It's official. I'm so bored that I can't even raise the willpower to shake my booty anymore. So here we are....
We've been debating this whole FR 4e crap for a little over seven years now and I...
...wait...
...my bad. Its been over seven years that we've been debating Bush, not FR.
See? I'm bored.
Anyway, since we've all gone back and forth on this thing, I wanted to get a take on what we believe is the worst thing about the new Realms and what we think is the best thing about the new Realms.
---------------------------------------
EXAMPLE POST:
I love that Eliminster now spends all his time in spandex!
(If you're a chick, this is)I loath that the Shadovar no longer allow Krispy Kreme to franchise in Sembia
(no offense Weight Watchers) --------------------------------------
If we can keep it civil, then I'll try to poll things out as it goes along.
Oh, and by the way Karsus, we have already established that it doesn't matter if you answer a question, so don't bother with stating your opinion. ;)
I loath that N*Sync was added to the pantheon.
I love that Drizzt gave up on being good and carved himself an empire out of the blood and torment of the innocent.
I loath that N*Sync was added to the pantheon.
You
! I'm trying to create a serious post here and you have to jump in with your 'N Sync crap. Especially when we all know they were elevated in Eberron and NOT Forgotten Realms!.
What a jerk.
As far as 'N Sync (I looked it up. Your "spelling" is correct.) -- I refer you to the preview article:
1372: The Year of Bye-Bye-Bye.
So there.
Damn, Gleemax backups.
Heh, sorry. I just don't think there's really enough KNOWN yet about the "new" Realms to give informed answers, so I did my best with what little preview material we have available.
As far as 'N Sync (I looked it up. Your "spelling" is correct.) -- I refer you to the preview article:
So there.
So I go over to another thread and hear about how somebody doesn't like, nor have the time, to be **** about things. Then I come back here and see that I must clench my butt cheeks in defense.
We do know some things. And there is definitely enough around here posted to know people have an opinion. I'm simply trying to get the opinion as it stands.
As for you being uninformed about things--PUH-lease! Give me a break already. We all know that godhood will be awarded to the Backstreet Boys long before 'N Sync gets a turn.
You really should read up more.
You know, I can't tell if we're just being bored together, or if I'm actually getting under your skin a little bit. I suspect the former, as the apotheosis of the Backstreet Boys could ONLY be a an off-color joke (well, the younger Wahlburg, MAYBE), but enough doubt exists to make me hesitant to pull out the big guns.
Chill, my man. You're the first light of the night. ;)
Did I just rap?--yeah, baby!!
My apologies. I was sure that the mention of 'N Sync or the Backstreet boys could only be regarded as ridiculous. Guess I was wrong.
But, please. Lets get back to the love and loath, shall we? I've heard so much bickering about everything that I would love to hear some specifics.
Backstreet Boys ARE GODS!!
(in FR 5.7.8)
Oh, and by the way Karsus, we have already established that it doesn't matter if you answer a question, so don't bother with stating your opinion. ;)
-Was it just me, in that situation, or were you as befuddled?
Ignore me--this post is a figment of your imagination.
Damn, Gleemax backups.
No.....I see it quite clearly.
-Was it just me, in that situation, or were you as befuddled?
I think we've created a new spell.......
Karsus's Befuddlement
Level-3 V
Rang:
Close 50ft.+25/lvl
Will Partial, see text
Target makes random posts that make no sense. Partial, target may make posts that make sense to himself and one other person.
Material Component: Internet access and a computer.
...As for you being uninformed about things--PUH-lease! Give me a break already. We all know that godhood will be awarded to the Backstreet Boys long before 'N Sync gets a turn.
You really should read up more.
Or watch more video: Battle of the Boy Bands
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how one solves this particular argument. :D
I think we've created a new spell.......
Karsus's Befuddlement
Level-3 V
Rang:
Close 50ft.+25/lvl
Will Partial, see text
Target makes random posts that make no sense. Partial, target may make posts that make sense to himself and one other person.
Material Component: Internet access and a computer.
-I think you're on to something...
-Was it just me, in that situation, or were you as befuddled?
I wouldn't say "befuddled." It made perfect sense in an illogical way. ;)
I think we've created a new spell.......
Karsus's Befuddlement
Level-3 V
Rang:
Close 50ft.+25/lvl
Will Partial, see text
Target makes random posts that make no sense. Partial, target may make posts that make sense to himself and one other person.
Material Component: Internet access and a computer.
Rock on! Now that you've made this spell available, the masses can rise and we can leave Karsus drolling like a stooge! No longer will we have to stand corrected with our own misinformation!
Freedom!!
Or watch more video: Battle of the Boy Bands
And that, ladies and gentlemen, is how one solves this particular argument. :D
How dare you try to corrupt this board.
Edit: Oh, and...
I love the fact that they've kept Cormyr.
I loathe the fact that they've skipped a hundred years.
I love the fact that they've kept Cormyr.
I loathe the fact that they've skipped a hundred years.
It's alive. ALIVE!!!
Thank you for participating. :D
I wouldn't say "befuddled." It made perfect sense in an illogical way. ;)
-I'm still reaching to understand how we got from Point A to Point B, there.
I loathe the fact that they've skipped a hundred years.
-This is the major reason I don't even want to see 4th Edition Forgotten Realms. Bumping up the timeline 100 years was just a horrible idea.
-I'm still reaching to understand how we got from Point A to Point B, there.
Did we ever make it to a point B?
Did we ever make it to a point B?
-Let me rephrase that, then: We were supposed to go from Point A to Point B. We went from Point A to Point Q. I am still wondering how we got to Point Q.
-Let me rephrase that, then: We were supposed to go from Point A to Point B. We went from Point A to Point Q. I am still wondering how we got to Point Q.
My assumption is that our friend, Basketball, isn't a local. Literally, from where he's from, what he said makes sense. But, to us, its just ass-backwards. That's why when we both explained why what he said didn't make sense, he chose your definition over mine because you defined the subject of his question as you, as I chose to define the subject as the concept of you answering the question. Thus, it ran more literal to what he felt he was explaining.
Either that or he's just really bad with grammar. No offense, Basketball. :D
-Let me rephrase that, then: We were supposed to go from Point A to Point B. We went from Point A to Point Q. I am still wondering how we got to Point Q.
You forgot to make the left turn at Albuquerque. ;)
How dare you try to corrupt this board.
It's in my portfolio. If I didn't, Ao would revoke my status and make me... ugh... human. ;)
Here are my #1's:
#1 love: magic won't be Vancian
#1 loathe: it won't really be the Realms
Did we ever make it to a point B?
How could have we made it to 'point B' since he didn't answer my question after all?
#1 love: magic won't be Vancian
-Why not? See, I never understood the 'hatred' for that system. Sure, when you think about it literally, needing to relearn spells everyday and all, it is a little silly, but are there really better alternatives out ther?
How could have we made it to 'point B' since he didn't answer my question after all?
-Why would I take the time, when you didn't confirm that my response would matter or not?
I don't really care for Vancian myself... fighter isn't limited by the number of swings he can take with the sword, don't know why a wizard should be limited by the number of spells he can cast... magnitude of spell, I can go with that being limited, but not number of uses. Brain fatigue is something I could get behind though. And no, I don't really care if its unbalanced and makes mages 'too uber' or whatever other adjective you care to put to it.
Brain fatigue is something I could get behind though.
-Isn't that what's going on, though? I mean, that's how I've always rationalized it. Wizards forget spells, and cannot relearn them immediatley because their minds just cannot handle the 'mystical infiniteness' of magic.
-Why not? See, I never understood the 'hatred' for that system. Sure, when you think about it literally, needing to relearn spells everyday and all, it is a little silly, but are there really better alternatives out ther?
At least for me, I never could buy into the "your wizard forgets a spell and must re-learn it... every time" deal. That kind of magic was really only reflected in the Vance novels, not any other fantasy world novel I grew up with.
As an avid RPer, I loved the idea that wizards had to study, had to have high INT... seeing them poring over ancient arcane tomes... but for an epic-level mage to forget a 1st lvl magic missile spell and have to re-learn it from a spellbook every time he cast it, that just seemed wrong.
Rolemaster uses a system with spell lists and power points, and I liked that a lot better. That wouldn't be everyone's cup o' joe, though.
That wouldn't be everyone's cup o' joe, though.
-I'll admit that if the Psion Power Point system could be adapted into the Arcane/Divine Magic system, things would be better. But, even in that case, a magician can not have enough steam left to cast those lower level spells after a while.
-Why would I take the time, when you didn't confirm that my response would matter or not?
I asked you a direct question, how did you come to the conclusion that the value of your response would be questioned?
Or is it that every time one asks you a question on the D&D forums he has to also underline whether what you say will matter or not to him?
What kind of reasoning is that?
I asked you a direct question, how did you come to the conclusion that the value of your response would be questioned?
Or is it that every time one asks you a question on the D&D forums he has to also underline whether what you say will matter or not to him?
What kind of reasoning is that?
-I'm not even going to go into it with you again. As I said earlier, your sentence structure and word selection is at fault, and that, in general, you now make me chuckle because of this back-and-forth every time I see you around.
-I'm not even going to go into it with you again.
As I said earlier, that's what you get when you don't answer a direct question, ehm, directly and without having to resort to questions such as "does my opinion matter?".
-As I said earlier, your sentence structure and word selection is at fault,...
Or, shall we say, your comprehension is at fault since you failed to grasp the meaning of the discussion even after I went all the way and explained it to you form its very start.
...and that, in general, you now make me chuckle because of this back-and-forth every time I see you around.
You started making me laugh at you way many posts before, if anything.
#1 Loath: Ao still exists as the Tyrant Super DM Jerk you don't want to play with whom not even the GODS can kick out.
#1 Love: No more Weave and Chosen of Mystra to be focal points of storylines.
#1 Loath: Ao still exists as the Tyrant Super DM Jerk you don't want to play with whom not even the GODS can kick out.
Uh...thank you....
I think.
Your comments are noted and will be tallied.
Uh...thank you....
I think.
Your comments are noted and will be tallied.
-Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, no matter how wacky and/or uninformed it is. ;)
-Everyone is allowed to have an opinion, no matter how wacky and/or uninformed it is. ;)
UM...when he refers to Ao as being his jerk DM, does that necessarily make him part of the Realms? I would say thats:
Love: this about the Realms
Loath: DM
up my Realms Only one really applies to the topic.
But said crap DM has almost certainly colored the view of the Realms, so it is topical in a slim sense... sorta... if you look at it through the decoder goggles.
Gug!
Might as well tell me the amazon chick across the room with six fingers and hairy legs is hot--as long as I have beer goggles.
You always see the light in the morning after.
Gug!
Might as well tell me the amazon chick across the room with six fingers and hairy legs is hot--as long as I have beer goggles.
You always see the light in the morning after.
I had a girlfriend with six fingers (no joke) it was wierd at first (it didn't look too odd but holding her hand felt wierd cuz it felt bigger) but after a while you get used to it. she was REALLY pretty by the way...
I had a girlfriend with six fingers (no joke) it was wierd at first (it didn't look too odd but holding her hand felt wierd cuz it felt bigger) but after a while you get used to it. she was REALLY pretty by the way...
No offense intended, Ody. I have no problem getting bizzy with a six fingered chick--as long as she shaves her legs and isn't an amazon. I can even deal with four fingers--just, please, shave those legs.;)
I had a girlfriend with six fingers (no joke) it was wierd at first (it didn't look too odd but holding her hand felt wierd cuz it felt bigger) but after a while you get used to it. she was REALLY pretty by the way...
-Interesting...Antonio Alfonseca, a baseball player, has six fingers on his pitching hand. Unfortunately for him, his extra finger doesn't touch the ball, so it has no impact on his breaking balls. His nickname is 'El Pulpo'. ;)
-Interesting...Antonio Alfonseca, a baseball player, has six fingers on his pitching hand. Unfortunately for him, his extra finger doesn't touch the ball, so it has no impact on his breaking balls. His nickname is 'El Pulpo'. ;)
Karsus, please tell me you like football as well as baseball.
Karsus, please tell me you like football as well as baseball.
-No. I hate football with a passion. If football was eliminated like Kiaransalee was, I would be happy.
-There is baseball, and only baseball...(and a little bit of hockey, and the laughing at the Knicks).
-No. I hate football with a passion. If football was eliminated like Kiaransalee was, I would be happy.
-There is baseball, and only baseball...(and a little bit of hockey, and the laughing at the Knicks).
And I would be the complete opposite.
That's too bad. I had high hopes for you. ;)
Uh...thank you....
I think.
Your comments are noted and will be tallied.
What I meant was that the super power does arbitrary things and unlike in other mythologies this head of the pantheon can't be deposed. I've never liked Ao since his introduction in the Avatar Trilogy. It was very hard to accept the Time of Troubles storyline back then. I almost feel as if the Spell Plague and 100 year shift is easier to deal with in contrast.
What I meant was that the super power does arbitrary things and unlike in other mythologies this head of the pantheon can't be deposed. I've never liked Ao since his introduction in the Avatar Trilogy. It was very hard to accept the Time of Troubles storyline back then. I almost feel as if the Spell Plague and 100 year shift is easier to deal with in contrast.
Hey! Hey! Here's a new one. :D
I don't think I've ever heard anyone speak of a grudge with Ao. And, personally, I don't see what the problem is. He is essentially non-existent. He's popped up once, only once, and isn't likely to return.
But, hey, that's just me.
And I would be the complete opposite.
-Oh well. We can agree (usually) on Forgotten Realms matters, so that's all that matters.
-Oh well. We can agree (usually) on Forgotten Realms matters, so that's all that matters.
Yeah, but I would have a hell of a lot more fun talking about how the Bears kicked the crap out of the Giants/Jets than I would with how the Cubs/Sox got their crap kicked in by the Mets/Yankees.
So be it. Until WotC comes out with a Forgotten Realms Guide to Sports, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
Da' Bears.
So be it. Until WotC comes out with a Forgotten Realms Guide to Sports, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.
-That's the kind of thing Ed is good at explaining.
-Curse of the Goat, baby!
-Curse of the Goat, baby!
This needs explaining.
This needs explaining.
-Curse of the Billy Goat.
-Curse of the Billy Goat.
That is just friggin' hilarious. I had no idea that was the reason the Cubs sucked. I always thought it was people like that Bartman guy that destroyed the cubbies chance at winning anything.
Thanks for the history lesson. ;)
That is just friggin' hilarious. I had no idea that was the reason the Cubs sucked. I always thought it was people like that Bartman guy that destroyed the cubbies chance at winning anything.
-Nope. The spirit of the goat posessed him...
-Nope. The spirit of the goat posessed him...
And now it all comes to light. All this time I thought he was just an over eager idiot.
But, nope. All this time he was possessed by a goat and I had no idea.
I think we may need to have a ritual sacrifice on the pitchers mound of Wrigley Field to correct this situation. Bartman or a goat, I think it makes no difference.
And now it all comes to light. All this time I thought he was just an over eager idiot.
But, nope. All this time he was possessed by a goat and I had no idea.
I think we may need to have a ritual sacrifice on the pitchers mound of Wrigley Field to correct this situation. Bartman or a goat, I think it makes no difference.
-Well, in order to break the curse, the Cubs needs to be genuinely nice to a goat, and let them come to games. I don't think sacrificing goats is really a way to meet that criteria. Sacrificing Steve Bartman, though, I have no real problem with. They sacrificed the ball that he caught. Blew it up...
Anyway, since we've all gone back and forth on this thing, I wanted to get a take on what we believe is the worst thing about the new Realms and what we think is the best thing about the new Realms.
Love: Death of Thay, Sembia, Mystra, etc., pretty much everything that's been gutted.
Loathe: The Drizzt novels are still mentioning Catti-brie.
-Well, in order to break the curse, the Cubs needs to be genuinely nice to a goat, and let them come to games. I don't think sacrificing goats is really a way to meet that criteria. Sacrificing Steve Bartman, though, I have no real problem with. They sacrificed the ball that he caught. Blew it up...
Fine. Then bring both Bartman and a goat onto the pitchers mound, have Bartman kiss the goat, then blow him up.
Then everyone will be happy and I can boogie down in Wrigleyville when the Cubs finally win the world series.
Hate: The thought of just how much money I'll have to shell out to regain that feeling.
-Why not? See, I never understood the 'hatred' for that system. Sure, when you think about it literally, needing to relearn spells everyday and all, it is a little silly, but are there really better alternatives out ther?
The hatred for the system is the need to know in advance what is going to happen that day and what you'll need to deal with it. A prime example of the weakness of the "Vancian magic system" comes in Zelazny's Merlin Cycle of the Amber series.
Through the Corwin series and into the middle of the Merlin series, Zelazny uses what can best be described as a Vancian system. Spells are created and "hung" in such a way that a few words and a gesture are all that are needed to release them. Merlin, greatest wizard of all time, doesn't like using spells because they are too unreliable. It isn't until he gets a mcguffin (the Spikard) that acts as a battery for his spells allowing him to (in essence) switch to casting like the WoD spell system (i.e. "I know How, now all I need is enough energy.") that Merlin starts using spells on a regular basis.
Besides, after running out of spells, wizards are useless. They go from masters of the universe, making physics their whipping boy, to poorly armed peasants once the juice runs out. Course on the flip side, the juice rarely runs out at higher levels.
The new 4e magic system is decent. It allows the spellcasters to do what they're supposed to do, cast spells. No more "well I used my one Magic Missile for the day. Anyone got a spare crossbow?"
That would be my like for 4e.
So far, I really dislike the dismantling of the pantheons, the destruction of many of the regions, and the death of Mystra.
-Isn't that what's going on, though? I mean, that's how I've always rationalized it. Wizards forget spells, and cannot relearn them immediatley because their minds just cannot handle the 'mystical infiniteness' of magic.
Well, my understanding was that in Jack Vance's Dying Earth series (which is a Sci Fi series by-the-bye), the "wizards" were scientists who knew how to manipulate energies to do amazing things. They held formulaes for manipulating that energy in their minds. Holding on to it too long damaged the mind. It also caused the spell to erode, requiring the spell be rememorized everyday or two (though in D&D you could hold on to one spell indefinitely). The formulaes were incomplete while held in the mind. There was always a word or gesture needed to release them.
As for spell systems, I've always seen White Wolf's Mage system as pretty good. It basically revolves around knowing how reality works (framed in your own paradigm) and then powering that with a bit of primal energy. You know gravity is really subjective at all times (while all those other fools think it is objective) therefor you can fly by will alone. Three dimensional space is also a mental concstruct meant to keep us from going insane. You avoid that and can teleport instantly or remote view or create gates between two places.
It just requires knowledge of the required field of magic (called spheres) and enough juice. The balancing mechanic was paradox, where the other 6 billion minds on Earth are stuck in their incorrect beliefs and their combined will slaps ya down when you try to work magic in the presence of a Sleeper (a guy not aware magic exists/works).
-I'll admit that if the Psion Power Point system could be adapted into the Arcane/Divine Magic system, things would be better. But, even in that case, a magician can not have enough steam left to cast those lower level spells after a while.
Yeah, there are a number of systems to show this. There was the spell point system in the Arcane Age supplements for 2ed. The Unearthed Arcana for 3.x also had the spell point system. There was a recovery system in UA as well. IIRC some spells recovered automatically in rounds, others took minutes and a few required some kind of check.
Another hombrew system (not that UA isn't just one big book o'home brew), was a fatigue mechanic where you made a Fort save after casting a spell. The DC was based on the Spell level and the number of spells you cast in the last few rounds or minutes or what ever. It seemed to do well especially as it replicated getting fatigued from casting and you could even go as far as injuring yourself. Though I don't recall the specifics.
Add to that the spells systems in places like Ars Magica or the World of Darkness and you've got tons of options that are better than Vancian magic.
Hah, talk about thread jack.
Besides, after running out of spells, wizards are useless. They go from masters of the universe, making physics their whipping boy, to poorly armed peasants once the juice runs out. Course on the flip side, the juice rarely runs out at higher levels.
-What's the problem with that? And, mind you, 75% of the time, I am a spellcaster, be it Wizard, Beguiler, Cleric, Psion, whatever...
-What does Genie say in Aladdin? "Infinite, cosmic power!...Itty-bitty living space..."
-What's the problem with that? And, mind you, 75% of the time, I am a spellcaster, be it Wizard, Beguiler, Cleric, Psion, whatever...
-What does Genie say in Aladdin? "Infinite, cosmic power!...Itty-bitty living space..."
Oh sure, there should be balance. I don't much like the idea that it is impossible to survive on your own past the early level but then you can smack anything around once you reach a certain point. I like the idea now that the wizard is always a wizard and thus solves his problems with spells (and not crossbows). Also its fine the spells aren't more powerful than any other mechanic for winning combat.
I'm just a little irked that such iconic spells like Fly and Invisibility are waaay nerfed. The Wizard is no longer a buffer. Fly for instance can be cast on only one person and must be maintained (thus why you can't cast two or more fly spells) in addition to it being a once per day thing. Same with Invisibility. No longer is the wizard staying alive because he is flying and invisible. Oh well.
I like the idea now that the wizard is always a wizard and thus solves his problems with spells (and not crossbows).
-There's the difference. I've been weaned on the idea and theory that a Wizard has limits to his abilities, be it Mana Points from Diablo, Spell Slots in D&D, Magic Points, in Final Fantasy, and most other video game RPGs, and so on.
-That a Wizard never run out of spells, or that his spells are the equivalent of, say, a crossbow bolt, or a throwing axe, a la Gauntlet, just does not sit well with me. Having a limited and select number of spells per day added to the strategy of the game. What spells am I going to take today? How many? Why? What happens when and/or if I run out of spells? And so on...
-There's the difference. I've been weaned on the idea and theory that a Wizard has limits to his abilities, be it Mana Points from Diablo, Spell Slots in D&D, Magic Points, in Final Fantasy, and most other video game RPGs, and so on.
-That a Wizard never run out of spells, or that his spells are the equivalent of, say, a crossbow bolt, or a throwing axe, a la Gauntlet, just does not sit well with me. Having a limited and select number of spells per day added to the strategy of the game. What spells am I going to take today? How many? Why? What happens when and/or if I run out of spells? And so on...
Sure but there are many different ways to show one getting worn out by casting spells. I guess I've seen enough other systems that I don't see Vancian casting as necessary for game balance. It is one way to do it and not even the best. And in the end, I'd rather not be a jumped up commoner most of the time. After all, shoot one single goblin with your one magic missile you're done.
Now every other non-caster is still doing their shtick (archery, sword swinging, punching, etc) all day every day. The super special trick (the double shot, stunning punch, cleave, etc) may be done once or twice a day. But the sword swing can only be done once? How ridiculous would that be? Hello Mr barbarian. I'm sorry but at first level you only get to swing your axe once and then you have to rest for 24 hours to get rested enough to swing it again. I'm fine with the wizard having "muscles" (magic ones at least) developed enough that he can cast one or two spells pretty much repeatedly. Just as the barbarian can swing his axe all day every day.
Sure but there are many different ways to show one getting worn out by casting spells. I guess I've seen enough other systems that I don't see Vancian casting as necessary for game balance. It is one way to do it and not even the best. And in the end, I'd rather not be a jumped up commoner most of the time. After all, shoot one single goblin with your one magic missile you're done.
Now every other non-caster is still doing their shtick (archery, sword swinging, punching, etc) all day every day. The super special trick (the double shot, stunning punch, cleave, etc) may be done once or twice a day. But the sword swing can only be done once? How ridiculous would that be? Hello Mr barbarian. I'm sorry but at first level you only get to swing your axe once and then you have to rest for 24 hours to get rested enough to swing it again. I'm fine with the wizard having "muscles" (magic ones at least) developed enough that he can cast one or two spells pretty much repeatedly. Just as the barbarian can swing his axe all day every day.
I agree with this almost wholeheartedly. I mean, look at clerics. The run out of prayers/spells and they are still able to promptly go at it with weapons and armor when they are all out.
I'd just like to point out that in the beginning, magic was supposed to be a very knowledge intensive practice. It took great time and dedication to achieve even the smallest feats. There was no time to compensate in training of martial arts and such. Which was alright to a degree with me, cause it sort of made sense.
But after you start bringing in sorcerers and such who can do the same thing, this dedication gets lost. It doesn't explain why a sorcerer, who can innately work magic (and please let me know if I'm missing something--been a while) and doesn't have to dedicate himself to the practice, must suffer the same debilitations as that of a true wizard. At least give the magic user the ability to spit out some raw magic here and there to compensate or something.
-There's the difference. I've been weaned on the idea and theory that a Wizard has limits to his abilities, be it Mana Points from Diablo, Spell Slots in D&D, Magic Points, in Final Fantasy, and most other video game RPGs, and so on.
-That a Wizard never run out of spells, or that his spells are the equivalent of, say, a crossbow bolt, or a throwing axe, a la Gauntlet, just does not sit well with me. Having a limited and select number of spells per day added to the strategy of the game. What spells am I going to take today? How many? Why? What happens when and/or if I run out of spells? And so on...
You hit the nail on the head here LK, IMO 4E in a PnP verison of "Gaunlet" and I don't like it. Look 75% of the time I'll play a melee characters (paladins and fighters mostly, but I can't wait to play a Knight:D) but I understand and like the fact that spellcastes should be more powerful (at the expence of being able to a limeted times tper day).
Now that said, if you are a spellcaster and run out of spells and you become "useless" to the party, you might want to rethink your gaming style.
Buy wands even if is a want of magic missile(even the cheapest one can be useful til Lv 8 Lv 9 give or take), and/or a wand of identify is not ALL about combact ;) (unless ofcouse you are a Warmage :P)
You hit the nail on the head here LK, IMO 4E in a PnP verison of "Gaunlet" and I don't like it. Look 75% of the time I'll play a melee characters (paladins and fighters mostly, but I can't wait to play a Knight:D) but I understand and like the fact that spellcastes should be more powerful (at the expence of being able to a limeted times tper day).
Now that said, if you are a spellcaster and run out of spells and you become "useless" to the party, you might want to rethink your gaming style.
Buy wands even if is a want of magic missile(even the cheapest one can be useful til Lv 8 Lv 9 give or take), and/or a wand of identify is not ALL about combact ;) (unless ofcouse you are a Warmage :P)
Sure, but I see that like only allowing the fighter to take so many swings of his sword, then he has to switch to Alchy Fire, only it cost 50 - 100 gp per pop.
Besides, I don't recall too many stories where the wizard type is good for about 6 - 18 seconds and then that's it for the day. Who'd really fear that? Just wear down all the high level mages with big armies, then kill them when they're out of spells. Once that's done it would only take a small force of Mage hunters to keep the lowbies in check. They'd run out of spells after injuring (maybe killing) one or two fellows and then
no more mages.The only analog I can think of is the Sword of Truth Series and Darkon Rahl's hunting of the Mother Confessors. He sent teams of four fellows to kill off all the Mother Confessors. It usally took a Mother about 1 minute to whole weeks to recover her "dominate person" power. One guy would take one for the team and get dominated (usually with orders to defend the Mother as she runs). Two would then fight and kill the one (this Dom is forever). That left the last fellow to kill the Mother before she recovered her power.
In the end there was only one Mother left, the Mother Superior who could recover her power in seconds. And that was a near thing as she almost fell to the team. But those weren't the Wizard type in the series. They just represent the one or two uses of power a day types and how easy they are to kill off as a whole group. Richard Rahl was the Wizard type and he could do anything at any time (course he is a little to Ubermensch for me).
So the fact that Wizards do all this intensive study to learn the secrets of the universe and they can only use it once a day or so? Never made sense to me. Now should a wizard be able to spam MM's all day every day? No, there should be a point where he is worn out. But only being good at your shtick for half a fight (1 or 2 rounds at most) after years of training with a master or at an arcane college just seems foolish.
Why isn't there a fatigue mechanism for fighting with a sword? After all, it is tiring work and only high level folks who have done it for years should be able to fight for minutes (never mind hours). Some wet behind the ears puppy fresh from the training academy? (read 1stie) No way! 30 seconds at most of intense combat should wear him out.
Before there were MMORPGS though there was D&D. Many game groups would play and replay Temple of Elemental Evil or Keep on the Borderlands over and over with different PCs since they loved the adventure so much. SOmetimes they did it because they probably did not know any better and were not int othe RP side of things. "Living" worlds with 20 year campaigns didn't really exist like they do now. Even now those 20 year games are not as common (IMO) as the 1 or 2 year games played by casual gamers. Back then the game was new and people did play it like Gauntlet because video games were never as fun as the imagination. Now the graphics are a lot better and it makes it easier for people to hop in and have fun. They have less reason to play complicated RPGs.
Anyway the gamer determines if it is hack n slash or roleplaying or a bit of both.
Sure, but I see that like only allowing the fighter to take so many swings of his sword, then he has to switch to Alchy Fire, only it cost 50 - 100 gp per pop.
Besides, I don't recall too many stories where the wizard type is good for about 6 - 18 seconds and then that's it for the day. Who'd really fear that? Just wear down all the high level mages with big armies, then kill them when they're out of spells. Once that's done it would only take a small force of Mage hunters to keep the lowbies in check. They'd run out of spells after injuring (maybe killing) one or two fellows and then
The only analog I can think of is the Sword of Truth Series and Darkon Rahl's hunting of the Mother Confessors. He sent teams of four fellows to kill off all the Mother Confessors. It usally took a Mother about 1 minute to whole weeks to recover her "dominate person" power. One guy would take one for the team and get dominated (usually with orders to defend the Mother as she runs). Two would then fight and kill the one (this Dom is forever). That left the last fellow to kill the Mother before she recovered her power.
In the end there was only one Mother left, the Mother Superior who could recover her power in seconds. And that was a near thing as she almost fell to the team. But those weren't the Wizard type in the series. They just represent the one or two uses of power a day types and how easy they are to kill off as a whole group. Richard Rahl was the Wizard type and he could do anything at any time (course he is a little to Ubermensch for me).
So the fact that Wizards do all this intensive study to learn the secrets of the universe and they can only use it once a day or so? Never made sense to me. Now should a wizard be able to spam MM's all day every day? No, there should be a point where he is worn out. But only being good at your shtick for half a fight (1 or 2 rounds at most) after years of training with a master or at an arcane college just seems foolish.
Why isn't there a fatigue mechanism for fighting with a sword? After all, it is tiring work and only high level folks who have done it for years should be able to fight for minutes (never mind hours). Some wet behind the ears puppy fresh from the training academy? (read 1stie) No way! 30 seconds at most of intense combat should wear him out.
I hear ya' put a spellcaster power is more than a fighters's
. Besides a fighter have to spend 300+ GP just to get a +1 in ATK. and so on.... think about it ;)I hear ya' put a spellcaster power is more than a fighters's
Meh, the fighter has to invest in equipment to get better or more unique attacks. Though this isn't 100% necessary as the BAB will go up and feats will be available to widen the options. The only thing you have to worry about is DR and the materials necessary to beat it. Trust me, years of Living Greyhawk's random access to items shows what you can do without and what is 100% necessary.
The wizard is balanced there with needing to scribe into a spellbook. That costs money. Though invest in a Boccob's Blessed Book as early as possible. Once you fill it do it all over again. Take away a wizzy's spellbook and they're back to being a commoner. Take away a fighter's sword and he picks up a table leg to use as a club and can still be effective. Not as effective as he is with his +15 Godsmasher*, but still effective. A wizard can't pick up another's spellbook and be effective that minute. It takes at least a week (maybe two) to master the new spellbook and use it as your own**.
That 4e is balancing things this way (everyone does their "shtick" in every fight) is fine by me.
*Little nod to KoTD there!
**Without the help of the original owner, so two wizzies could share a book.
Why isn't there a fatigue mechanism for fighting with a sword? After all, it is tiring work and only high level folks who have done it for years should be able to fight for minutes (never mind hours). Some wet behind the ears puppy fresh from the training academy? (read 1stie) No way! 30 seconds at most of intense combat should wear him out.
Is there not?
There was. As I used to play, you could only go so long based on your Con score before you began to fatigue and suffer modifiers.
Is there not?
There was. As I used to play, you could only go so long based on your Con score before you began to fatigue and suffer modifiers.
Not as anything more than a house rule. The RAW doesn't keep a fighter from swinging his sword all day every day, except for the necessity of sleeping and eating. Though some guys try to get away with not eating or sleeping, too!
Not as anything more than a house rule. The RAW doesn't keep a fighter from swinging his sword all day every day, except for the necessity of sleeping and eating. Though some guys try to get away with not eating or sleeping, too!
I could have swore that all of this was sketched out in the DMG. Maybe the Wilderness Survival Manual? Somewhere--I know--there was a rule for fatigue. There had to be.
Sure, but I see that like only allowing the fighter to take so many swings of his sword, then he has to switch to Alchy Fire, only it cost 50 - 100 gp per pop.
-Things don't need to be fair for the sake of it.
-Things don't need to be fair for the sake of it.
Meh, it doesn't have to be fair. Just fun to play. Not many folks like being the guy with the pop gun while everyone else is using tommy guns (I'm picturing Harlem Nights and the sceene with Arsenio Hall here).
Meh, it doesn't have to be fair. Just fun to play. Not many folks like being the guy with the pop gun while everyone else is using tommy guns (I'm picturing Harlem Nights and the sceene with Arsenio Hall here).
-I've said elsewhere, I find the "Oh crap, I ran out of spells. Now what?" time fun. Maybe that's just me.
the best time I had playing D&D in general was when I was Lv 1 and bare naked and used a dead goblin as a weapon...
-That's pretty...uhhh....:P
:D
-I've said elsewhere, I find the "Oh crap, I ran out of spells. Now what?" time fun. Maybe that's just me.
Well, sure it is kinda cool to solve problems by alternate means. Personally I'm not so big on it being a class feature that you've got one real method for dealing with things and that goes away. Every other class has at least one other shtick that can be trotted out, but sorcerers and wizards are just boned. Its why things like Ring of Wizardry I - IX are core along with PoP's.
the best time I had playing D&D in general was when I was Lv 1 and bare naked and used a dead goblin as a weapon...
That's up there with my friend's story that ends:
And so Mikey said "come on let's go get 'em." And I was like "Dude, all I've got is Jimmy* and my johnson."
*A named, intelligent sword
I'm curious to know what that Goblin was doing to deserve such treatment.:embarrass
My DM is a royal Aasimar-hole my first game EVER and he starts me naked in a cell. Then some Rogue frees me and then he dies by that goblin's hand before i even finds out who that Rogue was! (I still don't know, and I'm lv 14 now.) so I used the Rogue knife to kill that goblin and the next attack I rolled a one (and my DM rule that one a one your weapon either breaks or falls), and since the dead goblin was the ONLY thing at hand....
And that as they say is that :D
My DM is a royal Aasimar-hole my first game EVER and he starts me naked in a cell. Then some Rogue frees me and then he dies by that goblin's hand before i even finds out who that Rogue was! (I still don't know, and I'm lv 14 now.) so I used the Rogue knife to kill that goblin and the next attack I rolled a one (and my DM rule that one a one your weapon either breaks or falls), and since the dead goblin was the ONLY thing at hand....
And that as they say is that :D
I had a similar situation happen with me. But I woke up naked in a pot.
I was a bit peeved later on when my DM wouldn't let me pick up a weapon proficiency in troll.
Did you have the Monkey Grip Feat?
If you are referring to me, this was in play back with 2nd edition.
Op there you go, No Monkey Grip, no troll bashing
Rules lawyer.
LOVES:
I love the fact that they've kept Cormyr.
#1 love: magic won't be Vancian
#1 Love: No more Weave and Chosen of Mystra to be focal points of storylines.
Love: Death of Thay, Sembia, Mystra, etc., pretty much everything that's been gutted.
Love: Regaining that feeling of exploring a new world like when I first started playing in the Realms.
The new 4e magic system is decent. It allows the spellcasters to do what they're supposed to do, cast spells. No more "well I used my one Magic Missile for the day. Anyone got a spare crossbow?"
LOATHS:
…dislike the dismantling of the pantheons, the destruction of many of the regions, and the death of Mystra.
Hate: The thought of just how much money I'll have to shell out to regain that feeling
Loathe: The Drizzt novels are still mentioning Catti-brie.
#1 Loath: Ao still exists as the Tyrant Super DM Jerk you don't want to play with whom not even the GODS can kick out.
#1 loathe: it won't really be the Realms
I loathe the fact that they've skipped a hundred years.
...
And it appears we have a LOVE and LOATH: "N Sync!!
#1 Loath: Ao still exists as the Tyrant Super DM Jerk you don't want to play with whom not even the GODS can kick out.
-I think this one wins.
-I think this one wins.
And I'm aware, as that you so claimed that all opinions mattered on this point.
I would also say that the reverse could be true and supply the greatest love of the new Realms.
Doesn't God really just suck? :D
I think Rich said AO will "be there" in the book but really not touched upon at all. He like many FR fans dislike that aspect of the game but since the old writers made AO so more than Toril, the gods and the weave I think they rather not make it disappear. To me he/she is an aspect of FR that I can easily ignore.
Hmmm,
Ao (The Man, The Dude, Duderino)
Portfolio: Godhood, Divinity
Typical "Worshipers": dieties
Does not accept mortal worshipers. Only shows up when a deity is not carrying out their assigned tasks as per their portfolio. He also appears when a newly arisen deity is looking to get confirmed. Otherwise rarely seen.
Yeah, I can dig that. Course, I had a friend that had rules written up to play a cleric of Ao. You had to go through 30 levels as a cleric with no spellcasting ability. After you hit 31, he finally took notice of the nut case and took pity on him. The thing is, you had to play it out. There was no getting into an epic game and getting off light by starting at 25 or 30. But if you slogged through it and lived, you got some sweet abilities and unique spells.
As to Ao, not sure why it matters. Its a convention that can easily be ignored, like Rauric said. I like him there, as it fits my cosmological view of the Realms, but I've never actually even mentioned his existance or the like in-game, nor would I, especially in a campaign set in 1312DR.
I think Rich said AO will "be there" in the book but really not touched upon at all. He like many FR fans dislike that aspect of the game but since the old writers made AO so more than Toril, the gods and the weave I think they rather not make it disappear. To me he/she is an aspect of FR that I can easily ignore.
-Specifically, he said that Ao will still be present, but will not be utilized, such that he metaphorically disappears. That is how Ao should be used, though.
Chill, my man. You're the first light of the night. ;)
Did I just rap?--yeah, baby!!
My apologies. I was sure that the mention of 'N Sync or the Backstreet boys could only be regarded as ridiculous. Guess I was wrong.
But, please. Lets get back to the love and loath, shall we? I've heard so much bickering about everything that I would love to hear some specifics.
Backstreet Boys ARE GODS!!
(in FR 5.7.8)
-So has anyone mentioned Cartman and HIS Boy Band "FINGERBANG"?:P
18D;)
-So has anyone mentioned Cartman and HIS Boy Band "FINGERBANG"?:P
18D;)
They're opening for the New Kids on the Block reunion. Where the hell have you been?
Loser.
They're opening for the New Kids on the Block reunion. Where the hell have you been?
Loser.
-At work, reading Realms Novels of course.:P
18D;)
-You're supposed to work, at work.
-Well I now work the graveyard shift, so...I get alot of free time now!:D Now when I was working the 3pm-11pm shift, it was like chasing rabbits, or trying to gather a bunch of kittens together.
18D;)
Hmm...? :D
#1 Love: Post-Apocalyptic world. Have always loved that sort.
#1 Loathe: Removal of a lot of Vancian magic (this basically ties with Elminster still living).
My guess: Security.
Hmm...? :D
-I work in an adolescent unit in a drug/alcohol rehab. Pretty much security. Some of the kids could really do something with their lives if only the would apply themselves. Most of the night they are asleep, unless we get a ceiling climber. Every now and then I will catch a young man crawling through the roof trying to get to the girl side of the unit!
:P 18;)
-I work in an adolescent unit in a drug/alcohol rehab. Pretty much security. Some of the kids could really do something with their lives if only the would apply themselves. Most of the night they are asleep, unless we get a ceiling climber. Every now and then I will catch a young man crawling through the roof trying to get to the girl side of the unit!
18;)
Caretaker. Security. Same thing. ;)
Must be interesting to watch childhood ingenuity at its best.
Because I have yet to fully explore all of Ebberon or Dark Sun, but am thinking about Ebberon if my friends want to go there.
-So, why not explore them, if you like that type of theme?
Every now and then I will catch a young man crawling through the roof trying to get to the girl side of the unit!
18;)
-Ah, the power of hormones.
-So, why not explore them, if you like that type of theme?
I guess I could, but I have always liked the Realmslore, like you said in other threads, Karsus, that the Realms are a breathing and living campaign. I'm just a little worried that the Eberron campaign won't be as alive (which it wholly shouldn't, since it is fairly new).
I guess I could, but I have always liked the Realmslore, like you said in other threads, Karsus, that the Realms are a breathing and living campaign. I'm just a little worried that the Eberron campaign won't be as alive (which it wholly shouldn't, since it is fairly new).
Going forward, it seems that all campaigns will be as alive as they are dead--at least by WotC standards. Each world will only have 3 sourcebooks. All detail after that will pretty much be distributed sparingly in DDI and whatever the gaming community decides to do with it.
I wouldn't worry too much about what's alive and not.
I'm just a little worried that the Eberron campaign won't be as alive (which it wholly shouldn't, since it is fairly new).
-Eberron isn't alive, period. The Eberron Campaign Setting, is a "snapshot" of the Eberron world, in a particular time period. The novels aren't canon, so they don't change things. Officially, the setting has no support, in the sense that there are official changes to the world.
Thus, the "dead" part that will end up with all worlds.
-As long as the novel stay canon, the Forgotten Realms will, thankfully, never become a "dead setting", so to speak. I like the term "snapshot" better, since "dead setting" implies not having official support, like, say Darksun, or Planescape, or whatever.
-On a somewhat related topic, and this is not specifically directed at you, M_Kal, but I can never get why people want the setting to be changed to better suit their tastes, whether it be "apocalyptic", "dark", "Lovecraftian", or whatever. Why not check out a setting that is already tailor made for those things, rather than "trash" the Forgotten Realms?
Even though it changed the better for me, I can understand why many don't like the way it changed.
As to those who trash the Forgotten Realms, a true fan of their favorite world would not resort to slander the others. But thats my theory...
-As long as the novel stay canon, the Forgotten Realms will, thankfully, never become a "dead setting", so to speak.
I was speaking in gaming terms--as he's one that looks to play. Novels are a different story--and we still don't know how much canon they will instill on the setting.
As to those who trash the Forgotten Realms, a true fan of their favorite world would not resort to slander the others. But thats my theory...
-Slander is oral. Libel is text.
I was speaking in gaming terms--as he's one that looks to play. Novels are a different story--and we still don't know how much canon they will instill on the setting.
-Well, a setting is composed of both: canon novels, and canon game sourcebooks/materials. That's what makes Eberron a "snapshot". It has canon game sourcbooks/materials that don't advance the metapkot, but novels that are not canon. The Forgotten Realms have canon game sourcebooks/materials that advance the metaplot, and novels that advance the metaplot. Basically, the facts that determine what does/does not advance the metaplot makes a setting "living" or not.
-Slander is oral. Libel is text.
-Well, a setting is composed of both: canon novels, and canon game sourcebooks/materials. That's what makes Eberron a "snapshot". It has canon game sourcbooks/materials that don't advance the metapkot, but novels that are not canon. The Forgotten Realms have canon game sourcebooks/materials that advance the metaplot, and novels that advance the metaplot. Basically, the facts that determine what does/does not advance the metaplot makes a setting "living" or not.
(sigh)
I know!!(sigh)
I'm talking about now. We don't know how things will progress from here on out.
I'm talking about now. We don't know how things will progress from here on out.
-Oh. Yes we do. Rich has stated that novels will continue to be canon.
Caretaker. Security. Same thing. ;)
Must be interesting to watch childhood ingenuity at its best.
-These kids nowadays are brilliant! Yet that are so willing to do Evil instead of Good! Oh, this will help you live long and prosper. No way Jose. But this will lead you to an early grave, land you in prison, or totally ruin you life. Where do I sign. Its sad, but thats life, feet that are swift to do wrong in life. Then they dont want to be responsible about the consequences.
18D
-These kids nowadays are brilliant! Yet that are so willing to do Evil instead of Good! Oh, this will help you live long and prosper. No way Jose. But this will lead you to an early grave, land you in prison, or totally ruin you life. Where do I sign. Its sad, but thats life, feet that are swift to do wrong in life. Then they dont want to be responsible about the consequences.
18D
-I'm sure rap music can be blamed. ;)
-Oh. Yes we do. Rich has stated that novels will continue to be canon.
And has Rich said anything about what Eberron novels are going to be moving forward?
-These kids nowadays are brilliant! Yet that are so willing to do Evil instead of Good! Oh, this will help you live long and prosper. No way Jose. But this will lead you to an early grave, land you in prison, or totally ruin you life. Where do I sign. Its sad, but thats life, feet that are swift to do wrong in life. Then they dont want to be responsible about the consequences.
[/b]
Everyone is evil and self absorbed. Each generation just gets more corrupted. Its just funnier to watch the kids because they are so clueless and misguided.
And the type of music that corrupts them changes from generation to generation. In my day it was heavy metal that was to blame. Nowadays its rap. In ten years it is bound to be polka music.
And has Rich said anything about what Eberron novels are going to be moving forward?
-You'd have to ask Keith/Hellcow about that. He's the Eberron guy. I don't think anything is changing concerning Eberron, however. I mean, the timeline isn't going to be changing, as was being supposedly discussed earlier on, when 4e was first announced, so...
So says the Bejebuz.
Renounce your false gods and get all the free beer you can drink... :evillaugh
#1 Loathe: I'll go with the whole 100 year timeleap. Hope your PC wasn't human....
They put a way in for your PC to make the jump. Some Time Portal or other in the Star Mounts I believe.
-That's been around for a while. And, that's not the only Time Conduit, either. There's a bunch of them 'floating' around different places. The Arcane Age products had rules for Time Travel in the Forgotten Realms, and the Chronomancer supplement had rules for Time Travel in D&D in general.
I meant that this one was specifically referenced in one of the recent articals conserning the 4E Realms and allowing characters from 3E to continue.
-Yes, that it was. That said, it wasn't created for that sole purpose, as it, and most other Time Conduits date back to 2e.
Spellplague!
Quote For Truth!:D
I suppose the Time Conduits only working for a single year before ripping you back into your own time stream is being ignored at this point...
This is interesting, as I believe it was Mystra/Mystryl who imposed this on time travel. Of course, Aumaunator was the old Netheril deity officially associated with the portfolio of time (even if he apparently let Mystryl keep watch back of the timeways back then). With Mystra gone, perhaps Aumaunator will actively reclaim his traditional portfolio and impose the same rule?
Edit: er, darn spellchecker, I mean Amaunator. Too many letter u's. ;)
This is interesting, as I believe it was Mystra/Mystryl who imposed this on time travel. Of course, Aumaunator was the old Netheril deity officially associated with the portfolio of time (even if he apparently let Mystryl keep watch back of the timeways back then). With Mystra gone, perhaps Aumaunator will actively reclaim his traditional portfolio and impose the same rule?
He could. But if the Spellplague ripped open the fabric of time and space in certain areas, then I doubt he could stop anyone from using the portals.
-Yeah...Spellplague...
They put a way in for your PC to make the jump. Some Time Portal or other in the Star Mounts I believe.
Yep, I know about them. Nope, I don't like that answer. But, to each their own.
I know it was not directed at me, but I have always loved the Forgotten Realms.
Even though it changed the better for me, I can understand why many don't like the way it changed.
As to those who trash the Forgotten Realms, a true fan of their favorite world would not resort to slander the others. But thats my theory...
I may not like the new realms or I may. I reserve judgment until I see how good is the story.
But fans that love something in one form will trash it if they think it has been corrupted. I saw STAR WARS in the theatre when I was 5 in 1977. I am one of those few "kids" who saw it then, that actually liked THE PHANTOM MENACE. (Ignoring mediclorions of course... oh yeah and JAR JAR)
You have not heard bashing until you hear an old school Star wars nut bash on the new movies...
You have not heard bashing until you hear an old school Star wars nut bash on the new movies...
-Go ask Keryth. I already had the "Phantom Meanace discussion" with him. In a nutshell, the new movies are "bad" because they are not the old movies. That said, there are many things that are lacking, but...
-Go ask Keryth. I already had the "Phantom Meanace discussion" with him. In a nutshell, the new movies are "bad" because they are not the old movies. That said, there are many things that are lacking, but...
So do we dare ask what your thoughts are on the new Star Wars movie that is coming out? ;)
So do we dare ask what your thoughts are on the new Star Wars movie that is coming out? ;)
-The Clone Wars? Eh. I have Comic Books, with superior art, to 'talk' about the Clone Wars.
So do we dare ask what your thoughts are on the new Star Wars movie that is coming out? ;)
I absolutely cannot wait! I love the clone wars, and growing up I was able to enjoy 'the mystery' of what were the clone wars. The clone wars original cartoon was great, the comics have been great, so I see no reason for this to fall short.
Eh, the lack of reality gets me. It won't be a high priority for me. Despite the chiseled looks. ;)
I agree on the look. But still it will be good.
I agree on the look. But still it will be good.
Well, if this was a Star Wars thread and I was that into it, I would take this up on another board. But, seeing how Yoda hasn't donned the title of Swordmage, I think we best let it go. ;)
-The Clone Wars? Eh. I have Comic Books, with superior art, to 'talk' about the Clone Wars.
They were excellent. The Drizzt comic has excellent art as well
I don't know...that new chiseled look they've given everyone really has me excited. Looks like Yoda could dispatch an army with those razor sharp ears alone.
-Well, that was my 'shot', to to speak, at the animation. I couldn't stand the Clone Wars cartoon drawing, and I don't like that animation, either. My thing is this: If we are going to get a Star Wars show/cartoon/comic/whatever, I want something traditional, that I know I'll enjoy, rather than something that is 'experimental', so to speak, that I might not like.
They were excellent. The Drizzt comic has excellent art as well
-Yes, the artwork for Republic was very nice. The artwork for Dark Times is equally as nice. The artwork (and weak plotline, in my opinion) of Knights of the Old Republic turned me off from that title around Issue 4 or so.
-And, yes, the artwork from the Drizzt graphic novels by Devil's Due are nice as well.