I am new to FR and want learn more about the history etc.
What should I read to become more familiar with it? Is there a FR for dummies?:D
I also wanted to start reading some of the novels, can I start reading the newer ones, or will I be lost with not having the back ground stories?
Thank you
What should I read to become more familiar with it? Is there a FR for dummies?:D
-If you have to buy one book: The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. If you had the opportunity to buy two: A Grand History of the Realms. If you could buy a third book, get something in a region that you are curious about, like the Underdark, or Cormyr, or whatever other place.
-If you are starting out completely, though it is billed for new people, I would not pick up the new 4e Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide because it does not go into enough encyclopedic information about Forgotten Realms to work as a viable "learn about things from the ground up" book. The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting does do that, to a degree. If you have the general framework understood and all of that, then, if you have the option of a third book, pick up that one, to be "up-to-date", so to speak.
I also wanted to start reading some of the novels, can I start reading the newer ones, or will I be lost with not having the back ground stories?
-Depends on what books you want to read. Obviously, if you buy book three of a trilogy, you're going to be left out, in terms of the relevant information from book one and two. Generally speaking, since there isn't an overt metaplot, and a large variety of novels taking place in a variety of places, you don't have to worry about not knowing what's going on if you don't read some other novel from an unrelated series.
I already have the 4e FRCG, but like you said it does not fill you in on past history. I will get the other ones to fill me in.
I got Canticle by Salvatore to start reading to.
I guess I have a lot of catching up to do.
Thanks again. I will probable keep posting dumb question when I need something explained. Is the forgotten realms general area the best place to post questions like these or should they be posted somewhere else?
Thanks again
I got Canticle by Salvatore to start reading to.
-With that book, no, there really isn't any optional reading to do beforehand. Most books are like that. There's a few related tidbits, if I remember correctly (it's been a while since I read those books), but there's nothing that you need to read in another book/series to make sense of what's going on in that book, or in the entire Cleric Quintet.
Thanks again. I will probable keep posting dumb question when I need something explained. Is the forgotten realms general area the best place to post questions like these or should they be posted somewhere else?
Thanks again
-Depends on the question, really. If it's something like, "What year did X take place in?", then it belongs in Forgotten Realms: Realmslore. If it's something like, "Who is on the cover of [Insert Book]?", then, yeah, it belongs in Forgotten Realms: General Discussion. I'm always making sure that out-of-place threads are moved by moderators to their proper places, so it doesn't matter too, too much, at the end of the day.
I guess I have a lot of catching up to do.
Don't EVER feel the 'need' that you have to learn everything there is to know about FR.
That is a false presumption. I ran FR for ten years without knowing much more then what was in the RAS novels and and the old Grey Box. I enjoy the Realms much more now that I know more, but the idea is to have fun and just enjoy yourself. No-one is going to test you on your 'FR smarts'... this isn't school... pick novels and sourcebooks that interest you and learn the setting at your own pace.
The Realms are like a fine wine; they go down better when each sip is savored, not chug-A-lugged like beer at a Frat-party. ;)
Welcome to the wonder that is the Forgetten realms - Well Met.
Don't EVER feel the 'need' that you have to learn everything there is to know about FR.
That is a false presumption. I ran FR for ten years without knowing much more then what was in the RAS novels and and the old Grey Box.
A worthwhile point.
Take my own experience with the Realms as an example. I've been with the FORGOTTEN REALMS since the beginning, and yet there are still one or two things about the world -- like Drizzt and the drow -- that I just haven't had the time to properly research.
...
Nielsonj, my advice to you is to find a particular area or section of Realmslore that piques your gaming interest, and develop your relationship from that point. You'll eventually find that your initial interest will lead to other aspects of the Realms that you might not have considered before.
I think he would be up-to-date with the Realms within few weeks of reading.
Why does no one advise Nielsonj to begin directly with the post-spellplague novels or books ?
I think he would be up-to-date with the Realms within few weeks of reading.
Ok, Fillow. ;)
Check out Ed Greenwood Presents: Waterdeep. There is about 5 seperate novels out. They are stand alone, and very good. Or try Richard Bakers Swords of the Moonsea Trilogy. Only 2 Novels are out, yet IMHO Corsair is Mr. Bakers best Novel to-date.
I hope that helps. Plus the only stupid question is the UN-ASKED question.Post spellplague stuff would be better termed 'current events' rather than history.
Right Stigger.
One point ! ;)
Nielsonj, do you know what the Spellplague phenomenon is in the Realms ?
I think one could say that there are... three eras in the Realms history. The most popular is the previous one (before the Spellplague) and the current one is the post-Spellplague one (which is not as popular as the previous one !)
Ok, Fillow. ;)
Check out Ed Greenwood Presents: Waterdeep. There is about 5 seperate novels out. They are stand alone, and very good. Or try Richard Bakers Swords of the Moonsea Trilogy. Only 2 Novels are out, yet IMHO Corsair is Mr. Bakers best Novel to-date.
Indeed Nightseer.
Here is a list of the released post-spellplague novels :
Undead ; The Haunted Lands , Book II ; by Richard Lee Byers - Mar-08
Unholy ; The Haunted Lands , Book III ; by Richard Lee Byers - Jan-09
The Gossamer Plain ; The Empyrean Odyssey , Book I ; by Thomas M Reid - May-07
The Fractured Sky ; The Empyrean Odyssey , Book II ; by Thomas M Reid - Nov-08
Corsair ; Blades of the Moonsea , Book II ; by Richard Baker - Mar-09
Swordmage ; Blades of the Moonsea , Book I ; by Richard Baker - May-08
Blackstaff Tower ; Ed Greenwood presents Waterdeep , Book I ; by Steven Schend - Sep-08
Mistshore ; Ed Greenwood presents Waterdeep , Book II ; by Jaleigh Johnson - Sep-08
Downshadow ; Ed Greenwood presents Waterdeep , Book III ; by Erik Scott de Bie - Apr-09
City of the Dead ; Ed Greenwood presents Waterdeep , Book IV ; by Rosemary Jones - Jun-09
Plague of Spells ; The Abolethic Sovereignty , Book I ; by Bruce R. Cordell - Dec-08
The Fanged Crown ; The Wilds , Book … ; by Jenna Helland - Jan-09
The Restless Shore ; The Wilds , Book … ; by James P. Davis - May-09
Why does no one advise Nielsonj to begin directly with the post-spellplague novels or books ?
Because then I'd feel like I was depriving Nielsonj of the early opportunity to acquaint himself with some truly exceptional pre-4e Realms fiction. Like Ed's books, for example -- I consider the "Knights of Myth Drannor" trilogy to be required reading for any true initiate of the Realmslore.
Nielsonj, do you know what the Spellplague phenomenon is in the Realms ?
Yes I am up to date on the Spellplague. I have the 4e FRCG, so I understand the what happened and how the world has changed etc.
Thanks for everyone suggestions and help!
Like others said just have fun. My suggestion is make a game set in Loudwater or the Moonshaes. The Moonshaes recently have gotten two articles (on DDI) that detail the region really well and they are islands so they can be secluded from the rest of Faerun and you can just focus on that area.
Might want to check out the free download section here as well, the Volo's Guides are quite good for giving history and lore in a travel guide sort of format. I'd highly recommend them myself.
Thanks Stigger the Volo's guides look great just got done downloading them!
Basically i then used the Forgotten Realms wikia (google it) for the rest of the info, it is very good.
-I wouldn't recommend that, asides from being a secondary or tertiary source of information or for bibliographical information. It's horribly full of holes. Completely ignoring information that's just missing, or is wrong (the latter, which happens, from time to time), it doesn't know if it's coming or going sometimes. Elves are Elves in some parts, Elves are Eladrin in some parts, Realmspace exists in some parts, "the world", "Toril" & "Abeir", and Abeir-Toril exist in others...
What are your thoughts?
The Moonshaes recently have gotten two articles (on DDI) that detail the region really well and they are islands so they can be secluded from the rest of Faerun and you can just focus on that area.
One of them is Sarifal? What was the other one?
Thanks
One of them is Sarifal? What was the other one?
Thanks
That would be "Grand History of the Realms: The Moonshaes" -- by Brian R James. I don't have a link handy at the moment.
That would be "Grand History of the Realms: The Moonshaes" -- by Brian R James. I don't have a link handy at the moment.
Dragon 362, sadly it is one of the "Forgotten" issues that has never been compiled. A crime considering some of the material contained in those issues, including this article by Brian about the History of the Moonshaes that the Old Sage referred to.
One of them is Sarifal?
I was just reading Sanifal and it talks about Finellen having a beard. i guess that female dwarf have beards still in FR even though in 4e they don't?
Dragon 362, sadly it is one of the "Forgotten" issues that has never been compiled.
Thanks for the link Iluvrien
Is there a thread that talks about up coming FR guides there will be putting out? Will they be doing what they did for 3.0?
What are your thoughts?
-As per Rich Baker, there aren't going to be any more sourcebooks at the current time, according to WotC's business model. They made a player's book, and general book, and an adventure, and that's it, as far as that goes. All further support will be via novels, and via online articles, like the linked ones.
-As per Rich Baker, there aren't going to be any more sourcebooks at the current time.
So the old sourcebooks from 3.0 for races, etc. still, apply?
-Unless old information is contracted in a newer book, the old information still applies. So, take Races of Faerûn for example. If a source printed since that book came out hasn't said anything about information in that book, the information in that book is still the most current, and as far as we know, most accurate.
Which would make Wood Elves what I wonder going by that logic... ;) :P
:P
Which would make Wood Elves what I wonder going by that logic... ;) :P
-Canon =/= accuracy. Take the Sundering, for example.
What are your thoughts on running your FR campains? Do you allow other ideas, races, creatures, class etc. into your FR campain?
For example the Ebberon campain books are coming out, if one of your players wanted something from these books for his charater in a FR campain would you allow it? Example dragonmarks? Or do you keep to the FR book exclusively?
Thanks for your ideas.
If its any comfort, as far as I'm aware, one of the goals of 4e was to encourage people to use stuff from specific settings in their games even if they don't run those settings. It could always be done before, but there was a lot of resistence to the idea among some for reasons I don't quite fathom.
If its any comfort, as far as I'm aware, one of the goals of 4e was to encourage people to use stuff from specific settings in their games even if they don't run those settings. It could always be done before, but there was a lot of resistence to the idea among some for reasons I don't quite fathom.
I have always wondered about this one. One thing I had considered was the perceptiong of a "Setting". I mean, what is one, really? Is it a collection of places and names? Well, not really, because any of those can change at any time either through a DM or through the company that owns the Setting. Might it then be a collection of themes, like "High Magic, Low Tech" and so on? Even those are subject to change and the products still wear the FR badge. So what about a continuity of history? A starting point and then everything after that is automagically called FR? That might be closer, not least because it is the way product lines work in the Real World. Although the Time Jump throws a spanner in the continuity part of that one.
Maybe people didn't want to add these things in the past as they felt it would somehow stop FR being FR. I don't know, since I wasn't one of them. Just an idea, although I am sure it has been debated before.
For example the Ebberon campain books are coming out, if one of your players wanted something from these books for his charater in a FR campain would you allow it? Example dragonmarks? Or do you keep to the FR book exclusively?
-Dragonmarks work very easily, as Spellplaguemarks, or whatever the heck they are called. I can't remember for the life of me.
-Anyway, as a DM, if things can be worked in in a coherent manner, it should be all good. A Warforged, for example. "What? A Warforged!? Not in my Forgotten Realms! Wait...Oh, it's in the Faerûn in the first place because it was pushed through a portal by a mad sorcerer from [Insert some place in Eberron] and is trying to return home, which will be that character's hook? Okay, that makes sense."
-As long as it makes sense in relation to everything else, that should be the bottom line.
-Rich baker also had something similar to say, HERE.
For example the Ebberon campain books are coming out, if one of your players wanted something from these books for his charater in a FR campain would you allow it? Example dragonmarks? Or do you keep to the FR book exclusively? Thanks for your ideas.
I allowed them as mystical symbols not related to dragons (overexposed imo)
for example the house Cannith is called Nith Clockwork Emporium, originates from Lantan (island of artificers/inventors) and is of Gond's mortal bloodline
then the Deneith became a mercenary company based in Tethyr, former companions of Rhidri (Red Knight, goddess of war) wearing red-white checkerboard sigils
Ghallanda halfings are called clan Khalaf of the Sea Shire that are blessed with the charms of Alarlee (a version of halfling goddess Cyrrollalee)
with house Jorasco it's complicated, they're Thael (kinda vampiric), a blood-drinking house of Erlkazar that made a pact with the goddess of justice and redemption
etc. for the same for other houses, FR has room for everything, it's all mostly importable except warforged (and dragonborn), they're ugly
Another question for all the DMs.
What are your thoughts on running your FR campains? Do you allow other ideas, races, creatures, class etc. into your FR campain?
For example the Ebberon campain books are coming out, if one of your players wanted something from these books for his charater in a FR campain would you allow it? Example dragonmarks? Or do you keep to the FR book exclusively?
Thanks for your ideas.
I Agree with Stigger (for a change) My rules are simple "as long it makes sense in a background story, I all for it"
Dragon marks can be a new thing IMO, not everything has to be lore-full...
-Dragonmarks work very easily, as Spellplaguemarks, or whatever the heck they are called. I can't remember for the life of me.
I've remarked on this elsewhere as well, but my main point bears repeating here. I think Dragonmarks and Spellscars have a few parallels but are pretty much distinct ideas.
The biggest and only clear parallel I see is that both marks and scars bless/curse the wearer with magical abilities. But seeing as there are thousands of things that do that (this is fantasy, after all), I think the much hyped confluence between spellscars and dragonmarks on this basis is a little bit of a stretch.
Please note that my post is meant to say very little about the mechanics of Eberron dragonmarks in 4e. Dragonmarks in 4e are feats that you can take which will either modify how your powers work or maybe give you a couple ritual-esque effects--i.e., they make you better at what you already do, whether that's healing, or guarding, or whatever. This is TOTALLY different from spellscar mechanics (which are actually a little similar to how dragonmarks worked in 3.5, come to think of it). For a good essay about the distinction, check out James Wyatt's words on the subject: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drdd/2009June1
This post isn't about mechanics. Everything I'm about to say is coming at it from a narrative standpoint--i.e., how it works in the novels. My post is just arguing that conceptually, the two are very different.
First of all, appearance:
A dragonmark is a physical symbol on the skin like a tattoo. A spellscar is a metaphysical scar caused by the spellplague--it might manifest physically, or might be hidden inside, waiting to be revealed when used.
Also, in some cases, they both appear on the skin: dragonmarks all the time as tattoos, some spellscars when the power is in use. So if you wanted, you *could* make a character with a spellscar that manifests in a way similar to a dragonmark, but that isn't the most common.
Spellscar manifestations vary wildly. There are examples in the FRPG, including glowing eyes and wings of blue flame. Also a good example, in my novel Downshadow, there are four separate spellscar manifestations for four separate characters--one which is a series of blue runic markings that appear on the skin (anyone see Carrie 2: The Rage? best thing to come out of that movie), one which is blue lightning arcing around a set of steel claws bound into a man's hands (courtesy spellplague), and two that have no obvious visual manifestation and have very different effects (one which toughens the bearer, and one which burns/unravels flesh at a touch).
Secondly, flavor:
On the one hand, Dragonmarks are generally positive things, inherited, and not at all random in either their appearance (though you might belong to a particular house and not manifest it, you will NEVER manifest a mark belonging to another house--unless you happen to have blood from that house) or their powers (the Mark of Making helps you with constructs and devices, the Mark of Sentinel is for guarding things, etc.).
By contrast, Spellscars are negative things (almost like curses), can appear for any reason or no reason whatsoever (you were hit by a patch of spellplague, you went to a plaguechanged land, you were born with a spellscar, you had an ancestor with a spellscar, or the DM just decided to give you one), and vary wildly in their effects. If you learn to control your spellscar (by taking the Student of the Plague feat), then you can learn how to make it do different things--there are a number of pages in the FRPG that list the various powers you can learn. With this variety, no two spellscars are necessarily at all alike, the way say, two Marks of Sentinel are alike.
We don't really have mechanics for an uncontrolled spellscar (i.e., on a character who does NOT have the Student of the Plague feat--it's up to you and your DM), but I suspect that they are at best frustrating and life-altering (see Shadowbane's spellscar in Downshadow) and at worst extremely dangerous to the bearer and those around him/her (Lady Ilira's spellscar).
So IMHO, while some have remarked on perceived conceptual similarities, spellscars and dragonmarks are really quite different. They're no more alike than a wizard's power source vs. a cleric's vs. a sorcerer's vs. a warlock's.
All that said, you *could* explain away the presence of a Dragonmark (on an Eberron expat, for instance) as being a spellscar . . . but in that case, because spellscars have little in common with one another, that character would be one of the only ones (if not THE only one) in the world with those abilities. None of this *Dragonmark House* business . . . unless of course you *want* to go that way--it's your game! Do what you like!
I also think the dragonmark mechanics could be borrowed to make some cool additional spellscar mechanics . . . hmm . . .
Just throwing in my two cents in a topic that I find very interesting!
Cheers
Just throwing in my two cents in a topic that I find very interesting!
Thanks for you 2cents, erik.