I haven't seen much mention of this, but maybe I missed it. The Harpers were pretty much one of my favorite organizations in my old [long time ago] games in the Realms. Is there any mention of how they intend to set us up the Realms without bards [which are a core to the harper organization]?
In a ten year jump from the current time line, during and after the Spellplague--which really doesn't exist and, therefore, is not valid (I'll let LK explain ;) )--bards are alive and fine. They, in fact, do better than wizards themselves during all their troubles.
While I personally think bards are retarded (at least these days)--and no offense to you--I do not see them going away.
First of all, they can call themselves whatever they want, fantasy characters don't actually have class levels that they are cognizant of.
Secondly, Bard is not ready at launch, but it will be rolled out eventually in a subsequent PHB.
i dont see the Bard going anywhere, its been around in one form or another for ages
in about 1 years time along with the druid, swashbuckler, gnome, half-orc, sorcerer and or as ddi.
i dont see the Bard going anywhere, its been around in one form or another for ages
So was Mystra, Helm, Tyr, the Weave, Mastica anmong other stuff
does it matter, no one is playing 4e realms anyway, right?
I am at least reading the books, and will switch if it's at least as good as now.
And others will.
I am at least reading the books, and will switch if it's at least as good as now.
so. we know you won't
does it matter, no one is playing 4e realms anyway, right?
None of your forum pals will be playing it. Do they really represent the average FR fan or the "super" fan alla Trekkie? Seriously. These forums and it's posters and lurkers who don't post are a drop in the consumer bucket. If you think otherwise...
None of your forum pals will be playing it. Do they really represent the average FR fan or the "super" fan alla Trekkie? Seriously. These forums and it's posters and lurkers who don't post are a drop in the consumer bucket. If you think otherwise...
I don't think otherwise. But what they do represent is the core, uber-fan. And what WoTC has done is perhaps completely and utterly alienate them in an effort to attract the Warcraft crowd. Alienating the fans you have in the hope you can attract others almost always doesn't work.
I haven't seen much mention of this, but maybe I missed it. The Harpers were pretty much one of my favorite organizations in my old [long time ago] games in the Realms. Is there any mention of how they intend to set us up the Realms without bards [which are a core to the harper organization]?
What is the attraction to the Harpers though? I've asked some friends in the area to tell me about the Harpers, and everything I hear about them makes them sound like they were simply custom designed to hand out quests to adventurers.
That trope might be inaccurate, but it isn't attractive to me at all and I don't see anything that contradicts it.
It seemed to me that they were a pretty important to the stability of the Realms and I hadn't heard anything that gave me any hints about them.
It seemed to me that they were a pretty important to the stability of the Realms and I hadn't heard anything that gave me any hints about them.
Yeah, but they had already splintered as an organization. And now all their big power players are deceased or defunct. I would count them out. If they haven't all together disappeared, I would see them morphing in purpose--perhaps as more a vigilante group than a secret coop to thwart evil doers the world over.
Indeed. Which is why I suggest that their purpose may have changed, in order to keep from conflicting with the "real heroes."
Bah, As if Pc couldn't be Harpers themselfs
Bah, As if Pc couldn't be Harpers themselfs
No doubt. Several characters in campaigns I've played in were Harpers and provided some good fodder for adventurers.
All the same, a lot of people look at them as an outside influence or simply don't want to complicate their game by making a PC one of them. Don't know why--just is.
So, if people are complaining that they interfere, WotC will probably remove them, much like everything else.
does it matter, no one is playing 4e realms anyway, right?
If I run into a group of people here who play D&D, I'll join. I don't care if it's AD&D, 3.x, 4.0, FR, GH, Ebberon, or a flying cow. If there's a gaming party, I will play... I only have NWN/NWN2, and ToEE to keep my D&D hunger in check... Well, I also have Demon Stone and Bulders Gate for the PS2, but they don't count.
If I run into a group of people here who play D&D, I'll join. I don't care if it's AD&D, 3.x, 4.0, FR, GH, Ebberon, or a flying cow.
May I ask which edition of Flying Cow?
Would that be:
Trebuchet Launches Flying Cow (From Monty Python) (AD&D - 3E)
Cow Jumps Over The Moon (Fairy Tales) (4E)
Cows With Guns Who Fly (Modern)
Just wondering which edition so I know which group to join.
:P :D
Just be glad you don't have Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor... awful game. Couldn't even bring myself to finish the damned thing...
I couldn't even bring myself to play past five minutes of it. And, as if the game wasn't crappy enough, they give you the bonus soundtrack, which is horrid in its own right. Total waste of $65.
May I ask which edition of Flying Cow?
Would that be:
Trebuchet Launches Flying Cow (From Monty Python) (AD&D - 3E)
Cow Jumps Over The Moon (Fairy Tales) (4E)
Cows With Guns Who Fly (Modern)
Just wondering which edition so I know which group to join.
:P :D
I don't really think the edition matters, or did you miss that part? :P
Just be glad you don't have Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor... awful game. Couldn't even bring myself to finish the damned thing...
I've seen it at Wal-Mart, or I used too... The Wal-Mart here sucks. Granted, half the time I can't play ToEE. It keeps crashing... Seriously, I thought my copy of TES3: Morrowind was bad about crashes. Oy...
does it matter, no one is playing 4e realms anyway, right?
You may believe that because on forums, people would tend to place their complaints about something rather than randomly praising it.
I for one am going to play 4e Realms, as well as my homebrew campaign (switching off).
But not by myself. That wouldn't be as much fun.
That being said I'm looking forward to 4E realms. Seems like an interesting change of pace to me.
Also, lets keep the "For or Against 4e FR" debate OUT of threads that don't involve that particular topic? All it does is derail the topic.
Well, its probably been mentioned, and I didn't probably see, but if I remember, no one knows where a bard's power comes from, its just classified as arcane. So likely they survived the spell plague. However, I could be wrong, and the Harpers may be obliterated.
Also, lets keep the "For or Against 4e FR" debate OUT of threads that don't involve that particular topic? All it does is derail the topic.
Bards survive the SpellPlague without a doubt. Their magic is arcane, but how they can control it better then wizards and such is a subject that is in complete disarray.
And good luck trying to keep threads from derailment. It's like unanimous agreement: we all want it, but are completely incapable of sustaining it as a whole. :D
Bards survive the SpellPlague without a doubt. Their magic is arcane, but how they can control it better then wizards and such is a subject that is in complete disarray.
certainly bards will be around. They will probably be in the PHB2 which means they will be in FR
If you need 4th ed rules and the bard isn't out yet, that is what I would do: take a ranger, give him a banjo, and pronto: instant harper.
Migth also work with a warlord or even a wizard.
Which reminds me that I have to give my PC (not a harper, btw), a musical instrument.
Which ones would be well fit for FR?
Gomez
How do you all think perform will be handled mechanicly in 4e? Trained charisma checks for bards?
It is correct that the Player's Guide will only have the SwordMage and not the Bard? Or do we even know?
do we know the Swordmage is appearing in the FR Players Guide as opposed to the PHB2 next year
do we know the Swordmage is appearing in the FR Players Guide as opposed to the PHB2 next year
Yes we do. Although that doesn't necessarily rule out the Swordmage appearing in the PHB2, as well. I can see it getting reprinted there, so that those who want the class, but aren't interested in the Realms, get a little more bang for their buck (by getting the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk, and Sorcerer in addition to the Swordmage).
Yes we do. Although that doesn't necessarily rule out the Swordmage appearing in the PHB2, as well. I can see it getting reprinted there, so that those who want the class, but aren't interested in the Realms, get a little more bang for their buck (by getting the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk, and Sorcerer in addition to the Swordmage).
OK. You're right it may get reprinted there or on DDi. I would suspect another new class, such as the Shaman, in PHB2
Yeah, I'm hoping the PHB2 is also 320 pages. Because if it is, they'll be able to pack in a nice amount of extra classes in there (No Skills, Adventuring, or Combat Chapters make for a lot of extra space). We may also see a Divine Controller, too (maybe called a Priest?), as well as a couple Psionic classes. Maybe the Necromancer and Illusionist, too. We'll see. Can't wait to get my hands on it, though. I'm itching to try out the 4E Barbarian and Sorcerer (and if it has it, a Psionic Defender, too. The Psychic Warrior, maybe?).
I wasn't aware they were going to revive the whole psionics thing. If they do, I imagine teiflings will have a corner market on it.
But yeah, Psionics are coming back. The eight power sources will be: Arcane, Divine, Elemental, Ki, Martial, Primal, Psionic, and Shadow.
Why? Just wondering, as I've never seen Tieflings as being overtly psionic, at leats in comparison to most other races. It'd be sweet with a Githyanki or Githzerai character, though (oh, and Thri-Kreen, too. Man, I want some Thri-Kreen PC stats!).
But yeah, Psionics are coming back. The eight power sources will be: Arcane, Divine, Elemental, Ki, Martial, Primal, Psionic, and Shadow.
I'm so out of the know with the game mechanics.
Well, the thing with teiflings is just a hunch. And I can easily be corrected on this. Over the course of years, I can only recall two instances where psionic activity popped up in the novels: 1) that drow house during the ToT (name escapes me--Del' Margo?) and 2) Magadon from the current Cale novels.
Yes, there was that drow from the Sellswords (Kirian?), but I believe he was a survivor of the aforementioned drow house.
Either way, with such a drought taking place between the two appearances and with a teifling being the most recent, the reemergence of psionics and the new prominence of teiflings in the Realms just sort of clicks to me.
Well, I wouldn't say Tieflings are suddenly prominent in the Realms. They've been a mainstay race since 3rd edition. It's the Dragonborn who're making a sudden appearance in Faerun. Psionics in the PHB2, though, doesn't necessarily mean that psionics will be played up to a greater degree then before. Well, we'll see.
I'm aware that they have been around pretty consistently, I'm just saying that now that they are a core race, it may be an easy assumption that psionics will be core with them.
I would imagine though, that psionics appearance in the PHB could mean something. Have they ever done that before? I always thought they kept that segregated and churned out its own supplement for it.
Psionic defenders are definatley interesting to see made with the new rules, but I think the role of the Psychic warrior seemed like a striker in 3rd edition. Some build did tank well with the right builds though (expansion, biofeedback and claws of the beast anyone).
Mags being psionic and having a fiendsih bloodline are not inherently linked as far as I could tell from Kemps story. (Not started the latest trilogy yet) So tieflings have no aptitude with psionics above other races. In the realms mostly humans used it in the past (Jhaamdaath), and the odd goblinoid (Blues).
In novels only the 2 series of stories set in Dark Sun (with Agis, Sadira the hottest half elf in the multiverse, Rikus the mul and others) detailed psionics in D&D in fantasy scenes. On Athas all races showed aptitude for psionics but some had build in extra psionic abilities (like Gith and Thrikreen). Everyone could harbor a small hidden wildtalent in their minds.
Mags being psionic and having a fiendsih bloodline are not inherently linked as far as I could tell from Kemps story. (Not started the latest trilogy yet) So tieflings have no aptitude with psionics above other races. In the realms mostly humans used it in the past (Jhaamdaath), and the odd goblinoid (Blues).
Not saying it is. Just trying to suggest a potential reason to help rationalize why psionics suddenly make a return. You could very well say that, with magic suddenly lost and unpredictable, people turned to psionics to compensate. Though, I see this as kind of weak, because isn't this supposed to be something that is innate, rather than learned?
Either way, as we've seen, races can change a bit and pick up different qualities. Elves now fey step. Teiflings can easily pick up a larger aptitude for psionics.
Tieflings scream warlock to me... I dont think the inclusion of a new race is neccesary to introduce psionics in the realms as it is nor as it will be in 4e.
A big enough reason for a reemergance of the Invisible Art in the realms is the accesablity of the ruins of the twelve crystal cities of Jhaamdaath by the lowering if the coastlines of the Sea of the Fallen Stars. And certainly the spellplague will make psionicist more popular as they wont go an insane rampage.
Very good point. With the lowering of the coast line, Jhaamdaath secrets could very well emerge. Very cool indeed.
And, again, not saying anything is a good explanation, just throwin' some crap out for thought.
I do wonder how they gonna implement the "new" tiefling to the realms, as the "old" one had had several apearances as NPCs in the realms (my favourite being Hear'Dealis from BG2). The whole infernal empire stick doesn't abode well, as they probably shift some infernal plotline to succeed on the realms. Perhaps Gargauth succeeds in subpositioning a part of the realms to a hellish plane, or some cursed bloodline gets unleashed by the spellplague...
From all I've read, humans mages during and after the Spellplague, rather than attempt to reconnect with magic--which was uncertain at best--turned to demons and devils for power. Their price was half human offspring, which then moved forth and created their own nation.
Gargauth, I have heard nothing about. Though, I can easily see him surviving in some way.
So the tieflings are more like being with an infernal arcane bloodline. Ack... So they decided all those human fathers were on the right path and went forth seeking eachoter out creating the ultimate infernally bound arcane society? I am beginning to taste some flavour here though...
Couldn't tell you either way. And your view on potentials are the first I have heard on the matter. But, yes, definitely some possibilities there.
I think the gaol is to make FR as oppressive and evil ridden as can be--giving the PC's ample room for being hereos. So your hypothesis could very well be correct.
Time to get nasty!!
Yeah, baby!!
I agree that some areas need the oppresiveness amped up a bit, and team evil needs a few breaks too. But I would love to see a few very brightly shining points of light too. I love the harpers and the silverstars (whos female members with a bit of luck can be found gardening nekked save for some boots), they will definately have a place in my future realms campaigns.
It helps tiefling chicks are smoking hot! My characters would join that empire for that alone!
Once again, evil females rule.
I agree that some areas need the oppresiveness amped up a bit, and team evil needs a few breaks too. But I would love to see a few very brightly shining points of light too. I love the harpers and the silverstars (whos female members with a bit of luck can be found gardening nekked save for some boots), they will definately have a place in my future realms campaigns.
Harpers are still around to a degree--though how much is uncertain. Silverstars? Hmmm...never heard of them.
Silverstars are the other part of the harpers after the harperschism (Khelben Blackstaffs accomplices more or less). See Cloak and Dagger for the most comprehensive information on them.
They are?
Yes, they are.
Damn, boy! Stop wigglin' that ass and shake the hips!
Why can't anybody dance to my superbness?
Silverstars are the other part of the harpers after the harperschism (Khelben Blackstaffs accomplices more or less). See Cloak and Dagger for the most comprehensive information on them.
I thought they were called something else?
I think the gaol is to make FR as oppressive and evil ridden as can be--giving the PC's ample room for being hereos. So your hypothesis could very well be correct.
Freudian slip, or intentional spelling error?
Still, it's the funniest thing I've read in a while...
Gaol is the old English way of spelling Jail... And it's even funnier given the context it occurs in. :D
I think you meant "goal".
*goes back to lurking*
Heya,
Freudian slip, or intentional spelling error?
Still, it's the funniest thing I've read in a while...
Gaol is the old English way of spelling Jail... And it's even funnier given the context it occurs in. :D
I think you meant "goal".
*goes back to lurking*
Hardly "lurking." Any Freudian slip that pops up, you are there to grab it. ;)
And does it matter? I'm just a Dookie. My opinion is not.
Yes we do. Although that doesn't necessarily rule out the Swordmage appearing in the PHB2, as well. I can see it getting reprinted there, so that those who want the class, but aren't interested in the Realms, get a little more bang for their buck (by getting the Barbarian, Bard, Druid, Monk, and Sorcerer in addition to the Swordmage).
Although, what about the whole idea that now even setting-specific books are supposed to be useful for everyone? Just wondering.
Why? Just wondering, as I've never seen Tieflings as being overtly psionic, at leats in comparison to most other races.
I don't seem them that way either, although a tiefling character in a popular series (Magadon from the Erevis Cale books) happens to be psionic.
Although, what about the whole idea that now even setting-specific books are supposed to be useful for everyone? Just wondering.
Who knows. IMO, though, there's no way they're going to have their classes split up between various kinds of books. They're probably gonna want people to be able to buy up the various PHB's and get all the available classes. Just a theory, of course. Doesn't make the setting specific books any less useful, as the various Feats, Paragon Paths, etc are supposed to be useable for any other D&D game. But for something as big as a whole other class, that's something you need to have in a book like the PHB2.
Although, what about the whole idea that now even setting-specific books are supposed to be useful for everyone? Just wondering.
Thats why I had had assume there would be no core classes in it
Yes we do. *snip*
But it doesn't rule out the Bard. Just say the SwordMage is a never before seen class.
But it doesn't rule out the Bard. Just say the SwordMage is a never before seen class.
Doesn't rule out the Bard from what?
Doesn't rule out the Bard from what?
From the Bard being in the Player's Guide.
From the Bard being in the Player's Guide.
i would doubt they would put that class in a setting specific book first
I am at least reading the books, and will switch if it's at least as good as now.
And others will.
Well, you know, that must mean you have a job in law enforcement. Only someone in law enforcement would willingly go through that much garbage.
Bah, As if Pc couldn't be Harpers themselfs
No powergamer would choose such an underpowered class, thats why most players didnt play them:P
No powergamer would choose such an underpowered class, thats why most players didnt play them:P
Bards or Harpers?
BTW, you didn't need to take the Harper PrCs to be a Harper.
The Harper Paragorn and Harper Mage were decent PrC's though.
It didn't encourage them either.
The Harper Paragorn and Harper Mage were decent PrC's though.
They were OK. I liked the mage best of the two
(have to reread the Harper Mage, it did have a roguish flair).
Its what I liked about it myself. Seemed to fit
Yeah, I did like the Harper Mage and Harper Priest PrC's from that book quite a bit myself.
It was a good 3E book
No powergamer would choose such an underpowered class, thats why most players didnt play them:P
I was talking abiut the organization that in any event even up the under powered Harper PrC
Although, what about the whole idea that now even setting-specific books are supposed to be useful for everyone? Just wondering.
-I think it's stupid, personally. If I want to play a...'Druid', let's say, I am not going to shell out $34.99 for a sourcebook I'm not actually interested in, just so I can have access to the class.
Well same can be said about Psionics in 3E(and the whole Complete series and the factotum and archivist and dread necro and......)
-With Psionics, not really. The Psionics books introduced a whole new system, along with those classes. Obviously, you aren't going to want to play a Psion if you aren't interested in Psionics, to begin with. I was talking about Campaign Setting books, really, anyway. I'm not going to buy the Grayhawk Campaign Setting book just so I can have access to the official Druid class, you know? Not interested in Grayhawk, $34.99 is what it is...
I hear you....What about bards en FR 4th E? I did not see them in the player's handbook, they will be disappear? xD "plop!!" and there are not more bards in the world :p.
-They are still there. They are simply not going to be highlighted or anything until the Bard class debuts, or will be "temporarily" retconned.
I think that Storm Silverhand, gonna change to... wizard?
-Heh, likely. For the time being, the Bard of Shadowdale will be a Wizard/Fighter with a good singing voice.
-They are still there. They are simply not going to be highlighted or anything until the Bard class debuts, or will be "temporarily" retconned.
Well, we know the bard will be a class at some point. Some even think it will be in the FRCS in August, though I doubt it very much
Well, we know the bard will be a class at some point. Some even think it will be in the FRCS in August, though I doubt it very much
-The FRCG is already going to have the Swordmage, and the Genasi, so I doubt it.
-The FRCG is already going to have the Swordmage, and the Genasi, so I doubt it.
I wonder if there will be a bladesinger paragon path
I wonder if there will be a bladesinger paragon path
-I believe Rich Baker has confirmed that. Don't know if it's going to be in the FRCG, though.
I think they should take a good look at our own bladesinger class (when its finished ;)). And perhaps we can steal some of their ideas.
Now that I like!
I think they should take a good look at our own bladesinger class (when its finished ;)). And perhaps we can steal some of their ideas.
for a base class?:D