a coherent political entity sort of thing...working on building a good 4e FR campaign and considering things like can Narfell survive without collapsing into demonic anarchy, will Impultur and Damara ever recover, despite losses of territory it looks like Amn made out like a bandit (literally) from the current upheavals.
#4
Iluvrien
Jan 22, 2009 15:01:56
Looking at the points of light concept and the general destruction wrought upon Faerun by the spellplague, what do you all feel is the survivability of the "civilized" nations of Faerun, is this the beginning of an end to the kingdoms we know?

No, but that is because this isn't being handled logically but being handled in terms of Setting Plot and Metastory. If the world was composed as in the information we have been given so far (falling into truin and to be saved by a single party of adventurers), I fail to see how it would not fall into darkness fairly hastily.

But since the nations in question have Plot Armour until they are required not to by a campaign then I think they will be battered but fine for the time being. After all, adventuring groups need them for plot hooks and convenient shopping centres after all.
#5
JudgeDookie
Jan 22, 2009 15:03:56 It's all as you want it. That was what 4e was made for--to give you the power to do anything and all. They went to great lengths not to impose any restrictions or entanglements.

If you find it in the FRCG, don't expect it to disappear, change or catastrophically collapse. Everything you see there is solid unless you choose to make it malleable.
#6
lord_karsus
Jan 22, 2009 15:04:41
I was just curious what the nations survivability looks like to others, not in a "the realms are doomed, damn 4ed and spellplague" sort of way, but as a coherent political entity sort of thing...

-Given that, we don't know (and likely never will know) the extent that the Spellplague affected Kara-Tur, we'll probably never have a concrete way to determine this. My opinion? Shou Lung was probably affected the most, being so large. T'u Lung probably tried to take advantage of this, but couldn't, due to political corruption and general crappiness there.
#7
aardwolf
Jan 22, 2009 15:12:27 Maybe with luck DDI might give some insight into the more obscure areas of Toril and or returned Abeir.
#8
JudgeDookie
Jan 22, 2009 15:13:43
#9
rinonalyrna_fathomlin
Jan 22, 2009 15:18:47 By the way, much of the Realms was "Points of Light" long before 4E came along.
#10
lord_karsus
Jan 22, 2009 15:22:15
Maybe with luck DDI might give some insight into the more obscure areas of Toril and or returned Abeir.

-Probably not. Not for a while, anyway. Like I said, there are plenty of more "traditional" places that haven't gotten any highlights, so Kara-Tur is going to have to get a number and wait at the back of the line. WotC hasn't showed any signs of them rethinking their policy to scrap Kara-Tur, because it is a niche setting, either.
#11
Iluvrien
Jan 22, 2009 15:23:48
Maybe with luck DDI might give some insight into the more obscure areas of Toril and or returned Abeir.

Well, if you are running a game, then it doesn't really matter as you can detail it however you like. If you are interested purely from a lore standpoint then.. um.. I wouldn't hold out much hope, if I were you. Eberron is coming soon and I personally except the trickle of FR material in DDI to dry up even further.

By the way, much of the Realms was "Points of Light" long before 4E came along.

Indeed, but the OP seems to have reached the same conclusion others of us have... that the balance has finally been upset.
#12
aardwolf
Jan 22, 2009 15:29:10 I wouldnt have really classified it as points of light..overall..there was a pretyy decent road network, even if alot were "goat paths" and the feel was more of civilization on the rise,..the modern age shows more of a decline and there are fewer roads on the map and more ruins that were once thriving cities...the north and bloodstone had a good PoL feel though even as far back as 1st ed.
#13
markustay63
Jan 22, 2009 22:33:06 The official Realms will die... eventually. It may be next week, or next year, or even five years from now, but it's inevitable. ALL good things come to end.

However, I think the fanbase will manage to keep them alive for years to come, whatever edition they play - its the fans that determine weather a product-line is successful or not, not the guys trying to sell it.
#14
aardwolf
Jan 23, 2009 8:42:31 Hey MarkusTay is there another link to your maps...the one above keeps giving me this :

Site Blocked

This web site has been blocked by the order of the Ministry of Culture and Information based on Article 19 of Decree Law No. 47, 2002 regarding the organization of the press, printing and publishing in the Kingdom of Bahrain due to the publication of prohibited content on the aforementioned site.
#15
markustay63
Jan 23, 2009 10:00:10 DeviantART is blocked by Bahrain?

My Maps are not pornographic, but some of the 'art' there can be considered questionable (especially under the 'fetish' category).

You can go to Candlekeep - many of them are in the Maproom over there.

Or you can try changing your country of origin on your computer - I know that worked for me once. ;)
#16
aardwolf
Jan 23, 2009 11:00:19 I am stuck here with 1 internet provider..state owned of course. but thanks for the candlekeep heads up :D
#17
lord_karsus
Jan 23, 2009 11:13:52 -Well, no offense, but my opinion of Bahrain just dropped one little notch. Just a little bit, but...
#18
aardwolf
Jan 23, 2009 11:38:45 might be hard pressed to have a lower opinion of this place than I do :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 aardwolf Jan 22, 2009 14:23:18	Looking at the points of light concept and the general destruction wrought upon Faerun by the spellplague, what do you all feel is the survivability of the "civilized" nations of Faerun, I fear the worst has hit Kara Tur as there are alot of Shou moving west...and the eastern kingdoms appear to be in shambles...is this the beginning of an end to the kingdoms we know?
#2 lord_karsus Jan 22, 2009 14:24:41	-Being as that there aren't going to be any Forgotten Realms books, and the likelihood that a Kara-Tur campaign setting book appears very slim, I don't think you really have to worry about seeing Kara-Tur totaled or not anytime soon. In novels or DDI stuff possibly, but there's plenty of stuff that more people want to see before Kara-Tur. -Instead, however, we do have this very attractive Kara-Tur Re-Dux...
#3 aardwolf Jan 22, 2009 14:55:00	the Kara Tur redux looks pretty cool, and MarkusTays maps are awesome. I was just curious what the nations survivability looks like to others, not in a "the realms are doomed, damn 4ed and spellplague" sort of way, but as a coherent political entity sort of thing...working on building a good 4e FR campaign and considering things like can Narfell survive without collapsing into demonic anarchy, will Impultur and Damara ever recover, despite losses of territory it looks like Amn made out like a bandit (literally) from the current upheavals.
#4 Iluvrien Jan 22, 2009 15:01:56	Looking at the points of light concept and the general destruction wrought upon Faerun by the spellplague, what do you all feel is the survivability of the "civilized" nations of Faerun, is this the beginning of an end to the kingdoms we know? No, but that is because this isn't being handled logically but being handled in terms of Setting Plot and Metastory. If the world was composed as in the information we have been given so far (falling into truin and to be saved by a single party of adventurers), I fail to see how it would not fall into darkness fairly hastily. But since the nations in question have Plot Armour until they are required not to by a campaign then I think they will be battered but fine for the time being. After all, adventuring groups need them for plot hooks and convenient shopping centres after all.
#5 JudgeDookie Jan 22, 2009 15:03:56	It's all as you want it. That was what 4e was made for--to give you the power to do anything and all. They went to great lengths not to impose any restrictions or entanglements. If you find it in the FRCG, don't expect it to disappear, change or catastrophically collapse. Everything you see there is solid unless you choose to make it malleable.
#6 lord_karsus Jan 22, 2009 15:04:41	I was just curious what the nations survivability looks like to others, not in a "the realms are doomed, damn 4ed and spellplague" sort of way, but as a coherent political entity sort of thing... -Given that, we don't know (and likely never will know) the extent that the Spellplague affected Kara-Tur, we'll probably never have a concrete way to determine this. My opinion? Shou Lung was probably affected the most, being so large. T'u Lung probably tried to take advantage of this, but couldn't, due to political corruption and general crappiness there.
#7 aardwolf Jan 22, 2009 15:12:27	Maybe with luck DDI might give some insight into the more obscure areas of Toril and or returned Abeir.
#8 JudgeDookie Jan 22, 2009 15:13:43
#9 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Jan 22, 2009 15:18:47	By the way, much of the Realms was "Points of Light" long before 4E came along.
#10 lord_karsus Jan 22, 2009 15:22:15	Maybe with luck DDI might give some insight into the more obscure areas of Toril and or returned Abeir. -Probably not. Not for a while, anyway. Like I said, there are plenty of more "traditional" places that haven't gotten any highlights, so Kara-Tur is going to have to get a number and wait at the back of the line. WotC hasn't showed any signs of them rethinking their policy to scrap Kara-Tur, because it is a niche setting, either.
#11 Iluvrien Jan 22, 2009 15:23:48	Maybe with luck DDI might give some insight into the more obscure areas of Toril and or returned Abeir. Well, if you are running a game, then it doesn't really matter as you can detail it however you like. If you are interested purely from a lore standpoint then.. um.. I wouldn't hold out much hope, if I were you. Eberron is coming soon and I personally except the trickle of FR material in DDI to dry up even further. By the way, much of the Realms was "Points of Light" long before 4E came along. Indeed, but the OP seems to have reached the same conclusion others of us have... that the balance has finally been upset.
#12 aardwolf Jan 22, 2009 15:29:10	I wouldnt have really classified it as points of light..overall..there was a pretyy decent road network, even if alot were "goat paths" and the feel was more of civilization on the rise,..the modern age shows more of a decline and there are fewer roads on the map and more ruins that were once thriving cities...the north and bloodstone had a good PoL feel though even as far back as 1st ed.
#13 markustay63 Jan 22, 2009 22:33:06	The official Realms will die... eventually. It may be next week, or next year, or even five years from now, but it's inevitable. ALL good things come to end. However, I think the fanbase will manage to keep them alive for years to come, whatever edition they play - its the fans that determine weather a product-line is successful or not, not the guys trying to sell it.
#14 aardwolf Jan 23, 2009 8:42:31	Hey MarkusTay is there another link to your maps...the one above keeps giving me this : Site Blocked This web site has been blocked by the order of the Ministry of Culture and Information based on Article 19 of Decree Law No. 47, 2002 regarding the organization of the press, printing and publishing in the Kingdom of Bahrain due to the publication of prohibited content on the aforementioned site.
#15 markustay63 Jan 23, 2009 10:00:10	DeviantART is blocked by Bahrain? My Maps are not pornographic, but some of the 'art' there can be considered questionable (especially under the 'fetish' category). You can go to Candlekeep - many of them are in the Maproom over there. Or you can try changing your country of origin on your computer - I know that worked for me once. ;)
#16 aardwolf Jan 23, 2009 11:00:19	I am stuck here with 1 internet provider..state owned of course. but thanks for the candlekeep heads up :D
#17 lord_karsus Jan 23, 2009 11:13:52	-Well, no offense, but my opinion of Bahrain just dropped one little notch. Just a little bit, but...
#18 aardwolf Jan 23, 2009 11:38:45	might be hard pressed to have a lower opinion of this place than I do :D