FR Regions/Real World Correspondences

Post/Author/DateTimePost
#1

riddle_phantastique_dup

Oct 08, 2008 19:50:48
I have heard that most of the regions in the Realms correspond to certain countries and cultures from around the world. Certain areas I am sufficiently familiar with to answer people's questions on, but others stump me, so I was hoping that someone here has a full list of every region (including ones no longer in the Realms) and the real world area it is like.

Thanks for your help.
#2

oluevara

Oct 08, 2008 20:15:56
This isn't so much the case in the 4E realms, but in the twenty years of continuity that the spellplague threw out, it went something like this:

Unther=Sumer/Babylon
Mulhorand=Egypt
Chessenta=Mediterranean/Greece
Maztica = preconquest mesoamerica. (Central Mexico.)
Calimshan - Ottoman Turkey, and "the middle east" more generically.
Zakhara - mythic Arabian peninsula
Chult - vaguely African/central american
Amn could perhaps be compared to 16th century Iberian peninsula.
The sword coast North/Ruathym - scandinavia
Damara, Rashemen - Russia (sometimes)
Moonshaes - Ireland and Scotland and Wales (Sometimes)
Kara-Tur - this one's easy -- the various nations all have real world equivalents. Koryo=Korea, Tabot=Tibet, Kozakura and Wa=Japan, etc.
Katashaka was supposed to be africa-esque, which presumably would necessitate a vast diversity of cultures and cultural practices since that was the case in africa
Hordelands + Mongolia, Uighur China, etc.
Var, Durpar, Estagund - South Asia

These are all the ones i can think of at the moment.

Keep in mind that some of the older sources in particular were kind of problematic in their representations of non-european cultures - at times totalizing and reductionist, so it's hard and even politically problematic to draw too fine a parallel...
#3

BadCatMan

Oct 08, 2008 21:41:48
And Osse for Australia in Lady Of Poison.

There's yet another Middle East in the Raurin desert area. The Utter East and the Shining Lands are based on India. And there's the Yehimals / Himalayas, around which we have Bhuddist-like monks of the Padhra.

It goes on. All fantasy borrows from the real world to some greater or lesser degree, and FR is no exception. Some are lazy direct copies with the names only slightly altered, others you have to really squint a bit to get the reference. It adds variety and options.
#4

lord_karsus

Oct 10, 2008 10:59:25
I have heard that most of the regions in the Realms correspond to certain countries and cultures from around the world. Certain areas I am sufficiently familiar with to answer people's questions on, but others stump me, so I was hoping that someone here has a full list of every region (including ones no longer in the Realms) and the real world area it is like.

Thanks for your help.

-Note that this is somewhat faulty logic. Everything in fantasy is based on something that we, Humans, can conceptualize. Obviously. In taking something we can conceptualize, and turning it into something 'original', the thing that was conceptualized- in this case, a nation of people, or a state- goes through numerous revisions and alterations, until it, too, becomes something original. In most cases, in the Forgotten Realms, this is the case. In most places, you won't get more than a passing similarity between the actual nation of people, or state, and the Forgotten Realms nation of people or state that was based on the actual one. Some transliterations, let's call them, are very detailed, and only hint of the original idea they were based on. Others, are fairly obvious and straightforward, and actually do harm, in that they too closely resemble the nation of people or state that they were based upon.
#5

christopher_rowe

Oct 10, 2008 11:16:54
For an excellent discussion of this issue in fantasy in general, and in the work of Robert E. Howard in particular, see Patrick Louinet's introduction to The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian, the first of the three volume "rescue" of Howard's Conan tales published in the US by Ballantine/Del Rey. HP Lovecraft asked this question, in the form of a pointed remark in a letter, about Howard's "World of Hyboria" and Louinet's response, drawing on Howard's own thinking about this method, is fascinating.

Also note that from the very beginning, the published Realms have explictly acknowledged the practice and made no apology for it, with Ed Greenwood writing in the introduction of the gray box materials that the Realms are much like the Earth of the 13th and 14th centuries.
#6

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Oct 10, 2008 12:41:27
I have heard that most of the regions in the Realms correspond to certain countries and cultures from around the world.

Eh...most regions in the heartlands of Faerun were never meant to be direct parallels of particular real world nations. The areas that most directly resemble places in the real world tend to be the areas that were "tacked on" later and, incidently, haven't sold that well and/or wound up being obliterated in the 4E version of the setting.
#7

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Oct 10, 2008 12:45:35
Also note that from the very beginning, the published Realms have explictly acknowledged the practice and made no apology for it, with Ed Greenwood writing in the introduction of the gray box materials that the Realms are much like the Earth of the 13th and 14th centuries.

Note, though, that Ed himself has also said that the realms that he himself created weren't meant to be direct parallels of real world countries, partly because he thought it would lead to people drawing conclusions about these fictional places that weren't meant to be there (ie. X place in the Realms is like the 13th century Y in the real world, so it probably has all the same social mores that Y did).
#8

christopher_rowe

Oct 10, 2008 12:53:40
Note, though, that Ed himself has also said that the realms that he himself created weren't meant to be direct parallels of real world countries, partly because he thought it would lead to people drawing conclusions about these fictional places that weren't meant to be there (ie. X place in the Realms is like the 13th century Y in the real world, so it probably has all the same social mores that Y did).

Yeah, I think we might be bumping up against the intentional fallacy a little bit there in some places, though.
#9

rinonalyrna_fathomlin

Oct 10, 2008 12:58:34
Not sure what you mean, but I just put an example in there to clarify what I was talking about.
#10

zaeshir

Oct 10, 2008 13:39:49
I've always enjoyed the Ottoman Empire feel of Calimshan and the Ancient Egypt feel of Mulhorand. But those are times/areas that fascinate me in general, so I suppose that's to be expected.
#11

lord_karsus

Oct 17, 2008 10:47:20
-Calimshan is also one of my favorite locales.
#12

Zireael

Oct 27, 2008 8:01:57
Why is Chessenta compared to Greece? I agree with the rest, but that?
#13

addle-cove-anarchist

Oct 27, 2008 8:24:49
cause of the names, city states and similar politics, Akanax is militaristic like Sparta, Cimbar is somewhat like Athens

other than that it's different
#14

BadCatMan

Oct 27, 2008 8:49:12
The Old Empires sourcebook makes it clearly inspired by a Classical age of Greece and Rome. Tchazzar is a lot like Alexander, there's the philosophers and mathematicians, gladiators and politicians, the names are definitely of the Greece and Rome flavour, and there's the city-states addle mentioned.

Chessenta's one of the better RW-analogues, inspired by the RW, with the cosmetics, but spun off in a new and Realmsian way. There's the city states and rival factions of typical FR, and very different things drive the Chessentans than did the ancient Greeks and Romans.
#15

old_sage

Oct 27, 2008 9:00:12
Most of the novels set in the area have pushed back a little on the obvious Greek influence, which is probably for the best... See Maiden of Pain, most recently, but also one of Rich Baker's old novels where the Shadow Weave was introduced and the comic novel set in the Blade Kingdoms wedged between Chessenta and Chondath.
#16

old_sage

Oct 27, 2008 9:02:01
The Old Empires sourcebook makes it clearly inspired by a Classical age of Greece and Rome. Tchazzar is a lot like Alexander, there's the philosophers and mathematicians, gladiators and politicians, the names are definitely of the Greece and Rome flavour, and there's the city-states addle mentioned.

Chessenta's one of the better RW-analogues, inspired by the RW, with the cosmetics, but spun off in a new and Realmsian way. There's the city states and rival factions of typical FR, and very different things drive the Chessentans than did the ancient Greeks and Romans.

Things that make Chessenta clearly Greek inspired, aside from Scott Bennie, the author of FR10 that introduced Chessenta having said that's what he was hired to do [though I will say I think Scott did a great job and I still quite like FR10]... Cimbar is a clearly modeled on Athens, Akanax on Sparta, and it's been too long since I studied Ancient Greece but some of the Chessentan cities are also appear based on other real-life Greek city-states; the prominence of art and philosophy; the mobs in Cimbar/Athens; the wearing of togas; the political structure of nominally independent city-states that unite against common foes; the Olympic-like Thulbian Games that take place; the prominence of Greco-style wrestling; the popularity of comedic and tragic plays; the pictures in FR10, one of which depicts warriors in Hoplites battling; and the list goes on.