http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ex/20080717a
Thanks to the original poster on Candlekeep for providing the above link.
It seems like the perfect place to put in some Abeir ruins and can definitely prove interesting to see how the Yuan-ti have adapted and continue to adapt to their loss. Plus it appears to have had basically no fleshing out, so I can add whatever I like to it.I hate it, boring Port Nyranzaru survived, and Mezro is ruined
You're assuming, of course, that the city of Mezro didn't just decide to hide itself again ... I have a funny feeling that if my players find themselves in that part of the world the FRCS may prove to be not entirely accurate. I don't see the benefit to throwing away the existing Chult ... I'm guessing the spare god made it "necessary".
Other than that, it's certainly better than the 2e entry for Chult, which was one paragraph, and not as good as the 3e entry, which had better hooks in it.
...The pit contains all that remains of the city when it plunged over 200 feet
I would love that they decided to hide
check Ring of Winter for Chult lore
check Ring of Winter for Chult lore
Amazon.co.uk want £15 for a user paperback? Possibly not!
-I was always meh on Chult, so....:D
-This might prove interesting.
-Weird some PDF's I CAN'T download, some I CAN. Silly Gleemax!!! :P
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Strange creatures from across the Trackless Sea colonizing the Mistcliffs
-(Some vestiges of Maztica won't be put down that easily...)
Diseases
-(I always get a kick reading all of those fantasy diseases and poisons and such. And, 'Brain Fluke' is just such a great name.)
Quomec Ziggurat
-(Sounds like an interesting place, and it's nice to see there's more to Maztica than just "We love Ubtao, and such and such and such".)
Dislikes
Chult is a island, as opposed to a peninsula
-(I liked it where it was, and the devastation should have been accompanied by a large tidal wave, which...Well, that didn't happen, so...)
Mezro collapsed and it's population scattered
-(An 'advanced' city of Chultans in the middle of the jungle was refreshing)
Junglemotes
-(The entire 'mote' schpiel, I find, is dumb.)
Insertion of 'Abeir'
-(The entire "'Abeir' is returning!" schpiel, I find, is very dumb).
Chult is it's own continent now ("Continent-spanning overgrowth)
-(I see no reason why it should be it's own continent. Evermeet is a large island, and it is not it's own continent, nor should it be.)
Forsaken Tree
-(Cliche. But, at least it seems to be evil, and not a holy site)
Pyramid of the Moon
-(In a place where Ubtao was virtually the only deity, this seems a bit out of place. The concept is interesting, but it probably belongs somewhere else).
Ruins of Mezro
-(As I said, Mezro was an interesting place. Too bad it's gone.)
I actually like the new map of Chult much more than the old one.
Amazon.co.uk want £15 for a user paperback? Possibly not!
here's an excerpt then
"Amazing?" Rayburton smiled and nodded, making the silver triangle hanging from his right earlobe bob up and down. "Mezro is that and more. It didn't take me long to discover how astounding this place is. Once I did, I couldn't bring myself to leave."
There is no exaggeration in the bold claim that Ubtao founded Mezro. The great god of the Tabaxi built the core of the city himself, the temple and amphitheater rising first from the chaos of the jungle. Mezro was to be the place where all the people of Chult could learn how to pass through the maze of life, how best to reach the heart of all and discover the true nature of the world. It became that. Yet Mezro also became a place where thieves and charlatans preyed upon pilgrims, where men and women and children came to beg Ubtao's help with the most insignificant of problems.
Ubtao created the barae to help him deal with those distractions, to resolve the petty demands of the throng. The seven barae were chosen from the citizens of Mezro and gifted with special powers. Over time, the barae became the rulers and defenders of the city, as well, but that was after Ubtao left the Tabaxi to find their own way in the world.
For it is also true the Tabaxi tried to make Ubtao a household god, a god who had to prove his worth by healing old men of aching joints, by settling arguments over the ownership of goats, by proving each and every day that his power could be used to make life easy. But Ubtao, who created the labyrinth that is this earthly world, made the Tabaxi to live there. He stayed in Mezro to teach them how to best pass through the maze, but he would not destroy the everyday trials that were its walls.
Finally there came a day when Ubtao said, "If the people wish to cry and complain rather than listen to my wisdom, then so be it, I will leave them to wander the halls of life without my guidance." Then he returned to his home in the sky and refused to speak to his people again while they were mortal.
And that is why a Tabaxi must die before he may meet his maker.
The exceptions to this rule are the barae. These seven, the mighty paladins of Ubtao, live forever unless they are murdered or lose their life on the battlefield. Their wisdom and faith in Ubtao shield them from old age and sickness. In return, they must protect Ubtao's fair city of Mezro from all harm. If a bara is killed, another must take his place within one day. That is the only time a mortal may enter the barado, in the great Temple of Ubtao itself. In the barado, the supplicants gather so Ubtao can choose his new paladin. The one the god chooses is granted some magnificent power. Ras Nsi, one of the first seven raised up by Ubtao, was given the power to muster the dead. Mainu, she of the golden eyes, was granted control over the waters in the Olung River, which flows through the city to this day.
When I became a bara, on that terrible day when three of the paladins were slain in defense of Mezro, I was given the power to remember everything I see or hear. "These memories are safe from time, never to be like the banks that hold a fast-flowing river, worn away more and more with each passing year. What I know and what I learn remain with me always, as clear and sharp as the eyes of a jungle cat on the hunt.
It is thus I remember the coming of Dhalmass Rayburton, a lord of the distant land of Cormyr, as if it were yesterday. In truth, he arrived six hundred years ago. He was like all the other explorers who had come to Ubtao's jungle, certain we were savages who had somehow wrested our great library and our fine buildings from some more civilized nation. Unlike the others, he soon saw how blind he was to the accomplishments of other peoples. And when he accepted the truth of the matter, he found he had no desire to return to Cormyr. Within ten years of becoming a citizen of Mezro, Rayburton placed himself in Ubtao's hands and asked to be made a bara. He was chosen.
And that is how Dhalmass Rayburton became the first paladin of Ubtao not born of the Tabaxi....
it's too close to Calimshan, Calishates would have done something with it
-Interesting point. Calashites are very...Well, they take advantage of every possible advantage life life hands them. I can attest to this.
-Well minus the Giants. :P
-I thought the part on the Jungle was really cheesy.
-I mean come on Flesh eating plants, with Fanged and Taloned Monsters underneath. Hey then eat the Monsters not the PC's. :embarrass
-Good Grief! :P
-Is there a thread about this at Candlekeep?
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-I mean come on Flesh eating plants, with Fanged and Taloned Monsters underneath. Hey then eat the Monsters not the PC's.
To be fair, that was a comment on the tavern tales, not on the actual nature of the jungle. This is less than helpful if you were looking for guidance on what the jungle was actually like ...
To be fair, that was a comment on the tavern tales, not on the actual nature of the jungle. This is less than helpful if you were looking for guidance on what the jungle was actually like ...
-I know. ;)
-I was being sarcastic, ok. :P
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-I was being sarcastic, ok.
I guess I've become accustomed to the idea that the default reaction to anything 4e around here is negative ...
-Interesting point. Calashites are very...Well, they take advantage of every possible advantage life life hands them. I can attest to this.
yea, they'd exploit it to the fullest, Rundeen and others
-I mean come on Flesh eating plants, with Fanged and Taloned Monsters underneath. Hey then eat the Monsters not the PC's. :embarrass
-Hey, it's always been like that, though.
yea, they'd exploit it to the fullest, Rundeen and others
-Yet again, Calimshan gets ignored. Poor, poor Calimshan...Being in a desert, a close source of lumber, fruits, vegetables, and all of that would be a very big "target".
Quomec Ziggurat
-(Sounds like an interesting place, and it's nice to see there's more to Maztica than just "We love Ubtao, and such and such and such".)
I'm going to read this article right now, but in the meantime I would just like to point out that Ubtao was NEVER worshipped in Maztica. :P
He may had a following in Katashaka, since that is where the human Tabxi were from...
You're assuming, of course, that the city of Mezro didn't just decide to hide itself again ...
As Quale has pointed out, there is little about assuming it's gone (that's okay though, because I liked Mezro less then I liked Maztica), and given that the map includes the RUINS of Mezro, it's kinda hard to overlook. ;)
given that the map includes the RUINS of Mezro, it's kinda hard to overlook. ;)
It's a ruse, I tell you.
I'm going to read this article right now, but in the meantime I would just like to point out that Ubtao was NEVER worshipped in Maztica. :P
-Whoops. Meant Chult. Chult is the new Maztica, seemingly, being a jungle-covered island continent and all.
It's a ruse, I tell you.
-The article mentions how the people of Mezro have been scattered, the city was destroyed, and where the city was now exists a pit. Being as that the viewpoint is again in the omniscient third, the evidence is really piling up against your claim. :P
-Whoops. Meant Chult. Chult is the new Maztica, seemingly, being a jungle-covered island continent and all.
I thought that was already called 'Xendrik'.
;) :P
More seriously, since I have a copy of "The Jungles of Chult" that I may want to use - I've always wanted to send PCs there for some reason - I may very well use this non-canon adjustment to the history here.
I thought that was already called 'Xendrik'.
;) :P
-It's Abeir-Toril's new Maztica.
I thought that was already called 'Xendrik'.
;) :P
Not all of Xendrick is covered in Jungle though. It has a desert region and part of the continent goes so far to the south that it is like Antartica.
I am of course not shure that it actually is not a cut from the Faerun map, but it looks like it was made in the computer, and well Chult seems to have a rather edged coastline ....
More seriously, since I have a copy of "The Jungles of Chult" that I may want to use - I've always wanted to send PCs there for some reason - I may very well use this non-canon adjustment to the history here.
What edition are you using?
Are you saying you are playing in the 4e setting, but will use the Mezro material from the 3e source?
There is nothing more fun than kicking around a bunch of "savages" while telling them that Helm's return is eminent.
Oh, and ignore the crap about floating land from Abeir and stuff. Over all it is enough to work with and it only needs a few minor changes.
I guess I've become accustomed to the idea that the default reaction to anything 4e around here is negative ...
-I am negative in a sarcastic sense. :D Kinda numb now with what all has happened.
I Keep wondering what new change is going to be revealed to us. :embarrass Some hot-shot designer decided to do a Frankenstein Monster to the beloved Realms. -On a happier note, I could see Calimshan Expanding into Chult for Resources. That would bring them into DIRECT conflict with Amn and Baldurs Gate. Maybe the Calishites bank roll the Baldurs Gate Colony to keep Amn's Greedy little concerns in check. Which escalates into open WARFARE between them! :D Have any potential? ;)
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I personally like what they have done to Chult. I broke it off the main continent in my campaign years ago, and suggested that WotC do the same way back in sept-Oct of last year, after the 4e announcment.
Not that they listened to me - it probably occurred to them as well that it didn't quite 'fit' the rest of the Realms mainland. I always felt it would do better as an Island of Dread/Hepmonland/Xendrik style mini-campaign area.
Are you saying you are playing in the 4e setting, but will use the Mezro material from the 3e source?
The 2e source. Yup, cheerfully.
The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of a re-hidden Mezro working against the threat of Amnian and Calishite domination of Chult behind the scenes.
I personally like what they have done to Chult. I broke it off the main continent in my campign years ago, and suggested that WotC do the same way back in sept-Oct of last year, after the 4e announcment.
I don't like that, an island like that is cliche, it's similar to Xendrik, you have a starting point, a port-city, and nothing else unique and interesting, they had to include three pyramid/ziggurat sites?!
I liked the way it was before, and it was like an island with impassable Black and Mhair Jungles
the destruction of Mezro bothers me even more than Mystra's
I disagree that kicking Chultans around like bunch of savages is fun, I always played it as a dark and mysterious place, so alien to Calishite or Amnite invaders that they don't stand a chance there, based heavily on spirituality and shamanism, having a different kind of Faerie/Spiritworld where Mezro can become coterminous if needed
I'm picturing a bunch of out-croppings along the interior wall of the volcano with large bonfires set to constanly burn on them.
Then there can be a few secret tunnels leading to the outside, disgised as Pterradon nests. In fact, from a distance outsiders would think the the place very forboding, with smoking pouring from the summit and pteradactyls circling the peak... and what outsiders wouldn't know from that distance is that those creatures have riders...
The Mezronites have learned to domesticate the wild pterradons of Chult, and use them to fight off invasions of Pterafolk. :D
Yeah, I know... lifted from Conan's Kushites... but it's still cool. ;)
-Calimshan should have already invaded and colonized, and all of that good stuff. Remember, this was 100 years ago, about, that Chult became and island and yada yada yada.
Ah-ha! Proof that my theory is correct and Mezro is working against them! ;)
-Calimshan should have already invaded and colonized, and all of that good stuff. Remember, this was 100 years ago, about, that Chult became and island and yada yada yada.
-Spoilsport! :P
-Maybe Calimshan was under going a major upheaval at that time.
-Yeah lets blame the spellplague and the 'Returned of Abeir'.
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Ah-ha! Proof that my theory is correct and Mezro is working against them! ;)
-I don't exactly follow.
-Spoilsport! :P
-No, just pointing out the 'obvious'.
-Maybe Calimshan was under going a major upheaval at that time.
-Probably.
-Yeah lets blame the spellplague and the 'Returned of Abeir'.
-Good idea.
Is there any cannon reason behind the triangle tattoo that the zombies have on their heads?
According to the "Jungles of Chult" (FRM1), anyone who broke the law in Mezro was immediately branded with a blue triangle and exiled.
-Calimshan should have already invaded and colonized, and all of that good stuff. Remember, this was 100 years ago, about, that Chult became and island and yada yada yada.
As some one else pointed out, at least half of those 100 years was spent clawing their way out of the dark hell left by the Spellplague. We have little to no idea what happened to them.
But it hardly matters, I doubt we'll get more information than that in the FRCS. This means that we can slap pretty much anything we want there. If you want Chult to be fully colonized and under the rule of Calimshan - then that shouldn't pose a problem.
Like Markus, I think it works better as an island. I also like it's new placement.
If I play in 4E I will likely steal a lot of ideas from the Maztica Campaign Setting, old Chult material and what not, put it in a pot, stir it around and see what I come up with. I'd also likely remove Amn and replace them with Calimshan if it makes sense after I learn more about them. I'd then put Amn in Baldur's Gate's role.
I really don't think it's been mentioned elsewhere, but they've basically turned Chult into Maztica and did a bit of Realmsifying.
Gimmie more.
As some one else pointed out, at least half of those 100 years was spent clawing their way out of the dark hell left by the Spellplague. We have little to no idea what happened to them.
-We know that the Spellplague "passed by" centers of great magical concentration. Why, I don't know, and I don't think that makes sense, but whatever. Calimshan (especially it's capital, Calimport) was a center of great magical concentration. Thus, we should assume that the Spellplague "passed by" Calimshan, or at least her nerve center, Calimport.
But it hardly matters, I doubt we'll get more information than that in the FRCS. This means that we can slap pretty much anything we want there. If you want Chult to be fully colonized and under the rule of Calimshan - then that shouldn't pose a problem.
-That's not the point. I don't care about homebrew, and what someone does on their own with it. I'm talking canon.
-As a side note, the article did look like it was scanned directly out of the FRCG.
I really don't think it's been mentioned elsewhere, but they've basically turned Chult into Maztica and did a bit of Realmsifying.
Yup - and since I'm a former GH player, I'm used to Hepmonland. :P
Yup - and since I'm a former GH player, I'm used to Hepmonland. :P
-Whenever someone types that, I always see 'Hemp Land', and the obvious connotations that brings with it.
Yes, Hepmonland was a much better version of Central America then Maztica was, because it never really tried to be. It was just "the Jungle next door" if DM's wanted to use for any sort of 'lost world' type adventuring. It was just an extremely large island (a sub-continent, really) just south of the main campaign area, where all the 'savage jungle' stuff was lumped.
Yes, Hepmonland was a much better version of Central America then Maztica was, because it never really tried to be.
-That was Maztica's...well, rather, Maztica's designers' downfall. That type of setting is going to draw a limited audience to begin with, and then by doing what they did to Maztica, they limited the limited audience even more.
I won't get into Maztica again - whats done is done, and I'm hoping that they'll at least replace it with something cool (not 'kewl').
I won't get into Maztica again - whats done is done, and I'm hoping that they'll at least replace it with something cool (not 'kewl').
-It's being replaced with a slice of 'Abeir'.
Maybe not born from Dragons per-say, but maybe some hybrid lizard / humanoid race. As opposed to, you know, the snake / humanoid race that is the Yuan-ti. (But lets face it, the Yuan-ti are infinitely better.)
-As a side note, the article did look like it was scanned directly out of the FRCG.
-Yeah its from chapter 6 in the FRCG.
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"Strange, savage behemoths now prowl the shadowed jungles and wandering motes alike."
Dinosaurs are now called behemoths in 4e - how is that new for Chult?
How is Port Nyranzaru even a port? (unless the map is innacurate)
Spellscarred Samarach? I thought the paragraph immediately before that one stated Samarach had sunk? And yet, its on the map. Also... MORE spellscarred lands?!
And speaking of an excerpt disagreeing with itself, it also says Serpentes fell, and then goes on to say that it's survivors are still around. If it sank or blew up, how are there surviviors, and if parts of it didn't do either of those things, then why didn't the 'snake people' just stay in the surviving portions of their Kingdom? You can't have it both ways.... the land doesn't just 'go away' and leave all the intelligent species floating in the air.
And as far as the 2e supplement was concerned, there was only one human tribe left - so who were all these 'other tribes' that were killed off by the 'new predators'? Were they non-human savages, like the Batiri?
And lastly, I find this bit intersting -
"Some are populated with creatures alien and awful in aspect—entities not native to Chult, or at least absent since before the time Abeir and Toril went their separate ways."
Hmmmm.. it sounds like a divorce.
It also sounds as if they were once 'one', and are now 'two', which makes me think some of my earlier speculations regarding the Sundering may just have more to it.
Not different worlds... just divergent paths...
One more thing - is that a forest I see in the Calimshan desert?
The adventuring party is considered a sacrifice and thrown into the depths. Miraculously, after tumbling and scraping down countless vines, they survive. It dawns upon them that they have been thrown into the ruins of Mezro, the putrid remains of a once-great holy city. There is a shuffle behind them. Then, another to the side. As the sickening smell fills their nostrils, they realize, "Ghouls..."
And, go.
The Mezro Liches sound cool, but I really hate the sudden 'Aztec' tone of Chult. Did the designers figure out we already have Katashaka for FR's 'Africa', and they decided to shunt EVERYTHING Central American into Chult?
More 'lost civilizations' that didn't appear in any previous lore... despite an entire sourcebook about the place.
Just... weird.
After the latest errata of the DMG; the disease mentioned is quite a bit out of whack. It should probably have DC's which are 5 lower, to put it at par with Cackle Fever, which also happens to be a level 12 disease.
Yeah I'm ignoring that latest errata until either:
1) Everything is switched to the new DCs (because currently very little is) OR
2) I'm shown by practical experience in my games that the DCs are too hard.
-Yeah its from chapter 6 in the FRCG.
-Yeah, it seems all of the new preview articles are direct scans from the book.
"Strange, savage behemoths now prowl the shadowed jungles and wandering motes alike."
Dinosaurs are now called behemoths in 4e - how is that new for Chult?
-Hasn't this been discussed? The term in the Monster Manual was changed from 'Dinosaur' to 'Behemoth'. So, all 'Dinosaurs/Thunder Beasts' are not 'Behemoths'. A retcon of the name, that's all. I still like 'Thunder Beast' the best, but...
One more thing - is that a forest I see in the Calimshan desert?
-Calimshan is a big place. It's not all desert, nor was it ever all desert. There's the marshes and forests of Volothamp, for example.
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-Hasn't this been discussed? The term in the Monster Manual was changed from 'Dinosaur' to 'Behemoth'. So, all 'Dinosaurs/Thunder Beasts' are not 'Behemoths'. A retcon of the name, that's all. I still like 'Thunder Beast' the best, but...
You missed my point.
They are saying 'Behemoths' are NEW to Chult, but thats pure BS - Dinosaurs were always there, they just changed the name and are trying to pull a fast one here.
-Calimshan is a big place. It's not all desert, nor was it ever all desert. There's the marshes and forests of Volothamp, for example.
Yes, yes... I know...
Someone I know VERY well did a map of the place. ;)
There just shouldn't be any forest THERE (where it appears there is one now).
Methinks Calim and Memnon have burst their bonds.
Which makes sense, given some of the final entries in GHotR concerning a cult of Memnon.
And in case any of the designers are reading this - YES, I NEVER miss a thing.
You missed my point.
They are saying 'Behemoths' are NEW to Chult, but thats pure BS - Dinosaurs were always there, they just changed the name and are trying to pull a fast one here.
You know, to have missed that, whoever wrote that Chult entry would have had to have completely ignored or missed the entire front cover of the The Jungles Of Chult 2e sourcebook. Which means that they never even looked at the book, let alone read it, and probably only skimmed the FRCS 3e entry (which briefly mentions dinosaurs). Or has no idea what a Behemoth is and was told to slap them in.
MarkusTay63
Methinks Calim and Memnon have burst their bonds.
Which makes sense, given some of the final entries in GHotR concerning a cult of Memnon.
I played the LFR preview adventure "Death in the Skyfire Wastes" at Origins this year. At the beginning of the adventure they gave a bit of background, the adventure took place in Calimshan. The party all lived in a city whose name I can't recall, but it was mentioned that it was the only free city in the area, the rest of Calimshan was controlled by Memnon.
You missed my point.
They are saying 'Behemoths' are NEW to Chult, but thats pure BS - Dinosaurs were always there, they just changed the name and are trying to pull a fast one here.
-Oh, oh, oh.
There just shouldn't be any forest THERE (where it appears there is one now).
-Just like the process of desertification happens, so too (I believe) does dedesertification. And, tangible magic only makes it easier.
Methinks Calim and Memnon have burst their bonds.
-I certainly hope not.
...but it was mentioned that it was the only free city in the area, the rest of Calimshan was controlled by Memnon.
-...Crap.
[INDENT]Junglemotes are common
in Chult. Some are populated with creatures alien
and awful in aspect—entities not native to Chult, or
at least absent since before the time Abeir and Toril
went their separate ways.
[/INDENT]
Why did they get rid of the Yuan-Ti? Why destroy Mezro?
[INDENT]In the Year of Blue Fire, the
Chultan jungle was interpenetrated by pockets of
Abeiran landscape that now lie scattered in the skies
and the forests. Strange, savage behemoths now
prowl the shadowed jungles and wandering motes
alike.[/INDENT]
This seems an awful lot like Warcraft's region of "Nagrand".
Junglemotes, seriously?
-Xmotes are everywhere.
-Xmotes are everywhere.
That makes me sad.
I hate it...Mezro is ruined
Pretty much my reaction as well.:P
Sorry guys, but this preview just didn't inspire any positive feelings in me. Well, actually I kind of liked that Selune pyramid thing, but I don't need to implement the Spellplague to use that hook.
First they axed all of the powerful female characters, and now they get rid of the civilized black society and turn them all into savage cannibals.
It feels like 1950 all over again.
and Turmish probably suffered the same fate
remember those ''Black people in the Realms'' threads, what are we going to say now when someone asks
Oh boy, I love those threads, can't wait for someone to start a new one.
I played the LFR preview adventure "Death in the Skyfire Wastes" at Origins this year. At the beginning of the adventure they gave a bit of background, the adventure took place in Calimshan. The party all lived in a city whose name I can't recall, but it was mentioned that it was the only free city in the area, the rest of Calimshan was controlled by Memnon.
If the bonds of Memnon and Calim where to be broken, there wouldn't be a desert anymore since it was created when both where emprisoned.
1) i like the idea of a Chult Island
2) I too believe Calimshan would have "colonized" the place before Amn (but you know Amn is so popular... everything will be Amn, Baldurs Gate, Neverwinter, Waterdeep !) I wouln't be suprised that waterdeep has established a colony on Evermeet ! :P
3) as said before... Xmotes thing is crap.
4) Looks like Isle of Dread (after having seen the popularity of the Dungeon Adventure Path by Eric Mona (Paizo))
5) no more dinosaurs would be sad. Its the only True place where you could put a Tyrannausorus against your PCs ! And re-create a Jurassic Park adventure !!
6) True that Calimshan is really nearer thant it use to be... take a look in the FR Atlas ! But after what they've done to the Thunder Peaks... no surprise !
I played the LFR preview adventure "Death in the Skyfire Wastes" at Origins this year. At the beginning of the adventure they gave a bit of background, the adventure took place in Calimshan. The party all lived in a city whose name I can't recall, but it was mentioned that it was the only free city in the area, the rest of Calimshan was controlled by Memnon.
I must have missed this the last time through - thanks for the info.
Looks like we have found our Fire Genasi kingdom, folks. ;)
If the bonds of Memnon and Calim where to be broken, there wouldn't be a desert anymore since it was created when both where emprisoned.
It'll stay a desert if WotC wants it to.
I'm wondering about the far North now - the glaciers have all been receeding for quite some time now (since the very start of 1e FR, when TSR melted a big chunk of the Great Glacier to shoe-horn in Vassa and Damara). Going by whats happening to the RW, all that melting and ice-removal should be excellerating Global Warming on Toril, coupled with the vast amounts of water vapor and carbon dumped into the upper atmosphere by explosions and Tidal waves.
I'm thinking Faerûn will now truly be a 'Hot Bed' of activity. ;)
Chult, the final frontier...
BTW, now that DeviantART is FINALLY back up, I can show you guys what a map of Chult SHOULD look like -
Chult, the final frontier...
You don't like Chult, but you made a map of it. Nice.
It was sorta of a 'fond farewell', for friends yet unmet.
I just added the Quomec site to it yesterday, though, from the new map.
Funny - I just noticed I never posted the Lapaliya one, and with the Elfharrow excerpt up, it would be fitting to 'say goodbye' to it as well.
I liked their "paladins" or whatever they were, maybe a type of Chosen (even though I dislike Chosen). Were they called Bara?
The Ring of Winter is a fine book (IMO) if you wish to read up on Mezro, canibal goblins, behemoths (aKa dinos) and just about anything else that will give you a "feel" for Chult.
I know its cliche', but so is the whole damn place now, so I might as well run with it. ;)
Besides, I'm picturing those 'tribal Liches' looking something like the Undying from Eberron, and that just puts my imagination into 'over-active' mode.
That big ol' hole in the ground makes for a really nice The Descent type movie-plot adventure.
As long as we are going for Dinosaurs and Cliche's, how about a REAL retro feel and re-introduce Isle of the Ape into 4e?
I'm wanting to save some honey from a bunch of crazy goblin cannibals trying to feed her to a big Monkey.
I have Kakatal instead of Kossuth
If I send my players to Chult or a Chult-esque place they must go to a temple overrun by trained white/albino killer apes like Congo.
Then fight a Giant river snake like in Anaconda? Or, you could have them rob a temple for it's precious golden idol then have a giant rolling ball chase........wait a sec....i think i've seen this before
:PBTW, I thought the excerpt was pretty good but the map............ well I just think MarkusTay could make a better one. Any chance of that happening chief?
I liked their "paladins" or whatever they were, maybe a type of Chosen (even though I dislike Chosen). Were they called Bara?
Yes, Bara/Barae.
I thought the pyramids in the article were kinda neat. That's something you can use pretty much anywhere.
Trained Killer Monkeys, Giant Andacondas, Giant Volcanoes as the home of the Flesh eating whatever. Your all set! :D 18DELTA
BTW, I thought the excerpt was pretty good but the map............ well I just think MarkusTay could make a better one. Any chance of that happening chief?
I thought I posted the link already - Chult Map.
Unless you meant you wanted me to 'break it off, and 4e-erize it, which I can easily do, if enough folks are interested?
-Please?
18DELTA :D
I thought I posted the link already - Chult Map.
Unless you meant you wanted me to 'break it off, and 4e-erize it, which I can easily do, if enough folks are interested?
I prefer the old Chult, but go ahead and make what maps you want.
Oh boy, I love those threads, can't wait for someone to start a new one.
-Don't we all...
Yes, Bara/Barae.
I thought the pyramids in the article were kinda neat. That's something you can use pretty much anywhere.
At the very least if people can snag some ideas for other settings from these articles I figure. There will be tons of monster/threats sta blocks that can be used in any setting. The pyramids and other locales from articles and the main FR books will probably give me some ideas for my game I am about to start that is in another different setting.
At the very least if people can snag some ideas for other settings from these articles I figure. There will be tons of monster/threats sta blocks that can be used in any setting. The pyramids and other locales from articles and the main FR books will probably give me some ideas for my game I am about to start that is in another different setting.
Agreed, on all points.
This isn't so much a 'setting' as it is a book of suggestions. Strange, because that means the setting books (and I'm including next year's Eberron in this) have become Splatbooks, in a way.
Thats a great way to look at it, and helps to mollify some of the anti-FR vibe going around.
So 3e FR is still alive and well, and the 4e FRCG is just a big book of ideas you can use if you want to.
I like it.
-I'd rather not do anything than lift something straight from another book and plop it in my own setting, but...
Canon is what you make of it. ;)
Its always been that way, true, but now they've made it easier for everyone to wrap their minds around.
-No they haven't. How so? I mean, if anything, they're "forcing the hand", by leaving so much "blank" that people have no choice but to diverge from canon, since there isn't any canon.
-No they haven't. How so? I mean, if anything, they're "forcing the hand", by leaving so much "blank" that people have no choice but to diverge from canon, since there isn't any canon.
You say that like its a bad thing.
As a fan, I too am horrified by what they have done to the story that was FR.
As a gamer, I embrace all the holes left for me to fill in.
Its all a matter of perspective - since he is a fan of the lore more then the game, of course he is going to feel the way he does.
Fans of D&D will love it, while fans of FR won't - it's as simple as that. he is perfectly justified to feel the way he does.
-No they haven't. How so? I mean, if anything, they're "forcing the hand", by leaving so much "blank" that people have no choice but to diverge from canon, since there isn't any canon.
True, we are forced to "fend for ourselves" now, but i did that for years before finding the wonder that is FR, and now I am ready to re-embrace my inner game designer.
After all, even you gotta admit anything WE come up with HAS TO be better then what they've been dishing out. ;)
maybe they just realized they aren't very good at there jobs, so they've given the contols back over to us. :P
He's an FR fan - not a gamer. He plays D&D, but not in FR (except for that recent game he became part of, if its still going on).
It is still going on.
Seems a mite silly to be the forum leader then in an FR subforum on the Dungeons and Dragons forum.
It actually has much more to do with participation level. I use to be a mod (briefly) at Gamewinners, and several of the forums I was in charge of were for games I never played.
Sure he's justified, he could be justified in thinking WotC should have printed it in Latin. Doesn't stop it from being ridiculous for someone to expect WotC to cater to some type of fan that doesn't actually want to play in the Forgotten Realms D&D setting though, and mostly doesn't.
EXCEPT that the novels make WotC FAR more money then the game, and at least half of all FR fans DON'T play D&D.
If you don't like it, why have you bothered buying their products? Oh wait, your the guy whose planning on playing in the 4th edition Forgotten Realms despite hating both the new FR and the 4th edition rules. Nevermind.
I adopted the 2e rules the day they came out, and used them right up until the day the 3e rules came out - and I absolutelty HATED them the entire time. Whoever came-up with that counter-productive THACO system must have failed basic math - it was the MOST un-intuitive thing I've ever come across.
But enough history...
I also played in a Dragonlance game (once), even though I greatly disliked the setting - everyone else that I was friends with was playing it, so I either got new friends or played what everyone else was playing.
I may be a bit crazy at times, but at heart I'm a pragmatist - I'm going to go with the majority and do what everyone else is doing. Rather then try to go against the current. A bunch of protesting hippies didn't end the Vietnam war - politicians finally did - all the hippies did was shout from their soapboxes, get stoned, and listen to Rock Music.
Talk is cheap - if you want to change things you have to jump in and get your hands dirty.
And sometimes you have to do that from 'the inside'. ;)
You say that like its a bad thing.
-Yes, yes it is. A very, horribly bad thing. Like Frankenstein bad. Like bloody murder bad. Like discontinuing the camaro bad.
True, we are forced to "fend for ourselves" now, but i did that for years before finding the wonder that is FR, and now I am ready to re-embrace my inner game designer.
-And I don't think that those who be were feeling altruistic, suddenly, if you know what I mean.
After all, even you gotta admit anything WE come up with HAS TO be better then what they've been dishing out. ;)
-Depends. I've met people who I don't think could have designed their way out of a paper bag.
-And I don't think that those who be were feeling altruistic, suddenly, if you know what I mean.
Of course they didn't - I'm not stupid, ya' know. ;)
I've just decided to see the "glass half-full".
-Depends. I've met people who I don't think could have designed their way out of a paper bag.
I thought I told you not to bring up that guy who wanted stats for Ao so he could kill him. :P
Yes - some people have some pretty silly notions about FR, but I would say 99% of the 'alternate reality' fluff fans have came-up with to explain the 4e changes pretty much blew-away what the designers did.
We DID have an edge though - we understood FR and knew the lore. :D
We DID have an edge though - we understood FR and knew the lore. :D
-Always, you know, a good thing to know about when designing Forgotten Realms things. Comes in handy.
It actually has much more to do with participation level.
In that case I'm surprised we haven't got a troll in charge. They can be the most active.
EXCEPT that the novels make WotC FAR more money then the game, and at least half of all FR fans DON'T play D&D.
Well I'm glad they're not catering to the fans that don't play FR in the FRCS. As I said, it would be extremely silly to. They can do whatever they want with the novels.
I adopted the 2e rules the day they came out, and used them right up until the day the 3e rules came out - and I absolutelty HATED them the entire time. Whoever came-up with that counter-productive THACO system must have failed basic math - it was the MOST un-intuitive thing I've ever come across.
Funnily enough I'd actually pay attention to something I enjoyed. Instead of playing systems I clearly hate, I'd look for one I liked. But if you enjoy playing things you absolutely hate, more power to you.
-Yes, yes it is. A very, horribly bad thing. Like Frankenstein bad. Like bloody murder bad. Like discontinuing the camaro bad.
As someone who will actually use the FRCS to play FR games, I'm unmoved by this argument.
-I was thinking that a Lost type game would be fun.
-Having fun is what the games about regardless edition. :P
18DELTA :D
Bel
-One could use it to run Savage Tide.
-Now the Lost angle is you got Mercenaries from Amn trying to get you. Its actually a 'secret base' for the Rundeen. Summer getaway for the Twisted Rune.
18DELTA ;)
-And Pirate Coves.
18DELTA :D
-Yeah turn it into The Isle of Dread.
-One could use it to run Savage Tide.
Which is why I placed Kuluth-Mar on both the 3e and 4e versions of the map, taken from the official conversion for the Realms. ;)
PS - I take great pleasure in editting out your smilies. :P
Which is why I placed Kuluth-Mar on both the 3e and 4e versions of the map, taken from the official conversion for the Realms. ;)
PS - I take great pleasure in editting out your smilies. :P
-Ha! Edit this then. :P
:invasion: :invasion: :invasion: :invasion: :invasion: :invasion: :invasion: :invasion: 18DELTA :P
-Let me guess Paizo right? :D
18DELTA
-Lets not forget the Iron Throne!
-And Pirate Coves.
18DELTA :D
-Originally, I was just thinking that the new Chult is the new Maztica, that was so desperately swept under the rug. I mean, jungles, savages, steppe pyramids...
I prefer it this way, and if you go back about 6 months in the Designer thread, you can clearly see where I recommended this (the seperation into an island) to Rich - which of course makes it like my own version of FR. :D
It was pretty badly ignored throughout 3e, and with 4e's 'minimalist' approach to lore, now we can fix it up and make it campaign-worthy.
-Don't chastise me ok? :P
18DELTA ;)
Then we have the Amnians setting up a Maztica-esque colonial grip there as well as a possible new interest by the Calishites, and there we can see some political intrigue brewing.
Finally of course are the new elements such as the mysterious creatures from across the sea (no doubt from what was once Maztica) and the Spellscarred, which in Chult don't seem to dislodge the old threats from the region yet just add more factors in the complex mystery that is Chult. The locales are nice as well and overall I would say this is the best excerpt so far as they managed to preserve much of Pre-SP Chult while adding new elements in that improve the region.
Chult is fun if you want to have a jungle adventure with albino apes, snakemen, canibal goblins (and humans) and big honking behemoths (dinos).
I may change the albino apes to be those ape demons though. Their name is Bag???? I forget. ;)
Like I said somewhere just because old Mezro is i nruins does not mean there isn't a new Mezro even more protected and mysterious than the last one.
Chult is fun if you want to have a jungle adventure with albino apes, snakemen, canibal goblins (and humans) and big honking behemoths (dinos).
I may change the albino apes to be those ape demons though. Their name is Bag???? I forget. ;)
Bar-Iguras I think.
Yeah totally agree with you. For all we know there may be an entire aberration city from Abeir hidden deep within the ruins of old Mezro. What I don't know is if the Set/Sseth issue is still going on or are they just going to drop Zehir into the setting for the Yuan-Ti.
They plan on saying that many of the gods in 1e/2e/3e were really others all along, and I made a comment elsewhere about Mask walking in 'Shar's shadow'.
And then I got to thinking - does Shar even HAVE a shadow?
If anything, Shar IS the shadow! She would be Selune's Shadow - I was looking in the FRCS yesterday for something and noticed that pic of Shar and Selune in 'battle' (although it doesn't really look like much fighting is going on) on page 249, and I started to muse then how one looks like the 'negative' image of the other.
So wouldn't it be a kick in the head if Ubtao turned out to be Selune, and Shar turned out to be Eshodow?
The lore actual works, for the most part - it could just be how the Tabaxi (Chultans) interpretted these two beings and the War of Light and Darkness!
As for Sseth - well, he was starting to get rolled into Set in 3e anyway, so by 4e I would assume thats a done deal. Set could be the evil power that will 'rise up at the end of the world', and Selune - who considers herself the protector of Chautea (Toril) would be on the alert for such a thing.
Now it would be an even be bigger kick-in-the-head if the Night Serpent (who happens to be an aspect of Set now) rose up, but Selune was busy elsewhwere (probably trying to hold back the waves of Raw {Cerulean} Magic washing over Toril), and it was TYR who stepped in...
and was destroyed by Set!
Now we have come full circle - the Norse had it a bit wrong; It was Tyr, NOT Thor who was killed during Ragnarok (Spellplague/Deicides) by the World Serpent.
Well, Chult was always meant to be a more savage locale and the fact that it is its own continent now add to its mystique and gives it a sort of Lost World feel which I enjoy. The good things are that old powers like the Yuan-Ti (and Sarrukh of course) and tribesmen are still there, abeit disorganized and sulking, and the Peaks of Flame (subsequently Dendar) aren't going anywhere.
-If Ubtao makes it into 4e. Being such a minor deity and all, don't know. If he doesn't, though, that doesn't make Dendar's outlook look too good, being that she's supposed to fight Ubtao at the end of the world.
So wouldn't it be a kick in the head if Ubtao turned out to be Selune, and Shar turned out to be Eshodow?
-Shar has previously attempted to absorb Eshodow. I don't recall if she was successful or not.
-If Ubtao makes it into 4e. Being such a minor deity and all, don't know. If he doesn't, though, that doesn't make Dendar's outlook look too good, being that she's supposed to fight Ubtao at the end of the world.
.
Yeah, I would probably go along with what MT put out there, that they still exist, but as aspects of Selune and Set respectively (though Set might just end up an aspect of Shar).
Either that or they end up as exarchs.
I gave it more thought, and I'm seeing Set/Zehir as an Elder Evil, and BOTH Dender the Night serpent (world serpent) and Kezef being aspects of him/it. Kezef's a bit of a stretch, but Set is often shown with a Jackal's head, which gives him a very loose connection to canines.
Now, if Dender/Sseth were aspects of the Serpent Archtype in FR, and Earth's aspect of the Archtype - Set - was brought in by the Mulhorandi, on some cosmic level it would make sense for the aspects to want to re-merge (so as to be only one Archtype per world). I perceive Archtypes to be an overgroup that the Elder Evils belong to, and they have at last one aspect on every world. On the other hand, certain gods like Lolth and Corellon are also Archtypes that have a presence on various worlds.
Perhaps I can reconcile my Archtype concept into the 4e's Primordial one? But then Corellon becomes a Primordial...
Which does have some merit...
Ergo, Toril's Corellon would be seperate from Oerth's Corellon, but both would be an aspect of the Archtype/Primordial god that is omni-present throughout the universe.
I've come a bit far from Chult now... :embarrass
Anyhow, what I wanted to get at is that if Kezef is an aspect (avatar) of Set, and Kezef is just FR's name for Fenris, then it makes PERFECT sense that Fenris kills Tyr. :D
I was thinking similarly except I would put Kezef and Dendar as exarchs of Set rather than aspects, since Set himself is already an aspect of Zehir, who is the archetype, and it would be a bit weird if an aspect has aspects in the same world.
Ergo, Toril's Corellon would be seperate from Oerth's Corellon, but both would be an aspect of the Archtype/Primordial god that is omni-present throughout the universe.
-3e threw the notion of multispheric deities out the window. Every Crystal Sphere (another notion thrown out the window) existed independent of every other Crystal Sphere. This included the deities who resided within. A very silly notion. Thankfully, some authors took it upon themselves to "reverse" this (Shemmy, for instance).
3e's idea of a seperate Corellon in the Tree would be just fine from a Prime's perspective, because a typical mortal couldn't wrap his mind around the fact that his world's gods were really just part of something greater.
From a Planar's perspective, the Prime's perspective would be just silly, because he knows how the Outer Planes really work.
If you look at it as each individual world's cosmology was just the 'local cosmology', and the Wheel is the 'over cosmology', then everything is compatible between editions.
You know, although a lot of us don't like the 4e's deific downsizing, its really nothing new. I was reading through PftF last night and I was surprised at how many names these FR gods have that are never used anywhere else (on Toril). There's always been a precedent of Faerûnian gods being called something else somewhere else, but that tome just confirms that the gods go by many names in many places.
Bel
-PftF...PftF...PftF? You mean PgtF, maybe?
No....
Prayers from the Faithful, oh knowledgable one. ;)