Average Height: 5' 4" - 6' 0"
Average Weight: 130 - 170 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Elven, Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Bluff, +2 Arcana
Ancestral Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the longsword.
Dual Heritage: You can take feats that have either eladrin or tiefling as a prerequisite (as well as those specifically for fey’ri), as long as you meet any other requirements.
Trance: Rather than sleep, fey'ri enter a meditative state known as trance. You need to spend 4 hours in this state to gain the same benefits other races gain from taking a 6-hour extended rest. While in a trance, you are fully aware of your surroundings and notice approaching enemies and other events as normal.
Daemontouched: Once per encounter, you can use either the Change Shape or Flight power.
Change Shape
Fey’ri Racial Power
You alter your form to look like some other humanoid.
Encounter * Polymorph
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You can alter your physical form to take on the appearance of any Medium humanoid.
Flight
Fey’ri Racial Power
You spread your bat like wings and take to the skies.
Encounter * Move Action
Effect: you gain fly 6 (clumsy), if you are not standing on solid ground at the end of your movement you glide to the ground without taking damage.
Racial Feats
Born Flyer
Prerequisite: Fey’ri, Flight racial power
Benefit: You may use your Flight power as an at-will ability
Improved Flight
Prerequisite: Paragon, Fey’ri, Flight racial power
Benefit: Your maneuverability while flying is improved by one category
-Why do the Fey'ri have the polymorphing ability?
My thought was cause they had the Alter Self ability in 3.x and for me it was one of their defining abilities. The closest thing I see to that is the Change Shape ability Dopplegangers got in the 4e MM.
Fly 6 is a bit overpowered. I think you should add (clumsy) to it. If you want them to latter have normal flight make a feat (possibly paragon) that removes the (clumsy) tag.
I thought about that, and after hearing it mentioned again, I like the idea.
My thought was cause they had the Alter Self ability in 3.x and for me it was one of their defining abilities. The closest thing I see to that is the Change Shape ability Dopplegangers got in the 4e MM.
-Okay, I didn't know that Polymorph was now the equivalent of Alter Self.
-Okay, I didn't know that Polymorph was now the equivalent of Alter Self.
The "polymorph" part is just a keyword that shows up under the Change Shape racial power. The actual power name is called Change Shape and can be found on page 276 of the 4e MM.
Link added to 4E FR Handy Links Thread. 18DELTA :D
LOL, polymorph is Alter self in 4ED? What a joke!!! Ummmm... there's only like... a major difference between the two, lol.
You know I was going to post a snappy reply about at least reading the rules before criticizing them but why bother :rolleye2:
You know I was going to post a snappy reply about at least reading the rules before criticizing them but why bother :rolleye2:
Why bother you ask? Well, no offense, and not being argumentative, but I know quite a bit about 4ED FR and the 4ED core products, and I'm about as impressed with 4ED as I would be with a balloon trick from joe the lame clown!!
Just my two Zhents!
Why bother you ask? Well, no offense, and not being argumentative, but I know quite a bit about 4ED FR and the 4ED core products, and I'm about as impressed with 4ED as I would be with a balloon trick from joe the lame clown!!
Just my two Zhents!
Sorry, I'm honestly not trying to start fight but I have trouble reconciling the statement that you know quite a bit about the 4e rule set and still made a comment like you did. This is due to the fact that polymorph is a keyword and not a spell as it was in 4e. That's something I would have expected a person who professes to hate 4e as much as you do would have known. How can you hate something you don't fully understand?
Why bother you ask? Well, no offense, and not being argumentative, but I know quite a bit about 4ED FR and the 4ED core products, and I'm about as impressed with 4ED as I would be with a balloon trick from joe the lame clown!!
Just my two Zhents!
And that guy said 'no, there is no threadcrapping problem'.
If you have nothing to contribuate in a constructive manner, why are you posting this? Because you *are* argumenting.
I am a little uneasy about the fly speed altogether honestly... My thought would be to either do it like the githyanki, or give flight in feats, a heroic, paragon, and epic versions. Fly speeds from the base race, while fitting, are a bit game breaking. Perhaps the flight can be a power (like the githyanki) and there is a feat the increases the amount of times you can use teh power per encounter, with a certain number (say three) making the speed permanent.
I would also make the languages "Common, and Elven or Infernal"
please drop any followups on trolls
I would also make the languages "Common, and Elven or Infernal"
-I wouldn't give them Common. Fey'ri are incredibly arrogant Sun Elves, and many Sun Elves who aren't incredibly arrogant don't deign to lower themselves and learn the language of N'Tel'Quessir, so...
-I wouldn't give them Common. Fey'ri are incredibly arrogant Sun Elves, and many Sun Elves who aren't incredibly arrogant don't deign to lower themselves and learn the language of N'Tel'Quessir, so...
Even arrogant ones can realise at time that they must make practical sacrifices or compromises, or anything - heck, Shadowrun had that as a trope.
They may have learned it - if to see potential problems from 'inferior beings'. A tool, and just a second language.
While cool for NPCs, this is players... and I can also see it as fitting, but that makes the race just a pain to play.
-Be that as it may. I'm just elaborating on their mindset.
-More information on the Fey'ri can be found in Elves of Faerûn.
Even arrogant ones can realise at time that they must make practical sacrifices or compromises, or anything - heck, Shadowrun had that as a trope.
-The fact that they are arrogant is what makes them not do this.
Have you considered adding a weapon and powers listing?
This is good stuff by the way!
Language and Literacy
Fey’ri speak Elven first and foremost. Like the Sun Elves that they once were, they see other languages as affronts to their Elven sensibilities, and minimize the amount of time they need to speak these lesser languages. Fey’ri also are taught Abyssal, since that language, too, is part of their heritage. The only other language that Fey’ri do not begrudge speaking is Draconic, since it is the language of magic.
Few Fey’ri learn to speak common. Their attitude is that if a being thinks it is worthy enough to speak with a Fey’ri, they will do so in the Fey’ri’s native language. Individual Fey’ri learn to speak Gnoll, Goblin and Sylvan, since these creatures have always lived around the Fey’ri’s traditional homes. No Fey’ri speaks Celestial, since merely speaking the language actually causes them pain.
Hmm based on the readings... Elven is a must, so perhaps one of the racial perks should be that it knows three languages
perhaps we should just leave Infernal to the linguist, it says that Fey'ri are taught it, and that feat could represent training.
The big thing that still stands in my mind is the flight aspect.
18DELTA ;)
-I wouldn't give them Common. Fey'ri are incredibly arrogant Sun Elves, and many Sun Elves who aren't incredibly arrogant don't deign to lower themselves and learn the language of N'Tel'Quessir, so...
Have Fey'ri been a playable race in the past? If so, how do they interact with most people in most games?
perhaps we should just leave Infernal to the linguist, it says that Fey'ri are taught it, and that feat could represent training.
Would it work to say they know Elven, Common and one other language and leave it up to the player what that other language is? So some may choose Draconic, while others might select Infernal.
18DELTA
Fey’ri
Average Height: 5 4˝ - 6 0˝
Average Weight: 130 - 170 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares; Fly 6 (clumsy)
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Common, Elven
Skill Bonuses: +2 Bluff, +2 Arcana
Fey Origin: Your ancestors were native to the Feywild, so you are considered a fey creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Demonkin: Due to your demonic heritage, you gain a +1 racial bonus to your Will defense.
Change Shape: You can use change shape as an at-will power.
Change Shape
Fey’ri Racial Power
You alter your form to look like some other humanoid.
At-Will * Polymorph
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You can alter your physical form to take on the appearance of any Medium humanoid, including
I'm figuring on other Fey'ri abilities to be taken as Feats.
Nice writeup, but you should remove the fly speed, the designers have pushed it back to mid paragon levels and it´s just not fair to give it at level 1 for just one race. You could make it something like a glide, you get your fly speed, but you have to start and end your flight on the ground or you fall down.
The polymorph power is a bit to strong to, after all thats the changelings big thing and their version is far weaker that this, if you really want to keep it change it to body only excluding equipment, and make it 1 or 2 specific forms (sun elf female...) that are always the same - so you can mask your race but don´t become too good at it.
The change shape power was cut and pasted directly from the doppleganger player writeup power in the monster manual so it's identical to what we have for a changeling power.
Not sure how to handle flight as Fey'ri have wings. If they don't have a fly speed what do the wings do until they take a feat? Glide is a possibility. Did they include Glide in 4e? If not I'll look into writing something up.
As for languages, I thought about adding Infernal but would that be too many to start? My thought on these 4e Fey'ri is that there is very few still around and they integrate themselves (aka hide) among the populus, so learning common would be important. As for doing Infernal or Elven, I think that Fey'ri really think of themselves as Elves, so they would never choose Infernal before Elven (or even instead of Elven.) LK would have a better feal on this.
Keep the suggestion coming....
As for flight, you'll need to make them work as either a racial encounter(like githyanki), a feat (like dragonborn will have soon), or a mix with feats upgrading the encounter power (like dragonborn breath weapon).
or a mix with feats upgrading the encounter power (like dragonborn breath weapon).
I like this idea but it would give them two racial powers and giving flight as a encounter racial power seems pretty weak as they go. Any suggestions?
I was just looking at the Genasi entry in the LFR handout. Based on that I could give them something called Demonic Heritage. That could grant them Fire Resist 5 and a racial encounter power of Flight. That leaves out the Change Shape power. Not sure I like this option though.
Have Fey'ri been a playable race in the past? If so, how do they interact with most people in most games?
-Yes, yes they have stats, in Races of Faerûn. That source says they speak Common, Elven and Infernal. Races of Faerûn is not complete or very informative, however, and Elves of Faerûn goes on to augment this, with the excerpt that Serphet cited.
Not sure how to handle flight as Fey'ri have wings. If they don't have a fly speed what do the wings do until they take a feat?
-They don't necessarily have to do anything. Not all Fey'ri have wings that have to be functional. They can be vestigial wings. Many races have had descriptions of races that could have non-functional wings if the player wanted them there for flavor.
As for languages, I thought about adding Infernal but would that be too many to start? My thought on these 4e Fey'ri is that there is very few still around and they integrate themselves (aka hide) among the populus, so learning common would be important. As for doing Infernal or Elven, I think that Fey'ri really think of themselves as Elves, so they would never choose Infernal before Elven (or even instead of Elven.) LK would have a better feal on this.
-Elven is a must. This is their primary language. Abyssal (or whatever it's called now, I know a few names for languages have changed) is also commonly spoken, due to the intermingling of Demons into their lives, but wouldn't be a necessity, spoken by everyone. Same thing with Common, although less so. Perhaps offer a choice between Abyssal and Common, and call it a day?
Also going switch Racial powers to a choice of either Demonic Flight or Change Shape once per encounter. Similar to what they did with the Drow.
Let me know what you all think.
You can fly up to 6 squares, if you are not standing on solid ground at the end of your movement you glide to the ground without taking damage.
And: Whenever you are falling you can use your wings to soften the fall, calculate falling damage as if the fall was 2 squares less.
Okay, so I'm going to change the Language to Elven and EITHER Supernal/Abyssal or Common.
-What is 'Supernal'?
So if the Fey'ri were demonic in previous editions, I'd say Abyssal. If they were devilish, Supernal. Its basically a catch-all for anything that doesn't originate from the abyss, the fey-realms, or the material plane. Astral plane, hell, celestia, what have you, they all speak Supernal.
its the language of good gods and primordials, if you have a divine status you can speak it and everyone will understand you as if you were speaking their native tounge.
I think it must be more then that, as it shows up as the default language of Devils. That's where I took it from.
Like the latest change, just one more suggestion. Change the fly speed to 6 and add an effect that reduces falling damage like:
You can fly up to 6 squares, if you are not standing on solid ground at the end of your movement you glide to the ground without taking damage.
And: Whenever you are falling you can use your wings to soften the fall, calculate falling damage as if the fall was 2 squares less.
I like that idea... Done.
I'll put the second part in (about the falling damage) when I get to writing up the Glide rules.
Thanks...
I would go with supernal personally, thought perhaps the choice should be (like previously stated) abyssal or Supernal.
Either way, both languages have the words of power (DMG p. 171)
my mistake, yes supernal is angels, gods, devils, etc. while Abyssal is Demons, gnolls , sahuagin, etc.
I would go with supernal personally, thought perhaps the choice should be (like previously stated) abyssal or Supernal.
Either way, both languages have the words of power (DMG p. 171)
Yeah, I'm torn either way. Originally the Fey'ri where Demon/Elf crossbreeding descendants but with the 4e switching of some Demons/Devils, I'm not sure which way to go. LK, do you remember off hand if they even said which specific types of Demon's where involved? Was is male elf/female Demon mating, the opposite or both?
you should word the fly speed different, something like
you gain fly 6 (clumsy), if you are not standing on solid ground at the end of your movement you glide to the ground without taking damage.
and then take glide out of the speed entry.
Yeah, I'm torn either way. Originally the Fey'ri where Demon/Elf crossbreeding descendants but with the 4e switching of some Demons/Devils, I'm not sure which way to go. LK, do you remember off hand if they even said which specific types of Demon's where involved? Was is male elf/female Demon mating, the opposite or both?
I would go with devil based, since in 4e all devils have a humanoid appearance, while demons are more monstrous (no pun intended) in appearance. Now that succubi are devils, it would make sense to tie the Fey'ri to the hells as well.
I would go with devil based, since in 4e all devils have a humanoid appearance, while demons are more monstrous (no pun intended) in appearance. Now that succubi are devils, it would make sense to tie the Fey'ri to the hells as well.
I was leaning that way but I guess it would require a retcon. Also wasn't Malkazid a Devil?
I just really like the name Daemonfey.
WOuld it still fit if their ancestry was fomr Devils?On another note, should they get the trance ability like Eladrin and Drow do?
demonkin still doesn't hit me right yet...
really in the spirit of 4e and having a very modular system, demonkin should be something that can be plugged into other things and work good.
they get bloodhunt, Fireresistance, Infernal wrath
Infernal wrath is their encounter power, so we would need change shape and Glide listed like that, not simply two attributes of 'demonkin'.
what I mean by that, look at teh tiefling , which is very mechanicly similar to teh Fey'ri:
they get bloodhunt, Fireresistance, Infernal wrath
Infernal wrath is their encounter power, so we would need change shape and Glide listed like that, not simply two attributes of 'demonkin'.
Not really, as the Tieflings of 4e where a result of a curse and the Fey'ri are a direct result of "tainted" blood.
As for the attribute of what I called Demonkin, I based it off more how the Drow where listed. It could be called anything other then Demonkin and I'm open to suggestions.
I throw out "Draegloth Line", "Tainted Blood"
also as per pg 250 of the FRCG,
make Abyssal Fury a feat, and make claws a size larger for fists
ah i see! Drow are the only time I've seen that format. Hmm I think we should let Demonkin be a bit mroe vauge and let this ability be closer to the Fey'ri's nature
I throw out "Draegloth Line", "Tainted Blood"
Draegloth are something completely different then Daemonfey.
I changed the name to Daemontouched and changed the wording a bit.
Also changed Flight to it's more generic name.
why does it seem the Draegloth of 4e are tied to drow? I thought they were sun elves and had nothing to do with the drow (bloodline wise)
also as per pg 250 of the FRCG,
make Abyssal Fury a feat, and make claws a size larger for fists
Draegloth have always been tied to Drow. Daemonfey are the ones tied to Sun Elves.
also the changes are good, I defiantly like it (and may let my players use it :p )
my only change is that I'd stick closer to the drow lolthtouched wording
Daemontouched:Once per encounter, you can use X or X
perhaps:
Fey'ri Education: you learn Abyssal or Supernal
Demonic Resistance resist 5 variable, doesn't increase with level, to powerful(would need to increase with feats)
or, I'm not sure which is appropriate
Fire Resistance from the tiefling entry
Bloodhunt
and somewhere have a defense bonus.
notably they don't have a lot of other racial specific bonuses,
perhaps:
Fey'ri Education: you learn Abyssal or Supernal
Demonic Resistance resist 5 variable, doesn't increase with level, to powerful(would need to increase with feats)
or, I'm not sure which is appropriate
Fire Resistance from the tiefling entry
Bloodhunt
and somewhere have a defense bonus.
If I did that, I'd have to lose the other powers as it would bee too powerfull. I plan to add stuff like that through racial feats later.
hmm then nevermind
also the changes are good, I defiantly like it (and may let my players use it :p )
my only change is that I'd stick closer to the drow lolthtouched wording
Agreed, done...
the MM races are naturally weaker, so it may not be a good precedent to use them for races.
edit: spelling
there really sin't anything remotley overpowered yet, not the change that teh warforged went through from the MM to the dragon article.
the MM races are natrually weaker, so it may not be a good precident to use them for races.
Yeah, I'm actually focusing on the Drow and Genasi entries from the FRPG preview that came out in the LFR Preview. Both are getting the full race treatment like the 4e PHB. I agree the MM races seemed a bit underpowered.
18DELTA ;)
Yeah, I'm torn either way. Originally the Fey'ri where Demon/Elf crossbreeding descendants but with the 4e switching of some Demons/Devils, I'm not sure which way to go. LK, do you remember off hand if they even said which specific types of Demon's where involved? Was is male elf/female Demon mating, the opposite or both?
-The line began when House Dlardraegeth bred with Succubi. Since Succubi are female, that'd have to mean that male Sun Elves bred with them. Since then, to continue the propogation of Fey'ri, other Demons and other Sun Elves (both male and female) were..."used".
Also wasn't Malkazid a Devil?
-Yes, yes he was. He was the secret patron of the Vyshaanti. It was because of this that Sarya Dlardraegeth sought him out, and it was her willingness to submit herself to him, for his knowledge, was what made him accept.
now so I think that was one of the reasons he was killed in Rich's Trilogy. :embarrass 18DELTA ;)
-According to Champions of Ruin he was a Fallen Solar, Exiled Archdevil, and current Yugoloth Lord. Yugoloths are Demons
18DELTA ;)
-The Last Mythal trilogy didn't know whether or not it was coming or going, in relation to Demons, Devils and Yugoloths.
-It's a shame Big Mal was killed, though. What a repository of ancient Elven knowledge...Sure, bad knowledge, but knowledge none the less.
-It's a shame Big Mal was killed, though. What a repository of ancient Elven knowledge...Sure, bad knowledge, but knowledge none the less.
Yeah I wished he kept him around. So, with Succubus being retcon'd into Devils, what does that mean to the 4e Fey'ri? Should they now be considered descendant from Devils?
-The Last Mythal trilogy didn't know whether or not it was coming or going, in relation to Demons, Devils and Yugoloths.
Yeah, wonder now looking back if that was due to the musical chairs which where going to be happening in 4e ti fiends. That's stretching it a bit though.
-According to Champions of Ruin he was a Fallen Solar, Exiled Archdevil, and current Yugoloth Lord. Yugoloths are Demons
18DELTA ;)
Yeah, it gets confusing. I wish they hadn't messed with the whole Demon/Devil/Yugoloth thing.
Yeah I wished he kept him around. So, with Succubus being retcon'd into Devils, what does that mean to the 4e Fey'ri? Should they now be considered descendant from Devils?
-I have no clue. I'd say no, since they were never intended to be, but the evidence clearly against that, with Succubi being Devils.
Yeah, wonder now looking back if that was due to the musical chairs which where going to be happening in 4e ti fiends. That's stretching it a bit though.
-No, because the novels were published in 2004, 2005 and 2006, meaning that they were written a little before each respective release. According to the designers, work on 4e didn't even begin until 2006.
Not knowing what someone is saying or writing isn't a situation I can see a Fey'ri putting themselves in by choice, since avoiding being fluent in Common altogether leaves them in an unfavorable position when dealing with the "lower races" in any capacity. It's just a tactically sound decision to learn it, regardless of whether they felt it was demeaning to use the language or not.
This has probably been covered already, but IMO, the Fey'ri are far too savvy to avoid learning Common altogether, no matter how aloof & haughty people might wanna make them.
-Again, this is against the Elven mindset. N'Tel'Quessir are beneath them. If an N'Tel'Quessir believes itself important enough to garner your attention, it is going to learn to speak your language, not the other way around.
If I was playing in your campaign, my lowborn N'Tel'Quessir PCs would have tons of fun warning all Fey'ri, "I'm going to stick a sword in you, now" in Common, right before stabbing them right in their smug, self-important faces. Seems like a much better way of getting their attention & it's much faster than learning Elven, anyways.
In case you can't tell, I just think that even with all their Sun Elf haugtiness & the superiority complex that goes with it, after the events laid out in the Last Mythal series & the devastation their ill-fated war caused to their ranks, even the most pompous Fey'ri still left kicking would be smart enough to realize that they need to get with the program. If they hadn't already, they'd learn Common in order to facilitate gathering more intelligence about the world at large & their numerous enemies, rather than holding on to some outdated "We're better than you, so speak Elven or don't talk to us at all" mantra.
...
Anyhoo, for what it's worth to Barthalas, I like what I see - aside from the languages bit, obviously.
Sounds pretty pompous to me. Elves & Fey'ri must all be brilliant tacticians in your version of the Realms, just so long as their enemies are polite enough to speak & write only in Elven. Which I'm sure they all must, since the elves & Fey'ri insist on it, & we all know how polite orcs can be about that sorta thing.
If I was playing in your campaign, my lowborn N'Tel'Quessir PCs would have tons of fun warning all Fey'ri, "I'm going to stick a sword in you, now" in Common, right before stabbing them right in their smug, self-important faces. Seems like a much better way of getting their attention & it's much faster than learning Elven, anyways.
-I don't have a "version" of the Forgotten Realms. My "version" is canon.
What you're saying about not learning Common would work well flavor-wise with members of the Eldreth Veluuthra & their elitism, but how you apply your opinion of Fey'ri to the issue & it somehow becomes "canon" (in spite of written rules material that suggests otherwise) is completely beyond me.
I would make the fey'ri a race of devilblooded-eladrin that were created by the intermingling of succubi and sunelves (canon lore), so ‘daemonfey' is (now in 4e) rather a misnomer of the Realms (as probably not everyone in the Realms can distinguish devils from demons or their spawn on sight) that stuck nonetheless in the Common tongue.
House Dlardrageth itself is the difficult part:
Sarya was the child of a Balor (still demon), but that could be easily retconned as the Pitfiend does look more humanoid/ balorlike now than in 3e.
Her sons were fathered by a Vrock and a (probably male) Marilith (also both still demons), but i guess one can probably also find a devil-species that sport feathered wings or is fourarmed.
All this would also better fit to Malkizid who was an Archdevil for some time.
Devil-blood would also make the fey'ri the elven equivalent of tieflings again.
Besides the elven tongue fey'ri should speak infernal.
Best wishes
Lirdolin
After some brief introductions, he lays out his PC's compelling backstory, & then he suddenly drops a bomb on the rest of the group:
"Oh, & by the way... with the exception of the green-haired archery ranger over there, my character thinks he's better than all of you. As such, he insists that you all have to learn Elven & only speak to him in his language - otherwise he won't bother to pay attention to anything you're saying."
Oh yes, I'm sure his humble & reasonable request will be well-received.
Why are we even still talking about this? Since this is a thread about running Fey'ri as a PC race, let's put aside flavor reasons for NOT giving Fey'ri Common as a base language & just think for a moment about how this "No Common" idea would play out when Johnny sits down at the game table with the shiny new character sheet for his Fey'ri character.
After some brief introductions, he lays out his PC's compelling backstory, & then he suddenly drops a bomb on the rest of the group:
"Oh, & by the way... with the exception of the green-haired archery ranger over there, my character thinks he's better than all of you. As such, he insists that you all have to learn Elven & only speak to him in his language - otherwise he won't bother to pay attention to anything you're saying."
Oh yes, I'm sure his humble & reasonable request will be well-received.
It made for a great part of the story in Lost with Jin for the first couple seasons making no effort to learn English, and not knowing that Sun knew it already. So as a roleplaying element it has potential.
"Oh, & by the way... with the exception of the green-haired archery ranger over there, my character thinks he's better than all of you. As such, he insists that you all have to learn Elven & only speak to him in his language - otherwise he won't bother to pay attention to anything you're saying."
Oh yes, I'm sure his humble & reasonable request will be well-received.
-This is supposed to be abnormal?
-This is supposed to be abnormal?
Absolutely, it's abnormal. After all, D&D is a cooperative game & most gamers actually aren't antisocial twits living in their parents' basement, no wonder what the stereotype might imply.
Running a character that requires almost every other player to tweak their own PCs in some way is just not cool when it's done for no other reason than to indulge one player's opinion about a race's fluff. You'd basically be penalizing almost everyone else at the table by forcing their PCs to learn & use Elven just to facilitate communication between them & the one Fey'ri PC. When it's only being done because their fluff dictates that they're too much of a bigot to use the one language that virtually everyone in the world understands, it's just not something the other players are likely gonna jump all over.
Once again, learning the languages of your enemies & allies is also a sound tactical choice, whether you decide to actually speak it or not. It would only be a matter of time before the Fey'ri missed some crucial tidbit of information simply because it was expressed in Common, as I doubt many DMs are gonna houserule that every NPC & intelligent monster in the Realms suddenly uses only Elven. Worse yet, one of the other characters might tire of saying, "Incoming fireball!" exclusively in Elven for the sake of the Fey'ri that can't be bothered to learn a language that everyone else in the party understands. Accidents happen, but I bet they'll occur more often if the player running the Fey'ri really plays up the "I'm better than you" attitude at the table.
Fireball mishaps aside, if you do choose to take your roleplaying to the point that you expect other players to cater to your PC's fluff, you're practically handing the other players a perfectly valid in-game reason for them to change things up. They're probably not obligated to play a certain character no matter what the other PCs in the party act like, so they'll eventually either kick your Fey'ri PC to the curb or even disband the adventuring party & just roll up new characters. After all, adventurers aren't supposed to act like doormats, so I could see the dwarf fighter or the tiefling warlock in the group seeking greener pastures than a life spent dungeon-delving with a snooty Fey'ri looking down his nose at them all the time. It wouldn't take long before somebody said, "It's him or me."
I'm not against a person opting out of common, but to say all fey'ri must spend a feat to learn common... is ******.
I hadn't even thought of that side of it yet. I happened to really like playing Fey'ri in 3rd edition (without the snobbery, obviously), & having to waste resources to get my Fey'ri PC "up to speed" by learning Common would really irritate me.
Absolutely, it's abnormal. After all, D&D is a cooperative game & most gamers actually aren't antisocial twits living in their parents' basement, no wonder what the stereotype might imply.
Running a character that requires almost every other player to tweak their own PCs in some way is just not cool when it's done for no other reason than to indulge one player's opinion about a race's fluff.
-This, I disagree with. This is using metagame knowledge to make up/tailor the character.
-This, I disagree with. This is using metagame knowledge to make up/tailor the character.
The quotes seem to have gotten screwed up at some point & I'm not sure which of the sentences you disagree with, but either way, your post makes about as much sense to me as "Roger that, Yankee Doodle floppy disk."
D&D is a game where you work together. Therefore, it stands to reason that it's not a good move to intentionally create a race in a way that negates proper communication between party members unless one side or the other burns a feat to learn a language. Unless somebody takes Linguist or they drag along an interpreter, the PCs are basically reduced to acting things out or drawing on dungeon walls in order to get anything done as a group. Metagaming concerns be damned, it's simply a stupid idea.
BTW, am I supposed to assume that you suddenly agree with everything else I've written on the subject, or are you just nitpicking at this point?
The quotes seem to have gotten screwed up at some point & I'm not sure which of the sentences you disagree with, but either way, your post makes about as much sense to me as "Roger that, Yankee Doodle floppy disk."
D&D is a game where you work together. Therefore, it stands to reason that it's not a good move to intentionally create a race in a way that negates proper communication between party members unless one side or the other burns a feat to learn a language. Unless somebody takes Linguist or they drag along an interpreter, the PCs are basically reduced to acting things out or drawing on dungeon walls in order to get anything done as a group. Metagaming concerns be damned, it's simply a stupid idea.
BTW, am I supposed to assume that you suddenly agree with everything else I've written on the subject, or are you just nitpicking at this point?
D&D is a Roleplaying game, not a cooperative effort to achieve a goal. Many of the best games I have been in featured party conflict as the norm. If I choose to play a non-conformist character, that is my right.
And even if your character doesn't speak common, odds are at least one person in the group will speak Elvish, so the language barrier will rarely be a real issue.
D&D is a Roleplaying game, not a cooperative effort to achieve a goal.
You get a shiny star for pointing out to the rest of us that D&D is a roleplaying game, but I disagree about not cooperating. While it's not a necessity, anyone can see that the game's specifically designed for players to work together as a group. If you said that any more than 5% of the campaigns being played routinely pit players against each other as opposed to having them function as a cohesive unit, I'd have to suggest that you're nuts.
Many of the best games I have been in featured party conflict as the norm.
Congratulations, but that doesn't mean that your norm is THE norm. Anyone can still have a good day at work even if they can't stand their co-workers, & some people actually thrive on stress & conflict - but the truth is that most of us hate it.
If I choose to play a non-conformist character, that is my right.
Power to you. Just remember that it's also everyone else's right to tell you to take your books & your dice & go home when they get tired of the brooding loner non-conformist bit.
This isn't about conformity in the first place, though. It's not about wearing the same armor that all the trendy adventurers are wearing this season, nor is it about "fitting in" with the rest of the party. Characters in an adventuring party don't choose to learn Common as a way of being one big happy family; it's simply a given that EVERYONE knows the language. It's even written right on pg 32 of the PHB that "all races speak Common." So unless you really think illiteracy is the new cool, there's no reason to take Common away from a PC race (& yes, unless you're always adventuring in places where everything's conveniently written in Elven, you would be pretty much illiterate, since the vast majority of the writing you'd come across would be in Common or some other language you didn't know).
And even if your character doesn't speak common, odds are at least one person in the group will speak Elvish, so the language barrier will rarely be a real issue.
Actually, the odds are against you. It's a lock if your party has an elf, half-elf or eladrin, sure. But if not, without taking the Linguist feat, dwarves & dragonborn can't learn Elven at all, & the rest of the races in the PHB would have to choose Elven as their lone optional language. But you can't guarantee that they'll choose Elven, & even if they do, there's the question of whether or not they always want to get paired up with the Fey'ri that hates their guts just so he doesn't walk into the ladies' room at the local tavern like he did last time.
Sounds like loads of fun to me, but hey, at least the guy playing the Fey'ri feels cool, right?
1. The implied intent may be cooperative, but the implied intent is also heroic, so I should also play only good guys? As for the number of campaigns that pit characters against each other, I didn't say it was the intent of the campaign, just the result of roleplaying our characters the way we described them. Especially true when you have neutral and evilish characters, and less than lawful rogues, mixing with paladins.
2. Even in the most happy and cooperative workplaces there is backstabbing, gossiping and politics. No matter how many people are smiling at you and chatting peacefully. There are a few looking to either pull you down, or use you to further their own career.
3. So I want to play a mage, but the party needs a thief, then I should be made to play a thief, or just go home? Why would I want to play with a group that wasn't respectful of my style, as I should be of theirs (and so far no one has ever asked me to leave a game).
4. I have never played a game where at least one person didn't speak elvish, or some shared language with the other characters. (Too many elven-bootlickers out there). Also in the realms there are regional languages, so there are no garauntees that the men's room sign would be in common. It might be in Alzhedo in Calimshan or Amn, Chondathan in Cormyr, and Illuskan in Luskan, unless you are saying that everyone in the Realms uses common primarily? I don't believe this to be the case, only adventurers, traveling merchants and those who had to deal often with foreigners would make an effort, everyone else would speak the local language. And not having at lest one character who speaks Elvish and can translate for the others would be foolishness given the number of Elven ruins to be explored in Faerun.
5. your response to my post borders on insulting, and had nothing to do with the thread in question, simply pointing out the rule that all character's speak Common would have been enough. And even that falls before the first rule of the game, to have fun. If playing a character that has communications issues is a fun idea to them, and the rest of the party doesn't disagree, then there is no problem.
Ok. Point by point.
1. The implied intent may be cooperative, but the implied intent is also heroic, so I should also play only good guys? As for the number of campaigns that pit characters against each other, I didn't say it was the intent of the campaign, just the result of roleplaying our characters the way we described them. Especially true when you have neutral and evilish characters, and less than lawful rogues, mixing with paladins.
The problem I have isn't that some players want to play an anti-hero, or even an evil one. It's that I don't agree with a racial feature stipulating that your PC is way uncooperative to the point that he expects any of the other players to burn a feat in order to get the party's communication level back to status quo. Big difference between that & say, the party rogue making a habit of "borrowing" the paladin's holy symbol right before prayer time every day as a way of driving the stuffy paladin nuts.
2. Even in the most happy and cooperative workplaces there is backstabbing, gossiping and politics. No matter how many people are smiling at you and chatting peacefully. There are a few looking to either pull you down, or use you to further their own career.
That's pretty cynical, but I guess I can't deny the possibility. Yes, we have social misfits among us IRL, but we don't go out of our way to make rules that cater to these wonderful people. So why do it at the game table? After a week of working surrounded by backstabbers & gossips, I'd rather avoid more of the same at the game table.
3. So I want to play a mage, but the party needs a thief, then I should be made to play a thief, or just go home? Why would I want to play with a group that wasn't respectful of my style, as I should be of theirs (and so far no one has ever asked me to leave a game).
This isn't about wanting to play a mage when the rest of the players think the party needs a thief, but if you did make a habit of playing whatever you wanted regardless of party needs, I'd say that you'd be the one not being respectful of everyone elses' style, not the other way around. Just my $.02 on that.
4. I have never played a game where at least one person didn't speak elvish, or some shared language with the other characters. (Too many elven-bootlickers out there). Also in the realms there are regional languages, so there are no garauntees that the men's room sign would be in common. It might be in Alzhedo in Calimshan or Amn, Chondathan in Cormyr, and Illuskan in Luskan, unless you are saying that everyone in the Realms uses common primarily? I don't believe this to be the case, only adventurers, traveling merchants and those who had to deal often with foreigners would make an effort, everyone else would speak the local language. And not having at lest one character who speaks Elvish and can translate for the others would be foolishness given the number of Elven ruins to be explored in Faerun.
Your experiences with at least one player speaking Elven are situational, but it begs the question as to whether every game you've played ALSO had at least one guy itching to work alongside the player who claims he's above speaking the language that's so prevalent in the world that the designers simply called it Common. The restroom door bit was just a joke, but this isn't about Fey'ri not knowing Chondathan, or even if it's used more than Common in some places - regardless of regional languages, Common is still the fallback language you can expect to see used when regional languages aren't shared, & as such, I maintain that every PC should know it.
5. your response to my post borders on insulting, and had nothing to do with the thread in question, simply pointing out the rule that all character's speak Common would have been enough. And even that falls before the first rule of the game, to have fun. If playing a character that has communications issues is a fun idea to them, and the rest of the party doesn't disagree, then there is no problem.
Sorry 'bout the insults. I get a little snarky when I'm still awake at 3 or 4 AM due to a bad case of heartburn. If you wanna play a PC with some sort of disability or communication issues, that's fine by me, but it should be done on a case-by-case basis, not made standard for an entire race. I've made it pretty clear by now that I have a problem with removing Common for the entire Fey'ri race, & no small part of that is the fact that Fey'ri had Common as a base language in previous editions of the game, despite the claims of some here that the opposite is canon.
Just a thought, Drizzt in Sojourn does not initially speak common, he had to learn it as part of his acclimation to the surface world, and had to use Goblin (IIRC) to communicate with Montolio (spelling?) at first. So a Fey'ri who has to spend a feat to learn the language would make sense in story terms, as part of turning away from their upbringing and joining the larger realms as a productive member of society rather than a monster. Just as Drow used to have to take Daylight acclimation to adventure in sunlight.
Good point about Drizzt (speaking Undercommon), but it would be an even better point if it actually applied to Fey'ri, who already know Common (at least according to the rules of 3e D&D). But he never did have Daylight Adaptation, so it seems drow like him could take their penalties & still get by without having to spend a feat. Incidentally, I wonder if Drizzt's 3e stat block reflects the fact that he had to burn a couple skill points on Speak Language to communicate on the surface or if that & his eyesight issues were just handwaved away; however, I'm not gonna break it down just to argue about THAT next.
Aaaand... that's my cue to finally stop beating this dead horse & offer to leave this at "Let's agree to disagree" since my wife will likely divorce me if I insist on monopolizing the family computer any further just to keep this going. For the sake of getting this thread back on track, I'm gonna bow out & just enter Lurk mode from this point on.
Okay, thanks for the input. I think I'm done for now. I added Ancestral Weapon Proficiency: Longsword and settled on Elven and Common for the languages.
Good call on the longsword proficiency, & obviously I'm on board with giving 'em Common.
BTW, sorry for my part in draggin' your thread through the mud for a bit, there.
Good call on the longsword proficiency, & obviously I'm on board with giving 'em Common.
BTW, sorry for my part in draggin' your thread through the mud for a bit, there.
Oh sure, make me the bad guy
I to must apologize, I was pushing more in a roleplaying direction than a playable class direction and allowed the idea to get ahead of me. This is a great take on the race. Good Luck. (And check out a few of my 4e ideas and tell me what you think.)
Changed Fey Origin to Dual Heritage.
Anyways the tiefling move is a good one, not because fey'ri are like tieflings, because the concept is the same.
Pretty happy to see this.. Disappointed not to see them in 4e yet. Anyone know if an official version is supposed to come out?
No rumor or anything , iirc, we have all the 4e FR material (non D&Di) thats going to come out.
No rumor or anything , iirc, we have all the 4e FR material (non D&Di) thats going to come out.
I suggested to Rich that this would make a good DDI article ad he seemed to agree.
Fey’ri
Average Height: 5' 4" - 6' 0"
Average Weight: 130 - 170 lb.
Ability Scores: +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence
Size: Medium
Speed: 6 squares
Vision: Low-light
Languages: Elven, Common
Skill Bonuses: +2 Bluff, +2 Arcana
Ancestral Weapon Proficiency: You gain proficiency with the longsword.
Dual Heritage: You can take feats that have either eladrin or tiefling as a prerequisite (as well as those specifically for fey’ri), as long as you meet any other requirements.
Abyssal Will: You gain a +1 racial bonus to your Will defense. In addition, you gain a +5 racial bonus to saving throws against charm effects.
Fey Origin: Your ancestors were native to the Feywild, so you are considered a fey creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Trance: Rather than sleep, fey'ri enter a meditative state known as trance. You need to spend 4 hours in this state to gain the same benefits other races gain from taking a 6-hour extended rest. While in a trance, you are fully aware of your surroundings and notice approaching enemies and other events as normal.
Daemontouched: Once per encounter, you can use either the Change Shape or Flight power.
Change Shape
Fey’ri Racial Power
You alter your form to look like some other humanoid.
Encounter * Polymorph
Minor Action Personal
Effect: You can alter your physical form to take on the appearance of any Medium humanoid.
Flight
Fey’ri Racial Power
You spread your bat like wings and take to the skies.
Encounter * Move Action
Effect: You gain fly 6 (clumsy), if you are not standing on solid ground at the end of your movement you glide to the ground without taking damage.
Racial Feats
Born Flyer
Prerequisite: Fey’ri, Flight racial power
Benefit: You may use your Flight power as an at-will ability
Improved Flight
Prerequisite: Paragon, Fey’ri, Flight racial power
Benefit: Your maneuverability while flying is improved by one category
I love this Fey'ri build, I've made some changes to the one above added a few things from the new thread, but all in all this is the perfect Fey'ri and I think it fits nicely with the 4E FR and Rules so far!
I hope my DM will let me try it some time... :D
Having to bump this one. Just spent a while looking for it again. I might suggest changing the change shape to at-will. If that's good enough for the changeling... it's good enough for the Fey'Ri
Having to bump this one. Just spent a while looking for it again. I might suggest changing the change shape to at-will. If that's good enough for the changeling... it's good enough for the Fey'Ri
Yeah, but changelings dont fly!
No, but they do get a minor action feint once per encounter.
Still i think flying trumps that
Not enough to not make the change shape at-will. The changeling power isn't that strong to begin with. Changing shape is nice and all, but doesn't mean anything if you can't speak the language. Considering changelings get no bonus languages...
Not enough to not make the change shape at-will. The changeling power isn't that strong to begin with. Changing shape is nice and all, but doesn't mean anything if you can't speak the language. Considering changelings get no bonus languages...
True, I think i might get rid of the fllight, That seems to be more of a paragon ability, still, its not like they have overland flight or anything. I always liked the Fey'ri and i could definalty see them being a PC race. I was thinking of doing something like bloodline feats or something. I like the tieflings and devas, but they seem more focused on humans, demonic or angelic humans. Instead of making a race for angelic elves, demonic elves, demonic halflings, angelic halflings, etc, you could just have some feats that grant some tiefling or deva like powers. You could do the same thing for Half dragons too. Something ive been thinkin. Still the Fey Ri were really more like thier own race as opposed to just being elves with a demonic template or something.
They used to be my favorite race. Quite upset that they didn't get any love in 4e. Still, might ask me DM if he'll let me use this We're kinda going through some group changes since we added 3 people to the group. Was a 3 person party. Now that we're 6, he's gonna let us change to what we want, since we had characters built for a 3 person party. Might swap out int for cha if I do ask him
Agree. They're not the result of an ancient curse.. they're bred for a purpose... and have their own society.
Yeah they're definatly kool. Theyre bad ass, and they got a kool back story. Dont know why they didnt get no 4e love. Hopefully they'll feature in an upcoming Dragon article or something. On a side note i hope they do something with the Saurials too, they never got no love in any eddition.
House Dragdeloth were not fey'ri - they were daemonfey. They were at least half demon - breeding with balors, glazebru, vrocks, etc.
Fey'ri were followers who bred with succubi and incubi after Sarya and the other Dragdeloths were imprisoned, and are at least 1 generation removed from their demonic parentage.
All demons involved were Ta'anri and therefor only Abyssal would make sense as their supernatural language.
edit: wow, I also now realize this thread is over 6 months old! hah, sorry, I came across it in a search
I only read up to like page 7 but wanted to clarify a couple things for ya'll:
House Dragdeloth were not fey'ri - they were daemonfey. They were at least half demon - breeding with balors, glazebru, vrocks, etc.
Fey'ri were followers who bred with succubi and incubi after Sarya and the other Dragdeloths were imprisoned, and are at least 1 generation removed from their demonic parentage.
All demons involved were Ta'anri and therefor only Abyssal would make sense as their supernatural language.
edit: wow, I also now realize this thread is over 6 months old! hah, sorry, I came across it in a search
Needed a good bump though.
The spells used by them in 3ed could be adapted into attacks with similar themes in their classes, or manipulating the bonuses to abilities to fit classes (I think arcane powers and psionic powers would be best, perhaps a charisma bonus for definate).
Just my thoughts.