Erevan ilesere and Eldreth Veluuthra... - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Erevan ilesere and Eldreth Veluuthra...

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Khaelieth
Apr 18, 2008 19:14:16 Just realised that Erevan could have CE clerics. But why doesn't the Eldreth Veluuthra have a CE cleric? Because it's stated they don't have clerics, i think.
#2
green_elven_vampire
Apr 18, 2008 21:30:19
Just realised that Erevan could have CE clerics. But why doesn't the Eldreth Veluuthra have a CE cleric? Because it's stated they don't have clerics, i think.

Erevan Ilesere is a CN deity and his followers range from CG, CN and CE

The EV usually don't have clerics because even though they believe they are doing the work of good for the goodly races, they are in fact not. But I don't see why one couldn't be a cleric of Sheverash, Fenmeral(sp) or Erevan.
#3
Khaelieth
Apr 19, 2008 6:35:57
Erevan Ilesere is a CN deity and his followers range from CG, CN and CE

The EV usually don't have clerics because even though they believe they are doing the work of good for the goodly races, they are in fact not. But I don't see why one couldn't be a cleric of Sheverash, Fenmeral(sp) or Erevan.

Well, it basically says in Lords of Darkness they don't have clerics at all, which doesn't make much sense. Does anyone else agree?
#4
fabius_maximus
Apr 19, 2008 8:23:28
Well, it basically says in Lords of Darkness they don't have clerics at all, which doesn't make much sense. Does anyone else agree?

No. I think the Seldarine agreed not to give them any clerical powers, because the Eldreth Veluuthra are just too different, and somehow remind them of the Vyshaani in their methods.
#5
green_elven_vampire
Apr 19, 2008 12:27:30 The Ape who could fly!!!
#6
lord_karsus
Apr 19, 2008 12:46:03 -Their alignments satisfy the ability to have Clerics, sure, but the Seldarine does not agree with the motives of the Eldreth Veluuthra, and as such, they do not grant the preists and/or priestess' who affiliate themselves with the organization spells.
#7
fabius_maximus
Apr 19, 2008 18:25:19
The Ape who could fly!!!

Somehow I think your mind just snapped completely...
#8
the_shaman
Apr 19, 2008 21:14:12 I am a little surprised by that - I can understand Corellon or Sehanine not sponsoring them, but their ideology does not seem so inimical to, say, Fenmarel's dogma - and He's not that closely bound to the rest of the pantheon anyway.

I think it a bit of an oversight, imo.
#9
sfdragon
Apr 20, 2008 3:53:42 thats the lone wolf right?

well he wouldnt because he has no home and he'd get booted from where he currently abides, so it would be kind of hard to supoort a group of murderers when you live in some other deity's home.

shevaresh hates the drow not humans, eravan is a prankster at heart, and this he wouldnt think was funny.

besides the Eldreth veluuthra are nothing more than vyyshan dogs
#10
xhereticx
Apr 20, 2008 9:04:25 What people have already said basically sums it up. If the Eldreth Veluuthra get divine powers from anywhere, it would probably be from fiend lords like Malkizid (though they woudn't know it was him), or they could draw power from natural sources under the wings of someone like the ice lich.

Anyway, for a while I thought Shevaresh might have been a good patron for the EV, because of his whole violent left-hand philosophy on defending the elven people.
#11
the_shaman
Apr 20, 2008 10:47:03
Anyway, for a while I thought Shevaresh might have been a good patron for the EV, because of his whole violent left-hand philosophy on defending the elven people.

I think Fenmarel would be a better fit - he is not very interested in principles, as long as the elven race, and his devotees in particular, are safe. Shevarash is 98% about fighting the drow and their allies, which for most of the EV is not a big issue. If anything, he'd consider contacts with humans or dwarves a foolish waste as long as a single Lloth-worshipper draws breath. That, and he would probably consider the EV's activities near Cormanthor, where they iirc try to pit the humans against the drow, bordering on blasphemous.

If I may paraphrase, Shevarash's faith may well be summarized as. "Do not ask "Why kill the drow?" rather, ask "When, and where?"
#12
lord_karsus
Apr 20, 2008 11:01:36
I am a little surprised by that - I can understand Corellon or Sehanine not sponsoring them, but their ideology does not seem so inimical to, say, Fenmarel's dogma - and He's not that closely bound to the rest of the pantheon anyway.

I think it a bit of an oversight, imo.

-Fenmarel is a loner because of what happened in his past, concerning Lolth. Sponsoring the Eldreth Veluuthra is no way for him to "redeem himself" in his own mind.
#13
the_shaman
Apr 20, 2008 11:07:33 Possible, but imo he's the most likely to sponsor individual clerics affiliated with the Victorious Blade.
#14
iakhovas
Apr 20, 2008 13:09:33 If the Seldarine do not grant the Eldreth Veluuthra divine spells, perhaps the seelie/unseelie courts will.
#15
lord_karsus
Apr 20, 2008 13:55:27
If the Seldarine do not grant the Eldreth Veluuthra divine spells, perhaps the seelie/unseelie courts will.

-Both would have reason to, based on the fact that one of the goals of the Eldreth Veluuthra is to curb Human expansion into Elven territories, many of which are already inhabited by Fey and Sylvan creatures. The Seelie Court, I'm a little more hesitant to say that they would, being as they, in general, are closely allied with the Seldarine. But, then again, it's not like Saudi Arabia, an ally of the United States ever funnels money to Islamic fundamentalist terror organizations.

-And then, the Unseelie Court, they'd definitley have reason to do so. Not only would they be protecting Fey and Sylvan folk, but granting members of the Eldreth Veluuthra spells, in the face of the Seldarine not doing so, fits in greatly with the whole 'corruption' theme that they have going.
#16
18DELTA
Apr 20, 2008 16:02:23
If the Seldarine do not grant the Eldreth Veluuthra divine spells, perhaps the seelie/unseelie courts will.

- Question will the Seelie/Unseelie Courts even be around in 4E? I could see the Queen of Air and Darkness granting them some kinda boon.(Or maybe not) But I really doubt that she will be around for 4E. Which is sad IMHO. WotC in the desire to do away with some sacred cows, have gone to an extreme. Mechanical sacred cows, they can do with them what they like. Its the lore that bothers me.

18D
#17
xhereticx
Apr 20, 2008 16:10:44
- Question will the Seelie/Unseelie Courts even be around in 4E? I could see the Queen of Air and Darkness granting them some kinda boon.(Or maybe not) But I really doubt that she will be around for 4E. Which is sad IMHO. WotC in the desire to do away with some sacred cows, have gone to an extreme. Mechanical sacred cows, they can do with them what they like. Its the lore that bothers me.

18D

Hmm, I don't think she's even big of a deal enough that Wizards will bother "officially" removing her. They might not even touch her and you can just use old lore and fit it in the new system.
#18
lord_karsus
Apr 20, 2008 17:20:06
- Question will the Seelie/Unseelie Courts even be around in 4E? I could see the Queen of Air and Darkness granting them some kinda boon.(Or maybe not) But I really doubt that she will be around for 4E. Which is sad IMHO. WotC in the desire to do away with some sacred cows, have gone to an extreme. Mechanical sacred cows, they can do with them what they like. Its the lore that bothers me.

18D

-Something tells me they aren't going to be around. I mean, how much attention did either court get in official 3e era materials from WotC? Although, if the Plane of Faerie is going to recieving a lot more attention, being as that the Seelie Court resides there...You never know...
#19
Khaelieth
Apr 20, 2008 18:27:30 And on the topic of the Seldarine granting the Eldreth Veluuthra spells... Can they even chose not to do that because you've got the Vhaeraunites that infilrate the Lolthites, which Lolth doesn't know about.

We could bring Lossarwyn's source of power up again...

Has he actually discovered a new source of divine power?
is it Shar? is it Lolth? Moander? Auril?
Please welcome our newest contestant; The Seelie and Unseelie courts!
#20
xhereticx
Apr 20, 2008 18:52:50
And on the topic of the Seldarine granting the Eldreth Veluuthra spells... Can they even chose not to do that because you've got the Vhaeraunites that infilrate the Lolthites, which Lolth doesn't know about.

We could bring Lossarwyn's source of power up again...

Has he actually discovered a new source of divine power?
is it Shar? is it Lolth? Moander? Auril?
Please welcome our newest contestant; The Seelie and Unseelie courts!

I still think it's Malkizid but that's just me. Lolth and the Unseelie court are also high possibilities.
#21
lord_karsus
Apr 20, 2008 20:08:37
And on the topic of the Seldarine granting the Eldreth Veluuthra spells... Can they even chose not to do that because you've got the Vhaeraunites that infilrate the Lolthites, which Lolth doesn't know about.

-Yes, yes they can.

-Concerning the Vhaeraunites you are talking about, the Traitor-Priestess' of Lolth, they are granted spells by both Vhaeraun and Lolth. They worship both Lolth and Vhaeraun. Some say that Lolth is completely oblivious to the fact that these priestess' also worship Vhaeraun, but others say that she knows, but doesn't do anything, because those priestess' are creating massive chaos with their deception.
#22
xhereticx
Apr 20, 2008 20:18:00
-Yes, yes they can.

-Concerning the Vhaeraunites you are talking about, the Traitor-Priestess' of Lolth, they are granted spells by both Vhaeraun and Lolth. They worship both Lolth and Vhaeraun. Some say that Lolth is completely oblivious to the fact that these priestess' also worship Vhaeraun, but others say that she knows, but doesn't do anything, because those priestess' are creating massive chaos with their deception.

Lolth and Vhaeraun play a very shrewd game of cat and mouse that actually benefits both. They both gain servants (powerful ones too), they can both use them against the other deity, and they can both indirectly help each other eliminate their enemies (that are usually shared anyway). Lolth herself gains a great advantage as she usually has more control over the traitor-priestesses than Vhaeraun does and she enjoys they sheer chaos they bring as well. So no matter the scenario its a win-win situation for her.
#23
lord_karsus
Apr 20, 2008 20:28:22
Lolth and Vhaeraun play a very shrewd game of cat and mouse that actually benefits both.

-All of the members of the Dark Seldarine share symbiotic relationships, even though there is a lot of mutual hate. Looking at things in the most basic way, because Lolth dominates, for the most part, Drow society, outcasts and rebels look for other deities- the Dark Seldarine. So, in that most basic way, Lolth is "giving" them worshippers.
#24
lord_karsus
Apr 20, 2008 20:33:03 -All of the members of the Dark Seldarine share symbiotic relationships, even though there is a lot of mutual hate. Looking at things in the most basic way, because Lolth dominates, for the most part, Drow society, outcasts and rebels look for other deities- the Dark Seldarine. So, in that most basic way, Lolth is "giving" them worshippers.
#25
xhereticx
Apr 20, 2008 21:00:59
-All of the members of the Dark Seldarine share symbiotic relationships, even though there is a lot of mutual hate. Looking at things in the most basic way, because Lolth dominates, for the most part, Drow society, outcasts and rebels look for other deities- the Dark Seldarine. So, in that most basic way, Lolth is "giving" them worshippers.

Well, it's all a game to Lolth, and it woudn't be any fun if her opponents didn't have any pieces so...;)
#26
lord_karsus
Apr 20, 2008 22:59:43
Well, it's all a game to Lolth, and it woudn't be any fun if her opponents didn't have any pieces so...;)

-She is wacky like that.
#27
sfdragon
Apr 21, 2008 3:04:17 is malkazid even still alive after the last portal?
#28
lord_karsus
Apr 21, 2008 10:26:17
is malkazid even still alive after the last portal?

-The Last Mythal Trilogy.
Show
-No.
#29
alediran
Apr 21, 2008 11:38:54 Since there was no corpse to watch then we can presume he is still alive. He fell in a rift between dimensions, you should know how those turn out at the end. I'm sure Malkizid will appear in 4ed as one of Cormanthor's big enemies.
#30
sfdragon
Apr 22, 2008 3:17:18
Since there was no corpse to watch then we can presume he is still alive. He fell in a rift between dimensions, you should know how those turn out at the end. I'm sure Malkizid will appear in 4ed as one of Cormanthor's big enemies.

that rift could of ended up right on asmodeaus's dinner plate
#31
the_shaman
Apr 22, 2008 7:34:31 Still, as the Bene Gesserit says, don't count someone as dead until you've seen their corpse - and even then, you could be wrong.

In this case, don't count someone as dead until the author says so... and even then, they may change their mind ;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Khaelieth Apr 18, 2008 19:14:16	Just realised that Erevan could have CE clerics. But why doesn't the Eldreth Veluuthra have a CE cleric? Because it's stated they don't have clerics, i think.
#2 green_elven_vampire Apr 18, 2008 21:30:19	Just realised that Erevan could have CE clerics. But why doesn't the Eldreth Veluuthra have a CE cleric? Because it's stated they don't have clerics, i think. Erevan Ilesere is a CN deity and his followers range from CG, CN and CE The EV usually don't have clerics because even though they believe they are doing the work of good for the goodly races, they are in fact not. But I don't see why one couldn't be a cleric of Sheverash, Fenmeral(sp) or Erevan.
#3 Khaelieth Apr 19, 2008 6:35:57	Erevan Ilesere is a CN deity and his followers range from CG, CN and CE The EV usually don't have clerics because even though they believe they are doing the work of good for the goodly races, they are in fact not. But I don't see why one couldn't be a cleric of Sheverash, Fenmeral(sp) or Erevan. Well, it basically says in Lords of Darkness they don't have clerics at all, which doesn't make much sense. Does anyone else agree?
#4 fabius_maximus Apr 19, 2008 8:23:28	Well, it basically says in Lords of Darkness they don't have clerics at all, which doesn't make much sense. Does anyone else agree? No. I think the Seldarine agreed not to give them any clerical powers, because the Eldreth Veluuthra are just too different, and somehow remind them of the Vyshaani in their methods.
#5 green_elven_vampire Apr 19, 2008 12:27:30	The Ape who could fly!!!
#6 lord_karsus Apr 19, 2008 12:46:03	-Their alignments satisfy the ability to have Clerics, sure, but the Seldarine does not agree with the motives of the Eldreth Veluuthra, and as such, they do not grant the preists and/or priestess' who affiliate themselves with the organization spells.
#7 fabius_maximus Apr 19, 2008 18:25:19	The Ape who could fly!!! Somehow I think your mind just snapped completely...
#8 the_shaman Apr 19, 2008 21:14:12	I am a little surprised by that - I can understand Corellon or Sehanine not sponsoring them, but their ideology does not seem so inimical to, say, Fenmarel's dogma - and He's not that closely bound to the rest of the pantheon anyway. I think it a bit of an oversight, imo.
#9 sfdragon Apr 20, 2008 3:53:42	thats the lone wolf right? well he wouldnt because he has no home and he'd get booted from where he currently abides, so it would be kind of hard to supoort a group of murderers when you live in some other deity's home. shevaresh hates the drow not humans, eravan is a prankster at heart, and this he wouldnt think was funny. besides the Eldreth veluuthra are nothing more than vyyshan dogs
#10 xhereticx Apr 20, 2008 9:04:25	What people have already said basically sums it up. If the Eldreth Veluuthra get divine powers from anywhere, it would probably be from fiend lords like Malkizid (though they woudn't know it was him), or they could draw power from natural sources under the wings of someone like the ice lich. Anyway, for a while I thought Shevaresh might have been a good patron for the EV, because of his whole violent left-hand philosophy on defending the elven people.
#11 the_shaman Apr 20, 2008 10:47:03	Anyway, for a while I thought Shevaresh might have been a good patron for the EV, because of his whole violent left-hand philosophy on defending the elven people. I think Fenmarel would be a better fit - he is not very interested in principles, as long as the elven race, and his devotees in particular, are safe. Shevarash is 98% about fighting the drow and their allies, which for most of the EV is not a big issue. If anything, he'd consider contacts with humans or dwarves a foolish waste as long as a single Lloth-worshipper draws breath. That, and he would probably consider the EV's activities near Cormanthor, where they iirc try to pit the humans against the drow, bordering on blasphemous. If I may paraphrase, Shevarash's faith may well be summarized as. "Do not ask "Why kill the drow?" rather, ask "When, and where?"
#12 lord_karsus Apr 20, 2008 11:01:36	I am a little surprised by that - I can understand Corellon or Sehanine not sponsoring them, but their ideology does not seem so inimical to, say, Fenmarel's dogma - and He's not that closely bound to the rest of the pantheon anyway. I think it a bit of an oversight, imo. -Fenmarel is a loner because of what happened in his past, concerning Lolth. Sponsoring the Eldreth Veluuthra is no way for him to "redeem himself" in his own mind.
#13 the_shaman Apr 20, 2008 11:07:33	Possible, but imo he's the most likely to sponsor individual clerics affiliated with the Victorious Blade.
#14 iakhovas Apr 20, 2008 13:09:33	If the Seldarine do not grant the Eldreth Veluuthra divine spells, perhaps the seelie/unseelie courts will.
#15 lord_karsus Apr 20, 2008 13:55:27	If the Seldarine do not grant the Eldreth Veluuthra divine spells, perhaps the seelie/unseelie courts will. -Both would have reason to, based on the fact that one of the goals of the Eldreth Veluuthra is to curb Human expansion into Elven territories, many of which are already inhabited by Fey and Sylvan creatures. The Seelie Court, I'm a little more hesitant to say that they would, being as they, in general, are closely allied with the Seldarine. But, then again, it's not like Saudi Arabia, an ally of the United States ever funnels money to Islamic fundamentalist terror organizations. -And then, the Unseelie Court, they'd definitley have reason to do so. Not only would they be protecting Fey and Sylvan folk, but granting members of the Eldreth Veluuthra spells, in the face of the Seldarine not doing so, fits in greatly with the whole 'corruption' theme that they have going.
#16 18DELTA Apr 20, 2008 16:02:23	If the Seldarine do not grant the Eldreth Veluuthra divine spells, perhaps the seelie/unseelie courts will. - Question will the Seelie/Unseelie Courts even be around in 4E? I could see the Queen of Air and Darkness granting them some kinda boon.(Or maybe not) But I really doubt that she will be around for 4E. Which is sad IMHO. WotC in the desire to do away with some sacred cows, have gone to an extreme. Mechanical sacred cows, they can do with them what they like. Its the lore that bothers me. 18D
#17 xhereticx Apr 20, 2008 16:10:44	- Question will the Seelie/Unseelie Courts even be around in 4E? I could see the Queen of Air and Darkness granting them some kinda boon.(Or maybe not) But I really doubt that she will be around for 4E. Which is sad IMHO. WotC in the desire to do away with some sacred cows, have gone to an extreme. Mechanical sacred cows, they can do with them what they like. Its the lore that bothers me. 18D Hmm, I don't think she's even big of a deal enough that Wizards will bother "officially" removing her. They might not even touch her and you can just use old lore and fit it in the new system.
#18 lord_karsus Apr 20, 2008 17:20:06	- Question will the Seelie/Unseelie Courts even be around in 4E? I could see the Queen of Air and Darkness granting them some kinda boon.(Or maybe not) But I really doubt that she will be around for 4E. Which is sad IMHO. WotC in the desire to do away with some sacred cows, have gone to an extreme. Mechanical sacred cows, they can do with them what they like. Its the lore that bothers me. 18D -Something tells me they aren't going to be around. I mean, how much attention did either court get in official 3e era materials from WotC? Although, if the Plane of Faerie is going to recieving a lot more attention, being as that the Seelie Court resides there...You never know...
#19 Khaelieth Apr 20, 2008 18:27:30	And on the topic of the Seldarine granting the Eldreth Veluuthra spells... Can they even chose not to do that because you've got the Vhaeraunites that infilrate the Lolthites, which Lolth doesn't know about. We could bring Lossarwyn's source of power up again... Has he actually discovered a new source of divine power? is it Shar? is it Lolth? Moander? Auril? Please welcome our newest contestant; The Seelie and Unseelie courts!
#20 xhereticx Apr 20, 2008 18:52:50	And on the topic of the Seldarine granting the Eldreth Veluuthra spells... Can they even chose not to do that because you've got the Vhaeraunites that infilrate the Lolthites, which Lolth doesn't know about. We could bring Lossarwyn's source of power up again... Has he actually discovered a new source of divine power? is it Shar? is it Lolth? Moander? Auril? Please welcome our newest contestant; The Seelie and Unseelie courts! I still think it's Malkizid but that's just me. Lolth and the Unseelie court are also high possibilities.
#21 lord_karsus Apr 20, 2008 20:08:37	And on the topic of the Seldarine granting the Eldreth Veluuthra spells... Can they even chose not to do that because you've got the Vhaeraunites that infilrate the Lolthites, which Lolth doesn't know about. -Yes, yes they can. -Concerning the Vhaeraunites you are talking about, the Traitor-Priestess' of Lolth, they are granted spells by both Vhaeraun and Lolth. They worship both Lolth and Vhaeraun. Some say that Lolth is completely oblivious to the fact that these priestess' also worship Vhaeraun, but others say that she knows, but doesn't do anything, because those priestess' are creating massive chaos with their deception.
#22 xhereticx Apr 20, 2008 20:18:00	-Yes, yes they can. -Concerning the Vhaeraunites you are talking about, the Traitor-Priestess' of Lolth, they are granted spells by both Vhaeraun and Lolth. They worship both Lolth and Vhaeraun. Some say that Lolth is completely oblivious to the fact that these priestess' also worship Vhaeraun, but others say that she knows, but doesn't do anything, because those priestess' are creating massive chaos with their deception. Lolth and Vhaeraun play a very shrewd game of cat and mouse that actually benefits both. They both gain servants (powerful ones too), they can both use them against the other deity, and they can both indirectly help each other eliminate their enemies (that are usually shared anyway). Lolth herself gains a great advantage as she usually has more control over the traitor-priestesses than Vhaeraun does and she enjoys they sheer chaos they bring as well. So no matter the scenario its a win-win situation for her.
#23 lord_karsus Apr 20, 2008 20:28:22	Lolth and Vhaeraun play a very shrewd game of cat and mouse that actually benefits both. -All of the members of the Dark Seldarine share symbiotic relationships, even though there is a lot of mutual hate. Looking at things in the most basic way, because Lolth dominates, for the most part, Drow society, outcasts and rebels look for other deities- the Dark Seldarine. So, in that most basic way, Lolth is "giving" them worshippers.
#24 lord_karsus Apr 20, 2008 20:33:03	-All of the members of the Dark Seldarine share symbiotic relationships, even though there is a lot of mutual hate. Looking at things in the most basic way, because Lolth dominates, for the most part, Drow society, outcasts and rebels look for other deities- the Dark Seldarine. So, in that most basic way, Lolth is "giving" them worshippers.
#25 xhereticx Apr 20, 2008 21:00:59	-All of the members of the Dark Seldarine share symbiotic relationships, even though there is a lot of mutual hate. Looking at things in the most basic way, because Lolth dominates, for the most part, Drow society, outcasts and rebels look for other deities- the Dark Seldarine. So, in that most basic way, Lolth is "giving" them worshippers. Well, it's all a game to Lolth, and it woudn't be any fun if her opponents didn't have any pieces so...;)
#26 lord_karsus Apr 20, 2008 22:59:43	Well, it's all a game to Lolth, and it woudn't be any fun if her opponents didn't have any pieces so...;) -She is wacky like that.
#27 sfdragon Apr 21, 2008 3:04:17	is malkazid even still alive after the last portal?
#28 lord_karsus Apr 21, 2008 10:26:17	is malkazid even still alive after the last portal? -The Last Mythal Trilogy. Show -No.
#29 alediran Apr 21, 2008 11:38:54	Since there was no corpse to watch then we can presume he is still alive. He fell in a rift between dimensions, you should know how those turn out at the end. I'm sure Malkizid will appear in 4ed as one of Cormanthor's big enemies.
#30 sfdragon Apr 22, 2008 3:17:18	Since there was no corpse to watch then we can presume he is still alive. He fell in a rift between dimensions, you should know how those turn out at the end. I'm sure Malkizid will appear in 4ed as one of Cormanthor's big enemies. that rift could of ended up right on asmodeaus's dinner plate
#31 the_shaman Apr 22, 2008 7:34:31	Still, as the Bene Gesserit says, don't count someone as dead until you've seen their corpse - and even then, you could be wrong. In this case, don't count someone as dead until the author says so... and even then, they may change their mind ;)