I'm currently running a Forgotten Realms game in 4e, and I've had the opportunity to more thoroughly read the FRPG and the FRCG. I get the impression that the superabundance of information on Forgotten Realms meant that a lot got cut from the FRCG, and so they only presented the most important details, and didn't necessarily do so in the most digestible format. If I want to look something particular up, I can often find more information in the Forgotten Realms wiki.
My difficulty comes up in identifying themes, which I use as a guideline to convey a unique feeling for my campaign settings. In Eberron the themes were pretty clear: Pulp and noir aesthetics permeate the whole setting, along with some cold war intrigue. When I read through the FRCG, I don't come away with any central themes.
It might just be the presentation of the 4e book, or it might be intentional. Are the totally disparate kingdoms and peoples of Forgotten Realms supposed to indicate a theme of extreme fantastical diversity? Perhaps that is meant to lead to a pervasive sense of wonder and the unknown? Are the gods and their frequent interactions with Toril (along with deaths, ascensions and so forth) supposed to suggest that the world is in a constant state of flux, or that that the deities are truly engaged in meaningful conflicts? If they are engaged in meaningful conflicts, is there any unifying element behind what these conflicts are about? The spellplague was a pretty big deal that did a lot of damage to Faerun, but more than a hundred years later, most people don't remember a world that was any different. How much should the Spellplague impact the themes of the game?
Of course, I know the easy answers: The themes are whatever you want them to be. And certainly, I'll tailor things to my preferences. But I also want to convey an "authentic" Forgotten Realms experience to my players. So to all the players more experienced with the Realms than I, what do you consider to be the core themes? What makes Forgotten Realms what it is? What is it to you?
Edit: Also, how do I pronounce Faerun? I'm not sure what the accent mark over the 'u' is supposed to indicate.
Edit: Also, how do I pronounce Faerun? I'm not sure what the accent mark over the 'u' is supposed to indicate.
I've always pronounced it 'Fay-rune'.
As for the 'theme' of the Realms? The overarching theme I like can be summed up in the great Grey Box introduction:
That which follows is a brief introduction to the world of the Forgotten Realms, with hopes to entertain, illuminate, and provide information in campaigns using the ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS® system. This tome and the cyclopedia it contains, with its companion volume, the DM’s Sourcebook of the Realms, should allow the creation of an individual campaign setting using this world.
The Forgotten Realms are a world very similar to the Earth of the 13th and 14th centuries. Most of the area under discussion here has until recently been covered by wild forests and unsettled grasslands. Civilization is still a novelty in much of this world, even the oldest of cities on the Inland Sea, or the founding of Waterdeep, the greatest City of the North, are within the memory of the oldest living elves of Evermeet.
The people of these realms (including man, dwarf, elf, gnome, and halfling) are similar in mindset and advancement to the men of the 13th century. City-states are common, and nations on the increase as more of the wild lands are pushed back and gathered under a single king or government. Skills such as metalworking, farming, and craft-industry are common in the civilized lands, so that swords and heavy metal armor are all-too available to the warrior. Literacy and the quest for knowledge in on the rise, with the recent introduction of printed hand-bills in Waterdeep. The merchants-class is increasing in both wealth and power as more markets and resources open up. Faith, while not as dominant as in Europe of this period, is a major force in the lives of the people.
There are great differences between that world and this as well. Great beasts and evil humanoids wander the wild (and not-so-wild) country of the Forgotten Realms. Ruins of ancient cities and towers may be found among the underbrush, old lands and names that are lost to memory and the past. And there is magic.
Some individuals of the Forgotten Realms have the ability to channel magical energies, allowing them to perform mighty tasks. Others receive such abilities with the blessing of extra-planar beings known as Powers. These magic-users and clerics can reshape the face of the world, and indeed have done so over the millennia. Hills and forests may appear where there have been none before, and mountains may move several miles. A great sandy waste has been moving further south in the heart of the Realms, matched by a sheet of ice, equally relentless, to its east. Neither of these may be the fault of nature alone, but the meddling of spell-casters, human and otherwise.
Finally, the Realms are a land of adventure, and therefore adventurers. It is the time of heroes, when one man of pure heart (or with a powerful artifact) may hold his own against enemy hordes, where legions of evil forces may muster and be destroyed by the actions of a few, where the nations rise and fall on magical tides which mere men can control. It is a time when the bold and the lucky may make their fortunes and gain great power over their worlds.
The information presented herein is as known to myself, those about me in the lands north and west of the Sea of Fallen Stars, and those I have encountered in my travels. On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. All stories presented are as I have heard them and had them recorded, all information is checked as best as possible given the limited resources of an old man in a small town (even if that old man has the power to flatten mountains, mind you). As you adventure in this fantasy world, be warned that not all things are as they appear, and trust to your wits, your weapons, and your common sense in surviving and profiting from the Forgotten Realms.
As recorded by Lhaeo, Scribe to the Sage Elminster of Shadowdale, 30th and last day of Nightal, Year of the Prince, 1357 Dalereckoning
But of course, some regions have different themes. The wild North with the Companions of the Hall is more apt to be about survival and exploration of an untamed land. Waterdeep and its hidden Undermountain is a prime example of an urban setting with all the twists and turns of a Parisian sewer. Cormyr adventures deal with honest, goodly adventurers being caught up between goblin raids and courtly intrigue. The Daleslands are key areas of ancient forests and stubborn villages that are often the place where evil tries to take hold only to be turned back by a cobbler with a pitchfork and a deep love of his homeland.
Then, of course, there are the Moonshaes with their druidic moonwells, keeping the balance between nature and rot; Calimshan, city of pashas and thieves (but it's up to you to figure out which is which) and far-flung Kara-tur, land of samurai, ninjas and wu jen.
The best tonal introduction was published in The Best of the Realms, Book II: The Stories of Ed Greenwood and can also be found in my post here.
Some of the Realms' central themes are:
-- conflicts between really old demihuman, old human royal and noble, and rising human mercantile influence, and between centralized nations (Cormyr or Amn or Thay) and dispersed government (the Western Heartlands, the Dales)
-- how the magical Art is used responsibly and otherwise
-- the way love and memory (on both human and generational scales) strengthen individuals and societies against forces that impinge on them
-- how people facing strife and death (especially adventurers) cope by camaraderie and making light of heavy things
-- how lives and history proceed through layers of manipulation, and the difference between human dignity and value and the exertion of such power
You may find Ed Greenwood's list of influences, such as here, interesting. The Realms is at least as affected by the pulps as Eberron, albeit more by heroic fantasy and weird fiction and less by the adventure pulps, but also by elements of high fantasy via authors like J.R.R. Tolkien and Guy Gavriel Kay. The overall tone is humanistic, hopeful, wry but uncynical.
The gods were very much not intended to have frequent interaction with Toril except through dream-visions and such small manifestations -- that's entirely an artefact of novels trying to repeat the sales of 1989's Avatar trilogy, and quite at odds with the setting's history prior to that ongoing novel timeline. The gods rarely act in Faerûn on a large scale: that's why the Time of Troubles in 1358 DR was supposed to be such a cataclysmic shock. It's the priesthoods who act.
Faerûn is pronounced 'Fayroon' or 'Fayeroon': the circumflex indicates a long u sound in Realms orthography.
I'd be happy to help further.
Ancient, dusty, Forgotten, ruins and menhirs, lost cities and fallen empires, Creator Races and long-gone Dragon and Giant Realms...
OLD
I once made a comment over at Candlekeep that "I feel like I can't walk ten feet in the Realms without tripping over the ruins of some fallen land", and the response from THO (Ed's 'mouthpiece') was "Bingo! Thats exactly the feel Ed tried to instill in his Realms".
Even in the remotest places in Faerûn, once kingdoms stood, and people fought and died. You may not even recognize them because they are SO old... a boulder, a moss-covered section of wall, a jumble of stones... but everwhere are the legacies of the past, and when those Forgotten Realms were hale and whole, they too were built upon the ruins and relics of even more ancient lands.
History... thats what the Realms are all about.
I once made a comment over at Candlekeep that "I feel like I can't walk ten feet in the Realms without tripping over the ruins of some fallen land"...
-That's because they all seem to be rising once more, right beneath our feet and noses!
Elves are vile nasty creatures.
QFT.
I've been thinking about having 'Elf Repellent' available in my Adventurer's supply shops. :D
It smells like 'progress'.
In spanish the word "duende" is used for both elfs and goblins.... coincidence, you be the judge....
"The truth is out there"!
:D
OLD
Ancient, dusty, Forgotten, ruins and menhirs, lost cities and fallen empires, Creator Races and long-gone Dragon and Giant Realms...
OLD
I once made a comment over at Candlekeep that "I feel like I can't walk ten feet in the Realms without tripping over the ruins of some fallen land", and the response from THO (Ed's 'mouthpiece') was "Bingo! Thats exactly the feel Ed tried to instill in his Realms".
Even in the remotest places in Faerûn, once kingdoms stood, and people fought and died. You may not even recognize them because they are SO old... a boulder, a moss-covered section of wall, a jumble of stones... but everwhere are the legacies of the past, and when those Forgotten Realms were hale and whole, they too were built upon the ruins and relics of even more ancient lands.
History... thats what the Realms are all about.
And frankly the idea that there are noticeable ancient settlements everywhere is a very silly idea, and should be apparent as such to anyone who applies a moderate amount of thought to the concept. Isolated buildings, temporary camps, and occasional villages, yes. Kingdoms, not much chance really. There are perfectly solid reasons why some sites get settled again and again and others are ignored, mostly to do with environmental geography.
In spanish the word "duende" is used for both elfs and goblins.... coincidence, you be the judge....
-Really? That really sounds confusing. What do books and stuff that reference both Elves and Goblin do about that?
The Green Goblin= El duende verde
Kibbler Elf = Duende de Kibbler
I knew it!
The simple fact is that in folklore 'Elves' and 'Goblins' are basically the same thing - strange little people who live in remote places who don't like mortals (humans) intruding on them.
'Elf' and 'Dwarf' are also the same thing, because the Nordic term Svartálfar can mean either, or both, and is apparently where Gary Gygax got the idea for Drow.
Which is why I have it where all 'little people' - which would include Elves, Dwarves, and Halflings - originated in Faerie, and are the 'light' versions of the Goblinoids. The whole 'Seelie' and 'Unseelie' fey thing taken to an extreme, over thousands of years of evolution and living on a multitude of 'mortal (prime material) worlds'.
The only difference between an Elf an Orc is that an Orc's visage reflects the darkness within. Kinda Tokienesque... but Tolkien was a smart man. ;)
Some of the Realms' central themes are:
-- conflicts between really old demihuman, old human royal and noble, and rising human mercantile influence, and between centralized nations (Cormyr or Amn or Thay) and dispersed government (the Western Heartlands, the Dales)
I think there are some area's were these conflicts have waned, but good examples of the rise of the new vs the settled can be found almost in everypart of the published realms.
-- how the magical Art is used responsibly and otherwise
Indeed, the realms is a setting which pays attention to the use of magic, in the sense of how it effects work out on both target and caster. Volo's Guide to All Things Magical shows a little of the mystical base elements of Torils spellcrafting. Magical catalysts such as gems, arcane symbolism and powercomponents give the use of spellmagic a very unpredictable twist. A simple cantrip can sway the outcome of an encounter. Wastefully weaving spells leads to exhaustion and eventual downfall faster.
-- the way love and memory (on both human and generational scales) strengthen individuals and societies against forces that impinge on them
Bards can play a large part in maintaining some memories of events in a nation or village's past. Clergies such as Sune's and Sharess work actively to encourage cohesion. Familial structures such as old houses and clans try to maintain close through oral tradition, manners of speech, code of cunduct.
-- how people facing strife and death (especially adventurers) cope by camaraderie and making light of heavy things
Indeed often times the adventurers are the only points of light in a dark dangerous dungeon.
-- how lives and history proceed through layers of manipulation, and the difference between human dignity and value and the exertion of such power
Uncle Ben's: "With great power comes great responcability." against machiavellian notions such as: "If you must take strong action do it all at once. Incremental malice only gives your adversaries time to respond." and "Morality is ultimately defined by those with superior force and sufficient time."
Why can't Elves be corrupted Orcs?
Thats why you have to put a different spin on it... a more 'Realmsian' spin...
Why can't Elves be corrupted Orcs?
I love it! :D
Could it be that when the eladrin migrated to Toril they brought orcs unwittingly with them? Gruumsh is fond of tracking the elflord down where ever he may go, so perhaps the pious conversion of the elves to the Seldarine has led the native orc tribes of Toril (probably still worshipping primal totems) to revolutionairy worship to Gruumsh.
That orcs had a hand in creating the elves into what they are now I can understand, as in the predawn times they were the force that poured from the mountians into the valleys forests, forcing elves to congregate. When the latter eladrin came, it was easier to convert the mourning elves to follow the Seldarine. The tears of Sehanine mixed with Correllons blood from his battle with Gruumsh are supposedly the process in which eladrin came into being. This might have been symbolic for the deaths and wars the elves on Toril (and elsewhere) have fought with orcs in ages past.
Isolated buildings, temporary camps, and occasional villages, yes. Kingdoms, not much chance really. There are perfectly solid reasons why some sites get settled again and again and others are ignored, mostly to do with environmental geography.
Certainly. Now how are those precepts modified by the inclusion of Magic and its effects on environmental geography? Is it really safe to assume this degree of similarity when there have Magic wielders of significant capacity since the time of the Creator Races? Please someone correct me if I am in error but the general time period spanned there is about 35 millenia, since major civilizations are supposed to have arisen on Toril. How long have we human beings been at it? If memory serves, about half that time (being generous)... under significantly different conditions. Magical fallout, deific intervention, demonic invasion... there are so many things which may explain why one site was abandoned that have very little to do with environmental geography.
That, for me personally and wholly in my own opinion, is oversimplifying the matter. However, your milage may vary.
Think about it...both are magical 'performers' with sexual ambiguity.
Anyhow, as to what Iluvrien posted - AGREED. I didn't bother to answer that post myself, because I didn't think it was a very logical conclusion given Toril's past (which you addressed, in part).
We've had at least three tear-falls, an Elven Sundering, and an Ao sundering! All of those have majorly changed the geography, not to mention the climate.
Add to that all the magical disasters (like the ones that created Anauroch, the Calim Desert, and the Raurin), and the little Ice-ages and Global Warming (also several instances of that), entire civilizations have disappeared beneath the sands and the waves in Faerûn in regions people can't build again. If you read some of Ed's older 2e sources, you will see that there were plenty of of other islands and at least one peninsula that formed the basis for kingdoms along the Swordcoast that are now gone.
Its not that Faerûn doesn't make sense, but rather fantasy world civilizations tends to last longer, either directly due to magic, or because there are races that can remember back that far. I'm sure Earth had hunreds of Kingdoms more then 7000 years ago... but knowledge of their existance hasn't survived, and unless we know exactly where to dig, we'll never find evidence of them.
Nearly every major archaelogical dig was discovered by accident (like those terracotta warriors in China).
Certainly. Now how are those precepts modified by the inclusion of Magic and its effects on environmental geography? Is it really safe to assume this degree of similarity when there have Magic wielders of significant capacity since the time of the Creator Races? Please someone correct me if I am in error but the general time period spanned there is about 35 millenia, since major civilizations are supposed to have arisen on Toril. How long have we human beings been at it? If memory serves, about half that time (being generous)... under significantly different conditions. Magical fallout, deific intervention, demonic invasion... there are so many things which may explain why one site was abandoned that have very little to do with environmental geography.
That, for me personally and wholly in my own opinion, is oversimplifying the matter. However, your milage may vary.
If there are regular cataclysms of a nature that alters the environment, then structures built by the sentient races aren't going to survive in a form that is going to be recognised 35 millenia later. It will depend on the nature of the structure, but there aren't a huge number of five millenia old sites around in recognisable form IRL. And in as long a history as we're talking about, there's plenty of time for another group to come along and resettle a desirable site.
Of course, if there are this large series of world-altering magical cataclysms, it make the Spellplague just another regular event.
Nah... Corellon is an aspect of Michael Jackson. :P
Think about it...both are magical 'performers' with sexual ambiguity.
Anyhow, as to what Iluvrien posted - AGREED. I didn't bother to answer that post myself, because I didn't think it was a very logical conclusion given Toril's past (which you addressed, in part).
We've had at least three tear-falls, an Elven Sundering, and an Ao sundering! All of those have majorly changed the geography, not to mention the climate.
Add to that all the magical disasters (like the ones that created Anauroch, the Calim Desert, and the Raurin), and the little Ice-ages and Global Warming (also several instances of that), entire civilizations have disappeared beneath the sands and the waves in Faerûn in regions people can't build again. If you read some of Ed's older 2e sources, you will see that there were plenty of of other islands and at least one peninsula that formed the basis for kingdoms along the Swordcoast that are now gone.
Its not that Faerûn doesn't make sense, but rather stuff on a fantasy world civilizations tends to last longer, either directly due to magic, or because there are races that can remember back that far. I'm sure Earth had hunreds of Kingdoms more then 7000 years ago... but knowledge of their existance hasn't survived, and unless we know exactly where to dig, we'll never find evidence of them.
Nearly every major archaelogical dig was discovered by accident (like those terracotta warriors in China).
The whole argument (excluding your comments at the end about archaeology) amounts to "It makes sense because magic did it". Which it's rather pointless arguing about, since different people are always going to have entirely different views on what magic is or is not capable of. Of course, if major magical catastrophes are so frequent objecting to the Spellplague seems to be objecting to something quite predictable.
I will flesh some example types out as it seems we need to do this long-hand:
a) Addition of unpleasant creatures...
Either through summoning, invasion or an extra-planar incursion a force of creatures is either dumped or continuously fed into a settled location. The population either ups and leaves or is destroyed. Over time if the alien population decreases you may see it either remain empty as it has fallen into disrepair, be resettled, be kept as a monument to those fallen, be kept empty but ringed with watchers just in case the same happens again... etc. Result: Ruin, with no environmental factors.
b) Magical Fallout...
A spell battle, experiment or just plain bad luck leads to a spell or item damaging either the people or the environment. If the people are all killed then others may not go back for fear. If they are just damaged or sickened then attempts at resettlement may be attempted. If there is a persistent effect then it may be that nobody wants to go near. This could be reflavoured any of a thousand ways... none of which seem very unlikely in Faerun. Same result.
c) Deific Intervention...
A god is incarnated, or dies or fights or designates this place as a place of importance. Especially if it is a god of a population that is now dead or just plain gone (with or without the population's removal). Good reasons to avoid a place unless you are foolhardy or an adventurer (in which case foolhardiness is assumed). A few legends here and there, maybe some loot, nobody in a hurry to move back after they moved the first time. Same result.
d) Better opportunities...
Either natural resources are wearing thin, or the grass really is greener on the other sider. A larger portion of the population decides that there is a place that is easier for them to subsist than in the place now. They up and leave. Obviously since dressed stone is hard to come by they might take as much as they can but there will still be a fair amount left. Same Result. And this one has happened, even in our world, just look at the old mining and prospecting camps in parts of the US and New Zealand.
That is a few minutes of cerebral effort on the subject of a few of the ideas I had about why sites might be abandoned and remain abandoned for a few millenia. It doesn't need to be the entire stretch of the 35, but there is certainly enough time and enough reasons for the existance of ruinous settlements in significant quantity to not be a "very silly idea".
EDIT:
The whole argument (excluding your comments at the end about archaeology) amounts to "It makes sense because magic did it". Which it's rather pointless arguing about, since different people are always going to have entirely different views on what magic is or is not capable of. Of course, if major magical catastrophes are so frequent objecting to the Spellplague seems to be objecting to something quite predictable.
No. The argument is that that basis of your suggestion that the idea of ruinous settlements is implausible while not taking account of the existance of a strong and continuous factor on the daily existance of any resident on the surface of Toril is incomplete. Saying that the argument boils down to "magic did it" is, again, oversimplification and mischaracterisation. We don't have to say magic did it, we just have to say that you can't say it won't happen while ignoring magic as a factor.
Just a cursory look at a place like the Swarzwald in Germany, or any number of other sites throughout Europe tells us that communities can disappear very quickly under some circumstances. Its a rarity these days, with modern technology to assist with disaster relief and communications being able to reach distant capitals and neighbors, but that's a relatively recent development when it comes down to it.
Considering Toril is a world with active vulcanism (despite the existance of the Underdark), I can see entire cities just disappearing overnight.
There was one in The Orc King (Baffenburg) that vanished, being swallowed by the earth, never to be seen again (and somehow completely forgotten about).
A river altering its course over a long period of time could very well spell the end of a settlement... as could prolonged drought, or a situation like the one at the recently discovered Sahara settlements. Or some wizard diverting a river because he wants his tower over here instead of over there and making life extremely precarious for those who depended on the river flowing in a particular way. A freak tsunami even...
-See, quite aptly, the Forgotten Realms novel Star of Curserah, one of my favorites.
No idea, don't bother with most of the novels. :P
-Well, if you only read one, then, I might recommend that one. Either that one, or Evermeet: Island of the Elves, which is similar, in many respects. Both have two concurrent stories taking place during different eras, in which the past influences the future- a definite theme of the setting.
Tana was turned into a bookworm that became infatuated with the first man who paid attention to her... it just didn't make a whole lot of sense. Then her going from a spoiled princess to an Earth-grubbing Chauntea worshipper seemed extremely... forced.
However, the 'spoiled brat' learns her lesson and "comes around" is a mainstay of Ed's - he used it again in Swords of Eveningstar (which was kinda sad, the way that particular storyline ended... much like Tana's, come to think of it).
how was Tana ever going to be able to carve out her own thematic niche?Her end was... interesting though, I will give her that. Sadly the likelihood that we will say anything about the other, favoured, three is about the same as seeing more of her. And I find myself pretty damn f.... peeved about that.
Azoun did have a son that died, and Cormyrian law does forbid nobility from being resurrected (causes WAY too many inheritance problems)... but Vangy was never one to follow the rules. Someone really should check that kid's tomb and make sure it's occupied...
The other possibility is an heir from Impiltur - IIRC, that first Queen (Suzarra?) left with her youngest son when she headed back there, which means there should be a legitimate heir floating around somwhere, if the family line survived.
That lineage is NDA, BTW, which really makes one wonder...
Though I'd dread the idea of Suzara's lineage ever bearing out anything. Given that she probably went back to Impiltur, the heir is likely to be a thrall to some succubi queen (guess which one) in secret... sounds about the sort of thing they're going for these days.
How much should the Spellplague impact the themes of the game?
My experience running the 4E Realms so far has been that the Spellplague should always be an influence in the game.
Your question about the disparate kingdoms of the Realms pointing towards diversity and the unknown is spot on in my opinion. I think there are a lot of gamers out there who are familiar with parts of the Realms, so by adding the mysterious kingdoms of Akanûl and Tymanther (amongst others) a DM has a chance to mix in core elements of the 4E rules (i.e. new races, etc...) with the better parts of the Realms that weren't destroyed by the Spellplague.
This is why I think a theme of the 4E Realms is exploration of the unknown. Through the Spellplague DMs and players have an endless number of adventure opportunities with which to discover just what's changed, what's new, what's the same, etc...
But I also want to convey an "authentic" Forgotten Realms experience to my players. So to all the players more experienced with the Realms than I, what do you consider to be the core themes? What makes Forgotten Realms what it is? What is it to you?
Farear listed some excellent generalist themes about the Realms earlier. Without dissuading you from following those, I would only add that the thematic elements in the 3E Realms that you found can naturally carry forward into your 4E game.
Any good DM wants to bring authenticity into their game on the assumption that it will provide a unique setting experience for their players. I would suggest that the best that the Realms has to offer hasn't gone away.
Hey Misc, long time no see. :D
Amazing how she went from her father's right hand daughter to weepy little victim in just one novel...
-Keep in mind what was going on in that novel.
Tanalasta was a complete disappointment, IMHO.
Although she redeemed herself in the end, and became more like her sister, I thought the dramatic polar switch in her personality was a bit unbelievable (and obviously too late to help her).
Book 1: Intellectual
Book 2: Weepy Bimbo
Book 3: Strong Princess
Not that it couldn't happen, but it happened rather quickly, when WAY too much other stuff was also going on (even after re-reading that series, that war still confuses the hell out of me).
Anyhow, it IS good to see you back on the boards, Misc.
Still...it definately shows the weakness of her character; she falls apart when the crap hits the fan. Alusair, on the other hand, rises to the occassion.
Tanalasta was a complete disappointment, IMHO.
Although she redeemed herself in the end, and became more like her sister, I thought the dramatic polar switch in her personality was a bit unbelievable (and obviously too late to help her).
Book 1: Intellectual
Book 2: Weepy Bimbo
Book 3: Strong Princess
Not that it couldn't happen, but it happened rather quickly, when WAY too much other stuff was also going on (even after re-reading that series, that war still confuses the hell out of me).
-And, it's a "good" thing that she wasn't able to take the throne. Imaging how she would have handled the Shadovar.
Indeed... from the princess who took most after her awesome mother...
For the statement up to this point, you sir, win today's cookie
.I found most descriptions of pastry in realms fiction make my mouth water. ;)