Anyone else notice this and are concerned!?
MY LIFE HAS ENDED:surrenderBoth FR and Eberron had a distinct look in 3e, why not 4e.
Or why not, just go on with your life, God forbid some words would be missing on a book that won't affect your RPG in anyway at all. The logo is completely irrelivent unless you have some sort of pride for fantasy?
On the back cover? 2ed and 3ed had their own FR logo, has there been discussion of an updated logo for 4e!?
There are no new logos. FR still has theirs.
They have already placed it on the 4th ed novels and will do so on the 2-3 sourcebooks they have for the Realms. If not on the cover, then on the back.
So wait, you people are upset because it potentially did not have the words: "Forgotten Realms" on the book? Wow...that's like saying you buy an Xbox 360 game that works fine and everything for the 360, but does not say the words: "Xbox 360". Oh no!!
My man, I do try and treat you with respect. Please don't let me regret it because you won't treat others with the same courtesy.
There are no new logos. FR still has theirs.
My man, I do try and treat you with respect. Please don't let me regret it because you won't treat others with the same courtesy.
Granted.
Granted.
Thank you, sir. ;)
Yeah--its been discussed. When it comes out, take a look on the back cover. It'll be there.
Sounds great, thanks for your thoughts. My main goal with this post was to get some insight into what WOTC is imaging for these additional settings, and how they plan to present it to the D&D fanbase. With a new D&D setting, fans are always curious about how it will be presented to them to give these worlds and settings new life. However minor presentation of a campaign may be, it does add character.
The world will not end, but having the FR logo on the cover gives a sense of tribute to the setting. It certainly underscores the difference of the world. Both FR and Eberron had a distinct look in 3e, why not 4e.
It can make one nostalgic at first, but it's just another tweak is all. IIRC, the "distinct look" will be, in fact, the D&D look. The emphasis is on the fact that 4e books are all a part of the same D&D game & brand. Put your 3e PHB next to your 3e FRCS...that's what they don't want so much. I'd guess they'll continue the dramatic artwork on the covers, though they might vary the artists. Face out the books at home and we'll each have a veritable art gallery!
Additionally, they are encouraging DM creativity and "outsourcing" (for lack of a better term). Even if you don't play in FR, the FRCG is supposed to be able to serve as something you can mine for your own campaign. Building that bustling, theocratic metropolis in your homebrew? Take a bite out of Waterdeep, change the Blackstaffs to priests, and rename everything. Need a class like the swordmage? Try, errr, the swordmage! ;) And so on.
Sounds great, thanks for your thoughts. My main goal with this post was to get some insight into what WOTC is imaging for these additional settings, and how they plan to present it to the D&D fanbase. With a new D&D setting, fans are always curious about how it will be presented to them to give these worlds and settings new life. However minor presentation of a campaign may be, it does add character.
Well, why I don't agree up and down, this:
It can make one nostalgic at first, but it's just another tweak is all. IIRC, the "distinct look" will be, in fact, the D&D look. The emphasis is on the fact that 4e books are all a part of the same D&D game & brand. Put your 3e PHB next to your 3e FRCS...that's what they don't want so much. I'd guess they'll continue the dramatic artwork on the covers, though they might vary the artists. Face out the books at home and we'll each have a veritable art gallery!
Additionally, they are encouraging DM creativity and "outsourcing" (for lack of a better term). Even if you don't play in FR, the FRCG is supposed to be able to serve as something you can mine for your own campaign. Building that bustling, theocratic metropolis in your homebrew? Take a bite out of Waterdeep, change the Blackstaffs to priests, and rename everything. Need a class like the swordmage? Try, errr, the swordmage! ;) And so on.
Well, why I don't agree up and down, this:
I don't get what you're saying, Judge.
Btw, I wasn't arguing for or against logos/artwork/etc. in my post...Just posting the impression I got of what WotC is doing with the covers and stuff. ;)
I don't get what you're saying, Judge.
Btw, I wasn't arguing for or against logos/artwork/etc. in my post...Just posting the impression I got of what WotC is doing with the covers and stuff. ;)
I was agreeing with you, as Stigger pointed out...um, to a degree. ;)
BTW, welcome back Stig.
Hate to say that I missed you, but there has been an absence of some sort...
-Why's it...on the back?
Why does it matter?
-Why's it...on the back?
Assuming you mean me, Stig has been gone for days. He's usually on when I am--during work hours--and I haven't seen him in a long time.
Know he has been on the last few 12 or so, but thats it.
Assuming you mean me, Stig has been gone for days. He's usually on when I am--during work hours--and I haven't seen him in a long time.
Know he has been on the last few 12 or so, but thats it.
-I'm talking about the logo, not a person. Hence the 'it'. ;)
Was in Palm Springs soaking up sun and dust... have I mentioned I hate hot weather? Desert in the Winter I love... in the Summer, with a baby screaming in the next room, I despise the thought of it.
Oooh, I'm so jealous! Well, if you leave out the screaming baby part.
Was in Palm Springs soaking up sun and dust... have I mentioned I hate hot weather? Desert in the Winter I love... in the Summer, with a baby screaming in the next room, I despise the thought of it.
lol, you just reminded me of a quote. "I love the smell of fresh napalm in the morning". What movie is that from again?
Sounds like Apocalypse Now.
You'd have loved the Living Desert... very spiffy place, and by far the best Zoo I've ever been to, at least until I make it to the Isle of Jersey.
Oooh, where is that?
I'm going to California next year, by the way.
However, on that trip I'll be going to places like Yosemite, not Death Valley or any other deserts. Oh well, some other time! I'm excited that I'll get to see sequoias and such.As for Yosemite... haven't been there in over 20 years, so couldn't tell you much about it. :D
Palm Springs area... Rancho Mirage I think, technically, but its all pretty much Palm Springs to me. Has African critters (including hyrax-eses & bat-eared foxes!), American Southwest critters (no armadillo, which was kind of disappointing for me), all sorts of desert creatures and plants really. Absolutely amazing stuff I'd highly recommend.
Thanks for the recommendation! I'd love to visit a desert sometime.
As for Yosemite... haven't been there in over 20 years, so couldn't tell you much about it. :D
That's all right...at least it's not that far away from you (at least when compared to how far away it is from me!).
Both you Rino and Stigger would love the movie Jumper. The guy teleports eveywhere in the world site seeing.
I've heard about that guy. Lucky him.
-I'm talking about the logo, not a person. Hence the 'it'. ;)
Yeah, caught that after the fact. You can be gone 12 hours and come back to three posts, then be gone for two and come back to 20. I’m not Speed Racer, nor Speed Reader. I just try to keep up.
EDIT--Oh, yeah. Its on the back to keep up with the D&D feel with all products, like said.
Was in Palm Springs soaking up sun and dust... have I mentioned I hate hot weather? Desert in the Winter I love... in the Summer, with a baby screaming in the next room, I despise the thought of it.
You forgot the humid part. Hot. Humid. Babies. Gug.
lol, you just reminded me of a quote. "I love the smell of fresh napalm in the morning". What movie is that from again?
Definitely. Apocalypse Now.
Palm Springs is anything but humid... your skin dries to hell in 2-3 minutes in those winds. Beyond that, if its humid, its probably not actually a desert... ;)
Yeah dude, this 4 weather state im in blows, it's like humid in the day, and cold as sh*t during night. Snow/Heat/Rain/fall...gg Va
Palm Springs is anything but humid... your skin dries to hell in 2-3 minutes in those winds. Beyond that, if its humid, its probably not actually a desert... ;)
I was speaking more of the baby aggravation. Toss humidity into the mix and its hell.
Yeah, caught that after the fact. You can be gone 12 hours and come back to three posts, then be gone for two and come back to 20. I’m not Speed Racer, nor Speed Reader. I just try to keep up.
EDIT--Oh, yeah. Its on the back to keep up with the D&D feel with all products, like said.
-Splitting the forums should help alleviate that, somewhat.
I don't know if anyones mentioned it yet, but the most to the point reason could be that they don't want to segregate campaign books from the non campaign books. You know as in anyway to unify the books maybe.
-Even from a business point of view (using my own logic, of course), that doesn't sound wise. No matter how you try to paint it, campaign setting books ARE inherently different from supplementary material books (say, the Expanded Psionic Handbook). What are you trying to bank for? People accidentally picking up the FRCG, thinking it's not a campaign setting book? Obviously, the people who want to play in the 4-Gotten Realms are going to play there and buy the book, so...What's the point, you know?
I think he's getting at the idea that WotC is going the route of setting interchangability, at least in terms of mechanics, so the differentiated covers/spines and logos would be counterproductive towards achieving that goal, since we're supposed to just be buying D&D books that all work together, rather than setting specific/exclusive material. From what was said, many people seem to have felt restricted in using stuff from Eberron in the Realms, even feats and the like, because it wasn't 'for the Realms', or some such nonsense. Bizarre concept not to cherry pick every source available to me, but some seem to have trouble thinking outside of their little box, and so this concept was introduced to attempt to solve gamer pigheadedness...
Well that is some of it. And some appears to be WoTC learning from TSR's mistake too much. TSR's many settings begain competing with each other for gamers' attentions. Not a good thing. It is one thing to have folks trying to decide between White Wolf's Mage and D&D's Realms. It is another thing if those same folks are picking between Dark Sun and Mystara.
Though I do feel that each setting has its own feel. Leastwise, this was true in 3.x. Eberron was the combination of film noir (A Touch of Evil, Chinatown, Brick) and pulp heroes (The Shadow, Flash Gordan, Indiana Jones). The Realms was many things to many folks, but mostly tipified for me the Renaissance-era, machiavelian intrigues of nations and extra-national groups. So the magic items, feats, pclasses and such were tied to that style of setting.
I wouldn't expect to take a feat or pclass meant for The Red Death's Victoriana Gaslight Horror and an item from Eberron's magitechish steampunk into the Realms without some major overhaul. But that's just me.
One way to go is to make all the settings a little closer to each other in style and make the rules elements as generic as possible. All the setting need focus on is theme. I'm cool with the generic rules. Not so cool with all the settings being High Fantasy and it being a matter of what flavor of High Fantasy you're using and what you use to spice it up .
Why does it matter?
Well, let's face it. The Realms is a Brand. It originally typified a style of play. Now it doesn't and the lack of its distinct trademarked logo is a sign that it will be moving away from distinctness.
Kinda like lamenting the loss of Indiana Jones and the (tm) for Generic Male Hero Doing Stuff. It is sort of wearing away out our expectations. First we loose the logo. Then the flavor. Now don't be surprised when it is as distinct as Greyhawk.
The only place you'll fly Greyhawk still living and breathing is in the RPGA. Oh, wait. That ends on December 31st, 2008 and many folks have already given up on it before the finale has even run. As a playtester of the finale for LG, let me just say "Yes!!! Awesome!!!! More please!!!!!!" And that is the part we were able to play after the author's computer ate half the mod.
Can you play D&D whether or not there is a logo on the book? Sure. Will it remain the Realms (in any flavor or incarnation) if the lack of a logo is but the first of many moves to make the Realms not stand out so as not to distract people from playing D&D? Mmmmmm, that is the $60,000 question.
To go back to your analogy of an X-box 360 game without the X-box 360 logo. That isn't apt. D&D is the X-box 360 part. That is still there. This is a Final Fantasy game that doesn't have the Final Fantasy logo or name on the cover but does have the Playstation 3 logo very prominent. Add to that the question of whether or not Cid is going to show up. Folks are wondering, "if Final Fantasy XXVI doesn't say Final Fantasy XXVI on the cover, will it really get the support as FF I through FF XXV? Will it really play like, feel like Final Fantasy?"
I definitely can agree with most of that... except the RPGA stuff. Don't like that sort of gaming, but to each their own. I'm guessing I really am a semi-closeted control freak when it comes to the storyline I'm pursuing as a DM. :D
Well, the Living style campaigns are really for the players. To be the "gm" of the game, you'ld have to be the administrator (Triad or Circle for LG, Administrator or Global Administrator for LFR, etc). As an admin you'ld get to decide plot lines and story arcs. Otherwise, you're running someone else's idea.
My points were a) other than LG, what support has WoTC given Greyhawk (and that is going away)? and b) the finale was coooooooooool.
My first point was meant to foreshadow a possible future for FR as it's brand is slowly pushed out of the limelight in favor of generic portability. The second was a reminder to the LG players that "it ain't over till Tharizdun kicks in your door!" I was going to say till the fat lady sings, but a reference to He Who Sleeps is just inherently cooler.
I don't really like the idea of playing with semi-strangers though, much less in an open, noisy setting. I like my small, intimate environs and get nervous in large open spaces with too many people in them. ;)
Heh, I know, but as I never actually get to be a player...
I don't really like the idea of playing with semi-strangers though, much less in an open, noisy setting. I like my small, intimate environs and get nervous in large open spaces with too many people in them. ;)
Yeah, it is a whole different mind set. I remember when the RPGA adapted Mad God's Key from Dungeon as an LG mod. They came out with an AR for the thing so it could be played and included just like any other LG mod. I was in town when a friend was running it for some folks new to the RPGA. He offered me a seat so I could jump start a new character (Mad God gives enough experience for a character to go at least from 1st to 2nd if not 3rd).
The guys were used to a home game where maybe you make a session, maybe you don't. Maybe you get through things in one night. Maybe you don't. Me? One round = 3.5 fights + a bit of roleplay + some Gather Info + some time to fill out the AR = 4 hours. Now Mad God's Key wasn't a traditional one round LG mod, but I was in town for only a day. I was trying to get through things and get it done. Every one else would show up when the could, head off when other things called them away, and general were of the attitude "we'll finish when we finish." I had to find a second table to even finish the mod as we were lucky to get half way through in a single 6 hour session.
For the record, the finale is a two round mod = 8 hours max in a convention setting. The previous special (and part one of the Finale Series) was the same. My group finished both in 6 hours and still did a fair bit of NPC interaction. Granted both are really dungeon delves with an interesting story to pull the encounters into a cohessive whole, but there is a chance to interact with some real movers and shakers of Greyhawk.
It may seem nitpicky to complain about the missing FR logo, but I too am upset about it. I liked how in the previous editions, the FR books were uniquely branded. I liked the art on the FR stuff moreso then the normal D&D sources. The FR logo not being on the front covers of the new source books is just another part of setting that I liked that's now been taken away from me in 4e.
-I'd like it if all of the different settings had different groups of artists working on their artwork. Eberron has it's own feel, and should have it's own art style. Ravenloft has it's own feel, and should have it's own art style. The Forgotten Realms has it's own feel, and should have it's own art style. And on on...
Realms Forgotten, indeed.
So, do we know for sure Eb is getting a logo? There was one on that book shown at the con, but it was just a mock-up. Eberron is still over a year away, so they may not be getting one as well.
Maybe they were trying to capture the 'spirit' of the setting... and they just 'Forgot' to give it a logo? ;)
Realms Forgotten, indeed.
