Well, one reference in GG, but only for an NPC who came from a village near to the Frozen Forest.
Off topic, but the dwarves and elf high mages in the Novularond thing kinda retcons when Ulutiu is supposed to have died, doesn't it? Were the mountains above water? Were they on land then?
Note: I added an 'N' to the name of the Sunrise mountains, because there already is another range named that in Thay.
Its a bit different then the way it was on the 2e map, but they squeezed the region so small I couldn't really represent it the same way.
Thanks, Markus.
You're pretty free to make something up on this one, I think.
I feel like i have a pretty good handle on realmslore, or did before they threw it all in the trash, but you never know when you miss something here or there.
I've moved the Mountain range further north, to coincide better with the older version, although I kept the forest long and narrow running the range's length. I also shifted the mountains east, and rotated them a bit more, so they act as a natural barrier to the Great Glacier.
Homebrew Lore:
The 'Sunrisen' Mountains are so named because in ancient times, during the early days of Netheril, the Great Glacier was still expanding, albeit very slowly. In those days, soon after the time of Seventon, the primary god of those people was Amaunator. Seeing the growing civilization of the Netherease, and wishing for 'his people' to prosper (and hence, spread his religion), the god Amaunator expended a great deal of power and raised the land in front of the encroaching Glacier, stopping it from progressing any further toward the newly formed Kingdom of Netheril.
And so, the 'Sunrisen' Mountains were born. :D
I like the idea, but supposedly the glacier doesn't even exist until -2550DR, which is long after Seventon, in the middle of the Silver Age. By the time of Ulutiu's death, Iolaum enclave has been in the air for about 400 years! I think it would make more sense if Ulutiu died during the fall of Ostoria or something, but AGHoTR has spoken...
According to Giantcraft, Ulutiu died by the hand of Annam. Friezes are carved in the walls of the lost Giantish Temple of Hotûn-Shul by Illsenstad, second son of Obadai, the father of Stone Giants (and son of Annam), depicting the funeral barge of Ulutiu and the sinking of his amulet.
Unless that giant (Illsenstad) managed to somehow live for 25,000 years, there is no way he could have carved a scene depicting something that supposedly happened in -2550 DR.
I was also thinking that regardless of when the glacier forms, that area might have been under ice prior to the founding of netheril anyway, since the entirety of the area north of the narrow sea was until the Netherese figured out how to do climate control, right? So maybe the reason that area's not under ice too has to do with lingering Netherese weather magic? Or subterranean lava flows? Or maybe the designers couldn't explain it and that's why they chopped it off the map ten years ago. Whatever the reason, I was always fascinated by that area since i first started getting into the realms in the early 90s. Frozen forests, big lone mountains, proximity to glaciers, zhentil keep, lots of other crazy stuff.
Ed Greenwood has told me (over at CK) that the Great Ice Sea does indeed connect to the Sea of Moving Ice, but the way is choked with ice in the best of times, and frozen solid the rest.
Now, if you look at this lovely (canon) map drawn by Karen Fonstad, you can clearly see that everything does indeed connect to the North pole (bear in mind that distances are highly innacurate this far north - the great Glacier isn't nearly as large as it appears on a flat map).
Only problem with that is that the 3e World Map in the FRCS contradicts this, and shows water WELL above the regions we are familiar with (probably because it is so hard to depict such northern latitudes accurately on a flat map)
Thats why in the notes I made for tha pic on my DeviatArt page, I made mention of the fact that the 'Endless Sea' is just that - an inland Sea.
I'd also hazard to guess that Map is in the modern (1e/2e) era, and the Polar Icecap didn't exist at some point in the distant past. I would further assume that it has been melting (just like in the RW) due to global warming - ALL Glaciers have been receeding since the start of 1e (Vassa itself is only a couple of hundred years old, having been exposed by the melting).
I blame the Sundering for the original 'Ice Age' that created the Polar Cap, and the world has only slowly started to reverse the negative effects of that dramatic climactic shift in the last couple millenia.
Also: As an add to my last post, I was thinking that both scenarios can be reconciled regarding Ulutiu - the first time he was 'slain', he was merely comatose (he is a god, after all), and he was sent to the bottom of the Northern Sea with his amulet. In -2550 DR, he was 'released' somehow from his suspended animation, and left Toril for good... but while leaving his necklace - now a part of the Realms - fell from him and plunged back into the ice, once again to sink to the bottom, this time by itself.
Since the Ice has been receeding (canon) for quite some time, it stands to reason that in 4e the map actually does look very much as it does in the 3e FRCS.
It should also indicate a rise in sea level... but the designers have brilliantly (?!) allowed for that with the crack in the world, which has counter-acted the rise in sea level by dumping a large portion of the new water into the Underdark.
Between these two events, one can place the coastlines wherever one wants in 4e. ;)
Campaign Elements:
Also be sure to reference the articles about the Frost Giant Kingdom that once ruled over the North. There is a series of articles Here at WotC about it. Interesting stuff you ay be able to use, including those Ice Genies (Quorrash) and the Guugons (Ice Demons). There was also a large Gnoll Kingdom in the Tortured land in the distant past, and Frozen Flin**** is the only city left partially intact from that.
Given the 4E giant retcon, who's to say any of it (Jhotun) ever happened? Urgggh.
But as for the sea level, I guess the only reply 4e might offer is the return of the narrow sea in northen netheril (highmelt lake, now) and the shadow sea (what was the hidden sea back in 2e arcane age.) But the Shadow Sea was there in the 1370s, right? Bah.
So, while many places may indeed have differing coastlines due to the water both receeding and rising, and the amount of humongous storms, tsunamis, and earthquakes that rocked the world during the Spellplague, other places - such as Cormyr - may have come out in the end fairly close to what the once were.
Now that doesn't mean that the water didn't receed, leaving many ports high-and-dry. What it does do is leave us with an explanation (Global Warming) of how the water-level may have returned to something closer to 3e after a century in certain areas (like Cormyr).
I think I like that even better, because now it explains how both Suzail and Marsember are still right on the coast, even though the water-level dropped 50 feet! Thats no 50' out, mind you... thats 50' DOWN! In a deep-water harbor that would matter some-what, but in a very shallow harborage like Marsember, the water may have receeded a mile away!
So now, with the Great Glacier and other lesser-glaciers all running off into the Moonsea (which is why that body is fresh water), we can have our cake and eat it too - only the cities we want to be affected are no longer on the coast in 4e.
Campaign Elements:
Also be sure to reference the articles about the Frost Giant Kingdom that once ruled over the North. There is a series of articles Here at WotC about it. Interesting stuff you ay be able to use, including those Ice Genies (Quorrash) and the Guugons (Ice Demons). There was also a large Gnoll Kingdom in the Tortured land in the distant past, and Frozen Flin**** is the only city left partially intact from that.
Now thats just funny as hell!
WotC's forum filter have deleted one of their own canon names! :D
I find the FR maps in violation of the COC, and therefore, FR should be banned entirely from the WotC boards. :P
I find the FR maps in violation of the COC, and therefore, FR shhould be banned entirely from the WotC boards. :P
-I'll bring this up with those who be. Having worked so hard for everything, I am now ready to begin tearing things down.
