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In today’s Forgotten Realms preview, we take you to the region of the Great Dale, from chapter 6 (Faerun and Beyond) of the forthcoming Campaign Guide.
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The Great Dale is the long, windswept gap between the Forest of Lethyr and the northern Dunwood (formerly called Rawlinswood). Rumpled ridges of bare rock rise from the thin soil, growing steeper and more rugged to the north and south as one climbs toward the forests that flank the vale.
Fierce winter winds scour the land during the cold months, and all year long the Great Dale is a desolate land. Leaving aside trade towns, the only major settlement is Yeshelmaar.
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The Great Dale is the long, windswept gap between the Forest of Lethyr and the northern Dunwood (formerly called Rawlinswood). Rumpled ridges of bare rock rise from the thin soil, growing steeper and more rugged to the north and south as one climbs toward the forests that flank the vale.
Fierce winter winds scour the land during the cold months, and all year long the Great Dale is a desolate land. Leaving aside trade towns, the only major settlement is Yeshelmaar.
Reading through this now...
If you don't here from me, send help...
-I liked this article. :D
-Probably because I like Demons.
-The place is PC bait! :D
-There is some hope for the Realms after all.
18DELTA
:evillaugh I'm sorta bummed at the loss of the Blightlords. I sense a Homebrewed Paragon Path of Blight coming to my game, still.
I'm so psyched up to read the full book it's just crazy.
No surprises at all - seems almost exactly the same as it was in 3e - I don't know if I'm disappointed or relieved.
Except for the Demons replacing the rotting man - I kinda liked him though, and it was just a matter of swapping out one evil for another, so I'm not even sure what the purpose was.
This neither excites me or enrages me - even the 3e map I did of the region is still fine (except for some drainage).
Bland - thats all that comes to mind ATM, but at least it wasn't terrible.
That's Awesome stuff.
Except for replacing the Rotting man with demons, its exactly the same as it was in 3e's UE. What did you find 'awesmoe' about it?
-Now we can have the Drow secretly controlling those Demons. (Subjective I know)
-Because wasn't 'Dun Tharos' originally a Drow City, before the Descent? :D
-I thought it built on previous lore instead of trashing it. ;)
-I did notice that the Population Figures were suprizingly even. Pop. 400, pop 400, pop 2000. :P
-Plus I am trying to be positive about this mess! ;)
18DELTA
I thought they had killed off the Rotting Man in one of the books or am I wrong?
-I think so.
-Markus you could have 'The Rotting Man' become 'Undead' and working to take back his old Dominion. Think of the possiblities! :D Isn't that the 4E Mantra! ;)
18DELTA :D
Hmph...
No surprises at all - seems almost exactly the same as it was in 3e - I don't know if I'm disappointed or relieved.
Except for the Demons replacing the rotting man - I kinda liked him though, and it was just a matter of swapping out one evil for another, so I'm not even sure what the purpose was.
This neither excites me or enrages me - even the 3e map I did of the region is still fine (except for some drainage).
Bland - thats all that comes to mind ATM, but at least it wasn't terrible.
Except for replacing the Rotting man with demons, its exactly the same as it was in 3e's UE. What did you find 'awesmoe' about it?
The Rottingman was killed off a while ago in one of the preisst novels.
As far as the devils go, read Champions of Ruin and the Unapproachable East. "Nothing new here at all" for a century leep in time.
Bland - thats all that comes to mind ATM, but at least it wasn't terrible.
I'm assuming the 3.5e FR Great Dale was also bland then?
18DELTA
The Rottingman was killed off a while ago in one of the priest novels.
See Lady of Poison by Bruce R. Cordell.
See Lady of Poison by Bruce R. Cordell.
-Wasn't that a part of a trilogy? I could have sworn I almost bought that book, but put it back.
Now that I know what it's about I must get it! :D 18DELTA
No. It's part of "The Priests" series of novels.
-Ok. Thanks!
-So it's like the 'Citadel' series. :D
18DELTA
No. It's part of "The Priests" series of novels.
I *really* wanted to like that book, but it ended up being the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I haven't bought or read an FR novel since...
Joe
I think a 'rotting legacy' would have been more interesting than a bunch of demons gone wild, though not undead - we have enough of those. Corrupt druids, perhaps.
is it just me or does dun tharos crys out myth drannor...demon infested city anyone?
-Ok. Thanks!
-So it's like the 'Citadel' series. :D
Yes, like most of the "Class" and "Location" series of FR novels.
its still to little info
As for Dun-Thauros and the Rotting Man, that story was indeed told in Lady of Poison, where the latter wasn't destroyed, but vanished near the end. Sending him and the Nentyarch away from the place did indeed release some of the entrapped demons, such as The Queen Abiding, who also makes an appearance in the novel. The place as such was of Narfell origin - demon-entrappment-wise. The Narfell city was build on an old Ilythiiri (not Drow) fortress Narathmault (TGHotR, -1015 DR, -10400 DR), from which the Nar gained their dark knowledge of demon summoning et al.
*Sending help to MarkusTay63 for good measure.
humans should not go messing with ancient iilthyri magics.
its just asking for trouble.......
why indead?
not so sure now about the great dale..... used to like the place.
I *really* wanted to like that book, but it ended up being the straw that broke the camel's back for me. I haven't bought or read an FR novel since...
Joe
Yep, it's pretty bad, as well as it's "sequel" Stardeep. Oddly enough, Cordell's third book Darkvision is one of the best FR novels I have read to date.
(I know that the order of publishment as well as the storylines in the books put Darkvision before Stardeep, but the bat writing in the later suggests otherwise.)
I thought they had killed off the Rotting Man in one of the books or am I wrong?
Been awhile since I read Lady of Poison, but I thought he was simply defeated in the book, not killed. This excerpt seems to say the opposite.
EDIT: Seems like Zanan concurs with me.
I think I'll keep him around though, and make him the unwilling 'seneschal' for whatever Elder Evil is ruling there these days.
Anyone notice a pattern here with these last two excerpts? People messing with (evil) powers they don't understand, and wind up 'waking' something that shouldn't be awakened.
Bruce Cordell really needs to throw away his Lovecraft collection.
--Markus you could have 'The Rotting Man' become 'Undead' and working to take back his old Dominion. Think of the possiblities! :D Isn't that the 4E Mantra! ;)
I might be thinking of someone else, buy I'm pretty sure he was already undead - in fact, that was a huge point of contention - he was an undead Druid!
I'm assuming the 3.5e FR Great Dale was also bland then?
Yup - bland as dirt. I would never consider running anything there, nor will I consider it in 4e's version.
Strange how they didn't change one of the few areas that really needed it.
I liked Maiden of Pain. I considered ALdy of Poison... maybe I'll pick it up.
I think a 'rotting legacy' would have been more interesting than a bunch of demons gone wild, though not undead - we have enough of those. Corrupt druids, perhaps.
Absolutely.
It was the one and only thing I found interesting about the region.
A few powerful Demon Lords pulling the strings in the background = cool espionage-type adventures. Packs of Demons running around in the woods = overdone and boring/ lots of hack N Slash style adventures. Give me one really, REALLY diabolical villain over the Power Ranger's 'Putties' anyday.
We have enough fodder in D&D, thank you very much.
Bruce Cordell really needs to throw away his Lovecraft collection.
At least he used demons (which, again, make sense for the region) instead of aboleths or weird Far Realms creatures.
18DELTA :P
I know I read about one somewhere... maybe I'm finally going nuts. I must of consfused him with the Rotting man (unless the Rotting man was ret-conned from an earlier version of him). But, whatever...
Like I said, this area doesn't really interst me.
At least he used demons (which, again, make sense for the region) instead of aboleths or weird Far Realms creatures.
But demons are now corrupted Elementals, which brings them much closer to some 'aberrational (a corruption of nature).
So, riddle me this - was it BC's idea to make the demons more 'nature corrupted', to fit HIS worldview?
18DELTA
I heard about an undead druid awhile ago, not in this thread.
Maybe Old Sage will come along and point me in the right drection.
Dun-Tharos Being "Infested" With Demons: Interesting idea. I like Narfell, so it's good to see some of the..."aspects" of their culture return. By the context I read it in, sounded like a prison was broken, which is an interesting thing.
The Bad
The Rotting Man Is No More: He was an interesting concept, I'll give him that much.
The Demon Lords: It's not that the information itself is bad, but I would have liked to seen more about them. Especially Eschar, who seems to have a "Crown of Horns"...
The Queen Abiding: Alright, just changed my mind on her. Is it me, or does this sound exactly like (or somewhat like) the Raven Queen, from the PHB? Only in demon form.
The Ugly
Nothing.
No, no, no...
I heard about an undead druid awhile ago, not in this thread.
Maybe Old Sage will come along and point me in the right drection.
Lossarwyn, the Ice Lich: Lich (elf) Druid 18/hierophant 1. He was trapped inside a glacier and now works with the Eldreth Veluuthra. It is said that he does not worship any gods and nature itself gives him his powers (I doubt that; looks like some god is behind his magical powers - but this is a discussion for another thread ;) ).
He's stated in Champions of Ruin.
... this time. ;)
Funny. I would have thought LK would have picked up on that first.
Thank You so much, good sir - I knew I wasn't going crazy...
... this time. ;)
Funny. I would have thought LK would have picked up on that first.
Their is also a Trio of undead Druids called the Umber council in the Umber marshes in Aglarond (UE - page 99)
Thanks for that.
Thank You so much, good sir - I knew I wasn't going crazy...
... this time. ;)
Funny. I would have thought LK would have picked up on that first.
You're welcome!
Now THOSE I've never heard of.
Thanks for that.
No worries
I mentioned earlier how it seems pretty much the same as it was at the end of 3e, but that I didn't care for it all that much in previous editions, either.
So I guess I never thought it was a 'Great' Dale....
A mediocre Dale at best. :P
However, this is a nice, empty spot without a lot going on wherein a DM can insert anything he wants to do with Demons or Druids - or both - so its good in that respect.
I'm thinking about an angle where The Rotting Man (now even more rotting then before :D ) has been enslaved by the powerful Demon Lord Eschar (who probably holds his phylactory or some-such), but is secretly working in concert with the Circle of Leth by giving them information that has lead to them thwarting dozens of his plans. For their part, they have promised to 'free' the Rotting Man from the Demon's service (and by 'Free', they mean to eventually kill him, but he doesn't realize that).
The Rotting Man: is now a very rare Druidic Lich, taking his powers from the death aspect of the natural order (having to do with rot and decay). Upon his destruction at the Demon's hands, his soul was transferred to a Gem set within the Fiend's crown... alongside several others that may also contain souls (these gems were fashioned after the Raumathari Spiritcages).
These stones appear to be a new edition to the Crown, which seems to be an ancient artifact of unknown origin. It doesn't so much sit upon the creature's head, as it does IN it - it looks as though it was forced down until the point where the skin was torn and it sits snugly upon the Fiend's skull itself! Although bits of flesh have regrown around and over portions of the crown, in other places the wound still appears fresh, and ichor perpetually drips down and around the demon's face, granting him an even more hideous visage then usual.
As for the Crown's origins - thats easy - the Rotting man was feeding a god's essence to the Fiend before his plans went awry, and there aren't too many crowns with horns that contain godly essences...
Yeah... I think I can work with this. ;)
-I could see a quest into Rashemen, Thay, maybe Aglorond too. That is unless something really 'Drastic' has happened to them. We know what is going on in Thay. Which I have always kinda liked
18DELTA
The Spiritcages come from a concept I was throwing around a LONG time ago, and George Krashos has similar thoughts along those lines (about Ruamathor trying to entrap Narfellian Demons). The only place you might find out more about them is in the ruins of Tsharoon in the Quoya desert, where the Copper Demon of Troos once held sway...
Or you could travel to the far north of the Taan, in the old Kalmyk lands there is an immense, ancient Citadel that once served as a Raumathari POW camp called Rauth-Laag...
But you'll have to wait until my Hordelands netbook is released to find out more... :D
So I guess I never thought it was a 'Great' Dale....
A mediocre Dale at best. :P
-Mehdale.
18DELTA
The markers pre-date the Imaskari empire, but they were re-keyed during the period of Anok-Imaskar, to allow the bi-annual relief of troops stationed in the far-flung frontier fortresses.
How that? ;)
The Spellplague has left the system highly unstable, and although there is a 50% of them working the way the Imaskari intended, they occassional deposit people into other strange and obscure locales...
and most often in the middle of a Fey forest.
Been there done that. :D
The markers pre-date the Imaskari empire, but the were re-keyed during the period of Anok-Imaskar, to allow the bi-annual relief of troops stationed in the far-flung frontier fortresses.
How that? ;)
The Spellplague has left the system highly unstable, and although there is a 50% of them working the way the Imaskari intended, they occassional deposit people into other strange and obscure locales...
and most often in the middle of a Fey forest.
-Ok. :P
-So who put them there? ;) The Elves or is it a relic from Lost Abeir? :P
18DELTA
I thought that final line was a good hint. :D
Both the Imaskari and Batrachi were masters of portal-tech, but they just as often re-used pre-existing ones (its a lot easier on the resources).
And BTW - not all of those "Fey Forests" are on Toril.
Several groups made use of them before he Imaskari, but as to who created them - they pre-date the Elves as well.
I thought that final line was a good hint. :D
Both the Imaskari and Batrachi were masters of portal-tech, but they just as often re-used pre-existing ones (its a lot easier on the resources).
And BTW - not all of those "Fey Forests" are on Toril.
-
:evillaugh 18DELTA
Therefore: Neat!
The only ''bad'' things are the Rotting Man being dead, and the name change of the Rawlinswood.
I can live with that.
18DELTA
The only ''bad'' things are the Rotting Man being dead, and the name change of the Rawlinswood.
I can live with that.
As a map-maker that is constantly try to squeeze long names into tight locations, so can I. ;)
And YES, he is VERY cool, and thats why I'm keeping him on the sidelines IMG.
Either I'm blind, or you're sneaky.
Ahhh... never read that one... which novel was that again?
-The first novel in The Priests series. Lady of Poison.
Since WoTC is making the habit of crossing over core elements into FR, why not push it a bit deeper and make whatever is down there an aspect or exarch of Tharizdun that is using the demonic chaos and even the empire plot as a distraction to find magic on Faerun powerful enough to bust his master out of prison...
Yeah, good article.
One of my favorite excerpts before. They got rid of the Rotting Man as the main threat of the region (who frankly wasen't too interesting and had almost nothing to do with the Great Dale's troubled past)...
-I always viewed it as fitting in with the overarching concept of corruption in the region. Which would make him and his Blightlords fit in.
-I always viewed it as fitting in with the overarching concept of corruption in the region. Which would make him and his Blightlords fit in.
Still, the demons have a far nicer tie-in with the lore of the region so they would most likely make a better threat for both those who know the lore and don't. We have some nice historical ruin runs complemented with sinister lore-based plots for the former and some old-school demon bashing at the very least for the latter.
The Rotting Man in the end is just another evil druid with plans of world domination (though I did like the Blightlord Prestige Class), but the DM can fill in his background more if he wants.
The Rotting Man was a corrupted Druid.
Druid = Nature = Elements.
I'd have to agree with Karsus' assessment of the whole 'corruption theme' going on there.
In 4e, it is quite possible to create demons by summoning Elementals and corrupting them. :D
In fact... maybe THAT's what those cysts were for!!!
Demons in 4e are corrupted Elementals.
The Rotting Man was a corrupted Druid.
Druid = Nature = Elements.
I'd have to agree with Karsus' assessment of the whole 'corruption theme' going on there.
In 4e, it is quite possible to create demons by summoning Elementals and corrupting them. :D
In fact... maybe THAT's what those cysts were for!!!
Who knows, the Rotting Man might still be around somewhere, serving a new purpose (or maybe he was something else other than what everyone suspected him to be all along).
Still, the demons have a far nicer tie-in with the lore of the region so they would most likely make a better threat for both those who know the lore and don't. We have some nice historical ruin runs complemented with sinister lore-based plots for the former and some old-school demon bashing at the very least for the latter.
-Right, but as I said, corruption throughout the years seems to be the modus operandi of the region. The Rotting Man is just the most recent incarnation.
The Rotting Man in the end is just another evil druid with plans of world domination (though I did like the Blightlord Prestige Class), but the DM can fill in his background more if he wants.
-He was a teensy-weensy bit more than just that. ;)
-Right, but as I said, corruption throughout the years seems to be the modus operandi of the region. The Rotting Man is just the most recent incarnation.
-He was a teensy-weensy bit more than just that. ;)
Yep, I agree, I never said the Rotting Man didn't fit the region, but rather that the demons tie in with the lore a lot better.
Well, last I recall he was a half-demon, so there may be ties to the bloodlines of old Narfell there.
-And, the entire part about being the Chosen of Talona, and the entire schpiel that took place in Lady of Poison, with Lurue, and all of that.
Well, yeah, I know that too, but I never read Lady of Poison so don't spoil it.
18DELTA :D
The reason why he can never be fully banished rom Toril is because he is actually a native outsider (unlike many other 'Elementals gone bad' in 4e, he originated on Toril). You banish him, and he just re-appears somewhere else on Toril. :D
-Eltab is still around. He freed himself, if I recall correctly, in that horrible novel, Crimson Gold, and is doing whatever powerful Demon Lords do. Barbecuing, I guess.
Hmm, now that I think about it the Rotting Man may have something to do with Eltab (maybe he is even his son!!!).
I would guess that his plans have been foiled and he is no longer the dominant evil power in the region, but still quite active.
-The Demonlands were created when the Narfelli Demon Binders bound Eltab in the Citadel of the Conjurers with the Adamantine Binding. Thus it caused parts of the 248th layer of the Abyss to 'bleed' over into the Realms.
18DELTA ;)
-I know Eltab is wanting vengence against Tamy and Thay. :D
-Ugh...Have I ever mentioned that I don't like that novel?
No, no, no...
I heard about an undead druid awhile ago, not in this thread.
Maybe Old Sage will come along and point me in the right drection.
ah the druiddess she lich
she is in aglorand
:D
What novel was Tamy Faye... errr... I mean Tamy 'N' Thay in?
Thats got to be the worst FR play-on-words since Once around the Realms.
What novel was Tamy Faye... errr... I mean Tamy 'N' Thay in?
-Asides for the Thay trilogy, I recall a short story in...Realms of Magic, I believe. And, of course, the dreaded and sucky Crimson Gold. Have I ever mentioned that I don't like that novel?
What novel was Tamy Faye... errr... I mean Tamy 'N' Thay in?
-I know this is so wrong on so many levels. But she did look like him (Szass Tam) before she died! :embarrass
18DELTA
You guys are confusing the crap out of me.
I really thought some auther had created a character named Tamy Thay...
Ugh.
Are we talking about Szass Tam here?
-Aren't we? Who else would "Tamy in Thay" be?