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[b]In today’s Forgotten Realms preview, we take you to the region of Elfharrow, from Chapter 6 (Faerun and Beyond) of the forthcoming Campaign Guide.
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Scattered tribes of xenophobic elves hunt down and kill any intruders who attempt to cross this dry, not quite-desert land that outsiders call Elfharrow. The natives also patrol the North Wall mountains south of their lands, recording occasional sightings of monstrous entities in the high clouds along the ridgeline of desolated Halruaa.
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Scattered tribes of xenophobic elves hunt down and kill any intruders who attempt to cross this dry, not quite-desert land that outsiders call Elfharrow. The natives also patrol the North Wall mountains south of their lands, recording occasional sightings of monstrous entities in the high clouds along the ridgeline of desolated Halruaa.
-The blast that destroyed Halruaa rattled the windows in Waterdeep.
-So freewilled Aboleths are not apart of the Abolethic Sovereignty, so the Abolethic Sovereignty have a group mind?
18DELTA :embarrass
Hopefully they don't become the Valeran elves all of a sudden. The whole "living in the plains" thing reminds me of them. Anyway this fits with my elf pc named Kestrel that I wanted to play. Odd how things work. ;)
So Lapaliiya's been trashed too. I can almost understand the desire of the designers to remove the RW analogues and overpowered kingdoms; I don't like it, but I understand it. But Lapaliiya is, AFAIK, a nobody realm, not a copy of anything, about which we knew very little about. It would have been perfect to leave intact and developed for DM and player use. But no, the original undeveloped realms are being trashed too.
And tell me, how does an aboleth sit on a throne?
there's nothing going on.
You're kidding, right? There's lots you could do there. You could:
* Have the aboleth in the ruins rise up and cause trouble for the elves.
* Have Seaspark begin to unite the tribes or have her tribe abandon their isolationist ways.
* Do something with the centaur (I know nothing about Forgotten Realms centaur though).
* Have any number of races discover a rich vein of metal or gems and have a gold rush occur.
* Have Cuivanu be discovered and usher in a new golden age for these elves.
* Have Cuivanu be discovered as a lifeless hulk and destroy these people, scattering them across Faerun, allowing the aboleth from the south to finally begin their master plan with no-one in these lands to stop them, except for the players (could be a Paragon or Epic campaign).
Anyway, the more I think about this land, the more I like it
I've liked some of the earlier stuff: I can do things with a virtual kingdom of the undead but not with plains-dwelling elves. Different things appeal to different people.
See, normally I would agree with you. However, one of the great things about being me is my subjective opinion is automatically objectively superior to everyone else's. :P
That wouldn't be too weird, except most of the Realms changes had to do with apparent "ethnic cleansing" of most non-European inspired cultures.
Anyway, does anyone know where I would find good info about the Misty Vale elves before all this happened? I like to compare to the past to see if I can have it make sense somehow, but I don't particularly remember them existing.
it really saddens me that they killed Misty Vale
edit: the link to it http://www.forgottenrealmsvault.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20&st=0&sk=t&sd=a#p259
While the elves are not something I expect to actually use, this except was pretty ok, imo. "Seaspark" is a bit of a dumb name though - I would have preferred to see the elven name instead. She has some potential for use in adventures - I can totally see some of my PCs trying to mentor her to be a great leader.
... I just hope that this page 43 will reveal that these elves "worked along" with the "drow" only after their Descent. For the drow were only "drow" during the Fifth (and last) Crown War.
no the treachery happened during the Second Crown War
The best way I can describe it is that coming from the old FR I was expecting an enormous impressionist masterpiece... what I am getting is enormous line-art. Some parts may be intriguing and wonderful... but there is just too blasted much whitespace!
[EDIT: Removed some ambiguity)
Hopefully they don't become the Valeran [sic] elves all of a sudden.
Did you mean the Valenar?
It just occurs to me (years after the fact) that the Valenar elves are more than a little like the elven raiders from Taladas-- remember that one? The flip side of Krynn? I wonder if there's some inherent impulse in setting authors to push elves out of the trees...
Still, I'm looking forward to seeing the new sourcebook.
All the campaign settings have had big chunks of white space, filled in by sourcebooks and other information from before and after their publication. This seems to be somewhere between the 3e and 2e books for detail and about a million light years ahead of the 1e book.
Which is a "problem" because:
1) There's a 100 year gap so some of the old source books (although nowhere near as much as people here make out :rolleyes
won't be valid and2) They're keeping future source books at a minimum, with there possibly being none until the 5th edition. I doubt Dragon articles are going to be anywhere near as indepth as source books.
Personally, I love line-art with lots of whitespace. It lets me fill in my own drawings and make the Forgotten Realms my own. If I were telling a story I'd want very little whitespace, but considering I'm helping to make a story, that whitespace is perfect.
Some people look at this excerpt and say "nothing is happening here", others look at it and say "I can have lots of stuff happen here."
-It seems like certain parts of Serpent Kingdoms are getting 'trashed'.
-I do like the 'Cormyr' article. In a way I am glad that we are getting to see these 'sneak peaks'. So...when I finally read through the FRCG the shock and disgust wont cause me to have a book burning in the store.
-The Chult Article blows chunks. The Araunt Article blows chunks. The Loudwater Articles blows chunks. Yet I really liked BRJ's article. I am really starting to think that the 4E Realms are not for me and that is sad. I started playing D&D IN THE REALMS. This makes me sad. Oh well I still have the Pre-Spellplague Realms. Thanks alot WotC.
18DELTA
-The map won't work for me too.
-It seems like certain parts of Serpent Kingdoms are getting 'trashed'.
-I do like the 'Cormyr' article. In a way I am glad that we are getting to see these 'sneak peaks'. So...when I finally read through the FRCG the shock and disgust wont cause me to have a book burning in the store.
-The Chult Article blows chunks. The Araunt Article blows chunks. The Loudwater Articles blows chunks. Yet I really liked BRJ's article. I am really starting to think that the 4E Realms are not for me and that is sad. I started playing D&D IN THE REALMS. This makes me sad. Oh well I still have the Pre-Spellplague Realms. Thanks alot WotC.
18DELTA
Well there is a little difference between the awesome Cormyr article (which was to appear in Dragon several months ago) and the excepts from the books, as they are cut and paste from the FRCG. Maybe it will all make more sense once we can look at the complete picture.
Todays except was IMO better written (it felt complete enough) than the Undead one (as has been pointed out already some important snippets of information seem to be missing). I never really cared all that much for Chult so I can´t say much about it other than the writeup seems kinda short.
I am not shure but maybe thats partly intentional that they keep them short and leave out several locations (if they have no space to describe them putting them, not putting them on the map makes sense) so they can later give the job to Brian to make an awesome writeup for Dragon magazine.
Well hope springs eternal.
no the treachery happened during the Second Crown War
Can't be ... for the dark elves only descended after the Fourth Crown War and became drow ... see, that is what I was fearing. IF the new FRCS is actually stating your claim, of course. ;)
Can't be ... for the dark elves only descended after the Fourth Crown War and became drow ... see, that is what I was fearing. IF the new FRCS is actually stating your claim, of course. ;)
Maybe they meant "the elfs later known as drow"
Again, pretty much straight down the middle of the road "meh" to me, apart from the minor shudders from the recollection of the destruction of Halruaa (After Consellours & Kings I liked that place).
The best way I can describe it is that coming from the old FR I was expecting an enormous impressionist masterpiece... what I am getting is enormous line-art. Some parts may be intriguing and wonderful... but there is just too blasted much whitespace!
[EDIT: Removed some ambiguity)
Yes that triology was awesome, and I really don´t see why the decided to destroy Halrua, but well maybe they are cooking up something for us there. ( Kinda expect something like the Zanarkand from FFX, a land with many ruins wild magic and maybe some great evil brewing in there.)
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who can't access the map. Between that and the poor quality map in the excerpt, I can understand why everyone is ****** about the technical aspects. But I kind of like the new flavor. Maybe it's because in 20 years of gaming, I never used the Misty Vale or the Shaar area at all.
Good that someone likes it. But I have a strong suspicion that the maps in the chult except and the elfharrow are actually parts of the world map. I have to see the whole thing first, but after seeing the Cormyr map, well I guess I would prefer the old style. However to be fair the new one has the advantage that adding stuff would be a bit easier.
Some people look at this excerpt and say "nothing is happening here", others look at it and say "I can have lots of stuff happen here."
I could probably have explained it better.
I like to see plot-hooks in the region entries, like the Plots And Rumours bits in the FRCS 3e. A bit that says: "These are things going on right now and you need to deal with it soon." Basically, a sense that things are currently happening, Realms is a living world. If you leave a realm unattended, turn your back on it, and come back in a month's time, then events will have taken their course, and who knows what could happen.
As it is, reading these entries gives the impression that things were pretty much the same last year, and could be pretty much the same next year too. Or even 10 years ago, or 10 years hence. There's no breaking news.
I consider the mark of a good campaign setting to be one that requires no original thought from the GM whatsoever. Wait, that sounds bad. A campaign setting should be runnable straight out of the book and supply a few adventure hooks to get you started. FR has done that in every edition until this one (though of course I haven't seen the complete thing yet).
I think I'm an imaginative guy, I used to write fiction and won some short story competitions. I can come up with my own adventure hooks and campaigns. I just like to spark ideas off existing ones. Like starting a fire with a two rocks, wood and kindling. 4e FR hasn't given me the second rock yet, or a lot of kindling. (I can also do tortured analogies.)
-These excerpts maps are well 'meh'.
-The Elves that live in the Misty Vale(3.5) are descendants of the elves that betrayed their bretheren during the Crown Wars. They live an isolated life and slay all visitors to their lands, per Shining South. They are Wild Elves that follow Fenmarel Mestarine, the Lone Wolf. Yes I am running a game in the Shining South. :D
18DELTA ;)
So Lapaliiya's been trashed too. I can almost understand the desire of the designers to remove the RW analogues and overpowered kingdoms; I don't like it, but I understand it. But Lapaliiya is, AFAIK, a nobody realm, not a copy of anything, about which we knew very little about. It would have been perfect to leave intact and developed for DM and player use. But no, the original undeveloped realms are being trashed too.
Exactly--Lapaliiya was a scantly detailed realm. Isn't that want people supposedly wanted? Anyway I'm sad about its fate. I am "meh" about this excerpt overall.
And tell me, how does an aboleth sit on a throne?
Was wondering the same thing.
Did you mean the Valenar?
It just occurs to me (years after the fact) that the Valenar elves are more than a little like the elven raiders from Taladas-- remember that one? The flip side of Krynn? I wonder if there's some inherent impulse in setting authors to push elves out of the trees...
Maybe, but the core elves still come off as very forest-oriented.
Some people look at this excerpt and say "nothing is happening here", others look at it and say "I can have lots of stuff happen here."
Point taken. But I think it's just as fair to point out that the Shining South (among other FR regions) was never greatly detailed, and there was plenty of space for DMs to "fill in".
#2 - I'm not even off the first page ATM, and the Shaar Desolation sounds EXACTLY like Thousand Needles in WoW, and the Dead Vale sounds identical to WoW's Charred Vale.
At ANY point, did this design team come up with any idea that wasn't eirther awful or stolen?
Wish I could see how bad the map is...
#1 - I can't download the map... is the link broken?
I couldn't see it either.
I then swiched to IE (which appears to be stable again) and was able to get the article, but not the map. Thank You for confirming that for me, Rinon - I wasn't sure if it was still a problem on my end.
I have a feeling the map revealed something it shouldn't have (it looks pulled, from what I can tell) - does anyone, like maybe Delta, have a copy before it was axed?
If so, could you send it to me?
Please?
Pretty Please?
However, I am VERY happy that WotC is finally giving us some lore about the new setting, and I thank them for that. I have to say it is at least sparking an interest in me that I didn't have a week ago.
Is it me, or is there just nothing inspiring about the things we see in these excepts? There's nothing that jumps out and says "Go here! It'll be fun!". These realms aren't fresh and exciting, they feel tired and worn out, there's nothing going on. I think it's a symptom of the post-apocalyptic setting, and not something I got into the classic FR for.
I'm with you on this - it appears our good designers saved all their most creatiive bits for their novels, because this thing reads like a 10th grade math book. :P
This one was for me as well, though most of the kingdoms and things in that area have always been for me. I couldn't care less about plains dwelling elves. Wemics, wemics I could care about.
And strangely, I brought Amerind-type Elves into my Shaar, and hated the Wemics (probably the only Ed-creation I ever disliked). I replaced the Wemics with the Lionmen from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed material (and based them on the ones from the MtG game, believe it or not - lots of good fluff being produced there for a silly card-game). :P
The Loxo I moved south (you can see their kingdom of Sraghada on my Utter East Map), and the Thri-kreen I have moved into Zakhara (doing a bit of an Al-Qadim/Athas blend there). My Shar has Amerind-Elves, Centaur tribes, and Lionmen, and very FEW humans.
Running commentary in Blue for this -
You're kidding, right? There's lots you could do there. You could:
* Have the aboleth in the ruins rise up and cause trouble for the elves. Or you could just play Call of Cthulhu if you like this crap
* Have Seaspark begin to unite the tribes or have her tribe abandon their isolationist ways. very Dragonlance, IMHO
* Do something with the centaur (I know nothing about Forgotten Realms centaur though). Now thats just disgusting... :P
* Have any number of races discover a rich vein of metal or gems and have a gold rush occur. Indian-like tribes and a Goldrush? I think I might have heard that one before.. ;)
* Have Cuivanu be discovered and usher in a new golden age for these elves. ANOTHER Elven 'Golden Age'... I like them better when they were retreating
* Have Cuivanu be discovered as a lifeless hulk and destroy these people, scattering them across Faerun, allowing the aboleth from the south to finally begin their master plan with no-one in these lands to stop them, except for the players (could be a Paragon or Epic campaign). Except for the Aboleth, I like this one
Anyway, the more I think about this land, the more I like it
I don't hate it, but it doesn't really inspire me either.
*meh*
I've liked some of the earlier stuff: I can do things with a virtual kingdom of the undead but not with plains-dwelling elves. Different things appeal to different people.
VERY true - despite all of the above, I plan on using both of these, because they fit my personal take on the Realms.
... I just hope that this page 43 will reveal that these elves "worked along" with the "drow" only after their Descent. For the drow were only "drow" during the Fifth (and last) Crown War.
Green Elves working alongside Dark Elves is established history in ancient FR, and I even suggested to LK we turn the Miyeritar ones into an FR version of the Rockseer Elves, which I believe he used in the Elven Netbook (Elves of faerûn these days).
I have NO trouble with that part, and that is how I personally always established a difference between the Wood Elves and the Gruagach - the Wild Elves were those tribes that lived alongside of the Dark Elves and took their side, and still live the way they used to.
Edit: After re-reading your post, Zanan, I apologize - I see your point (sloppy writing there).
...Nnngh.
the map isnt working for me either ? im on firefox anyone have it ?
I've tried both, but I'm not getting an error message, so I think they pulled it down (since it supposedly worked at some point).
The screen I'm getting is the generic one you get whenever an address is incorrect, so it was definately moved, for whatever reason.
Is it just me, or did they just dump Valenar elves from Eberron into the Realms? And what about these here Spellscars...
...Nnngh.
One Rules to rule them all...
and in the blandness bind them...
In the Land of Hasbro, where the Shadows Lie.
Is it just me, or did they just dump Valenar elves from Eberron into the Realms? And what about these here Spellscars...
...Nnngh.
Valenar is hardly a uniquely Eberron idea, and for the spellscar's they sound alot alike, but we haven't seen any documentation on them, the entire idea sounds quite a bit different from dragonmark's (other than the idea of it being a mark).
18DELTA
-I was never able to see the map.
Ahhh... Okay...
Just a another cruel lie perpetrated by the evil Wizards who doth dwell upon the Coast.
Sorry... just couldn't resist that...
Perhaps it was as bad as the Chult one, and they are too ashamed to show it?
Ahhh... Okay...
Just a another cruel lie perpetrated by the evil Wizards who doth dwell upon the Coast.
Sorry... just couldn't resist that...
Perhaps it was as bad as the Chult one, and they are too ashamed to show it?
.... This is a joke right...
It has been posted in the daily updates section that the map should be fixed on monday.
It has been posted in the daily updates section that the map should be fixed on monday.
Thanks for the info.
And I was only half-joking... that Chult map was pretty embarrassing. :P
Running commentary in Blue for this -
I don't hate it, but it doesn't really inspire me either.
Whay are any of you bothering to read these excerpts? You've clearly made up your mind, why not just enjoy 3.5 FR and leave 4e FR behind?
Is it just me, or did they just dump Valenar elves from Eberron into the Realms?
Is that the new complaint? It isn't WoW, its Eberron? Because these elves are nothing like the Valenar ones.
Whay are any of you bothering to read these excerpts? You've clearly made up your mind, why not just enjoy 3.5 FR and leave 4e FR behind?
Becuase - believe it or not - I am really trying to like it.
And your comment about leaving "4e behind" is just too funny, dude. :D
I've never been asked to leave the newer version of something 'behind'.
That almost suggests 4e is more advanced.
And I do plan on giving the 4e rules and FR a chance, because it is only fair. Heck, I played with 2e rules, and absolutely HATED those the entire time I used them.
Its not about the rules, or even the setting - its about having fun, and I'm sure I'll have fun playing in this... even if I knock the hell out of it every step of the way.
And I do plan on giving the 4e rules and FR a chance, because it is only fair.
Given you've said you hate the rules AND the setting, and that you're only running it because its suitable for 6 year olds while you'll continue to run 3.5e FR with your more mature players, I don't really see you givine the new FR a chance or doing something "fair".
even if I knock the hell out of it every step of the way.
I just don't understand why you want to keep coming in these threads to complain about it. But next excerpt we get you'll all come into the thread for it and continue to complain about it. I just don't understand why you keep doing it. You hate it, we get it. Why continue to state it in every thread about the topic? Is this constant moaning and complaining enjoying for you?
For all I know, I may get to like 4e better, because its a helluva lot more streamlined for a DM to run.
Besides, I have to keep reminding my friends here how much I hate it, or they'll stop sharing their toys with me. ;)
Besides, I have to keep reminding my friends here how much I hate it, or they'll stop sharing their toys with me. ;)
I'll stop.
Great work guys, keep it coming!
*And yes, I know that my routine sweeps vs malware and all clear the cookies of WotC as well.
My opinion of the recent excerpts: meh.
Is that the new complaint? It isn't WoW, its Eberron?
The Eberron comparisons (whether they are fair or not) aren't that new.
True enough - they started when we got Dragonmarks (Spellscars) and the Mournland (Plagulands/Changing lands). ;)
-Would that have happened if Steven Schend and company were still working at WotC? You know those that left before and after Hasbro bought WotC. Eberron should stay in Eberron. The Realms should stay in the Realms.
18DELTA ;)
18DELTA ;)
The Spellscarred are just wearing "the number of the beast".
Lapaliiya and Tharsult
Goodbye Lapaliiya... We hardly knew ye.
Which probably means Wednesday. ;)
I just noticed after reading this article, but the Realms are starting to lose that loose, crusty, "libertarian" feeling that attracted me to the setting in the first place. Now most of the regions of Faerun are either carved up by powerful "empires" (Abolethic Sovereignty, Empire of Netheril, Imperial Cormyr, etc), or just utterly trashed and infested with freaks (Vilhon Reach, Unther, Haluraa, etc).
I still have that product shrink-wrapped (along with most of my other Dark Sun stuff).
Nah, Athasian Elves are... taller...
Hmmm... didn't the Elves get taller in 4e?
-No matter what, I guess some setting is still getting Ripped-off or 'shoehorned' into the 'Four-Gotten Realms'. :D
18DELTA :embarrass
The only setting they forgot to put in 4e FR is the Forgotten Realms. :D
Dragonmarks look suspiciously like Azure Bonds which were featured in the Realms long before Eberron was a twinkle in Keith Baker’s eye. So, I’m not concerned at all with Spellscars being introduced (back) into the Realms.
I thought Dragonmarks seem suspiciously like regional feats from FR 3.0 to me.
I guess anything that is different than standard FR and LOTR elves just appeal to me, even if they are similar to another settings elves.
I never really though of Alias when I saw the Dragonmarks and I am aa big Grubb fan. I did think of Eberron when I saw Spellscars at first. I really don't care though because they cannot be exact duplicates because Dragonmarks are linked (I think) with the Draconic Prophesy that surrounds all of the Eberron campaign. The Scars hopefully will not be linked to certain races like marks are and they will not be used to build economic family powerhouse like the marks do. If they add a little ooommph to my pc (now that feats are not all powerful) and give the pc some flavor then that is great.
The only intelligent species in Dragonlance, as far as I can tell, were the humans (and they were pretty stupid too, just for hanging out with those other guys).
I liked Athasian Elves and I LOVED Athasian Halflings - nothing like a bunch of cherub-faced little people coming toward you... and then you realize they are holding forks and their teeth are filed down to points.
I would never want to play a Dark Sun game (I greatly dislike Psionics), but I have to admit I stole quite a lot of the monsters and race stuff from there - great Fluff, even though the setting itself didn't grab me.
18DELTA ;)
Nope.
Por Que?
Personally, I'm not too hot on the idea of Spellscars in the Realms, and just like with that elf article and everything I have read about the Plaguewrought Lands, this new Post-Apocalyptic feeling just dosen't seem to fit in with my perception of the Realms. I am however, willing to give the new World of Abeir a chance (I'm actually glad they canned Maztica), as the newfound importance of Aberrations and the Far Realms introduces promising adventure ideas in the future.
:88E: :coolcthul :88E: :coolcthul :88E: :coolcthul :88E: :coolcthul :88E: :coolcthul 
18DELTA :D
-
18DELTA :D
Yes, soon, very soon...:coolcthul
:coolcthulMap Linky ;)
Very... un-inspiring.
Nevermind.
I personally find a plain white sheet of paper more attractive, but whatever - to each his own.
Wow...
What can one do, eh?
Actually, I want to see what it looks like in areas that have more detail - Chult and Elfharrow are low on pre-existing locations compared to more populous areas.
Chultan had much more on the 3.5 map than on the newest island map of 4e. Don't know how about Elfharrow, have not looked there till today. And then why should there be so many details on chult? It is a jungle and as I remember the text to it, it was not so well explored. It is like a the amazonas in the last centuries, most parts were unknown and even today there are would be more white spots on the map, if we would not have all the satellites.Because there is simply no way he/she was hired for their... ahem... 'talent'.
These are the ones from the FRCG, as far as I can tell. It'd be a bit strange for them to be doing previews with the wrong maps: the pages look like they're been taken straight from the book.
-Thats what I am afraid of. These maps...
18DELTA
But, even from a purely Gamer-perspective, 'pretty maps' have become the norm these days.
However, I will still find use for that one.
I printed it out and put it in my First-Aid kit - you never know when you'll need to induce vomiting. :P
I like the general idea of these elves living in rough lands. Of them entering their old home in search of their past, and that tree. But it all feels a bit hastily done. None of this lore feels fleshed out, but just a rough draft. On one hand, that gives freedom. On the other hand, I feel I could have written that myself.
I feel I could have written that myself.
Like in five seconds.
-Makes my..."need" to write and complete Elves of Faerûn that much greater.
Like in five seconds.
-Yeah? When was the last time you wrote an article for EoF, then!?
-Yeah? When was the last time you wrote an article for EoF, then!?
I'm searching for a new job, at the end of august I'm moving to another house and doing a lot of other things.
Well, he has a track record.;)
-That's putting it lightly.
I'm searching for a new job, at the end of august I'm moving to another house and doing a lot of other things.
-Excuses, excuses, excuses...
-Anyway, I remember people saying that savage Elves is cliche, or have no place, or whatever. There's plenty of savage Elves and such. The Podascar Elves, for instance, this reminded me of, a little.
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