Now, I know a lot about The Realms, having played around the Sword Coast and The North for years (litterally), but for a reason or another, at that time, the Elven history and Elves in general was not what appealed to me, I focused on Human nations, which I know a lot about.
Now, after DMing for 20 years straight, I'm taking a break and will be playing an elf avenger.
I'm seeking more info on Sevarash, and a little help on how to create a unique and interesting character linked to him, because after this campaign of a couple of months, I might not play again for a few years.
I know of Sevarash from the 3rd ed Campaign setting and Faiths and Pantheons, but alas, I have no access to older 2nd ed material.... So a few bits I get, like they do not laugh or smile because there is nothing to laugh about while there are still Drow (or enemies of the elves) alive. Bits and pieces....
To start with a simple question, what would you recommend me if I want to know more about the deity, his link to the Seldarine, and the general disposition of his Faith?
Thanks.
I think in 4th ed Sevarash is now an exarch to Corellon.
Would it be too far fetched to see Sevarash as the exarch of vengeance of Corellon and the Seldarine in general, in a way that, while I generally worship Corellon, it is Sevarash that guides my blade as an avenger? That he sends me on quests of gives me visions about atrocities done to elves and want me to right the wrongs elves suffered...
To start with a simple question, what would you recommend me if I want to know more about the deity, his link to the Seldarine, and the general disposition of his Faith?
Shame you don't have access to Demihuman Deities; it's brilliant. BTW, it's Shevarash.
Shevarash was originally a mortal who battled the drow, but was slain. His hatred for drow persisted in death, and he wished to be the instrument of the drow people's end. Fenmarel petitioned Corellon to raise Shevarash to godhood, which he did. Shevarash became a demigod devoted to crusades, vengeance, oaths, and slaughtering the drow.
His relationships with the other Seldarine members are pretty simple. Fenmarel has his back, and Corellon has no major qualms about his presence (else he wouldn't have raised him). The other Seldarine are ambivalent. Some of them frown upon how cold-hearted and stern the Black Archer can be; he's far from merry, and makes most of the others uncomfortable. That being said, they're still all allies under Corellon, and though they may not accept Shevarash for who he is, they tolerate him.
He's on decent terms with Shar; even if he's not evil, that should tip you off to how CN he really is.
As for his mortal faithful, they're a pretty harsh bunch. Laughter and joy are basically non-existent in his faith. What matters is promoting the Seldarine's might (because even the gods who disagree with Shevarash are better than Lolth) and the true People, and wiping out the drow. Followers of Shevarash are expected to be skilled in combat, so that they can lead the charge against the children of Lolth. They aren't sociable, and they don't listen to their kin who say that Shevarash's ways are too brutal.
I think in 4th ed Sevarash is now an exarch to Corellon.
Correct.
Would it be too far fetched to see Sevarash as the exarch of vengeance of Corellon and the Seldarine in general, in a way that, while I generally worship Corellon, it is Sevarash that guides my blade as an avenger? That he sends me on quests of gives me visions about atrocities done to elves and want me to right the wrongs elves suffered...
That's not far fetched at all. You don't have to pray to Corellon at all if you don't want to, even if the new way of doing things says Corellon grants Shevarash his powers. Though elves typically revere the entire Seldarine, many still acknowledge a favorite; you only need worship Corellon as much as you want. And yes, it would be Shevarash sending you visions, guiding your hand, etc., even if you accepted the idea that Shevarash is only as powerful as Corellon allows him to be.
Shame on me...
LordManshoon, you are very helpful thank you.
I once had Deities and Demigods in my hands in the used-books section at my FLGS... I now regret having not spent 8$ on this book..... ah... shame on me again...!
I will work a bit more on my background.... do you think a follower of Shevarash can somehow fit in a campaign where the main main enemy is not necessarily Drow.... but commited atrocities against elves?
Again thanks for your input. appreciated.
I will work a bit more on my background.... do you think a follower of Shevarash can somehow fit in a campaign where the main main enemy is not necessarily Drow.... but commited atrocities against elves?
Certainly. You could just say that over the past century, other groups have become more antagonistic towards the elves, and acknowledge the "redemption" of the dark elves, which transformed a number of drow into dark elves, the form drow originally had before the Descent. Shevarash's clergy would have adapted to target and combat not only drow, but any people, group, or individual who threatens the Elves. The new mindset could basically be: Anyone who takes up a blade or spell against Corellon's children is no better than a drow. So, the followers of Shevarash would stand against anyone who seeks to harm the elves, spreading out to root out threats of any race and color.
It was always my understanding that it was Fenmarel who raised Shevarash, period. Corellon had nothing to do with it outside of allowing the useless twerp to join the Seldarine.
Bah, 2e Seldarine members. Let's go back to the good old days of Corellon Larethian, Rillifane Rallathil, Deep Sashelas, Labelas Enoreth, Hanali Celani, Solonor Thelandira, Erevan Ilesere and Aerdrie Faenya(And technically Ye'Cind but he's Greyhawk-only). None of this Fenmarel Mestarine, Sehanine Moonbow, Angharradh, Shevarash nonsense. *shakes fist*
This is now a thread about how almost every member of the Seldarine has a three-syllable name.
It was always my understanding that it was Fenmarel who raised Shevarash, period. Corellon had nothing to do with it outside of allowing the great hero to join the Seldarine.
Hm. Perhaps I'm crossing information, then.
And this topic is still on track, so don't try to derail it, hater of Shevarash.
The OP's request for aid is worth contributing to; don't kill the good thing we have going.
I'm not derailing it, Shevarash has a three-syllable name too. :P
Followers of Shevarash...
You don't know what mercy or compassion are. Something burned you, and burned you *bad*, probably the drow but possibly something else, and you've given your heart over entirely to hate and vengance. Other elves worry about you and whether or not someone like you can ever know the joy and peace of Arvandor, but you don't care. All you care about is killing every drow/whatever dead. Moderation? Pah. Considering the circumstances? Forget that. Just like your god swore when drow killed his family, you've sworn never to laugh or even smile again. You have no sense of humour, you've purged it from yourself. Your life is nothing but death and hate and your own personal despair. You're a broken, ruined individual entirely beyond hope and eternally on the verge of becoming every bit as horrible as that which you despise. You stare into the Abyss, and the Abyss stares back. Hard.
...Yeah and this is exactly why I hate Shevarash and his followers.
Bah, 2e Seldarine members. Let's go back to the good old days of Corellon Larethian, Rillifane Rallathil, Deep Sashelas, Labelas Enoreth, Hanali Celani, Solonor Thelandira, Erevan Ilesere and Aerdrie Faenya(And technically Ye'Cind but he's Greyhawk-only). None of this Fenmarel Mestarine, Sehanine Moonbow, Angharradh, Shevarash nonsense. *shakes fist*
There was more than that. For awhile there they way always coming up with new members of the Seldarine in Dragon magazine. Although I guess most of these would all be Greyhawk specific too. I cant for the life of me recall any of these other Elven deities, but I remember that one of them was an Elven goddess of magic.
It was always my understanding that it was Fenmarel who raised Shevarash, period. Corellon had nothing to do with it outside of allowing the useless twerp to join the Seldarine.
Bah, 2e Seldarine members. Let's go back to the good old days of Corellon Larethian, Rillifane Rallathil, Deep Sashelas, Labelas Enoreth, Hanali Celani, Solonor Thelandira, Erevan Ilesere and Aerdrie Faenya(And technically Ye'Cind but he's Greyhawk-only). None of this Fenmarel Mestarine, Sehanine Moonbow, Angharradh, Shevarash nonsense. *shakes fist*
This is now a thread about how almost every member of the Seldarine has a three-syllable name.
As to Corellon's consent being all Shevarash has, well, I'd ask what the hell else he might need to be considered part of the Seldarine?
Oh, for Silversword, and some of the other members (specifically) included in the Seldarine with 2e's Elves of Evermeet include:
Angharradh (Greater)
Avachel (Demi)
Kethryllia Amarillis (Hero)
Khalreshaar (Demi)
Lashrael & Felarathael (both Demi)
Shevarash (Demi)
One could probably make a case for the deities like Bear, Eagle, and Company being included as a sort of subset of the Seldarine...
I'm not derailing it, Shevarash has a three-syllable name too. :P
Followers of Shevarash...
You don't know what mercy or compassion are. Something burned you, and burned you *bad*, probably the drow but possibly something else, and you've given your heart over entirely to hate and vengance. Other elves worry about you and whether or not someone like you can ever know the joy and peace of Arvandor, but you don't care. All you care about is killing every drow/whatever dead. Moderation? Pah. Considering the circumstances? Forget that. Just like your god swore when drow killed his family, you've sworn never to laugh or even smile again. You have no sense of humour, you've purged it from yourself. Your life is nothing but death and hate and your own personal despair. You're a broken, ruined individual entirely beyond hope and eternally on the verge of becoming every bit as horrible as that which you despise. You stare into the Abyss, and the Abyss stares back. Hard.
...Yeah and this is exactly why I hate Shevarash and his followers.
And that is an interesting take on the subject. Thank you.
I am not looking for favorable opinions only, I stay objective and really appreciate your take on him.
I am no fanboy (although the term is a bit too negative, let's say fan), and that is why I am seeking help. I may end up choosing another deity or strengthen my choice of him by reading this thread, interesting views, thank you all.
What I am trying to accomplish is to integrate de "avenging" part of Shevarash into my avenger character, although if you fellow were to recommend another deity from the Seldarine that fits, I am open to suggestions.
Note that this does not impact my opinion that elves are some of the most evil creatures in this or any other omniverse, and that its stated solely within the context of the oh-so-wrong goodly alignment they've often been portrayed with in the Realms.
Where?
Lashrael and Felatwhatever are Solars, not demigods. They're sometimes incorrectly regarded as such, but they're not, just servants of Corellon.
Hero/quasigods also don't really count as they too are not truly gods.
Yuir totems are only members of the Seldarine in the sense of most of them being absorbed by members of the Seldarine.
Dragon members of the Seldarine, most of them are stupid, a couple aren't bad. None of them past the initial batch from Dragon 60 have appeared in the Realms however - The list I made earlier is the Seldarine as listed for the original 1e Forgotten Realms.
If you want to get really purist, the Seldarine is Corellon, Rillifane, Sashelas, Labelas and Hanali. :P
In 1e? No. Just the 1e 'core' Seldarine as found in D&Dg/UA. (Come to think of it, I think most of the later Dragon members of the Seldarine were written up during 2e, but I'd have to check.) Shevarash and Angharradh were 2e inventions like Fenmarel Mestarine and Sehanine Moonbow.
As I do not have access to 1ed sources, this is very helpful.
I managed to find the 2ed FR hardcover book (Forgotten realms adventure?), and it has a bit more info into it. I wish I could get my hand Deities and Demigods.....
Please carry on
It looks like the Vault is down also...
-Yeah...I uploaded it elsewhere, so I don't have to worry about that anymore.
Lashrael and Felatwhatever are Solars, not demigods. They're sometimes incorrectly regarded as such, but they're not, just servants of Corellon.
Hero/quasigods also don't really count as they too are not truly gods.
If you want to get really purist, the Seldarine is Corellon, Rillifane, Sashelas, Labelas and Hanali. :P
You'd be incorrect according to 2e's Elves of Evermeet... the truth of it depends on where you put the most faith in terms of lore. My own preference is 2e for the most part, with actual Realms sourcebooks trumping magazines and such.
And you'd be incorrect according to Demihuman Deities, which is what I go by for 2e+ Realms Seldarine stuff. :D
As for being really purist about the Seldarine, the original D&Dg has entries for Corellon Larethian, Deep Sashelas and Rillifane Rallathil, and Corellon's entry mentions the names of Hanali Celanil and Labelas Enoreth, the first appearance of all of them and thus the 'original' Seldarine. (Though the term Seldarine isn't used yet, AFAIK it was first used in Dragon 60 when Aerdrie Faenya, Erevan Ilesere and Solonor Thelandira were introduced and Labelas and Hanali got write-ups. (Thus filling out what remains to this day the core 1e Seldarine, and most of the later edition's Seldarine as well. None of the later-introduced Dragon Seldarine members were ever in a book, to my knowledge. 1e UA had the Dragon 60 members; 1e FR had them as well. 2e introduced as core Seldarine members Sehanine Moonbow and Fenmarel Mestarine(Who did beat up one of the Dragon Elven gods and take his stuff, or at least his background story), and of course the Realms further included as actual full elven deities and official members of the Seldarine Angharradh and Shevarash. Greyhawk had Ye'Cind, who was actually 1e.)
Yeah I can't read that wall of text either, what I get for posting while tired.
As to being a purist, I see little point to sticking to original conceptions that haven't been refined or filled out as time goes on. That's kind of the beauty of the game really, you can define things according to some sources, and wholly ignore others, to get things exactly the way you want them.
Fel and Lash are Corellon's proxies, however. I hardly think anyone would argue that a god's proxies are actual members of said god's pantheon. Otherwise we'd have to include Adarc Brightleaf and Eimher Flow. Or that one human guy Fenmarel has as a proxy. That'd go over well with elves. >D
Anyway, membership in the Seldarine is decided by Corellon, not misguided mortal opinion. It doesn't need to specifically state that Lash and Fel aren't proper members of the Seldarine because it goes without saying. They're not gods, they're Corellon's servants, hence they aren't members of the Seldarine, which is the pantheon of Elven *gods*.
Considering that the later-written Demihuman Deities directly contradicts EoE on a number of things and EoE is as I recall primarily written in-world whereas Demihuman Deities is rather more out-of-world, I'm going to go with that source as being rather more definitive. Hell, as I recall EoE calls Lash and Fel demigods, when they aren't, which rather makes it suspect on everything else as well. *shrug*
Mortal elves being confused about things != Corellon's official approval.
With Shar being on the ascendant in the 15th century of Toril her influence might have even managed to persuade the Black Archer to actually leave the Seldarine for her domain, the Towers of Night.
Fear his black arrows, blades and spear.
Oops, that reminds me, interesting notion there Suin... very interesting. One of the few things involving her that I find palatable...
I just noted one of the huge ones. :P
EoE lists Fel and Lash as Demigods, DD specifically notes that they're not and that it's a common misconception.
I suspect though that part of the problem here is that we're looking at this from entirely different angles.
EoE is more 'What elves think', and that seems to be what you're going for; DD is more 'What's actually going on' and that's what I'm going for.
Though I'll point out that Captain Carreigh had no voice in the section in question, which was presented from a omniscient 3rd person view. So in fact it is pretty reliable on that point. You just don't like it. Big seperation between those two things.
You guys are still fighting over this!?
Just another day on the Forgotten Realms Forums.
On topic maybe I should read up on this Diety...
You guys are still fighting over this!?
Just another day on the Forgotten Realms Forums.
On topic maybe I should read up on this Diety...
Simply put, hes like the Hoar of the Seldarine.
You guys are still fighting over this!?
Just another day on the Forgotten Realms Forums.
On topic maybe I should read up on this Diety...
Simply put, hes like the Hoar of the Seldarine.
Hoar of the Seldarine?
Then he must suck.
Glad I didn't waste my precious time reading up on that loser.
Corellon still rocks!
You guys are still fighting over this!?
Just another day on the Forgotten Realms Forums.
On topic maybe I should read up on this Diety...
Simply put, hes like the Hoar of the Seldarine.
Hoar of the Seldarine?
Then he must suck.
Glad I didn't waste my precious time reading up on that loser.
Corellon still rocks!
I am not sure how to take that. Are you saying that he sucks because he's not very original? Or are you saying that Hoar sucks?
Perhaps Shevaresh is a bit unoriginal, but we see his followers as kindered spirits, and have worked together from time to time. It could be quite possible that perhaps Shevaresh and Hoar are merely aspects of the same god?
It has nothing to do with whether I like it or not, but its information is obsoleted by a later, more authorative source that directly contradicts it on several things. If you're incapable of grasping and accepting that, I don't think I can help you.
The term authoritative is purely in the eye of the beholder. You put more weight behind it, obviously, but that does not mean that anyone else need follow suit. It comes down to emphasize what you like, ignore what you don't, which is my point when it comes to the gods. RAW including every source, most of the gods kind of suck since the ToT, but if you cherry pick those sources you can get a pantheon much more worthwhile and useful to your campaign.
*underlined words are obviously rhetorical, but I'm feeling a need to make that plain.
It's OK, Stigger, we still love you even if you're wrong.
Back on topic, Corellon rulez, Shevarash dr00lz.
*Actually* on topic, so how long until Shevarash fully goes over to the dark side, and how many of his worshippers are going to end up going over with him, past the ones that already *do* go too far? (Necessary Sacrifices in Realms of the Elves didn't do anything at all for my opinion of hardcore followers of Shevarash, yeah.)
He's already been 'finding solace in the soothing embrace of Shar', and that was in 2e's era, how's he doing in 1379 DR?
However, given WotC's firm dislike of anything positive, I'd say he became the latest divine snack for Shar after he got too close.
Oh, yeah, and I'm not wrong, you're just too obstinate to see the correctness of my position.
Well, he's still an Exarch of Corellon apparently, but yeah, I wonder how much further he's slipped over in the interim. (Go figure, Shevarash is still around, but they just conveniently forgot about poor old Rillifane.)
I have to admit him ending up as a snack for Shar wouldn't cause me any pain or tears.
I can't see him really relaxing his views. And his portfolio as listed in 4e is simply 'Vengance', as I recall, perhaps he's turned his hate to pretty much everything as he falls further and further from grace.
I want to know what Shevarash was doing during the WotSQ. Or the rest of the Seldarine for that matter.
Oh wait I forgot, the Seldarine doesn't exist to Salvatore. 9_9
Well, really, any racial god = some human god is just gonna suck in my book no matter what, official or unofficial... so yeah.
(Necessary Sacrifices in Realms of the Elves didn't do anything at all for my opinion of hardcore followers of Shevarash, yeah.)
In all fairness, that was a terrible story that seemed to ignore the benevolence of the Seldarine. Remember that it was also said Corellon would not protect the soul of the unsworn dead elven child, even though his job is to protect all of his people. So it wasn't just Shevarash who come off looking horrible in that one.
Shevarash does not seem to be very popular among the community.
In all fairness, I did not know much about the deity, and you guys helped me better understand his basic principles and faith and his relation (or lack thereof) with the Seldarine.
No longer really related, but I chose Corellon as my elven avenger's primary deity, but I worked something with my DM and he's willing to let me worship the Seldarine and depending on my actions/thoughts, one member of the Seldarine or another is whom receive my prayers.
In a sense, I opted to worship the elven pantheon.
Since most of you have a better knowledge of the Seldarine, does it make sense?
Also, if I may, what are your thoughts on the other black sheep of the elven family, Fenmarel?
True, it wasn't the best story, yeah. (My interpretation was that histrionic elf woman is histrionic and overreacting and doesn't really understand how things work, and that two minutes after we have Dramatic Tearjerker Ending In Which Our Semi-Hero Has Stood Alone And Done The Right Thing Because It Was The Right Thing, one of Corellon's minions shows up to take what's-his-face and the drow kid off to Arvandor, but yours is also a valid interpretation.) Lisa Smedman is of course also the one responsible for writing the Lady Penitent trilogy, which I refuse to buy any of the books of, even though Corellon makes a brief appearance in the last. He also comes off as a **** there since, you know, his daughter just died, and his son and grandson bit it not that long before, and he doesn't seem even mildly *upset*, let alone sad that his daughter he supposedly loved and doted on just bit it. *facepalm* (We'll leave out various conspiracy theories about which of the twins is actually dead and if either of them even is. :P)
Worshipping the Seldarine as a whole is a perfectly valid way of doing it. The Seldarine cooperate with each other and each faith preaches tolerance for the other faiths(and even some non-Seldarine faiths). I can easily see an Avenger being dedicated to the Seldarine as a whole, acting to punish those who threaten the elven people.
Fenmarel Mestarine I can take or leave. He's one of those 2e Elven gods that I'm kind of 'meh' on. He kind of stole Tarsellis Meunniduin's stuff with the whole 'nearly seduced by Lolth' thing. I don't hate him, but he's not one of my favourite members of the Seldarine. He's also the one responsible for Shevarash being a god.
no need to morn those who were dead to you long ago
Them perhaps not(As far as we know Corellon never even got told he HAD a grandson), but Eilistraee had been dead for like two seconds. You'd think he'd manage to care, but Lisa Smedman doesn't think so!
unless you get the DDI or LFR.
dont have a reason to join LFR.. and my DDI subscription just expired. so... I have to wait or read novels
Elaine Cunningham's stuff is worth reading. I liked Azure Bonds by Jeff Grubb and Kate Novak too.
It's not a novel, but the FR comic is worth reading if only because of the large amounts of crack it smokes. Also, Vartan is awesome and Agrivar is perhaps the only pre-4e Paladin I haven't wanted to punch in the teeth. >D
It's been suggested that Shevarash may be swimming towards the deep end of the alignment pool to hang out with Shar.
Some people here seem to think that since Corellon is still (apparently) OK with him, he can't really have gotten in too deep yet.
On the other hand, Corellon used to be Chaotic Good. Now he's unaligned. A lot of the other deities that used to be Chaotic Good (Sune, etc) simply became Good in 4th edition, but Corellon became unaligned instead. Maybe Shevarash is really going over to the dark side and Corellon is fine with that because he's on the same path.
but for some reason FR Corellon is now using PoL Corellon's Symbol, WTF?
Not in my Realms... character. The change, and the idea that ALL ELVES EVERYWHERE IN THE REALMS have actually ACCEPTED this, makes no sense. It's always been a crescent moon. We're talkin' elves here, berk. You think they're gonna sodding *change*? The holy symbol for their primary god that created them? Yeah no. (I still don't get the star. I remembered going into a pdf of Dragon 60 for the picture of Erevan for one of the spam threads that Erol Otus did a(n incredibly weird) picture of Corellon for that issue(At least it's presumably Corellon, since there isn't really anyone else it can be) that had an eight-pointed star in it, but yeah that's the only place in nearly 30 years before 4e that Corellon's been depicted with a star symbol.)
So my 4e sun elf cleric of Corellon refuses to use it, considers it heresy, and uses his old silver crescent moon holy symbol. :P
And yeah, FR Corellon is Good in 4e. Core Corellon is Unaligned and not the same god. (Though they keep reusing stuff from the real Corellon for him. Although for an 'Unaligned' god, both he and his church lean awfully goddamned good. Yeah, let's stamp out evil! Er wait why do we care again?)
That Corellon and his ilk are not the most evil force in the multiverse?
I left that twit Cyric, BECAUSE I thought I was upgrading the EVIL IN MY LIFE!
:-p
You can see, hear, touch, smell, and taste the evil that is Corellon...
*whacks with rolled up newspaper*
We need to take this to the spam group.
And that wasn't spam, it was cold, hard fact.
I agree wit h the Nai, this needs to go to the spam fourm
Meh, you've all fallen for his propaganda.
So anything left to say about Severash? I know I can't think of much offhand...
Meh, you've all fallen for his propaganda.
So anything left to say about Severash? I know I can't think of much offhand...
Hmmm Sevarash. he is the Seldarine Hoar, he has a connection with Shar, no i think thats about it. Although i dont think Shar has her hooks as deep in him as one might believe, he is still with Corellon, and not in the Towers of Night with Shar. Any way,yeah Corellon might of been a little more evil back in the day, being all bloodthirsty and taking out Gruumsh's eye, and banishing fellow companions to the abyss, but really i think he's mellowed out some since then. Hes good now. Really, he is. Stig why dont you join us in the glory that is the Seldarine.
As to the Seldarine, my heart belongs to Sune and Lliira, the Seldarine are just low-born sewer trash comparatively.
Lovely recap... so not much else to say.
As to the Seldarine, my heart belongs to Sune and Lliira, the Seldarine are just low-born sewer trash comparatively.
Well as a follower of Sune and Lliira(im not even going to mention that Sune is really Hanali) of course youre going to feel that way, just as I, a follower of the Seldarine, namely Labelas, feels the same way about your heathen gods.
being the elven Hoar and all.
Phonetically, it made me jiggle...
Phonetically, it made me jiggle...
Yes, I get that alot. Alternativly I could of said Assuran, but that ussually generates some laughs as well.