Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lord_karsus Aug 13, 2008 12:17:27	[SBLOCK= Deities] GREATER DEITIES Amaunator: Sun (LG) Asmodeus: Sin (E) Bane: Tyranny (E) Chauntea: Life (LG) Corellon Larethian: Fey (G) Cyric: Strife (CE) Ghaunadaur: Abominations (CE) Gruumsh: Savagery (CE) Kelemvor: Death (U) Lolth: Drow (CE) Moradin: Dwarves (LG) Oghma: Knowledge (U) Selune: Moon (G) Shar: Shadows (E) Silvanus: Nature (U) Sune: Beauty (G) Tempus: War (U) Torm: Law (LG) LESSER DEITIES Angharradh: Wisdom (G) Auril: Winter (CE) Bahamut: Justice (G) Berronar Truesilver: Family (LG) Beshaba: Bad Luck (E) Garl Glittergold: Protection (G) Gond: Craft (U) Ilmater: Suffering (G) Loviatar: Pain (E) Luthnic: Caves (CE) Meilikki: Forests (G) Sheela Peryroyl: Beauty (G) Sseth: Serpents (E) Talona: Plague (CE) Tiamat: Greed (E) Tymora: Good luck (G) Umberlee: Sea (CE) Waukeen: Merchants (U) Zehir: Poison (E) EXARCHS Abbathor: Greed (E) Arvoreen: Vigilance (LG) Baervan Wildwanderer: Travel (G) Bahgtru: Brute Strength (CE) Baravar Cloakshadow: Illusions (G) Brandobaris: Thievery (U) Callarduran Smoothhands: Mining (U) Clangeddin Silverbeard: Battle (LG) Cyrrollalee: Friendship (G) Deep Sashelas: Oceans (G) Dugmaren Brightmantle: Scholarship (G) Erevan Ilesere: Mischief (U) Fenmarel Mestarine: Outcasts (U) Fzoul Chembryl: Service to Evil (E) Garagos: War (CE) Hoar: Revenge (E) Hruggek: Ambush (E) Jergal: Fatalism (U) Labelas Enoreth: Longetivity (G) Lliira: Joy (G) Maglubiyet: Goblins (E) Malar: Beasts (E) Marthammor Duin: Explorers (G) Milil: Song (G) Obould: Warriors (CE) The Red Knight: Tactics (LG) Sharess: Cats (G) Shargaas: Night (CE) Shevarash: Vengeance (U) Shiallia: Fertility (G) Siamorphe: Nobility (LG) Solonar Thelandira: Archery (G) Thard Harr: Hunting (G) Uthgar: Wildlands (U) Valkur: Sailors (G) Vaprak: Frenzy (CE) Vergadain: Wealth (U) PRIMORDIALS Akadi Bazim-Gorag Grumbar Istishia Kossuth Seven "Lost Deities" (Includes Dendar the Night Serpent, Kezef the Chaos Hound, and Borem of the Boiling Mud) ARCHDEVILS Baalzebul Bel Belial Dispater Glasya Levistus Mammon Mephistopheles SLAIN DEITIES Tyr: Perished at the hands of a Demon incursion. Mystra: Slain at the hands of Cyric in 1385 DR. Azuth: Slain by Asmodeus after being shunted from Dweomerheart to the Nine Hells. Gorm Gulthyn: Dies while doing battle to Deep Duerra and Laduguer after they follow Moradin in his crusade against the forces of Hammergrim. Haela Brightaxe: Dies while doing battle to Deep Duerra and Laduguer after they follow Moradin in his crusade against the forces of Hammergrim. Deep Duerra: Slain by Clangeddin in the crusade against the forces of Hammergrim, led by Moradin. Laduguer: Slain by Moradin in the crusade against the forces of Hammergrim, led by Moradin. The Masked Lady: Sacrificed herself to allow those Drow without Wendonai's taint to become Dark Elves once more. Helm: Is slain by Tyr in a duel over a misunderstanding concerning the marriage of Tyr and Tymora. Lathander: The 'higher sun entity' that he is a part of shifts from it's Lathander phase to it's Amaunator phase. Velsharoon: Consumed by fire and perished because of it in 1425. Currently, his corpse is in Aglarondian hands, and is a testament to the legacy of The Simbul. Savras: Killed during Cyric's intrusion into Dweomerheart and his assassination of Mystra. RETCONS Sehanine Moonbow has always been a guise worn by Selûne among the Elves. Hanali Celanil has always been a guise worn by Sune among the Elves. Aerdrie Faenya has always been a guise won by Akadi among the Elves. Talos has always been a guise worn by Gruumsh, among Humans. Yondella has always been a guise worn by Chauntea, among the Halflings. Ubtao was never a deity, but instead, a 'Primordial' who turned on his fellows and remained in Faerûn instead of Abeir. OTHER MISSING DEITIES Some deities left Realmspace. Some deities have influence in 'Abeir' only. Some deities have been retconned out of existence, having simply been guises other other deities. Some deities have met their specific fates, in a "secret timeline" available to the Forgotten Realms designers. Expect such information to be slowly made available via DRAGON magazine or DDI. [/SBLOCK] The Planes [u]ARVANDOR[/u] Greater: Corellon [Deep Sashelas, Erevan Ilesere, Fenmarel Mestarine, Labelas Enoreth, Shevarash, Solonor Thelandira] Lesser: Angharradh Lesser: Garl Glittergold [Baervan Wildwanderer, Baravar Cloakshadow, Callarduran Smoothhands] BANEHOLD Greater: Bane [Abbathor, Fzoul Chembryl, Hoar, Hruggek, Maglubiyet] Lesser: Loviatar Lesser: Tiamat CELESTIA Greater: Torm Lesser: Ilmater Lesser: Bahamut THE DEEP WILDS Greater: Silvanus [Malar] Lesser: Auril Lesser: Mielikki [Shiallia] Lesser: Umberlee THE DEMONWEB PITS Greater: Lolth THE DISMAL CAVERNS Greater: Ghaunadaur DWARFHOME Greater: Moradin [Clangeddin Silverbeard, Dugmaren Brightmantle, Marthammor Duin, Thard Harr, Vergadain] Lesser: Berronar Truesilver ETERNAL SUN Greater: Amaunator [Siamorphe] Lesser: Waukeen THE FUGUE PLANE Greater: Kelemvor [Jergal] GATES OF THE MOON Greater: Selune Greater: Sune [Lliira, Sharess] Lesser: Tymora GREEN FIELDS Greater: Chauntea Lesser: Sheela Peryroyl [Arvoreen, Brandobaris, Cyrrollalee] HOUSE OF KNOWLEDGE Greater: Oghma [Milil] Lesser: Gond THE NINE HELLS Greater: Asmodeus Archdevils: Baalzebul, Bel, Belial, Dispater, Glasya, Levistus, Mammon, Mephistopheles NISHREK Greater: Gruumsh [Bahgtru, Obould, Shargaas, Vaprak] Lesser: Luthic THE SUPREME THRONE Greater: Cyric TOWERS OF NIGHT Greater: Shar Lesser: Sseth Lesser: Talona Lesser: Zehir WARRIOR'S REST Greater: Tempus [Garagos, The Red Knight, Uthgar, Valkur] Lesser: Beshaba PRIMORDIALS Akadi [Sky Home] Bazim-Gorag Grumbar [Root Hold] Istishia [Cresting Spires] Kossuth [The Undying Pyre]
#2 mourn_dup Aug 13, 2008 12:48:39	Organization: The Harpers have disbanded and reformed as an anti-Shadovar group.
#3 18DELTA Aug 13, 2008 13:31:48	-Here you go LK. From www.enworld.org :D Forked from: Some people in Canada have recieved the 4E FRCG early! Here a small summary of Red Wizards, StarFyre2007s and Mad Eyed Cats posts who already got their copy of the FRCG. This post will be kept up to date and in Addition I will also post every addition from a different thread/board separatly to bump it. *Now sorted!* Information from the FRCG Zhentarim Orbakh is the only surviving Manshoon clone and leads the Zenths (mainly consisting out of Cyric guys now) from Stormwatch and Darkhold. The Zenths fight the Yakuza. The Baneites´made a deal with the Phaerim to controll the Dalelands. The Shades heard from that deal and destroyed Zhentil Keep. After that the Baneites fled, leaving the Cyric guys in charge. The goal of the new Zenths is freeing Cyric from his prison. Zhentil Keep is still in ruins and apparently inhabited by robbers and pirates.
#4 lord_karsus Aug 13, 2008 13:34:56	-Here you go LK. From www.enworld.org -Yes, I know. I have that. I'm in the process of transcribing information.
#5 18DELTA Aug 13, 2008 13:37:33	-Well :P then! ;) I try and be helpful and you get all snarky! :P :P :P :P 18DELTA :D
#6 because Aug 13, 2008 14:10:31	Sure beauty is important, but there are 2 gods with this sphere, what is up with that? I thought they wanted to take out all the double gods. Sune and Sheela Peryroyl both have the sphere. Can anybody say if there's anything mentioned about it?
#7 derren_s. Aug 13, 2008 14:13:51	I hope you don't mind when I copy the informations you got from other sources over to ENworld?
#8 strayth Aug 13, 2008 15:05:53	18Delta wins the thread, but for any other contributions one should bold what changed. Corellon used to be what, CG? And elven instead of Fey-specific. Edit: Read up again, it does seem like most of this was addressed. Forgive me, it's been years since I played FR. Like, before 3.5, and before that it was at least five years since our 2e game of it.
#9 merrikcale Aug 13, 2008 21:10:52	-Well :P then! ;) I try and be helpful and you get all snarky! :P :P :P :P 18DELTA :D he's like that
#10 lord_karsus Aug 13, 2008 22:46:40	18Delta wins the thread... -WTF!! :P
#11 lord_karsus Aug 13, 2008 22:47:10	I hope you don't mind when I copy the informations you got from other sources over to ENworld? -Yeah, go ahead. Make sure you rub it in their noses that the WotC Boards are better, though. ;)
#12 GreenKnight Aug 13, 2008 23:34:04	-Yeah, go ahead. Make sure you rub it in their noses that the WotC Boards are better, though. ;) ...they are?
#13 tyrantbane Aug 14, 2008 0:15:15	Could you please tell us the spheres for the rest of the gods? Do the exarchs have spheres too? Maybe confirmation as to whom serves whom would also be appreciated...
#14 derren_s. Aug 14, 2008 4:44:01	Could you please tell us the spheres for the rest of the gods? Do the exarchs have spheres too? Maybe confirmation as to whom serves whom would also be appreciated... Yes, Exarchs have Spheres too, but only a few have been mentioned. (Fzoul has "Service to Evil" AKA Divine Butler ;) , The Red Knight has "Tactics" and Obould has "Warrior". Fzoul, Hoar and Tiamat serve Bane. Lovitar is his consort. I think Bahamut serves Torm. For more information you have to ask Red Knight or StarFyre2007 on this board or Mean Eyed Cats over at ENworld. @Lord Karsus, I added some new information at my ENworld list, including a Table of Content. You might want to take a look at it.
#15 viktor_von_doom Aug 14, 2008 5:01:33	I like that change to Elminster, could make for a great plot for a high level campaign.
#16 merrikcale Aug 14, 2008 6:13:08	...they are? sure. I post here
#17 todesherr Aug 14, 2008 6:56:24	Is all this god stuff confirmed fact? If so...I am happy that Amaunator is LG rather than U....
#18 Iluvrien Aug 14, 2008 8:04:05	It looks like Amlaruil of Evermeet is as dead as a door-nail LK.
#19 GreenKnight Aug 14, 2008 8:41:32	sure. I post here I actually consider that to be one of the reasons why these boards are inferior. The constant glitching, sure, I can take that. But the presence of MerrikCale...! :P
#20 naex Aug 14, 2008 9:19:33	The poor dwarven gods have suffered the most IMO. In their initial Dragon magazine debut (1st or 2nd edition AD&D) they were all Greater Gods, now all of them except one have fallen in power.
#21 meldread Aug 14, 2008 9:43:33	Is all this god stuff confirmed fact? If so...I am happy that Amaunator is LG rather than U.... So am I. As I posted in the past I always felt that they were going to make Amaunator Lawful Good. I've always viewed the whole "Lathander turning into Amaunator" thing as a maturing stage. Lathander was always about youthfulness and had an almost naive view of the world. I think now that he is Amaunator his views about good and evil will be much the same, but the way he approaches it will be different, where cynicism replaces naive thoughts, not unlike a child maturing into an adult or the dawn maturing into the noonday sun.
#22 18DELTA Aug 14, 2008 9:49:18	I actually consider that to be one of the reasons why these boards are inferior. The constant glitching, sure, I can take that. But the presence of MerrikCale...! :P -Look at Merric's sneaky looking Avatar...:P -Merric Cale MUST be stopped!!!! :D 18DELTA ;)
#23 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 14, 2008 15:09:07	It looks like Amlaruil of Evermeet is as dead as a door-nail LK. I know, I wonder what the story is behind that. Great idea for a thread.
#24 merrikcale Aug 14, 2008 15:42:04	The constant glitching, sure, I can take that. But the presence of MerrikCale...! :P I may have to put that in my sig
#25 elsenrail Aug 14, 2008 16:08:37	Why Tyr died in such a stupid way? He's a Norse god. He could simply have said "Bye, Faerun. I return home".
#26 GreenKnight Aug 14, 2008 17:42:27	Why Tyr died in such a stupid way? He's a Norse god. He could simply have said "Bye, Faerun. I return home". I would've loved to have had some kind of reference to Ragnarok, myself. Maybe a mention about Tyr receiving a distant call from an ancient god and leaving Faerun forever to stand by the side of his old friend for one final time.
#27 lord_karsus Aug 14, 2008 17:45:08	I would've loved to have had some kind of reference to Ragnarok, myself. Maybe a mention about Tyr receiving a distant call from an ancient god and leaving Faerun forever to stand by the side of his old friend for one final time. -That. Would. Have. Been. Awesome!
#28 merrikcale Aug 14, 2008 17:53:39	-That. Would. Have. Been. Awesome! ragnarok = cool
#29 merrikcale Aug 14, 2008 17:55:18	-Look at Merric's sneaky looking Avatar...:P Yup --Merric Cale MUST be stopped!!!! :D you could try :fight!:
#30 GreenKnight Aug 14, 2008 17:57:54
#31 merrikcale Aug 14, 2008 17:59:00	I thought he was gonna say "well, i come from the land down under, ya better run ya better take cover"
#32 GreenKnight Aug 14, 2008 18:00:05	He's Norwegian, not Australian. :P Besides, he always struck me as a Led Zeppelin fan.
#33 lord_karsus Aug 14, 2008 20:51:43	-Updated.
#34 lord_karsus Aug 15, 2008 21:46:59	-Updated once more.
#35 lord_karsus Aug 16, 2008 12:15:29	-Updated.
#36 elsenrail Aug 16, 2008 13:02:48	Thanks for info, Lord Karsus. Damn, I'm still waiting for the FRCG to arrive. Could tell me what happened to Mulhorand and Unther? Are they completely gone? i know there is sth called Tymanther... but it can't be that large.
#37 lord_karsus Aug 16, 2008 13:08:07	Could tell me what happened to Mulhorand and Unther? Are they completely gone? i know there is sth called Tymanther... but it can't be that large. -They were replaced by portions of 'Abeir'. Unther, for example, was replaced by Tymanther.
#38 lord_karsus Aug 17, 2008 12:57:46	-Updated to reflect new information about the Forgotten Realms from GenCon.
#39 JudgeDookie Aug 17, 2008 14:28:55	I'm quite surprised they statted NPC's out. That means they will be doing the same thing in DDi and sooner or later we will have a bunch of people b*tching that their PC's are too inferior to deal with anything because all the NPC's they read about are at least twice as powerful as they are. Stupid. Why not ordain the NPC's with a threat level and let DM's determine what fits for their game?
#40 GreenKnight Aug 17, 2008 14:32:46	The NPC's have an issue with, apparently, are legions of good guy NPC's (though I don't mind them, myself). Different thing altogether when the NPC's are villains. Complaining about them would be like complaining about high-level monsters like the Ancient Red Dragon or the Tarrasque.
#41 JudgeDookie Aug 17, 2008 14:41:38	The NPC's have an issue with, apparently, are legions of good guy NPC's (though I don't mind them, myself). Different thing altogether when the NPC's are villains. Complaining about them would be like complaining about high-level monsters like the Ancient Red Dragon or the Tarrasque. No. I agree. Just saying that once you start statting the bad, people will want the good statted as well. Then you'll have the people that never wanted any of it statted at all and then we end up right back where we started with people crying about so-and-so being too powerful. It's an evolution thing I'm worried about here. You don't set precedence unless you mean to follow the same course.
#42 lord_karsus Aug 17, 2008 19:09:13	-Updated a bit more.
#43 ywhtptgtfo Aug 17, 2008 19:11:30	Undren'thoz is now ruled by male drows after a civil war.
#44 lord_karsus Aug 18, 2008 1:04:25	-Updated.
#45 18DELTA Aug 18, 2008 16:19:53	Greetings! I just picked up my copy of the FRCG today and discovered an interesting bit of information. While many gods perished in the spellplague, the text also states that whole pantheons left Faerun. In addition, some of the gods disappeared into Abeir. So, if your favorite god/goddess is missing from the updated setting, you can easily have them still exist on Abeir (possibly looking for a way back to Faerun), or busy establishing themselves in a new world. Personally, I am using this information to keep Mystra alive and well. While Mystra has reincarnated in the past (saving the Weave), Cyric's attack and the occurance of Abeir aligning with Faerun interferred with the process and the resulting explosion shunted her into Abeir. Recovered, the weakened goddess tried to return to Faerun but has found herself blocked (i.e. Shar "blocking" the rise of a deity of magic). My parties goal will eventually be to open a portal allowing her return and resumption of the sphere of magic (albeit in a more neutral form). Thoughts? -I figured this needed to be in this thread. 18DELTA :D
#46 lord_karsus Aug 18, 2008 19:45:49	-In interesting tidbit. Updated, with this, and some other information.
#47 JudgeDookie Aug 18, 2008 20:40:49	Yo, I agree, Karsus, with a similar statement made earlier. When changes are made, can you make them bold? Goes a long way in finding whats needed. If need be, I'll pay you a quarter per post. I know its cheap, but the dollar...well....
#48 lord_karsus Aug 18, 2008 21:15:14	-Yeah, I was thinking about going back and underlining things.
#49 JudgeDookie Aug 18, 2008 21:20:30	Somethin'. Anything to highlight whats new and improved (destroyed) would helpful.
#50 thuud Aug 19, 2008 3:33:43	No word on Artemis Enteri yet? He apparently absorbed an undead shade with his dagger at some point, and I was curious to see if it extended his life. I hope it did, he was my favorite character.
#51 leiril Aug 19, 2008 3:57:13	Originally Posted by Karazhan View Post Greetings! I just picked up my copy of the FRCG today and discovered an interesting bit of information. While many gods perished in the spellplague, the text also states that whole pantheons left Faerun. In addition, some of the gods disappeared into Abeir. So, if your favorite god/goddess is missing from the updated setting, you can easily have them still exist on Abeir (possibly looking for a way back to Faerun), or busy establishing themselves in a new world. Personally, I am using this information to keep Mystra alive and well. While Mystra has reincarnated in the past (saving the Weave), Cyric's attack and the occurance of Abeir aligning with Faerun interferred with the process and the resulting explosion shunted her into Abeir. Recovered, the weakened goddess tried to return to Faerun but has found herself blocked (i.e. Shar "blocking" the rise of a deity of magic). My parties goal will eventually be to open a portal allowing her return and resumption of the sphere of magic (albeit in a more neutral form). Thoughts? 18DELTA :D Huh? Gods left behind, searching a way back? Magic gone to hell, strange things happened? You know what? I've read this somewhere before, let me think they called that Age of Mortals and now I am waiting till a little Halfling, eh Kender, travels through the time and bring all the gods and things back in the right order. Is there some superbig red worm called Malys in the new setting?
#52 merrikcale Aug 19, 2008 8:58:53	I like the Returned Abeir bit. Its the continent that replaced Maztica. Its a land that was once ruled Primordials and then the dragons overthrew them. The people have taken control over some of the continent but there are still lands ruled by ancient dragons Turmulane is a great city. There are the Dusk Ports (I think), dragonborn etc etc In fact, I don't get why they had to screw around with Faerun. Why not just replace Maztica with Returned Abeir. It has Points of Light, Primordials, plenty of Dragonborn, etc. That and killing Mystra would have accomplished what they wanted w/o messing with our setting
#53 GreenKnight Aug 19, 2008 9:03:47	I thought the OP needed to be a bit more legible, so I went and added bullet points and such, below. So any chance you can edit the OP, Karsus? You can simply copy and paste this there. Thanks. [SBLOCK= Deities] GREATER GODS Amaunator: Sun (LG) Asmodeus: Sin Bane: Tyranny Chauntea: Life (LG) Corellon Larethian: Fey (G) Cyric: Strife Ghaunadaur: Abominations Gruumsh: Savagery Kelemvor: Death (U) Lolth: Drow Moradin: Dwarves Ohgma: Knowledge (U) Selune: Moon Shar: Shadows Silvanus: Nature (U) Sune: Beauty (G) Tempus: War (U) Torm: Law (LG) LESSER GODS Angharradh: Wisdom (G) Auril: Winter Bahamut: Justice (G) Berronar Truesilver: Family (LG) Beshaba: Bad Luck Garl Glittergold: Protection (G) Gond: Craft (U) Ilmater: Suffering (G) Loviatar: Pain Luthnic: Caves Meilikki: Forests (G) Sheela Peryroyl: Beauty (G) Sseth: Serpents Talona: Plague Tiamat: Greed Tymora: Good luck (G) Umberlee: Sea Waukeen: Merchants (U) Zehir: Poison DEMIGODS/EXARCHS Abbathor Arvoreen Baervan Wildwanderer Bahgtru Baravar Cloakshadow Berronar Brandobaris Callarduran Smoothhands Clangeddon Silverbeard Cyrrollalee Deep Sashalas Dugmaren Brightmantle Erevan Ilesere Fenmarel Mestarine Fzoul Chembryl: Sevice to Evil Garagos Hoar Hruggek Jergal: Fatalism Labelas Enoreth Lliira Maglubiyet Malar Marthammor Duin Milil Obould: Warriors The Red Knight: Tactics Sharess Shargaas Shevarash Shiallia Siamorphe Solonar Thelandira Thard Harr Uthgar Valkur Vaprak Vergadain PRIMORDIALS Akadi Bazim-Gorag Grumbar Istishia Kossuth Seven Lost Deities (Includes Dendar, Kezef, and Borem of the Boiling Mud) ARCHDEVILS Baalzebul Bel Belial Dispater Glasya Levistus Mammon Mephistopheles SLAIN DEITIES Tyr: Perished at the hands of a Demon incursion. Mystra: Slain at the hands of Cyric in 1385 DR. Azuth: Slain by Asmodeus after being shunted from Dweomerheart to the Nine Hells. Gorm Gulthyn: Dies while doing battle to Deep Duerra and Laduguer after they follow Moradin in his crusade against the forces of Hammergrim. Haela Brightaxe: Dies while doing battle to Deep Duerra and Laduguer after they follow Moradin in his crusade against the forces of Hammergrim. Deep Duerra: Slain by Clangeddin in the crusade against the forces of Hammergrim, led by Moradin. Laduguer: Slain by Moradin in the crusade against the forces of Hammergrim, led by Moradin. Helm: Is slain by Tyr in a duel over a misunderstanding concerning the marriage of Tyr and Tymora. Lathander: The 'higher sun entity' that he is a part of shifts from it's Lathander phase to it's Amaunator phase. MISSING DEITIES Some deities left Realmspace. Some deities have influence in 'Abeir' only. Some deities have been retconned out of existence. Some deities have met their specific fates, in a "secret timeline" available to the Forgotten Realms designers. Expect such information to be slowly made available via DRAGON magazine or DDI. [/SBLOCK] [SBLOCK= Races] Halflings: Are now 6-9 inches taller, with no explanation given. Elves: Sun/Moon/Star Elves are known as 'Eladrin', while Wood/Wild Elves are known as 'Elves'. Gnomes: Are not gone from the Forgotten Realms completely, but no reason for their diminished numbers is given. Dragonborn: Are not the same creatures as the Dragonborn from 3e. Saurials: The Hidden Vale was discovered by the Empire of Netheril. The Shadovar attacked the Saurials, and drove those who survived into the Underdark. [/SBLOCK] [SBLOCK= People] Elminster: Hears voices in his head that he fears magic will release, due to ravages from the Spellplague. He no longer practices the Art, and has isolated himself, where others believe he is an insane hermit. He is a threat to no one as long as he does not cast magic. The consequences of this would be devastating. Fzoul Chembryl: Was killed. Upon death, Bane elevates his former Chosen to Exarch status. The Simbul: Faked her death and now lives in the Dalelands, in disguise, presumably caring and watching over Elminster. Manshoon: His 'Orbakh' clone is the only Manshoon clone that survives, and this clone leads the Zhentarim in Stormwatch and Darkhold. Alustriel: Passed away. King Bruenor Battlehammer: Passed away. King Obould Many-Arrows: Died, and at some point, became an exarch serving Gruumsh/Talos. Triel Baenre: Was killed by her sister Quenthel. Quenthel Baenre: Killer her sister, Triel, and is now the Matron Mother of House Baenre. Szass Tam: Is now the greatest threat to the Forgotten Realms. [/SBLOCK] [SBLOCK= Places] Abeir: A planet that was created by Ao, as a mirror of Toril, to give to the 'primordials'. Maztica: The entire continent switched places with a landmass on 'Abeir' during the Spellplague, and now exists in 'Abeir'. Unther: The nation switched places with a landmass on 'Abeir' during the Spellplague, and now exists in 'Abeir'. A Dragonborn kingdom known as Tymanther now exists where Unther used to. Chessenta: The nation switched places with a landmass on 'Abeir' during the Spellplague, and now exists in 'Abeir'. A Genasi Kingdom existing on Earthmotes connected by bridges exists where Chessenta used to. Thay: Is a dead land, crawling with Undead, created by Szass Tam in a powerful ritual to make himself more powerful than the deities. Lurien: Destroyed during the Spellplague, creating the "Gulf of Lurien". Luskan: Is destroyed during the Spellplague. Darkhold: With the chaos in Zhentil Keep, the Cyricists take control of this fortress. Zhentil Keep: Destroyed by the Shadovar after they discovered that Fzoul Chembryl was making secret deals with the Phaerimm to control the Dalelands. It is now a den for pirates and thieves. Evermeet: The island itself, along with it's inhabitants, was shunted to the Plane of Faerie. A dark, lifeless echo of the island remains on the Prime Material Plane where the island once was. The Starwing Fleet, on the island of Sumbrar, was destroyed, and the soldiers and Dragons stationed there killed. Menzoberranzan: Exists as the largest city in the Underdark. Sea of Fallen Stars: The Sea of Fallen Stars lost a lot of water, having had it flow into the 'Underchasm', a large fissure leading to the Underdark. Baldur's Gate: Having taken in refugees fleeing the Spellplague, the city has grown exponentially. It is now the largest city on Faerûn, boasting numerous wards composed of different races. Rasheman: The Spellplague left the nation mostly in tact, but riled up the various nature spirits within her borders, causing them to become more active. The Great Rift: The Great Rift tore open, creating an even larger hole called 'Underchasm'. Earth Motes float in and above Underchasm, containing former portions of the Underdark. Evereska: After the Phaerimm War, the Fortress Home is still being rebuilt. Because of her Mythal, the city was unaffected by the Spellplague, and has begun to openly oppose the Shadovar. Shade: The Shadovar city is stronger than ever, ruled by the Twelve Princes. Skullport: Is no longer in operation. Waterdeep: The Spellplague caused large statues to animate and caused general destruction. Because of the existence of Undermountain, the city did not collapse. The authorities of Waterdeep patrol the upper levels of Undermountain, to prevent illicit trade. Undermountain: The lingering magic of the Spellplague causes dungeons to randomly shift around. The first level of Undermountain is known as Downshadow, as is populated by those who cannot afford to live in Waterdeep proper. Calimport: The city is now landlocked, due to a change in sea levels. Sembia: Exists as a puppet state for Shade and the returned Netheril. Netheril: The city of Shade reformed the empire in the Anauroch and Sembia. Elturgard: Is a Paladin realm, where Torm is primarily worshiped. It's capital is Elturel, and Scornubel, Triel and Berdusk are cities within it. Iriaebor may or may not be within this nation, as it is listed, but a sidebar later contradicts this. It is lorded over by the High Observer of Torm. Muranndin: Is one of two major areas of influence for Cyric's church. Undren'thoz: The city is now ruled by male Drow. The Hidden Vale: The Netherese Empire discovered the Hidden Vale and attacked it, scattering the Saurials and claiming it for themselves. [/SBLOCK] [SBLOCK= Organizations] Durthran: Eliminated by the Hathran during Thay's Civil War. The sect no longer exists. Harpers: The organization disbanded during the Spellplague. A splinter group of former Harpers reformed the organization to oppose the Shadovar of the Shade Enclave. The Red Wizards: The Red Wizards have no direct connection to the land of Thay any longer, and their ranks are much smaller than those of the pre-Spellplague days. The Zhentarim: Led by Manshoon's clone, Orbakh, the Zhents are primarily composed of Cyricists, because most Banites were routed when the Shadovar destroyed Zhentil Keep. Their primary goal is to free Cyric from his otherworldly prison. The Zhentarim are commonly opposed by the Yakuza, of Kara-Tur. The Cult of the Dragon: Still exists and is particularly active in Tymanther. The Order of the Blue Flame: An organization of Spellscarred victims secretly led by the Sharn, believed to be based out of Deep Imaskar. They claim to want to help Spellplague victims, but in truth, saw the Spellplague as a holy event, and seek to replicate it. The Fire Knives: The guild has "purged" the vampire Orbahk from their ranks, and operate without him. [/SBLOCK] Other Dead spirits/souls travel through the Shadowfell Plane to the Fugue Plane, where Kelemvor judges all dead. Deities sometimes pick up their faithful from the Fugue, or on the journey to the Fugue, but only do so when the individual soul/spirit has some worth to them. Otherwise, every dead soul/spirit, regardless of faith and zealousness, is handled by Kelemvor, and is his to with with as he wants.
#54 GreenKnight Aug 19, 2008 9:06:02	plenty of Dragonborn, etc. Good point, there. A 10-year time jump would've been enough time for Dragonborn from Abeir to start making their way to Faerun in large numbers. All you gotta do is give them a reason to want to get the hell off Abeir as quickly as possible, and before you know it, you'll have Dragonborn coming to Faerun on home-made rafts. ;) Set it around 1390 DR, and you could've added in the Dragonborn that arrived thanks to the Year of Lightning Storms.
#55 merrikcale Aug 19, 2008 9:07:11	Good point, there. A 10-year time jump would've been enough time for Dragonborn from Abeir to start making their way to Faerun in large numbers. Set it around 1390 DR, and you could've added in the Dragonborn that arrived thanks to the Year of Lightning Storms. Exactly. And I like the Return Abeir continent. Its a different kind of place as the races strive to hold back dragon overlords
#56 GreenKnight Aug 19, 2008 9:10:04	I like it, too. I certainly like it better than Maztica. Retarded conquistador crap. The Faerunians on the covers of those books always looked like Spaniards. I can't stand that place right down to the name, which is spelled and pronounced nearly the same as the spanish word for "chew". Appropriate, I guess, as I want to tear it apart with my teeth.
#57 barthalas Aug 19, 2008 9:25:22	I a bit confused by the races part about the Elves. It says here that: Elves: Sun/Moon/Star Elves are known as 'Eladrin', while Wood/Wild Elves are known as 'Elves'. I thought is was going to be the other way around, that Sun/Moon/Star Elves would use the Eladrin stats and Wood/Wild Elves the Elves stats but that they would still be referred to as their 3.x racial names?
#58 leiril Aug 19, 2008 10:04:21	dragon overlords DLnexus was right, they had something in 4E with Krynn, but they changed the name and made it part of FR. I hoped this things would never come to Feaerûn. What's next, the dragons of Ferarun feasting on each other and hoping to get bigger, souls/ghosts stealing magic?
#59 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 10:34:58	Good point, there. A 10-year time jump would've been enough time for Dragonborn from Abeir to start making their way to Faerun in large numbers. All you gotta do is give them a reason to want to get the hell off Abeir as quickly as possible, and before you know it, you'll have Dragonborn coming to Faerun on home-made rafts. ;) Set it around 1390 DR, and you could've added in the Dragonborn that arrived thanks to the Year of Lightning Storms. -You see, now you're using sense. Just stop that! I a bit confused by the races part about the Elves. It says her that: Elves: Sun/Moon/Star Elves are known as 'Eladrin', while Wood/Wild Elves are known as 'Elves'. I thought is was going to be the other way around, that Sun/Moon/Star Elves would use the Eladrin stats and Wood/Wild Elves the Elves stats but that they would still be referred to as their 3.x racial names? -My wording wasn't clear, but I'll revise it. "In D&D", it should be prefaced with.
#60 merrikcale Aug 19, 2008 11:36:19	Also destroyed: Neverwinter (its still on the map though), Starmantle, and the Citadel of the Raven
#61 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 11:39:01	-Any circumstanced? I don't like just writing 'destroyed'.
#62 merrikcale Aug 19, 2008 11:40:51	-Any circumstanced? I don't like just writing 'destroyed'. I am not sure as to why Neverwinter was destroyed. Starmantle I can only assume was destroyed due to the recession of the Sea of Fallen Stars but I'm not sure. The Citadel was destroyed by the Shades in their war with the Zhents
#63 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 11:49:42	-Good enough.
#64 elondir Aug 19, 2008 13:15:17	Okay, it sounds like evertything is gonna be okay on Toril, from a campaign setting viewpoint. I'd love to see if they come out with an Abeir sourcebook (probably not though since it appears to be WotC's trash can).
#65 markustay63 Aug 19, 2008 13:24:40	Since Ed did 'Returned Abeir' in the FRCG, and Ed has promised to do stuff for the DDi, I expaect something about Abeir to appear there. I don't see ANY FR sourcebooks coming out in the near future. -Any circumstanced? I don't like just writing 'destroyed'. This has nothing to do with the subject matter, but the first time I read that as "circumsized". :D I mean... I don't think thats part of any of FR's religions... :embarrass
#66 merrikcale Aug 19, 2008 13:52:15	I don't see ANY FR sourcebooks coming out in the near future. they have said there will be no sourcebooks
#67 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 13:54:56	This has nothing to do with the subject matter, but the first time I read that as "circumsized". :D I mean... I don't think thats part of any of FR's religions... :embarrass -After reading that about ten minutes ago, and then clicking on this thread to see the new response, and seeing what I wrote at the top of the thread quickly, I also saw it as well...It's a typo, but I'll leave it, just because it's funny.
#68 barthalas Aug 19, 2008 14:01:09	they have said there will be no sourcebooks I believe they have said that they have none planned at the moment but if the market warrants it they would consider doing them in the future. Translation, if they think they can make money with it, they'll do so. I know, it's not much of a difference from what you are saying but it at least it leaves the door open for some hope. Not much though I have to admit. :raincloud
#69 JudgeDookie Aug 19, 2008 18:59:27	I believe they have said that they have none planned at the moment but if the market warrants it they would consider doing them in the future. Translation, if they think they can make money with it, they'll do so. I know, it's not much of a difference from what you are saying but it at least it leaves the door open for some hope. Not much though I have to admit. :raincloud Yeah, but still not for a few years--until they launch a couple more worlds. Hopefully, DDi will be worth the money until then. As for Neverwinter, the magical nature of the city probably made it a target for the SpellPlague. Also, since some PC gamers were dragged into D&D through the game named after it, the whole factor comes into play with it destroyed.
#70 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 19:04:25	As for Neverwinter, the magical nature of the city probably made it a target for the SpellPlague. -The Spellplague "avoided" places that were magical in nature.
#71 naex Aug 19, 2008 19:06:36	-The Spellplague "avoided" places that were magical in nature. Uhmm... Halruaa? I thought it only "avoided" mythals and the like (large area magic fields).
#72 JudgeDookie Aug 19, 2008 19:07:12	-The Spellplague "avoided" places that were magical in nature. In quick reflection, you're right. Been gone too long.
#73 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 19:08:04	Uhmm... Halruaa? -Indeed, which is what makes Halruaa's explosion so baffling. I thought it only "avoided" mythals and the like (large area magic fields). -Yes, high concentrations of magic, a phrase that I would use synonymously with "magical in nature".
#74 JudgeDookie Aug 19, 2008 19:17:11	-Yes, high concentrations of magic, a phrase that I would use synonymously with "magical in nature". Yeah, that was my initial knee jerk. Places like Luscan and Thay are mage heavy and were hit hard. Magic permeated would probably be the best word.
#75 karazhan Aug 19, 2008 23:46:12	I can not believe I did not notice this sooner...Velsharoon survived the spellplague itself. In the text, the spellplague occurs in 1385. However, Velsharoon does not die until the year 1425 when he is consumed by fire (the same fires that the Simbul used to fake her death). The leaders of Aglarond also are safeguarding the corpse of Velsharoon so that it can not be used for evil purposes (in the text they state that the corpses of deities are sources of power that can be harnessed). So, anyone want to bet that Szass Tam used Velsharoon in his failed ritual to ascend? Since he died in that area is seems like a possibility. I also wonder what the bonuses are of harnessing the energy of a dead god..perhaps enhanced spellcasting....something to ponder.
#76 lord_karsus Aug 19, 2008 23:49:15	So, anyone want to bet that Szass Tam used Velsharoon in his failed ritual to ascend? Since he died in that area is seems like a possibility. -Sounds like a possibility. Anyone want to bet that Szass Tam was using the same ritual that Velsharoon himself used to turn himself into a deity, to escape his rival, Szass Tam? Because I do, and I like irony.
#77 quale_ Aug 20, 2008 0:16:28	changes: drow are purple now
#78 naex Aug 20, 2008 0:20:19	I always thought Jarlaxle had some type of magic item that produced an unlimited number of throwing knives.
#79 tyrantbane Aug 20, 2008 10:02:01	Can someone tell me the hierarchy of the gods? Which lesser and exarchs serves which Greater god? Thanks!
#80 lord_karsus Aug 20, 2008 13:44:27	changes: drow are purple now -Meh, Drow have been portrayed as purple lot's of time. You can't draw them as pitch black without losing detail. I prefer the "purple Drow". I always thought Jarlaxle had some type of magic item that produced an unlimited number of throwing knives. -He used to, anyway.
#81 lord_karsus Aug 20, 2008 13:45:00	Can someone tell me the hierarchy of the gods? Which lesser and exarchs serves which Greater god? -Indeed, if anyone can provide this, I'll arrange my OP to reflect that.
#82 karazhan Aug 20, 2008 14:02:38	Arvandor Greater God Corellon Exarchs Deep Sashelas Erevan Fenmarel Labelas Shevarash Solonor Gods/Goddesses Angharradh Garl Glittergold Garl Glittergold's Exarchs Baervan Baravar Callarduran Banehold Greater God Bane Exarchs Abbathor Fzoul Hoar Hruggek Maglubiyet Gods/Goddesses Loviatar Tiamat Celestia Greater God Torm Gods Ilmater Bahamut The Deep Wilds Greater God Silvanus Exarchs Malar Gods/Goddesses Auril Mielikki Umberlee Mielikki's Exarchs Shiallia
#83 karazhan Aug 20, 2008 14:03:34	The Demonweb Pits Greater Goddess Lolth The Dismal Caverns Greater God Ghaunadaur Dwarfhome Greater God Moradin Exarchs Clangeddin Dugmaren Marthammor Thard Vergadain Goddess Berronar The Fugue Plane Greater God Kelemvor Exarch Jergal Gates of the Moon Greater Goddesses Selune Sune Sune's Exarchs Lliira Sharess Goddess Tymora Green Fields Greater Goddess Chauntea Goddess Sheela Sheela's Exarchs Arvoreen Brandobaris Cyrrollalee House of Knowledge Greater God Oghma Exarch Milil God Gond
#84 markustay63 Aug 20, 2008 14:15:16	Tiamet serving Bane just sounds so wrong to me. Wait till Takhisis finds out - she'll come over from Dragonlance and straighten her Faerûnian aspect out right quick. I think I'll start working on my Homebrew version of FR again...
#85 karazhan Aug 20, 2008 14:18:35	The Nine Hells Greater God Asmodeus Archdevils Baalzebul Bel Belial Dispator Glasya Levistus Mammon Mephistopheles Nishrek Greater God Gruumsh Exarchs Bahgtru Obould Shargaas Vaprak Goddess Luthic The Supreme Throne Greater God Cyric Towers of Night Greater Goddess Shar Gods/Goddesses Sseth Talona Zehir Warriors Rest Greater God Tempus Exarchs Garagos Red Knight Uthgar Valkur Goddess (Tempus' Lover) Beshaba Lost Dominions Remnants of abandoned or destroyed dominions and the corpses of deities. Both can be harnessed and power drawn from these sources to use.
#86 karazhan Aug 20, 2008 14:20:30	What I find interesting is that both Zehir and Sseth live on Shar's plane. One more sign that she is the one to fight and beat in 4E.
#87 karazhan Aug 20, 2008 14:22:37	MarkusTay63, Perhaps with entire nations and a new continent filled with dragon overlords/rulers Tiamat's worship will rise and she can form her own dominion in time.
#88 markustay63 Aug 20, 2008 14:35:08	Thats the main trouble I'm having with it - Dragons seem to be more prominent now, with their own Kingdoms (returned Abeir, Murghôm) and Dragonborn - why Tiamet would get this 'downgrade' when 'her people' are on the rise makes little sense to me. @LK - you forgot to make any mention of Vassa in yout list. Have we heard ANYTHING about Damara yet?
#89 lord_karsus Aug 20, 2008 14:39:40	-Kara, thank you for all of that. I added a new section in my OP to reflect that information. -MT, I'll add in that bit with the Warlock Knights and Telos, but other than that, no one has mentioned anything else.
#90 karazhan Aug 20, 2008 14:54:54	MT, Your wish is my command...Damara.. King Gareth Dragonsbane united Damara and Vaasa into the unified kingdom of Bloodstone. Flash to today...the areas of Impiltur, Damara, Vaasa, Narfel, and the Great Dale are known as the Demonlands. Dragonsbane's heir was assassinated 20 years ago, which led to civil war. This allowed the Warlock Knights to take over Vaasa. King Imbrar died and Impiltur is controlled by the Fraternity of Tharos (cult of demon-worshippers). Narfel is also experiencing a renewed interest and use of warlock pacts and demonbinding. So it appears Damara is back to being a little point of light surrounded by darkness and demons.
#91 lord_karsus Aug 20, 2008 14:57:03	-Good stuff. I'll add that, too.
#92 tyrantbane Aug 20, 2008 15:26:38	Strange that some exarchs arent serving the ones I thought they would....They are often related to their original pantheon more than to their spheres... For example, Obould is the exarch of warriors and yet served Gruumsh, God of destruction...
#93 tyrantbane Aug 20, 2008 15:28:30	Also how come Beshaba is Tempus's lover??? Another part of the FR Soap....? And how come the Fire knives are in control of Westgate and forced Orbark (manshoon) to flee....Where are the Night Masks?
#94 karazhan Aug 20, 2008 15:38:46	Ya, I do not get the Beshaba thing. I mean, tick her off and your warriors all get bad luck lol.
#95 GreenKnight Aug 20, 2008 20:55:19	Here's the deity list organized so that people know which Exarchs serve who, if you're interested. [u]ARVANDOR[/u] Greater: Corellon [Deep Sashelas, Erevan Ilesere, Fenmarel Mestarine, Labelas Enoreth, Shevarash, Solonor Thelandira] Lesser: Angharradh Lesser: Garl Glittergold [Baervan Wildwanderer, Baravar Cloakshadow, Callarduran Smoothhands] BANEHOLD Greater: Bane [Abbathor, Fzoul Chembryl, Hoar, Hruggek, Maglubiyet] Lesser: Loviatar Lesser: Tiamat CELESTIA Greater: Torm Lesser: Ilmater Lesser: Bahamut THE DEEP WILDS Greater: Silvanus [Malar] Lesser: Auril Lesser: Mielikki [Shiallia] Lesser: Umberlee THE DEMONWEB PITS Greater: Lolth THE DISMAL CAVERNS Greater: Ghaunadaur DWARFHOME Greater: Moradin [Clangeddin Silverbeard, Dugmaren Brightmantle, Marthammor Duin, Thard Harr, Vergadain] Lesser: Berronar Truesilver ETERNAL SUN Greater: Amaunator [Siamorphe] Lesser: Waukeen THE FUGUE PLANE Greater: Kelemvor [Jergal] GATES OF THE MOON Greater: Selune Greater: Sune [Lliira, Sharess] Lesser: Tymora GREEN FIELDS Greater: Chauntea Lesser: Sheela Peryroyl [Arvoreen, Brandobaris, Cyrrollalee] HOUSE OF KNOWLEDGE Greater: Oghma [Milil] Lesser: Gond THE NINE HELLS Greater: Asmodeus Archdevils: Baalzebul, Bel, Belial, Dispater, Glasya, Levistus, Mammon, Mephistopheles NISHREK Greater: Gruumsh [Bahgtru, Obould, Shargaas, Vaprak] Lesser: Luthic THE SUPREME THRONE Greater: Cyric TOWERS OF NIGHT Greater: Shar Lesser: Sseth Lesser: Talona Lesser: Zehir WARRIOR'S REST Greater: Tempus [Garagos, The Red Knight, Uthgar, Valkur] Lesser: Beshaba PRIMORDIALS Akadi [Sky Home] Bazim-Gorag Grumbar [Root Hold] Istishia [Cresting Spires] Kossuth [The Undying Pyre] A couple of interesting things: 1) Banehold and Celestia are essentially reflections of each other. The Triad may be officially dead, but it looks like it's still unofficially functional, with the 'Dark Triad' I was hoping to see months back in opposition. Now if only Celestia had a couple of Exarchs in place (I would've loved to have seen Hoar and Siamorphe there, at least. Maybe Nobanion, too). 2) Ilmater moved back into Celestia (the renamed House of the Triad). His move to Brightwater doesn't seem to have lasted long. 3) Likewise, Tymora moved back in with Sune, and they all moved into Selune's place. And to top it off, after ditching the House of the Triad, Siamorphe didn't stick with Sune and crew, either. She went off to serve Amaunator in Eternal Sun. I figured that a pair of Lawful Good gods moving in with a pack of Chaotic Good gods would drive them to want to claw their eyes out. Looks like I may have been right. :P 4) It's old news, but I'm still surprised that Auril, Malar, and Umberlee now serve Silvanus. Thought for sure they'd be working for Gruumsh. 5) Still don't understand why Ghaunadaur wasn't made into a Primordial. 6) Pretty nice seeing Sseth and Zehir serving Shar. Although I figured Talona would stay in the Barrens of Doom and Despair (Banehold), moaning about Loviatar having a greater position in that domain than she. Hmm, that may be why she switched over to Shar in the first place.
#96 JudgeDookie Aug 20, 2008 20:59:11	Yeah, agree with most of your points there. Particularly thrown off with the formerly evil gods serving those who were good aligned.
#97 GreenKnight Aug 20, 2008 21:09:12	Well, Silvanus in 3E is Neutral, so they could work for him. Still, it's pretty odd that they're willing to work for a Neutral/Unaligned god, not to mention bunking alongside two good goddesses (Mielikki and Shiallia). Seems like they'd be happier working for a Chaotic Evil god like Gruumsh, especially since he's pretty much Talos. Anyone, a couple other interesting differences... 1) Chauntea - NG in 3E. Instead of being Good in 4E (the closest equivalent), she's Lawful Good. 2) Corellon - He's Unaligned in Core and Good in the Realms. Guess the Eldreth Veluuthra are still boned as far as he's concerned. 3) Bahamut - He's Lawful Good in Core, but Good in the Realms. 4) Beshaba - Went from Chaotic Evil to just plain Evil (NE/LE equivalent). 5) Ilmater - Went from Lawful Good to Good. Guess hanging out in Brightwater had an effect on him. Made him loosen up a bit, though not enough to make him decide to stick around. 6) Hoar - Poor bastard spent WAY to much time hanging around the Barrens of Doom and Despair, as he's drifted from neutrality to plain old Evil. 7) The Red Knight - She's Lawful Good, now. Guess hanging around Torm has had a positive influence on her.
#98 markustay63 Aug 20, 2008 21:10:10	I had hoped they were going to re-merge Beshaba and Tymora - isn't it weird that they didn't make any LOGICAL changes? What the hell is the point of having two Luck goddeses in the setting, when the designers went out of their way to downsize everything else? Also, I'll be keeping 'The Triad' intact IMG - I like the idea of them and the dark Three buttin' heads. I may change the line-up though, not sure... 4) It's old news, but I'm still surprised that Auril, Malar, and Umberlee now serve Silvanus. Thought for sure they'd be working for Gruumsh. They will be working for Gruumshalos IMG - the fact that the designers 'gave them' to Silvanus shows just how little thought they put into these decisions.
#99 GreenKnight Aug 20, 2008 21:24:35	I prefer Beshaba and Tymora as separate beings, myself. As for the Triad, yeah, in my version, the Triad (Torm, Bahamut, and Ilmater) will exist as an official entity, opposed by the dark three. I like the lineup, too. Makes sense to me. Torm and Ilmater are natural allies, and have been friends for a good long while, while Loviatar (Ilmater's natural enemy), resides in the Barrens of Doom and Despair, already. Makes sense to me that Loviatar would draw closer to Bane in order to gain a powerful ally against Ilmater, who himself has a powerful ally. Especially when that ally is someone who Bane utterly detests (Check out Bane's entry in Faiths & Pantheons. On the list of gods he hates the most, Torm is #1 on that list with a bullet). And out of all the other greater powers they could ally themselves with, Torm and Bane make the most sense for Bahamut and Tiamat to ally themselves with. The end result is two branches of the Faerunian Pantheon which have a LOT of pent up hostility for each other. As I've said elsewhere, when I run a Realms game, I plan on making my own version. However, this is a change that I'm definitely keeping.
#100 ywhtptgtfo Aug 20, 2008 21:38:19	-Indeed, which is what makes Halruaa's explosion so baffling. -Yes, high concentrations of magic, a phrase that I would use synonymously with "magical in nature". Don't worry, they will find a lame deux ex machina to explain away everything... Perhaps they'd say Savras was having his #2 in Halruua while WotC stuck a knife in Mystra's throat.
#101 merrikcale Aug 20, 2008 21:48:31	I prefer Beshaba and Tymora as separate beings, myself. As for the Triad, yeah, in my version, the Triad (Torm, Bahamut, and Ilmater) will exist as an official entity, opposed by the dark three. I agree, that does make plenty of sense since Bahamut has basically taken justice over in the Pantheon
#102 lord_karsus Aug 20, 2008 21:49:29	Here's the deity list organized so that people know which Exarchs serve who, if you're interested. -You're is shorter, so I'll use it.
#103 staypuft Aug 20, 2008 22:57:53	there was some complaint about the maimed god's death, but what about Helm's death? Helm was my favorite, helm was unique in that he was (IIRC) always there as the protector of Toril. He wasn't a powerful outsider who emigrated like Tyr or the Elven and Dwarven pantheons, and he wasn't an elevated mortal, he was perpetual. It would have been more satisfying to me if he had ceased to exist because his charge, Toril, ceased to exist in its previous form. Instead he and Tyr got confused and angry and Tyr killed him. At which point I presume the church of Helm just collapsed like a flan in a cupboard. (thank you Eddie Izzard for that turn of phrase) Alternatively, since a previous source refers to Helm's lingering distrust of Lathander because of the Dawn Cataclysm, and to Lathander's attempts to repeat same, when I saw Amaunator I hoped that maybe Lathander and Helm got into a scuffle and that's what made Lathander grow up. Hopefully there's either more details to follow or more details I'm missing because it currently reads as your LATHANDER has evolved! LATHANDER is now AMAUNATOR! AMAUNATOR has learned "LAWFUL"!
#104 lord_karsus Aug 20, 2008 23:02:06	your LATHANDER has evolved! LATHANDER is now AMAUNATOR! AMAUNATOR has learned "LAWFUL"! :: Looks up AMAUNATOR in the Deitidex :: AMAUNATOR The Sun Deity AMAUNATOR personifies the glory of the sun, and the structure of day and night. Stray AMAUNATORs use FLASH to blind their foes and then TELEPORT away to safety.
#105 naex Aug 21, 2008 2:17:58	I'm wondering who let Bazim-Gorag loose, that bastard was bound tight last I heard, now he is free and partying in the heart of the Elemental Chaos. At least they explained that he was a Batrachi lord who ascended, though how to primordial rather than to a god would be interesting to know. Since that would be a fun Epic Destiny to try.
#106 SmartPaladin Aug 21, 2008 3:22:52	6) Hoar - Poor bastard spent WAY to much time hanging around the Barrens of Doom and Despair, as he's drifted from neutrality to plain old Evil. Wait, are we sure Hoar is "Evil" and not just "Undecided/I could leave, but all my stuffs here..."? I hope he's not "Evil", and is at least just a dark tinted Undecided. Makes it easier to swing my Good-aligned Paladin/Star-Lock of 'em. Then again, with his home country of Chessenta gone, I could understand him becoming even more bitter... Hmm... I prefer Beshaba and Tymora as separate beings, myself. As for the Triad, yeah, in my version, the Triad (Torm, Bahamut, and Ilmater) will exist as an official entity, opposed by the dark three. I like the lineup, too. Makes sense to me. Torm and Ilmater are natural allies, and have been friends for a good long while, while Loviatar (Ilmater's natural enemy), resides in the Barrens of Doom and Despair, already. Makes sense to me that Loviatar would draw closer to Bane in order to gain a powerful ally against Ilmater, who himself has a powerful ally. Especially when that ally is someone who Bane utterly detests (Check out Bane's entry in Faiths & Pantheons. On the list of gods he hates the most, Torm is #1 on that list with a bullet). And out of all the other greater powers they could ally themselves with, Torm and Bane make the most sense for Bahamut and Tiamat to ally themselves with. The end result is two branches of the Faerunian Pantheon which have a LOT of pent up hostility for each other. As I've said elsewhere, when I run a Realms game, I plan on making my own version. However, this is a change that I'm definitely keeping. Ya know, looking at this kinda line up... I think I know why Hoar remained where he did. He wants to be handy when all the fighting starts, heh chances are, when the first swing comes, he won't care who attacks. He just wants to be there to behold the glorious Vengeance and Retribution... Torm: Hoar?! Why have you remained in such a dark and horrid place? Hoar: And miss a battle that has been brewing for countless centuries? Surely you jest...
#107 lord_karsus Aug 21, 2008 22:49:01	-Updated a few things.
#108 GreenKnight Aug 21, 2008 23:06:48	Couple updates to this list. [SBLOCK= Deities] GREATER DEITIES Amaunator: Sun (LG) Asmodeus: Sin (E) Bane: Tyranny (E) Chauntea: Life (LG) Corellon Larethian: Fey (G) Cyric: Strife (CE) Ghaunadaur: Abominations (CE) Gruumsh: Savagery (CE) Kelemvor: Death (U) Lolth: Drow (CE) Moradin: Dwarves (LG) Oghma: Knowledge (U) Selune: Moon (G) Shar: Shadows (E) Silvanus: Nature (U) Sune: Beauty (G) Tempus: War (U) Torm: Law (LG) LESSER DEITIES Angharradh: Wisdom (G) Auril: Winter (CE) Bahamut: Justice (G) Berronar Truesilver: Family (LG) Beshaba: Bad Luck (E) Garl Glittergold: Protection (G) Gond: Craft (U) Ilmater: Suffering (G) Loviatar: Pain (E) Luthnic: Caves (CE) Meilikki: Forests (G) Sheela Peryroyl: Beauty (G) Sseth: Serpents (E) Talona: Plague (CE) Tiamat: Greed (E) Tymora: Good luck (G) Umberlee: Sea (CE) Waukeen: Merchants (U) Zehir: Poison (E) EXARCHS Abbathor: Greed (E) Arvoreen: Vigilance (LG) Baervan Wildwanderer: Travel (G) Bahgtru: Brute Strength (CE) Baravar Cloakshadow: Illusions (G) Brandobaris: Thievery (U) Callarduran Smoothhands: Battle (U) Clangeddon Silverbeard: Mining (LG) Cyrrollalee: Friendship (G) Deep Sashalas: Oceans (G) Dugmaren Brightmantle: Scholarship (G) Erevan Ilesere: Mischief (U) Fenmarel Mestarine: Outcasts (U) Fzoul Chembryl: Service to Evil (E) Garagos: War (CE) Hoar: Revenge (E) Hruggek: Ambush (E) Jergal: Fatalism (U) Labelas Enoreth: Longetivity (G) Lliira: Joy (G) Maglubiyet: Goblins (E) Malar: Beasts (E) Marthammor Duin: Explorers (G) Milil: Song (G) Obould: Warriors (CE) The Red Knight: Tactics (LG) Sharess: Cats (G) Shargaas: Night (CE) Shevarash: Vengeance (U) Shiallia: Fertility (G) Siamorphe: Nobility (LG) Solonar Thelandira: Archery (G) Thard Harr: Hunting (G) Uthgar: Wildlands (U) Valkur: Sailors (G) Vaprak: Frenzy (CE) Vergadain: Wealth (U) [/sblock] In addition, according to the FRCG, "Karsus was a failed deity." :P
#109 SmartPaladin Aug 21, 2008 23:26:54	Couple updates to this list. Hoar: Revenge (E) In addition, according to the FRCG, "Karsus was a failed deity." :P 'kay, I'll bite. How is he "Evil"? His "home country" is gone, so he's probably filled with more anger and rage, and wishes to seek revenge on those responsible. But how does that change him from how he had been in 3.X?
#110 GreenKnight Aug 21, 2008 23:37:58	No idea. I'd prefer it if he were Unaligned, myself. Incidentally, here're two bits on Hoar. HIDDEN HAND OF FATE For centuries, a small cult of Hoar has dwelled in a temple fortress shrouded in the depths of the Arch Wood. The inhabitants of Archendale are known for their short tempers, grudges, arrogance, and love of intrigue—quite a few Archenfolk worship the Doombringer. This informal order of bounty hunters and vigilantes, known as the Hunters of Vengeance, enacts what it believes to be Torm’s will through the retributive hand of Hoar. (In truth, Hoar now serves Bane, who is pleased to let the misconception continue.) Priests of the Hidden Hand of Fate sponsor a number of troubadors, bounty hunters, and assassins throughout the Heartlands and coordinate a loose network of vigilantes dealing rough justice throughout the wilder stretches of the Dalelands. Religion DC 15: Bane suffered a setback when the shades razed Zhentil Keep and the Citadel of the Raven, annihilating the backbone of the Zhentarim. But what he lost then, he has more than regained. Not only did he assimilate the goblin deities under his authority, but he also gained the worship of evil dwarves through Abbathor. Thwarting Shar’s desire to take over the sphere of revenge, Bane sheltered and subjugated Hoar. He furthered his power by taking Loviatar as a consort, uniting the two faiths. Even great Tiamat now serves Bane.
#111 SmartPaladin Aug 21, 2008 23:59:14	No idea. I'd prefer it if he were Unaligned, myself. Incidentally, here're two bits on Hoar. I'm going to laugh like the insane mad-man I am if during one of the next battles between Bane and Torm, Hoar strikes out against Bane, and tells him that he believes his debt to the Dark Lord repaid.
#112 zanan Aug 22, 2008 6:54:28	Lord Karsus Lord Karsus is awesome. ... in taking nigh to no time to get myself laughing again after reading all that less than inspiring stuff he had gleaned from the FRCG. In that respect, he surely is in his own league. Then again, of course, there are not that many stone-heads of would be deities being about either.
#113 zanan Aug 22, 2008 7:08:31	ragnarok = cool Matter of factly, it has to be taken with a pinch of salt. For you have to keep in mind that the earliest versions we have of this are interpretations (sic!) of runestones, followed by sagas and the Eddas, Völuspa et al. While they give you the common and well-known version of Ragnarök, this is essentially all just mythology (i.e. not necessarily religious real world history) and "tainted" by 400 to 700 years of Christian influence. Not always directly. But those people writing these stuff had seen all their kin switching from the Old Beliefs to the Christian one and thus stories about the decline of the old deities - in "song and story" - were surely about. Whether they or ragnarök actually belonged to the Germanic religious beliefs is an entirely different matter. Loviatar is Bane's consort. Well, he likes his whipping then ...
#114 Barachiel Aug 22, 2008 9:45:41	Eh, while I don't hate the 4e-Realms, I can honestly say, I'm not using their retarded deity retcons. The ones who died, sure, I'll probably let most of them stay dead, but this "condensing" crap is being ignored. I got Faiths and Pantheons, and all three 2nd Ed books dealing with the Realm deities, and a couple of elevated-PC demigods (excuse me, Exarchs) that I think would fill in some of the gaps nicely. While i like the FRCS, I can't make a judgment call on the setting as a whole yet, because the book is obviously incomplete. When the FRPG comes out next month, I'll have a better idea what I think of the new setting as a whole.
#115 lord_karsus Aug 22, 2008 10:59:04	In addition, according to the FRCG, "Karsus was a failed deity." :P -That just cements it, that the new designers have no clue. :P ... in taking nigh to no time to get myself laughing again after reading all that less than inspiring stuff he had gleaned from the FRCG. In that respect, he surely is in his own league. Then again, of course, there are not that many stone-heads of would be deities being about either. -Ah, wasn't that one great? I just added that in, so that if people from elsewhere copied it and pasted it wholesale, I'd be able to tell, and at least I'd get some credit. ;)
#116 lord_karsus Aug 22, 2008 22:25:57	-Updated.
#117 lord_karsus Aug 23, 2008 19:34:31	-Updated.
#118 naex Aug 23, 2008 19:43:45	Nimbral disappeared after the spellplague, unsure whether destroyed as was Halruaa or like Lantan, or whether the residents shifted the islands to another plane or shrouded the islands with illusions.
#119 lord_karsus Aug 23, 2008 19:48:41	-Right.
#120 JudgeDookie Aug 23, 2008 20:19:50	Whoa--Green Knight and LK. This is wrong: - Callarduran Smoothhands: Battle (U) - Clangeddon Silverbeard: Mining (LG) You got them flip-flopped in the list. I'll be damned if Clangeddon gives up BATTLE!
#121 lord_karsus Aug 23, 2008 20:25:07	-Fixed. All better.
#122 JudgeDookie Aug 23, 2008 20:39:52	(sigh) Thank you. Sweet Bejebuz, that was scary.
#123 The_Simbul_of_Aglarond Aug 24, 2008 0:02:09	Elminster: Hears voices in his head that he fears magic will release, due to ravages from the Spellplague. He no longer practices the Art, and has isolated himself, where others believe he is an insane hermit. He is a threat to no one as long as he does not cast magic. The consequences of this would be devastating. It is worth noting that NONE of this actually appears in the FRCG. In fact, Elminster’s blurb seems to contradict a great deal of it. Much of the information stated above circulated on the web from interviews and speculative comments from Ed Greenwood, however when all is said and done its clear that the whole “insane hermit with 1,000 spellplague souls in his head” was dropped and they decided to take a more logical approach to presenting Elminster in 4E. As for what actually does appear in the FRCG: Elminster was diminished by the death of Mystra, namely in losing all the powers he wielded by being her Chosen (and presumably his cleric powers as well). That said, he still retains his immortality and his considerable arcane power. It goes on to state that he is just as intelligent, experienced, and quick-witted as before, and that his advice is still well sought after, though he is more averse to dispensing it. The Simbul: Faked her death and now lives in the Dalelands, in disguise, presumably caring and watching over Elminster. Note that it does not actually state she “faked” her death. The Simbul was involved in some great ordeal in 1425 (Year of Seven Sisters) involving Velsharoon and/or his divine remains, and most folk of Faerûn believe that she sacrificed herself in the conflagration that consumed him. It goes on to state that in truth she actually did survive and now resides in the Dalelands. While most folk believe she is dead, and out of convenience she is probably not very inclined to relieve them of that false assumption, it does not seem very likely that her intended goal in the entire affair was soley to fake her demise. In addition, she is described as a powerful mage, and the adjective is used in the present tense, implying that she is still a powerful sorcerer or wizard (or combination thereof). Velsharoon: Consumed by fire and perished because of it. Currently, his corpse is in Aglarondian hands, and is a testament to the legacy of The Simbul. I believe this can be read in a few different ways. When I read the blurb I interpreted the sentence not as if the Simbul's allies "kept" his corpse as a token, but rather that her actions, which destroyed his corpse (which was a powerful token), served to "keep" it out of evil hands, and thus that is why they honor her sacrifice. Luskan: Is destroyed during the Spellplague. Luskan was not destroyed by the Spellplauge, though currently it is arguably the most vile cesspool of criminals, ruffians, murderers, fugitives, thieves, cutthroats, and all other manner of vile individuals. In addition, it is no longer under the thumb of the Arcane Brotherhood. Imaskar: The Deep Imaskari returned and colonized the Raurin Dessert. Empress Ususi leads the nation. Worth noting that Deep Imaskar and High Imaskar are separate realms, and that Ususi has no rule over the Underdark realm. The Red Wizards: The Red Wizards have no direct connection to the land of Thay any longer... This is true of the Red Wizards who dwell in the trade enclaves in wider Faerun, whom are the ones most people in Faerûn think of when the term “Red Wizard” is used. As far as Thay is concerned, they still refer to the wizards among them as Red Wizards, while the mercantile exiles are viewed as traitors or defectors.
#124 rauric Aug 24, 2008 0:09:31	Articles in future DDis may shed more light on things light ELs mental state.
#125 JudgeDookie Aug 24, 2008 13:02:30	Articles in future DDis may shed more light on things light ELs mental state. Yeah. There was way too much talk about the "multiple personalities" and "fear of using magic" thing. While I agree with the Simbul on her points, they definitely have something in mind for El', besides what was detailed (or not) in the FRCG.
#126 naex Aug 25, 2008 18:11:16	Silverymoon has no Mythal, it got shattered in the spellplague. Pg.53
#127 gothwulfe Aug 25, 2008 19:36:51	-That just cements it, that the new designers have no clue. :P Weeelll...technically he was a diety for about 5 seconds before everythign went to hell....thus making him a failed one *snicker*
#128 GreenKnight Aug 25, 2008 20:23:54	Show
#129 JudgeDookie Aug 25, 2008 20:25:44	Karsus has never looked so sexy.
#130 hlethvagi Aug 25, 2008 20:43:56	Don't worry, they will find a lame deux ex machina to explain away everything... Perhaps they'd say Savras was having his #2 in Halruua while WotC stuck a knife in Mystra's throat. How'z about having 2 Netherese areas was one too many. Ditch Halruua because Netheril is back, baby.
#131 SmartPaladin Aug 26, 2008 0:01:10	Don't worry, they will find a lame deux ex machina to explain away everything... Perhaps they'd say Savras was having his #2 in Halruua while WotC stuck a knife in Mystra's throat. Here's hoping WotC's deux ex machina won't be as lame as Marvel's Spider-Man: One More Day...
#132 lord_karsus Aug 26, 2008 0:03:21	Karsus has never looked so sexy. -Coming from you, not that cool.
#133 SmartPaladin Aug 26, 2008 0:33:43	Show
#134 nimor Aug 26, 2008 8:30:05	Mmm, i can't seem to find anything about Mask, i wonder what happened to him
#135 lord_karsus Aug 26, 2008 10:49:42	Mmm, i can't seem to find anything about Mask, i wonder what happened to him -There's various threads discussing that.
#136 JudgeDookie Aug 26, 2008 21:44:39	-Coming from you, not that cool. Relax. I know you don't like powerful men. And I hate overbearing women. You are very safe. ;)
#137 lord_karsus Aug 27, 2008 20:17:46	-Updated. -I'm still looking for contributions, by the way, people.
#138 GreenKnight Aug 27, 2008 20:28:20	Oh, we're still doing this? I thought we were done, as the book is out. In that case, I did put an update, above. The various alignments and such. Here it is, again. [SBLOCK= Deities] GREATER DEITIES Amaunator: Sun (LG) Asmodeus: Sin (E) Bane: Tyranny (E) Chauntea: Life (LG) Corellon Larethian: Fey (G) Cyric: Strife (CE) Ghaunadaur: Abominations (CE) Gruumsh: Savagery (CE) Kelemvor: Death (U) Lolth: Drow (CE) Moradin: Dwarves (LG) Oghma: Knowledge (U) Selune: Moon (G) Shar: Shadows (E) Silvanus: Nature (U) Sune: Beauty (G) Tempus: War (U) Torm: Law (LG) LESSER DEITIES Angharradh: Wisdom (G) Auril: Winter (CE) Bahamut: Justice (G) Berronar Truesilver: Family (LG) Beshaba: Bad Luck (E) Garl Glittergold: Protection (G) Gond: Craft (U) Ilmater: Suffering (G) Loviatar: Pain (E) Luthnic: Caves (CE) Meilikki: Forests (G) Sheela Peryroyl: Beauty (G) Sseth: Serpents (E) Talona: Plague (CE) Tiamat: Greed (E) Tymora: Good luck (G) Umberlee: Sea (CE) Waukeen: Merchants (U) Zehir: Poison (E) EXARCHS Abbathor: Greed (E) Arvoreen: Vigilance (LG) Baervan Wildwanderer: Travel (G) Bahgtru: Brute Strength (CE) Baravar Cloakshadow: Illusions (G) Brandobaris: Thievery (U) Callarduran Smoothhands: Mining (U) Clangeddin Silverbeard: Battle (LG) Cyrrollalee: Friendship (G) Deep Sashelas: Oceans (G) Dugmaren Brightmantle: Scholarship (G) Erevan Ilesere: Mischief (U) Fenmarel Mestarine: Outcasts (U) Fzoul Chembryl: Service to Evil (E) Garagos: War (CE) Hoar: Revenge (E) Hruggek: Ambush (E) Jergal: Fatalism (U) Labelas Enoreth: Longetivity (G) Lliira: Joy (G) Maglubiyet: Goblins (E) Malar: Beasts (E) Marthammor Duin: Explorers (G) Milil: Song (G) Obould: Warriors (CE) The Red Knight: Tactics (LG) Sharess: Cats (G) Shargaas: Night (CE) Shevarash: Vengeance (U) Shiallia: Fertility (G) Siamorphe: Nobility (LG) Solonar Thelandira: Archery (G) Thard Harr: Hunting (G) Uthgar: Wildlands (U) Valkur: Sailors (G) Vaprak: Frenzy (CE) Vergadain: Wealth (U) [/sblock]
#139 lord_karsus Aug 27, 2008 20:31:43	Oh, we're still doing this? I thought we were done, as the book is out. -Yes. This is for the people who don't have the book.
#140 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 27, 2008 20:47:21	Lord Karsus is awesome. Indeed.:D Thanks for the list, it's really helped me catch up.
#141 lord_karsus Aug 27, 2008 20:48:45	-Anything for you.
#142 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 27, 2008 20:49:48	-Anything for you. :embarrass One thing, regarding the Simbul's entry--when Ed Greenwood heard talk of the Simbul caring for El, he hinted that it was more likely the other way around.
#143 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 27, 2008 21:02:00	5) Ilmater - Went from Lawful Good to Good. Guess hanging out in Brightwater had an effect on him. Made him loosen up a bit, though not enough to make him decide to stick around. Awww, he finally got to indulge in a few orgies. That's touching.
#144 GreenKnight Aug 27, 2008 21:06:55	I was actually referring to hanging around with a bunch of Chaotic Good gods. :P I doubt anything of the sort happened. After all, if it did, then why in the world did he leave?
#145 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 27, 2008 21:08:46	I was actually referring to hanging around with a bunch of Chaotic Good gods. :P I doubt anything of the sort happened. After all, if it did, then why in the world did he leave? Ah, good point.
#146 GreenKnight Aug 27, 2008 21:10:41	I was kind of expecting this to happen with both him and Siamorphe. Think I remember saying sometime around the release of Grand History of the Realms that it'd be about a month before the two of them were driven nuts from hanging around that place and ditched it. Looks like I was wrong, as it took nine months. :D They were a pair of extremely lawful gods moving into a very chaotic domain, full of chaotic gods. Can't imagine it agreed with them all that much, although it did seem to leave its mark, as Ilmater's now less lawful while Siamorphe is more good. I'm not to happy about that, truth be told, or Bahamut being good, but I explained those reasons on another thread so no need to repeat them, here.
#147 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 27, 2008 21:27:50	If you have a link to that post, I'd be interested in seeing it. If not, that's all right.
#148 SmartPaladin Aug 27, 2008 21:33:25	I was kind of expecting this to happen with both him and Siamorphe. Think I remember saying sometime around the release of Grand History of the Realms that it'd be about a month before the two of them were driven nuts from hanging around that place and ditched it. Looks like I was wrong, as it took nine months. :D They were a pair of extremely lawful gods moving into a very chaotic domain, full of chaotic gods. Can't imagine it agreed with them all that much, although it did seem to leave its mark, as Ilmater's now less lawful while Siamorphe is more good. I'm not to happy about that, truth be told, or Bahamut being good, but I explained those reasons on another thread so no need to repeat them, here. Hmm... Quick! Let's God-nap Hoar and send him to Brightwater! Or maybe to Warrior's Rest, let him wrestle a few dead warrior's... Chessanta was the Realms "Greece/Rome". Was, being the key word. *sighs*
#149 GreenKnight Aug 27, 2008 21:38:18	Eh, I don't feel like tracking it down. To sum up, I got three problems with that: 1) Ilmater was Lawful Good in prior editions, and Bahamut is Lawful Good in core. Is there any real need to make them Good in the 4E Realms? For instance, I can understand making Corellon Good in the 4E Realms, even though he's Unaligned in core, but what was the reason for that change? 2) The two of them being Good essentially prevents them from forming a new Triad. If they were all three Lawful Good, then one could have a Paladin who's dedicated to the Triad, rather than just one of them. Having them be different alignments prevents that, so no Triadic Knights. 3) The 4E Realms is pretty lacking in LG gods altogether. Things are pretty even, alignment-wise, among Greater Gods, and at least there's variety when you get to the Exarchs. But they're really out of wack when it comes to Lesser Gods. The numbers are as follows: Lawful Good: 1 Good: 7 Unaligned: 2 Evil: 5 Chaotic Evil: 4 Only a single LG Lesser God, Berronar Truesilver. Had Ilmater and Bahamut remained Lawful Good, then the numbers would be... Lawful Good: 3 Good: 5 Unaligned: 2 Evil: 5 Chaotic Evil: 4 The numbers don't have to exactly match, of course, but I just like having each alignment being roughly on par (especially after the way the Greater Gods worked out, with 3 or 4 for each alignment), or at least have some variety for each alignment. Those're my problems, anyway. Hmm... Quick! Let's God-nap Hoar and send him to Brightwater! Hmm, not a bad idea. He's bound to lighten up after streaking and TPing Eternal Sun a few times with Lliira. :D
#150 SmartPaladin Aug 27, 2008 21:44:18	Eh, I don't feel like tracking it down. To sum up, I got three problems with that: 1) Ilmater was Lawful Good in prior editions, and Bahamut is Lawful Good in core. Is there any real need to make them Good in the 4E Realms? For instance, I can understand making Corellon Good in the 4E Realms, even though he's Unaligned in core, but what was the reason for that change? 2) The two of them being Good essentially prevents them from forming a new Triad. If they were all three Lawful Good, then one could have a Paladin who's dedicated to the Triad, rather than just one of them. Having them be different alignments prevents that, so no Triadic Knights. 3) The 4E Realms is pretty lacking in LG gods altogether. Things are pretty even, alignment-wise, among Greater Gods, and at least there's variety when you get to the Exarchs. But they're really out of wack when it comes to Lesser Gods. The numbers are as follows: Lawful Good: 1 Good: 7 Unaligned: 2 Evil: 5 Chaotic Evil: 4 Only a single LG Lesser God, Berronar Truesilver. Had Ilmater and Bahamut remained Lawful Good, then the numbers would be... Lawful Good: 3 Good: 5 Unaligned: 2 Evil: 5 Chaotic Evil: 4 The numbers don't have to exactly match, of course, but I just like having each alignment being roughly on par (especially after the way the Greater Gods worked out, with 3 or 4 for each alignment), or at least have some variety for each alignment. Those're my problems, anyway. Maybe we'll get lucky and the FRPG will have a one-step rule for Paladin's... Yeah, probably not... Hmm, not a bad idea. He's bound to lighten up after streaking and TPing Eternal Sun a few times with Lliira. :D Yeah, and then there's all the entertainment to be found in him trying to think of a fitting form of retribution for his "God-napping". :P
#151 sfdragon Aug 27, 2008 22:38:50	that is two different corellon, the phb is lerenthian, or so im told, and the FR/GH is lerthethian.
#152 lord_karsus Aug 27, 2008 22:41:11	that is two different corellon, the phb is lerenthian, or so im told, and the FR/GH is lerthethian. -Come again?
#153 SmartPaladin Aug 27, 2008 22:56:17	Hoar: Revenge (E) Shevarash: Vengeance (U) Ya know, after thinking about FR3.X Hoar, and FR4.0 Hoar, I found myself wondering about Shevarash... And now, as I look at both God's together, I find my sense of "WTF?!" even greater... Hoar has always been moody and bitter, that's a given, but Shevarash hasn't been any better when you think about it... I donno, I guess outta both, I'd think it be Shevarrash going evil long before Hoar. Hoar just has it out for everyone who has ever wronged anyone, Shevarash has it out for a whole race, even going so far as to make an oath to never smile or laugh again until Lolth and her like were all dead...
#154 lord_karsus Aug 27, 2008 23:00:30	Hoar has always been moody and bitter, that's a given, but Shevarash hasn't been any better when you think about it... -Shevarash certainly has a reason for vengeance. His family and friends killed in the Dark Court Slaughter. He made a pact with the Seldarine to never smile again until the last Drow was slain. In attaining divinity, his vow increased, as he would never smile until Lolth herself was slain...
#155 SmartPaladin Aug 27, 2008 23:50:24	-Shevarash certainly has a reason for vengeance. His family and friends killed in the Dark Court Slaughter. He made a pact with the Seldarine to never smile again until the last Drow was slain. In attaining divinity, his vow increased, as he would never smile until Lolth herself was slain... True, though I kind of wonder where Retribution is. :P
#156 sfdragon Aug 28, 2008 2:25:30	-Come again? my bad, its the phb is just corellon, and frcs is Corellon Larethian.
#157 zanan Aug 28, 2008 3:10:51	-Shevarash certainly has a reason for vengeance. His family and friends killed in the Dark Court Slaughter. He made a pact with the Seldarine to never smile again until the last Drow was slain. In attaining divinity, his vow increased, as he would never smile until Lolth herself was slain... BTW, it is always kind of funny, this elven hatred and vengeance babble, especially if it comes to Shevarash et al. Most of the hatred levelled at the elves resulted from the magic that caused all dark elves to go beneath the surface. True, the Ilythiiri were fighting a "dirty" war - from an elven viewpoint. Not that the Vyshaan were shying away from genocide either. Anyway, the Descent turned most of the dark elves (dying in their thousands immediately post - Descent) who weren't already on the path of evil to the darker side and their vicious attacks on anything elven is fully understandable, even though one does not need to condone it. And on those retributive actions by the drow an elf, whose race was responsible for the Descent* in the first place, starts his personal vendetta against the drow. The Sheverashan story in Realms of the Elves gives a descent enough view on them and one hardly would embrace such embittered people any more than an evil faith - as a gamer. Unless you want to go drow-hunting. *Clever people will happen by saying that the dark elves (or Wendonai / Lolth) were actually responsible, but that is the easy route - taken of the elven faction - in a complex situation.
#158 SmartPaladin Aug 28, 2008 4:15:37	BTW, it is always kind of funny, this elven hatred and vengeance babble, especially if it comes to Shevarash et al. Most of the hatred levelled at the elves resulted from the magic that caused all dark elves to go beneath the surface. True, the Ilythiiri were fighting a "dirty" war - from an elven viewpoint. Not that the Vyshaan were shying away from genocide either. Anyway, the Descent turned most of the dark elves (dying in their thousands immediately post - Descent) who weren't already on the path of evil to the darker side and their vicious attacks on anything elven is fully understandable, even though one does not need to condone it. And on those retributive actions by the drow an elf, whose race was responsible for the Descent* in the first place, starts his personal vendetta against the drow. The Sheverashan story in Realms of the Elves gives a descent enough view on them and one hardly would embrace such embittered people any more than an evil faith - as a gamer. Unless you want to go drow-hunting. *Clever people will happen by saying that the dark elves (or Wendonai / Lolth) were actually responsible, but that is the easy route - taken of the elven faction - in a complex situation. Don't look at me, there's a reason for the saying "War is Hell". And both sides have twisted the tale so much, that trully no-one knows the truth. Yes, that means that even if a true and "real" cannon answer comes to light, answering that question, I would throw it out with nothing but a "Perhaps." I hate conflict, I hate battles, wars, mindless and pointless blood spilling. Even if a War, a battle, had a true and noble purpose, I would curse it for the waste of life it brings in it's wake. Which is funny in a way, when you think on how I am the "Paladin of Hoar", a bitter and moody god. As a "Hoarite" I believe more in a Balance, and feel that is what true Retribution is. Hoar repays evil with evil, and good with good. He strives to keep things Balanced. In a way, I picture Hoar as a God, who would come upon a orphan child, who has had to steal just to survive, punish the child for the crime, and then take the child under his care. It is a case of "Though I have punished you for your own wrong doing's, I cannot leave you to your unjust fate." Now that I think about it, I think that's how one of my Cleric's of Hoar came into being... A lay member of Hoar found him, beat him senseless, then carried him off to some quiet remote "temple" and cared for him. That's right, I just jumped from Shevarus back to Hoar in how short amount of time? :P
#159 estelindis Aug 28, 2008 4:38:23	Lord Karsus is awesome. How is this a change? :P
#160 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 28, 2008 14:41:16	Eh, I don't feel like tracking it down. To sum up, I got three problems with that: Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I was thinking about one thing though: 2) The two of them being Good essentially prevents them from forming a new Triad. If they were all three Lawful Good, then one could have a Paladin who's dedicated to the Triad, rather than just one of them. Having them be different alignments prevents that, so no Triadic Knights. Couldn't that just be fudged? Don't let the one-step rule get in the way of a good idea (at least in your own games).
#161 GreenKnight Aug 28, 2008 14:58:11	True enough. Rest assured, in my own home games I'm going to be doing drastically different things. Just thinking in terms of LFR here, though. I had this whole idea for opposing the Banite controlled Zhents and Zhentarim for my LFR character, only to find out they blew up Zhentil Keep and the Zhentarim is now controlled by Cyricists. So much for that idea. ;)
#162 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 28, 2008 14:59:29	Ah, too bad.
#163 SmartPaladin Aug 28, 2008 15:02:21	Hmm? Did you two say something? *goes back to trying to come up with the Heresy of Assuran* Wait, the Cyricists have control of the Zhentarim? Again?
#164 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 28, 2008 20:07:20	Hmm? Did you two say something? *goes back to trying to come up with the Heresy of Assuran* Wait, the Cyricists have control of the Zhentarim? Again? Yes.
#165 lord_karsus Aug 28, 2008 21:29:17	How is this a change? :P -Good point.
#166 SmartPaladin Aug 28, 2008 22:35:08	Yes. huh, think there were any Zhent's that were just sitting around after the Cyricists took over the Zhentarim again mutter about how they hope it doesn't go as sour as it did last time? :P
#167 ikki Aug 29, 2008 2:51:51	Silverymoon has no Mythal, it got shattered in the spellplague. Pg.53 Silly me who tought mythals were immune... Well, im quite officially alienated on a huge scale.
#168 ikki Aug 29, 2008 2:56:28	so old el is now a drooling loonie with alzheimer... constantly soiling himself and calling simbul mom... or maybe granny... and happy when he gets gruel or to sleep holding his dear pipe.. which he has no idea what it is, or even what a pipe in general is, it just makes him feel good. Like a favorite dirty rag for a 2yo.. Probly sleeps 18 hours of the day too.
#169 SmartPaladin Aug 29, 2008 3:00:58	so old el is now a drooling loonie with alzheimer... constantly soiling himself and calling simbul mom... or maybe granny... and happy when he gets gruel or to sleep holding his dear pipe.. which he has no idea what it is, or even what a pipe in general is, it just makes him feel good. Like a favorite dirty rag for a 2yo.. Probly sleeps 18 hours of the day too. I don't think he's that out of it...
#170 sfdragon Aug 29, 2008 4:01:41	Silly me who tought mythals were immune... Well, im quite officially alienated on a huge scale. ummm Silverymoon did NOT HAVE and NEVER HAD a true Mythal. they had a quasi mythal... Waterdeep likely lost their mythal too
#171 keveras Aug 29, 2008 5:07:33	Silverymoon's Mythal was a wizard mythal, as distinguished from high mage mythals of various elven cities, e.g. Myth Nantar. ;)
#172 lord_karsus Aug 29, 2008 10:47:06	-On Mythal discussion: More information on Mythals can be found in Elves of Faerûn. That said, Myth Drannor also had a Wizardly Mythal, and it's Mythal still remains, does it not?
#173 keveras Aug 29, 2008 10:59:32	It's still there, yes. Though it blocks access to the Feywild and the other planes.
#174 lord_karsus Aug 29, 2008 13:04:45	-Massively updated, thanks to info shared by CP.
#175 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 29, 2008 14:12:31	The list is a big help, as always. Is there any information to be found on Tethyr?
#176 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 29, 2008 14:13:32	Silly me who tought mythals were immune... Mythals are immune to the Spellplague unless they aren't. :P
#177 GreenKnight Aug 29, 2008 14:16:13	Yep, pages 178-179. Here's a brief snippet: Streetwise DC 10: Queen Anais has had a troubled rule, starting with the machinations of her half-sister Evonne Linden, who made a play for the throne. In 1469 DR, all the queen’s nieces and nephews were slain in what has come to be called the Children’s Massacre—all except for her niece Ysabel, the only surviving heir to the throne. That same night, in a coordinated attack in another town, Evonne Linden was also killed.
#178 lord_karsus Aug 29, 2008 14:31:13	Mythals are immune to the Spellplague unless they aren't. :P -All toasters toast toast. Yep, pages 178-179. Here's a brief snippet: -So, that leaves the status of the kingdom...where?
#179 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 29, 2008 14:59:26	-All toasters toast toast. I see what the problem is... Too many TOASTERS! Too many TOASTERS! Too many TOASTERS! GK: Thanks for the snippet about Tethyr, though I agree that it'd be nice to have more. Also, what's with that independent duchy that broke off from the realm?
#180 thecasualoblivion Aug 29, 2008 15:49:19	They don't really give any real answer on Elminster in the FRCG. He lives on the farm by himself and tells people to get lost, and is reputed to be crazy. That explains nothing. He could be crazy, or he could just be laying low and pretending to be crazy to keep visitors away. He could have lost his power, or he could be pretending to have lost his power. He could be somebody entirely different pretending to be Elminster for all we know. You just don't know. Until some sourcebook or novel sets things in stone what the story is, the subject of Elminster is left to individual DMs.
#181 fodigg Aug 29, 2008 15:56:43	Until some sourcebook or novel sets things in stone what the story is, the subject of Elminster is left to individual DMs. I like it.
#182 SmartPaladin Aug 30, 2008 0:19:29	They don't really give any real answer on Elminster in the FRCG. He lives on the farm by himself and tells people to get lost, and is reputed to be crazy. That explains nothing. He could be crazy, or he could just be laying low and pretending to be crazy to keep visitors away. He could have lost his power, or he could be pretending to have lost his power. He could be somebody entirely different pretending to be Elminster for all we know. You just don't know. Until some sourcebook or novel sets things in stone what the story is, the subject of Elminster is left to individual DMs. If I ever DM in the Realms, I think I'll treat Elminster like Belgarath the Sorcerer. That kind of wisdom, mixed in with mischievous, plus the wenching. Sounds like "Grandfather" to me. :P
#183 ody_saraph_of_karsus Aug 31, 2008 1:18:54	It might be a silly question but: does Torm still has the same holy symbol?
#184 SmartPaladin Aug 31, 2008 2:10:13	It might be a silly question but: does Torm still has the same holy symbol? That's a good question. Were any holy symbols changed/updated?
#185 GreenKnight Aug 31, 2008 2:38:17	It might be a silly question but: does Torm still has the same holy symbol? That's a good question. Were any holy symbols changed/updated? Asmodeus: Same symbol as that in the 4E DMG, except that it's on a ring. Bane: It's changed to reflect the symbol he has in the 4E DMG. Chauntea: A variation of her 3E symbol. Corellon: Same as the 4E PHB, sans the banner. Cyric: No change. Gruumsh: Same as 4E DMG. Kelemvor: No change. Lolth: Same as 4E DMG. Moradin: Same as 4E PHB, sans the warhammer. Oghma: No change. Selune: No change. Shar: No change. Silvanus: No change. Sune: No change. Tempus: No change. Torm: No change.
#186 fillow Aug 31, 2008 11:28:26	Good stuff ! Thanks GreenKnight.
#187 lord_karsus Aug 31, 2008 15:52:59	That's a good question. Were any holy symbols changed/updated? -Quite a few. Most notably, Bane's. You can ask Rin, when I saw it, I just kinda pointed and had this face:
#188 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 31, 2008 20:24:42	-Quite a few. Most notably, Bane's. You can ask Rin, when I saw it, I just kinda pointed and had this face: LOL! By the way, I don't think the symbols themselves are literally rings, banners, necklaces, and whatnot. I think those illustrations are just showing how they could be used by PCs.
#189 merrikcale Aug 31, 2008 22:52:01	- I just kinda pointed and had this face: in fairness, you always look like that
#190 rastlinie Sep 01, 2008 8:52:53	Does anyone know when Tyr died? I was looking at playing the son of my old paladin of Tyr in the new FR campaign and the when is kind of important. Based on the way the new paladin powers are given I could still play him since Tyr has only been dead "a few decades" and he is a dwarf. But I am working on his history and need more details to develope his personal timeline. Thanks Rastlin Old LC Fan Recent LG Fan Looking forward to LFR so far
#191 lord_karsus Sep 03, 2008 23:03:09	Does anyone know when Tyr died? -CaballeroVerde (:P) just asked Rich today, so hopefully, he'll be able to give us an answer.
#192 GreenKnight Sep 03, 2008 23:04:32	That's Don CaballeroVerde to you, peon. :P
#193 gadodel Sep 05, 2008 1:10:32	Maybe I missed it, but any word on the following: Durnan Mirt The Knights of Myth Drannor Deepshadow
#194 elbereth_silverleaf Sep 06, 2008 3:03:27	This is an example of a corporation breaking something that wasn't broken purely to generate more revenue. I'm sorry, but Sun & Moon elves are ELVES not some contrived race WoTC is trying to shoehorn into a ret-conned "Abeir" Toril. What is the offspring of a human & a Moon Elf now? A 1/2 eladrin?? Do 1/2 eladrins inherit those l33t way k001 glowing eyes!!!? Sheeese. Ed's name was slapped on this crap to give it a veneer of respectability. (I would luuuuve to know how many pieces of silver he was paid to betray his fans!) This hatchet job was full of vague generalities with no substance. A complete waste of money... When I bought this drek I kept my receipt, returned the offal for a full refund and bought an iced mocha frappuccino with my money which was definitely more filling than this pi** poor excuse for a campaign setting.
#195 msatran Sep 06, 2008 3:07:50	I actually had considered sending Wizards a dice bag with thirty silver dimes in it, but I was concerned that given the editing quality of the first printing of the 4E PHB, that they might miss the symbolism.
#196 Belorin Sep 06, 2008 3:37:52	People are still complaining about this? Bel
#197 elbereth_silverleaf Sep 06, 2008 3:47:07	Another thing that completely confounds me is why WoTC can't seem to comprehend that a world can have literally hundreds of different gods. Not just aspects of the same god but totally different gods in their own right who might be patrons of the same or very closely related concerns. Gods of War- Athena, Ares, Indra, Ishtar, Ashur, Nergal, Camaxtli, Sekhmet, Morrigan, Minerva, Futsu-Nushi-no-Kami, Chemosh, Camulus, Mars. Gods of Sky, Lightning, Weather & Mountains- Tlaloc, Baal, Enlil, Zeus, Tuatha Da Danaan, & yes Yahweh (Diety of the Jews, the basis for the male diety Allah and part of Christianity's polytheistic trinity.) All completely individual gods/goddesses in their own cultures...not lesser gods or aspects of a god in some alien faith.
#198 zanan Sep 06, 2008 8:33:14	... only noted today that Selûne actually became a Greater Goddess. It would have been better if she had been made unaligned (CN) rather than "straight good", but anyway ...
#199 lord_karsus Sep 06, 2008 11:14:21	-Updated.
#200 altharion Sep 06, 2008 15:39:11	Since I'm new here I'll start with saying hello. Now, since I've been out of the whole FR thing for some time I'm wondering if anyone would be kind enough to update me on the status of following groups/people in 4e: Moonstars - still around in some shape or form? Khelben "Blackstaff" - I heard he's dead. If true how did it happen? Seven Sisters - what's the deal with Dove, Storm and Laeral? Liriel Baenre - any word of what happened to her? I lost track of her since Ellaine Cunningham's Starlight and Shadows series. Thanks for any info you can give me and good work on the awesome list of 4e lore changes!
#201 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Sep 06, 2008 20:02:44	Since I'm new here I'll start with saying hello. Hello. Now, since I've been out of the whole FR thing for some time I'm wondering if anyone would be kind enough to update me on the status of following groups/people in 4e: Moonstars - still around in some shape or form? I'm not sure. Khelben "Blackstaff" - I heard he's dead. If true how did it happen? It's all explained in the novel Blackstaff. Seven Sisters - what's the deal with Dove, Storm and Laeral? I think exact information about them is unknown at this time. Liriel Baenre - any word of what happened to her? I lost track of her since Ellaine Cunningham's Starlight and Shadows series. There's a short story about her in Best of the Realms: The Stories of Elaine Cunnningham. It's set in 1374 DR. Whatever happens after that hasn't been accounted for.
#202 merrikcale Sep 06, 2008 20:49:35	Moonstars - still around in some shape or form? Is that a doo-wop band? Khelben "Blackstaff" - I heard he's dead. If true how did it happen? a freak toaster accident what's the deal with Dove, Storm and Laeral? They're a folk band out of Frisco Liriel Baenre - any word of what happened to her? I lost track of her since Ellaine Cunningham's Starlight and Shadows series. you were tracking her? how the heck were you doing that?
#203 altharion Sep 07, 2008 5:40:07	Hello. I'm not sure. It's all explained in the novel Blackstaff. I think exact information about them is unknown at this time. There's a short story about her in Best of the Realms: The Stories of Elaine Cunnningham. It's set in 1374 DR. Whatever happens after that hasn't been accounted for. Thank you for the information.
#204 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Sep 08, 2008 12:46:52	Thank you for the information. You're welcome.
#205 fillow Sep 08, 2008 13:11:57	About Moonstars, I believe they joined back the Harpers...
#206 altharion Sep 08, 2008 13:31:12	About Moonstars, I believe they joined back the Harpers... That makes sense. They were created as Khelben's personal agents and with him dead it makes sense for the organisation to be gone as well.
#207 fillow Sep 08, 2008 13:46:21	About the Seven Sisters : Qilue is Show dead ! It happened in 1378DR when Eilistrae used her body and made her sacrificed herself.
#208 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Sep 08, 2008 13:52:11	That makes sense. They were created as Khelben's personal agents and with him dead it makes sense for the organisation to be gone as well. Not when you consider that Khelben's knowledge and goals still live on in the current Blackstaff.
#209 karazhan Sep 08, 2008 16:52:55	The Moonstars are actually being reformed to fight the corruption in Waterdeep. They did not merge with the harpers.
#210 lord_karsus Sep 08, 2008 21:10:00	-Updated.
#211 ikki Sep 09, 2008 1:41:50	The Moonstars are actually being reformed to fight the corruption in Waterdeep. They did not merge with the harpers. kinda funny considering the once rather spread out group. Mistmaster, malchor harpell, a shadow thief top leader.. a vampire.. bards etc Shouldnt such an organisation instead be fighting the blue flame or perhaps keeping the rune in check... But no, they go after some corrupt politicans of a single city.. tss..
#212 lord_karsus Sep 09, 2008 10:01:32	kinda funny considering the once rather spread out group. Mistmaster, malchor harpell, a shadow thief top leader.. a vampire.. bards etc Shouldnt such an organisation instead be fighting the blue flame or perhaps keeping the rune in check... But no, they go after some corrupt politicans of a single city.. tss.. -Don't know if you're being sarcastic or anything, but...Those other things? Ain't their problem.
#213 lord_karsus Sep 10, 2008 11:30:48	-Updated, to include the new map of Faerûn.
#214 rauric Sep 14, 2008 9:03:18	kinda funny considering the once rather spread out group. Mistmaster, malchor harpell, a shadow thief top leader.. a vampire.. bards etc Shouldnt such an organisation instead be fighting the blue flame or perhaps keeping the rune in check... But no, they go after some corrupt politicans of a single city.. tss.. Things change though. Organizations do not always stick with their same goals over time. With the magic upheaval and changes due to their missing leaders many Moonstars and Harpers have to go into hiding and star from the ground up again. In 100 years a groups goals can change greatly.
#215 keveras Sep 14, 2008 9:26:33	-Don't know if you're being sarcastic or anything, but...Those other things? Ain't their problem. I personally don't think that the old (3e) Moonstars had such a 'I don't care for other peoples lifes' attitude. Now with the new guys, it's possible that they think in such a way. Things change though. Organizations do not always stick with their same goals over time. With the magic upheaval and changes due to their missing leaders many Moonstars and Harpers have to go into hiding and star from the ground up again. In 100 years a groups goals can change greatly. Right. Especially, as you said, when their leaders are gone. (e.g. Khelben - he was the only cool chosen)
#216 kend Sep 14, 2008 18:42:39	Sorry if this has already been asked. What happened to Thesk? I remember reading something in "The Grand History of the Realms" that there was a famine and it struck Thesk particularly hard but otherwise I haven't heard or read anything about it.
#217 JudgeDookie Sep 14, 2008 20:57:52	Sorry if this has already been asked. What happened to Thesk? I remember reading something in "The Grand History of the Realms" that there was a famine and it struck Thesk particularly hard but otherwise I haven't heard or read anything about it. Thesk is still there. Influenced quite a bit by Kara Tur these days. Or, at least a Kara Turian.
#218 kend Sep 14, 2008 20:59:49	Thank you Judge
#219 JudgeDookie Sep 14, 2008 21:39:33	Thank you Judge Yup. Hit a bookstore and read pg. 182 of the FRCG. 'Bout all you gonna get.
#220 ody_saraph_of_karsus Sep 18, 2008 5:40:22	Why isn't this thread on a sticky yet ?
#221 lord_karsus Sep 18, 2008 10:20:27	-I don't know...Good idea, though, and next update I do, I'll have this stickied.
#222 oluevara Sep 29, 2008 16:04:56	Sorry if this has already been asked. What happened to Thesk? I remember reading something in "The Grand History of the Realms" that there was a famine and it struck Thesk particularly hard but otherwise I haven't heard or read anything about it. The famine in Thesk was a plot hook to get those shou migrants to disperse all over the realms, and particularly to the Dragon Reach area and the new country of Nathlan, IIRC.
#223 ORC_Chaos Jan 21, 2009 22:18:55	I’ve removed content from this thread because Off Topic Disruption is a violation of the Code of Conduct. You can review the Code of Conduct here: http://forums.gleemax.com/community_coc.php
#224 JudgeDookie Jan 21, 2009 22:22:02	Well, then!! I'll make the assumption that Ody_Saraph_of_Cyric, really isn't Ody. Surprise.
#225 lord_karsus Apr 23, 2009 21:25:13	-Bumped for another poster. Is anyone else having problems with links? I keep getting a blank screen and don't know if it's working or not...