FR Spell Theory: Fly - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

FR Spell Theory: Fly

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
suin_bahhar_02
Dec 19, 2008 12:32:49 How would a wizard in a Transmuters college give a lecture on explaining the inner workings of the transmutation spell involving skyward flight such as Fly? How about its relation to Levitation, Overland flight and Reverse Gravity?

Does the feather focus impart the birds universal secret of flight? Does the caster become lighter? Is Fly's benefit more like surfing on the weave or does it harness natural updraft? Does flying make you move silently?
#2
Stigger
Dec 19, 2008 14:14:49 I see it more as force originating from the spell rather than a manipulation of natural forces myself. Feathers have a fairly strong association with flight and air, so their resonance would be compatible with a spell like this, making the magic easier to cast and focus. I doubt the caster becomes lighter, or that 'natural forces' are involved in creating the lift, though I could see the case that the caster could and would be affected by natural forces once they were in flight. As to moving silently, only in terms of not producing footfalls, though clothes rustling and other normal sounds emanating from a person would still be there just as much as if they were walking.
#3
lord_karsus
Dec 19, 2008 19:53:57 -I've always envisioned a person under the effects of Fly "whooshing" when they move.
#4
Stigger
Dec 20, 2008 3:56:18 Whooshing... interesting idea there. Might have to incorporate that one, it has a certain appeal to it...

As I seem to have forgotten part of the question though, I'll get to that now. Its relation to Overland Flight would be something like a lesser form of it. Levitation, a more advanced form of it. Reverse Gravity, I don't see much of a relation at all beyond being off the ground.
#5
lord_karsus
Dec 20, 2008 11:30:37 -Well, not loud or anything. When they move, they "whoosh", as in make a fluttering sound. Like a flag on a windy day, that kind of thing.
#6
Stigger
Dec 20, 2008 11:57:36 No, that's exactly how I was envisioning it too... the flag is a good way of putting it.
#7
suin_bahhar_02
Dec 20, 2008 12:40:59 What about flying nekked? Or in a thight suit... :whistles: No cloth to go whoosh.

Aha, this might give insight into the mechanics. That whooshing is the weave actively working to uplift the caster. Transmutation strands of the weave are consumed and propulsion and sound comes out.
#8
markustay_dup
Dec 20, 2008 12:49:07 With all your... danglies... bouncing to and fro?

This thread just gave me another interesting idea - spell stacking.

It would be a Feat, I suppose. You cast a spell composed of two lower level spells, and combine the result. Ergo, if you create a rock wall and a fireball, you get a lava spell.

What made me think of this is a 'Super-sonic' version of Fly, coupled with Haste or Speed. :D

Also, would you get bugs caught in your teeth? I would assume you'd need goggles...

And a cape is a must... :P
#9
suin_bahhar_02
Dec 20, 2008 13:14:49 Goggles are cool

I'm sure to purchase a set when my PC's get to a flying speed of above 60ft a round.
Capes and wearing your underwear on the outside, not so much...

I believe your magic combo idea already exists and is featured in Complete Mage, where magical tactical feats where intoduced that need a certain series of spells to be cast to get special aditional effects. Cast a ice storm followed by a fireball to create a obscuring mist of fog, or similar effects with water and lightning, etc.
#10
markustay_dup
Dec 20, 2008 13:52:18 Figures... one of the few splats I didn't bother to buy.

Couple that with a Stoneskin and Strength spell, and a couple of Vision abilities, and your good to go.

I tried doing a 'strafing run' in someone else's game, once... but he said the Watermelon seeds I was spitting had no effect. :P
#11
wychlorne
Dec 21, 2008 0:49:36 If I were to develop a hypothesis, I would assume that, given the fact that the spell is from the school of Transmutation, it involves transmuting the individual's nature to be unaffected by gravity. The only problem with this hypothesis (hence why it isn't a theory, aside from the additional fact that it's magic and not scientifically testable) is that if the subject is then no longer affected by gravity, they should immediately stop losing inertia and the planet itself would continue without them. Even if the individual were to continue to fly at maximum speed after the planet, which, if we assumed it was the same size as Earth (40,000 km circumference), would be traveling at a speed of -- let's say -- 30 km per second around its own sun in order to maintain the seasons and siderial years that have been established. Quite quickly the maximum flying speed of 10 ft./second (60 ft. per round) would not be enough to keep up with the speed of the planet itself.

And we know the individual would lose inertia because, even though they are no longer affected by gravity, they can't render themselves entirely unaffected by resistance from other matter in their path, otherwise they'd also be immune to bolts, swords, and magic; and this is just a flight spell.

This is assuming that rendering the person immune to gravity doesn't cause his particles to dissipate from his physical form.

In short, if we're to assume that physics still applies in spite of the presence of magic, then my hypothesis is shot.
#12
markustay_dup
Dec 21, 2008 10:17:37 I would say its a form of telekinesis - you can levitate, and also push yourself around. You're basically using your own mental concentraion to lift yourself and move about in a limited manner.

Thats why I'm a proponent of Pathfinder's Flying Skill - without it, you're just doing some fancy mobile levitating.

or in the words of Woody - "Falling with style". :D
#13
lord_karsus
Dec 21, 2008 11:01:03
It would be a Feat, I suppose. You cast a spell composed of two lower level spells, and combine the result. Ergo, if you create a rock wall and a fireball, you get a lava spell.

-An interesting idea.
#14
markustay_dup
Dec 21, 2008 12:03:29 Thanks.

I'd call it Simulcasting, but we already have a RW thing for that. :P

Basically, you slap together two 3rd level spells and create a better 6th level spell with the result (applying the effects of both, with only a single casting).

I suppose an 'Improved' version of the Feat would lower the resulting spell level by one, so that two 3rd level spells would combine to form a 5th level spell, ect..

Defininately falls within the Realms of 'Metamagic'.

Edit: Once again, a thread got the old wheels' a'turnin - I'm considering a section about 'Holistic casting' as an eastern-Version of Metamagic for the Netbook.
#15
lord_karsus
Dec 21, 2008 12:09:03 -Twin Spell would be the closest thing, but that's casting two spells at the same time, not "layering" them. Were it a Metamagic Feat, "Layer Spell", Twin Spell would certainly be a prerequisite.
#16
Stigger
Dec 21, 2008 12:50:17 It's stuff like this that makes me much more fond of M:tA's magic system...

Though as to the Layer Spell idea, I could see some justification with Quicken Spell and possibly Delay Spell.
#17
markustay_dup
Dec 21, 2008 13:16:43 Well, its most useful application would be to apply meta-magic feats to a spell in advance, but you'd still have to watch your spell levels - you'd be able to 'layer' spell-effects and meta-magic Feats (so three 3rd levels spells would be a 9th level sell, presumably - unless you had the Improved Layering Feat).

And of course, that opens the door for Greater Improved Layering, wherein you get to reduce the spell level of EACH spell applied in the new formula.

.... I think I just invented the 'Adaptive Mage'.

Something like this would make the magic system more flexible like Mt:A, without having to create a new system form scratch. It does require more thought on the DM's part, though, but I don't mind that aspect - I think doing things 'on the fly' makes for a funner game.
#18
Stigger
Dec 21, 2008 15:39:28 Improved Metamagic feats should work as well... once you're at epic levels anyway. A few class features do it earlier I think, but its been a while and I'm not sure if I'm remembering those correctly.
#19
lord_karsus
Dec 22, 2008 13:36:56 -The Incantrix has a few "Sudden Metamagic" abilities, and, then there's the various Sudden Metamagic feats from Complete Mage.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 suin_bahhar_02 Dec 19, 2008 12:32:49	How would a wizard in a Transmuters college give a lecture on explaining the inner workings of the transmutation spell involving skyward flight such as Fly? How about its relation to Levitation, Overland flight and Reverse Gravity? Does the feather focus impart the birds universal secret of flight? Does the caster become lighter? Is Fly's benefit more like surfing on the weave or does it harness natural updraft? Does flying make you move silently?
#2 Stigger Dec 19, 2008 14:14:49	I see it more as force originating from the spell rather than a manipulation of natural forces myself. Feathers have a fairly strong association with flight and air, so their resonance would be compatible with a spell like this, making the magic easier to cast and focus. I doubt the caster becomes lighter, or that 'natural forces' are involved in creating the lift, though I could see the case that the caster could and would be affected by natural forces once they were in flight. As to moving silently, only in terms of not producing footfalls, though clothes rustling and other normal sounds emanating from a person would still be there just as much as if they were walking.
#3 lord_karsus Dec 19, 2008 19:53:57	-I've always envisioned a person under the effects of Fly "whooshing" when they move.
#4 Stigger Dec 20, 2008 3:56:18	Whooshing... interesting idea there. Might have to incorporate that one, it has a certain appeal to it... As I seem to have forgotten part of the question though, I'll get to that now. Its relation to Overland Flight would be something like a lesser form of it. Levitation, a more advanced form of it. Reverse Gravity, I don't see much of a relation at all beyond being off the ground.
#5 lord_karsus Dec 20, 2008 11:30:37	-Well, not loud or anything. When they move, they "whoosh", as in make a fluttering sound. Like a flag on a windy day, that kind of thing.
#6 Stigger Dec 20, 2008 11:57:36	No, that's exactly how I was envisioning it too... the flag is a good way of putting it.
#7 suin_bahhar_02 Dec 20, 2008 12:40:59	What about flying nekked? Or in a thight suit... :whistles: No cloth to go whoosh. Aha, this might give insight into the mechanics. That whooshing is the weave actively working to uplift the caster. Transmutation strands of the weave are consumed and propulsion and sound comes out.
#8 markustay_dup Dec 20, 2008 12:49:07	With all your... danglies... bouncing to and fro? This thread just gave me another interesting idea - spell stacking. It would be a Feat, I suppose. You cast a spell composed of two lower level spells, and combine the result. Ergo, if you create a rock wall and a fireball, you get a lava spell. What made me think of this is a 'Super-sonic' version of Fly, coupled with Haste or Speed. :D Also, would you get bugs caught in your teeth? I would assume you'd need goggles... And a cape is a must... :P
#9 suin_bahhar_02 Dec 20, 2008 13:14:49	Goggles are cool I'm sure to purchase a set when my PC's get to a flying speed of above 60ft a round. Capes and wearing your underwear on the outside, not so much... I believe your magic combo idea already exists and is featured in Complete Mage, where magical tactical feats where intoduced that need a certain series of spells to be cast to get special aditional effects. Cast a ice storm followed by a fireball to create a obscuring mist of fog, or similar effects with water and lightning, etc.
#10 markustay_dup Dec 20, 2008 13:52:18	Figures... one of the few splats I didn't bother to buy. Couple that with a Stoneskin and Strength spell, and a couple of Vision abilities, and your good to go. I tried doing a 'strafing run' in someone else's game, once... but he said the Watermelon seeds I was spitting had no effect. :P
#11 wychlorne Dec 21, 2008 0:49:36	If I were to develop a hypothesis, I would assume that, given the fact that the spell is from the school of Transmutation, it involves transmuting the individual's nature to be unaffected by gravity. The only problem with this hypothesis (hence why it isn't a theory, aside from the additional fact that it's magic and not scientifically testable) is that if the subject is then no longer affected by gravity, they should immediately stop losing inertia and the planet itself would continue without them. Even if the individual were to continue to fly at maximum speed after the planet, which, if we assumed it was the same size as Earth (40,000 km circumference), would be traveling at a speed of -- let's say -- 30 km per second around its own sun in order to maintain the seasons and siderial years that have been established. Quite quickly the maximum flying speed of 10 ft./second (60 ft. per round) would not be enough to keep up with the speed of the planet itself. And we know the individual would lose inertia because, even though they are no longer affected by gravity, they can't render themselves entirely unaffected by resistance from other matter in their path, otherwise they'd also be immune to bolts, swords, and magic; and this is just a flight spell. This is assuming that rendering the person immune to gravity doesn't cause his particles to dissipate from his physical form. In short, if we're to assume that physics still applies in spite of the presence of magic, then my hypothesis is shot.
#12 markustay_dup Dec 21, 2008 10:17:37	I would say its a form of telekinesis - you can levitate, and also push yourself around. You're basically using your own mental concentraion to lift yourself and move about in a limited manner. Thats why I'm a proponent of Pathfinder's Flying Skill - without it, you're just doing some fancy mobile levitating. or in the words of Woody - "Falling with style". :D
#13 lord_karsus Dec 21, 2008 11:01:03	It would be a Feat, I suppose. You cast a spell composed of two lower level spells, and combine the result. Ergo, if you create a rock wall and a fireball, you get a lava spell. -An interesting idea.
#14 markustay_dup Dec 21, 2008 12:03:29	Thanks. I'd call it Simulcasting, but we already have a RW thing for that. :P Basically, you slap together two 3rd level spells and create a better 6th level spell with the result (applying the effects of both, with only a single casting). I suppose an 'Improved' version of the Feat would lower the resulting spell level by one, so that two 3rd level spells would combine to form a 5th level spell, ect.. Defininately falls within the Realms of 'Metamagic'. Edit: Once again, a thread got the old wheels' a'turnin - I'm considering a section about 'Holistic casting' as an eastern-Version of Metamagic for the Netbook.
#15 lord_karsus Dec 21, 2008 12:09:03	-Twin Spell would be the closest thing, but that's casting two spells at the same time, not "layering" them. Were it a Metamagic Feat, "Layer Spell", Twin Spell would certainly be a prerequisite.
#16 Stigger Dec 21, 2008 12:50:17	It's stuff like this that makes me much more fond of M:tA's magic system... Though as to the Layer Spell idea, I could see some justification with Quicken Spell and possibly Delay Spell.
#17 markustay_dup Dec 21, 2008 13:16:43	Well, its most useful application would be to apply meta-magic feats to a spell in advance, but you'd still have to watch your spell levels - you'd be able to 'layer' spell-effects and meta-magic Feats (so three 3rd levels spells would be a 9th level sell, presumably - unless you had the Improved Layering Feat). And of course, that opens the door for Greater Improved Layering, wherein you get to reduce the spell level of EACH spell applied in the new formula. .... I think I just invented the 'Adaptive Mage'. Something like this would make the magic system more flexible like Mt:A, without having to create a new system form scratch. It does require more thought on the DM's part, though, but I don't mind that aspect - I think doing things 'on the fly' makes for a funner game.
#18 Stigger Dec 21, 2008 15:39:28	Improved Metamagic feats should work as well... once you're at epic levels anyway. A few class features do it earlier I think, but its been a while and I'm not sure if I'm remembering those correctly.
#19 lord_karsus Dec 22, 2008 13:36:56	-The Incantrix has a few "Sudden Metamagic" abilities, and, then there's the various Sudden Metamagic feats from Complete Mage.