I want to open up the floor to discuss what we'd like to see happen as a result of the Spellplague's aftermath. This is likely going to be one of the most controversial discussions, and as a result I want to do it first and get it out of the way.
Here is how things should work: Make a clear proposal of what you want to happen. Divide things in some clear manner so that they don't blend together and can be talked about individually. If you want to make a proposal on the fate of Azuth, as well as the fate of Velsharoon, these should clearly be marked as separate proposals.
The main goal here is to reach a common consensus. As a result, your proposals should be fairly lite for example: "I am proposing that Velsharoon die because..." If the voting works in favor of the proposal, then Velsharoon dies. The details of his death can be worked out later and handled separately in its own thread. What we want to do here, right now, is get an overall view of what things are going to look like moving forward in the aftermath of the Spellplague.
We will judge things based on an up or down vote. When someone makes a proposal, you should vote in favor or against it. You should also explain why you are voting the way you are - even if it is trivial. To use Velsharoon as an example, "I am voting in favor of Meldread's proposal to kill off Velsharoon because I've always found him an uninteresting deity of undeath."
To become fanon, a proposal must receive a minimum of five votes in favor of it (assuming that more than five people participate). If there are more than five votes for and against something, then the majority opinion prevails. Voting will remain open for one week on each proposal. After one week all votes are locked in and tallied. You may at any time during that week change your vote to support a counter proposal.
Since we are taking everything from the Grand History of the Realms as canon, I want to make clear exactly what the GHotR says:
- Cyric (aided by Shar) murders Mystra in Dweomerheart. Therefore, Mystra 3.0 is dead.
- Dweomerheart disintegrates, and thus no longer exists.
- Savras is destroyed as a result of the destruction of Dweomerheart, and thus is dead as well.
- Azuth and Velsharoon are hurled into the Astral Plane. As a result, they're both technically alive.
- The Weave has technically, at least in its 3E incarnation, been "destroyed" as "magic burst from its bonds."
- Thousands of arcanists are driven insane or are destroyed.
- The very substance of the world becomes mutable beneath veils of azure fire that can be seen in both the day and night.
- Only greater deities prove strong enough to maintain their divine realms. "Many" planes are shifted or destroyed.
- Sune, Tyr, and Lathander imprison Cyric within his home plane of the Supreme Throne. His imprisonment is meant to last one thousand years.
Please be considerate, and realize that this thread is not designed to debate issues, but rather state opinion and make proposals. If you disagree with something, vote against it and explain why, and then ideally offer a counter proposal.
The floor is now open! Hopefully this will go as intended...
- The Shadow Weave is absorbed into a newly restored Weave. I am proposing this because, if the Weave is restored as an independent construct, the need for the Shadow Weave is eliminated. Obviously, this is linked to the first proposal, but is separate in nature.
- The Shade Enclave sustains massive damage and many die as a result of "magic bursting the bonds of the Weave." I am proposing this because I want to open the door for some major reforms to returned Netheril.
- I am proposing that we incorporate the following aspects of the Spellplague into the fanon: spellscars, plaguelands, and plaguetouched creatures. I am proposing this because it is one of the things I liked about the changes to the canon Realms. Note: Support for the plaguelands is not support for THE Plaguelands in the canon Realms. Rather, it is supporting the notion that there are small areas which are still highly "mutable" even after the worst of the Spellplague has passed.
- I am proposing that Velsharoon be responsible for allowing Cyric into Dweomerheart, betraying Mystra, Azuth, and Savras. I am proposing this because I feel that it fits his character well, and provides the most realistic and plausible example of how Cyric got as far as he did.
- I am proposing that Selûne gain the portfolio of magic. I am proposing this because I feel that it is a bit cheesy to return Mystra in one incarnation or another. Since the moon and magic are often linked in real life mythologies, Mystryl was the daughter of Selûne and Shar, and Mystra was a close ally and friend to Selûne - I feel that this is a good fit. This also enhances the Selûne vs Shar conflict, and I feel that Mystra was smart enough to plan ahead should her death ever take place.
- I am proposing that Selûne be elevated to the status of Greater Deity in the aftermath of the Spellplague. I am proposing this because I believe it is essential to put the focus on a Selûne vs Shar conflict rather than a Shar vs Mystra conflict. I also believe this is necessary should my proposal regarding granting Selûne the portfolio of magic be accepted.
- I am proposing that Azuth survive and travel to the House of Knowledge to serve Oghma. In addition, I believe he should receive the portfolio of spells from Mystra. I am proposing this because it just makes sense as one of his titles has always been "Lord of Spells."
- If my proposal regarding the Weave is accepted, I propose that Azuth be given the portfolio "steward of the Weave." In addition, I believe he should be elevated from lesser deity to intermediate deity. In his role as steward he'd merely be the Weave's maintainer and guardian - rather than having direct control over it. I am proposing this because it rounds out the last of Mystra's portfolios, and fits Azuth best of all. Should Selûne be voted to have the portfolio of magic, she becomes the more creative side of magic "the Art" as it is often referred too. This is contrasted against Azuth who could treat magic more as a science rather than an Art, something to be studied and used, rather than to be revered. This also deals with the issues that constantly arose with a good aligned deity of the Weave - Azuth is Lawful Neutral.
- I am proposing that Tyr learn the truth of Cyric's manipulations of himself and Helm. Tyr then finds himself guilty of murdering Helm, and voluntarily passes his portfolio of justice to Torm. Tyr then fades from Toril and ceases to be a deity. I am proposing this as a potential "fix" for the Tyr / Helm / Tymora debacle which is outlined in GHotR.
- I am proposing that Torm be elevated to the status of Greater Deity in the aftermath of the Spellplague, and that he receive Helm's former portfolios. This would make Torm the deity of: duty, loyalty, obedience, guardians, protection, and if Tyr is voted off the island - also justice. I am proposing this because I believe these things fit well with Torm.
I would like to address the quote below, Meldread, from your original post above.
"Since we are taking everything from the Grand History of the Realms as canon, I want to make clear exactly what the GHotR says:
- Cyric (aided by Shar) murders Mystra in Dweomerheart. Therefore, Mystra 3.0 is dead.
I think that another interpretation of that text is equally valid. That Mystra died by Cyric's hand; and is alive, if low profile, in the Year of the Ageless One.
- Dweomerheart disintegrates, and thus no longer exists.
Totally.
- Savras is destroyed as a result of the destruction of Dweomerheart, and thus is dead as well.
Sure.
- Azuth and Velsharoon are hurled into the Astral Plane. As a result, they're both technically alive.
Azuth and Velsharoon are hurled into the Astral. But we also know from others sources where he landed...
- The Weave has technically, at least in its 3E incarnation, been "destroyed" as "magic burst from its bonds."
The Weave,
sheared and riven by malice and void,
plagued the One Land where once
it gave us lives filled with silver from the sky.
Oh Goddess who Weaves, She who Mends what is torn,
Return, awaken,
Enlighten us,
Be reborn
="The inscription within a sundered phylactery belonging to Huerin Halacanter, Dweomerkeeper, in the Year of the Wrathful Eye"=
- Thousands of arcanists are driven insane or are destroyed.
(I made this much worse in my campaign. The devestation in Cormyr was *ridiculous*!)
- The very substance of the world becomes mutable beneath veils of azure fire that can be seen in both the day and night.
(In my campaign, from wildspace as well, but we're talking about the GHotR, sorry... I digress.
- Only greater deities prove strong enough to maintain their divine realms. "Many" planes are shifted or destroyed.
Crisis on Infinite (Abeir)Torils, YOWZA!
($$$)
..........
?
- Sune, Tyr, and Lathander imprison Cyric within his home plane of the Supreme Throne. His imprisonment is meant to last one thousand years.
Good riddance, dog-son piece of garbage.
With the modifications described above, I could get behind your interpretation of The Grand History of the Realms.
I would also like to adress the propositions you make in series, and offer my own thoughts and interpretations. Granted, these are based on my limited knowledge of canon, and I am away from my books at the moment. However, I have been a fan of the Forgotten Realms for a long time, and I have always found it to be a fascinating hobby.
- The Weave is ultimately restored as an independent construct. I am proposing this because I believe the Weave is an essential thematic element of the Realms, but I want it to be independent of a deity because I feel that its nature is too unbalancing. Note: The proposal does not mean a deity cannot be the 'goddess of the Weave' in the same way that Umberlee is 'goddess of the sea.'
I disagree with this. The Weave is not, in my opinion, an essential thematic element of the Realms. I don't think it is mentioned at all in the Old Grey Box... except maybe in the Mystra deity description. Now I'm curious so I'm going to dig it out...
Nope. Not even once. There are quite a number of makers of fine rugs and garments, but no reference to the Weave. Mystra is described as a goddess of magical balance.
But that was in the ancient days of The Year of the Prince...old school! Almost 30 years before the Spellplague...
And there was Forgotten Realms shaking events waaayyy before the Spellplague. Avatar Crisis (On Infinite (Abeir)Torils)? The Godswalk? Yeah, that was a classic Realms-shaker...But speaking of the Avatar Crisis...
Midnight... she had a different way of doing things. She wanted to do 'Good' with magic, she wanted to enable people to use the magic to make their lives better; "Magic of Faerun" I think goes into that quite a bit, as I recall.
Here's some speculation on my part: Midnight did something that Mystra did not do; Midnight made it easy to use magic. Again. Who can blame her, it's a nice thing to do. Not since the time of Netheril, when *all* Netherese had minor mystic talent had the Goddess of Magic so favored a civilization! By The Year of Wild Magic, Faerun is swarming with magic! Portal networks, gem-bombs, (dwarven)runecaster, circle weavers... and that was just in the first 3e non-Monster Manual supplement. By the end of 3e, Greenwood inadvertently gave us the Pun-pun; hopefully locked in a flawless sarruhk stronghold on some far-flung plane!
So, what if the Weave was really more of a Midnight thing? A metaphysical concept before, perhaps, but a full-on 'independent construct' under Midnight?
I can totally get behind the idea of the Weave being an independent construct, however, I think that that construct has been destroyed, as described in canon. (And it is for Ed of the Greenwood to tell us how it is rewoven, if that is to be.)
-The Shadow Weave is absorbed into a newly restored Weave. I am proposing this because, if the Weave is restored as an independent construct, the need for the Shadow Weave is eliminated. Obviously, this is linked to the first proposal, but is separate in nature.
As your first tw proposals are linked, so are mine, though contrastingly. The Shadow Weave fell when the Weave did, as the Shadow of the Weave was dependent upon it. It's kinda' canon.
-I am proposing that Velsharoon be responsible for allowing Cyric into Dweomerheart, betraying Mystra, Azuth, and Savras. I am proposing this because I feel that it fits his character well, and provides the most realistic and plausible example of how Cyric got as far as he did.
No way!
(Here's where a 'fanon' project could really break down, but check it out.)
Shar had a secret. That secret belonged to Cyric; Shar knows all darkest secrets. It is her domain, and the gods are instrumental to their domains. This secret also belonged to Mask; Shar knows all the darkest secrets.
Cyric did not sunder Godsbane. In fact, he kept it. The God of Murder with a god killing blade! He would be a fool to sunder such a weapon. Mask's divinity was not then sundered, but fractured. And so, when Mask met oblivion, he had a back-up plan.
But Shar knew.
She always knows.
Shar then put her plan to purpose. Literally thousands of agents, more than even all the scribes of Candlekeep could write the histories of, were put into play. In the end, Shar held Godsbane, released Mask, and the God of Burglars, having again robbed death, stole into Dweomerheart. And lead the God of Murder to his task.
But your idea is awesome, too. It's just this is a pretty epic thing, and the legends surrunding it are probably more important than the details. Yeah, it'd be cool to have an official account, but... I think I like mine the best.
(I mean, Kezef was there, and Mask had to "weave transitive energies of shadow", and my players had not read Paul Kemp's Shadow War trilogy and so when they learned about Mask and Shar's "relationship" in game their jaws it the floor... good stuff.)
I am proposing that Selûne gain the portfolio of magic. I am proposing this because I feel that it is a bit cheesy to return Mystra in one incarnation or another. Since the moon and magic are often linked in real life mythologies, Mystryl was the daughter of Selûne and Shar, and Mystra was a close ally and friend to Selûne - I feel that this is a good fit. This also enhances the Selûne vs Shar conflict, and I feel that Mystra was smart enough to plan ahead should her death ever take place.
Mystra's back. I mean, whatever-whatever, but... She's back. And in a couple months, we'll have a better idea of how and why and what and who and when.
All the rest, totally. During the Wailing Years however, I think most Faerunians are pretty hesitant to use magic. And since there's no Weave to tend, we're back to the balance thing. "The Wailing Years" .pdf that came out a while back described it as all "Iron Kingdoms"... so Selune would have a pretty is job... Not a lot of customers.
I am proposing that Selûne be elevated to the status of Greater Deity in the aftermath of the Spellplague. I am proposing this because I believe it is essential to put the focus on a Selûne vs Shar conflict rather than a Shar vs Mystra conflict. I also believe this is necessary should my proposal regarding granting Selûne the portfolio of magic be accepted.
I like Selune, and think of her as a greater power anyway. She should be on par with Shar, in my opinion. Selune is the Radiant, the Positive the Yang to Shar's Yin in the super-cosmic-begining of Abeir-Toril. All the lycanthrope stuff is lame-o.
(Selunarra, on the other hand...)
I am proposing that Azuth survive and travel to the House of Knowledge to serve Oghma. In addition, I believe he should receive the portfolio of spells from Mystra. I am proposing this because it just makes sense as one of his titles has always been "Lord of Spells."
Devil food. Nom-nom. Indeed, Asmodeus was quite likely one of those thousands set to purpose by Shar. A high ranking one. I love Asmodeus, and he has been a villain in my games for a long time.
Nom-nom
- I am proposing that Tyr learn the truth of Cyric's manipulations of himself and Helm. Tyr then finds himself guilty of murdering Helm, and voluntarily passes his portfolio of justice to Torm. Tyr then fades from Toril and ceases to be a deity. I am proposing this as a potential "fix" for the Tyr / Helm / Tymora debacle which is outlined in GHotR.
- I am proposing that Torm be elevated to the status of Greater Deity in the aftermath of the Spellplague, and that he receive Helm's former portfolios. This would make Torm the deity of: duty, loyalty, obedience, guardians, protection, and if Tyr is voted off the island - also justice. I am proposing this because I believe these things fit well with Torm.
Can you go into this in some detail? Does Tyr then kill Helm in cold-blood? (Tyr's too Lawful for that...) And Tyr would totally sanction death in an honorable duel, so... I don't know.
I think the metaphor for this one is chance, 'fate', or what have you... tempting... no. Maybe it's not my favorite entry in the GHotR...
Well, these are my thoughts. A collaboration certainly seems like fun, but guess I'm not really sure to what end it promotes, you know?
That being said, it wasn't put forward for a vote. No one vetoed or spoke out against the proposal, so I made an assumption. Certainly, if there is disagreement it should be put to a vote. I'm not sure how much, if any, it alters your points. However, if we're shooting for a one hundred year time jump like 4E it certainly alters some of my proposals.
As a result, I believe it should be made clear:
- I am proposing that the fanon Realms "start" in the year 1390 DR, five years after the Spellplague. I am proposing this because it keeps us close to 3E source material, which makes things easier to work with. I also believe it includes a larger number of people from the community, as the biggest complaint about 4E - aside from the changes - was the time jump. A one hundred year time jump seems to be a deal breaker for many.
- I am proposing that only Forgotten Realms source books may be used as historical canon for the Fanon Realms, with the Grand History of the Realms being the final authority on all historical events. Therefore, events that take place in the novels are not considered fanon unless they appear in one of the source books - but those events may be altered based upon what is written in the source book. (As an example: Since Eilistraee's death is not detailed in GHotR or any other source book, those events are not considered fanon.) I am proposing this because I think this is the best and most logical approach to getting everyone on the same page. If someone wants an event in the novels to take place, they can always detail what happened and propose it to be voted on.
-I am proposing that the fanon Realms "start" in the year 1390 DR, five years after the Spellplague. I am proposing this because it keeps us close to 3E source material, which makes things easier to work with. I also believe it includes a larger number of people from the community, as the biggest complaint about 4E - aside from the changes - was the time jump. A one hundred year time jump seems to be a deal breaker for many.
I would never levy such disdain towards the 4e Realms design team. The "time jump", as you refer to it, is what it is. For those actually living on Toril, no "time jump" occured at all. A compelling 'fanon' project connects the dots during that 100 years when we 'don't know' what occured. Re-writing the fine contributions of the design team is a non-starter, for me.
-I am proposing that only Forgotten Realms source books may be used as historical canon for the Fanon Realms, with the Grand History of the Realms being the final authority on all historical events. Therefore, events that take place in the novels are not considered fanon unless they appear in one of the source books - but those events may be altered based upon what is written in the source book. (As an example: Since Eilistraee's death is not detailed in GHotR or any other source book, those events are not considered fanon.) I am proposing this because I think this is the best and most logical approach to getting everyone on the same page. If someone wants an event in the novels to take place, they can always detail what happened and propose it to be voted on.
And yet, some of the best sources are fan generated. GHotR among that number. In addition, especially in later years, the FR novel-line was re-invogorated with some really great talent.
I disagree that this a 'best and most logical choice'; indeed, it feels arbitrary at best, preference-based at worst.
In short, I categorically disagree with your interpretation of canon, 'fanon' or whatever, and just what compromises a compelling project. I believe it is completely inapropriate to attempt a 're-write' of the Forgotten Realms canon; the hard work of the design team should be appreciated, in my opinion. For better or for worse.
The FRP is completely separate from WotC and the designers; they're free to contribute anything that they'd like, but even if they did they'd be on the same footing as everyone else. That was the intention behind the FRP, to give everyone an equal voice in how things progressed, and to decentralize things to such a point that no one is considered 'the leader' or 'in charge'.
The problem I foresee when it comes to remaining close to established canon is manifold. However, at its core the central issue is this: Anyone can propose anything, and people will vote on it. If the majority approve, then it's brought into the fanon. This means that anyone has the potential to outright undermine anything any WotC designer or novel author puts forth.
If Ed brings back Mystra (or some incarnation of her) in his novels, and someone doesn't like that so they propose she die again immediately - if the majority agree, that's exactly what happens. Mystra comes back and then dies again immediately.
However, it's not just the fact that some people will most definitely set out to attempt to shape the Realms to their personal taste (indeed, that's the point of the project). It's the fact that events could take place in the fanon that make it impossible for future - non-released, published, or hinted at events that are put forward in the canon - completely and totally incompatible with fanon.
Just as an example, someone could propose that one group or another conquers and seizes control of Luskan. This theoretical group now rules the city. However, I believe Erik Scott de Bie is working on a novel that involves the city of Luskan as described in the canon. What happens if Erik's novel is set BEFORE the fanon established group takes control of the city? This obviously creates a continuity issue.
The only way to solve a continuity issue like this is a retcon. As a result, someone's "version" of Luskan must be viewed as canonical / fanonical whereas the other version is not. Should we then eliminate fan work - despite being approved by the majority of fans participating in the project - in favor of Erik's? While I believe whatever Erik comes out with would be considerably high quality and good, he is in no way bound by what we do here, and his work isn't approved by the majority. Why should his work - or the work of anyone else - be considered more valid than someone else's work?
The way I proposed to fix many of these problems, while respecting the work of -EVERYONE-, was to create the shards. In essence each shard is an independent version of the Realms. There would be three primary types - Canonical, Fanonical, and Personal. The Canonical Shard would be administered by WotC, the Fanonical Shard would be administered by the fans, and the Personal Shards would be where each groups campaign takes place. In this way no one's work is overridden, it's just happening elsewhere.
This provides the maximum amount of latitude to everyone involved. If you want to radically alter your Realms for your game, then you can do so and you'd still be gaming in the Realms - just on a shard where a different group of historical events took place. If you share your version of the Realms with others, and they like it - then they can incorporate aspects of it into their campaigns / personal shard.
It is my strong opinion that people should take what they like from the fanon, the canon, and personal campaigns and discard the things that they do not. You could even have one campaign on one shard, and then start a new campaign on another, or even establish multi-shard campaigns in which the group or others travel between multiple separate shards.
The shards concept accomplishes what WotC set out to do with the 100 year time jump and the Abier concept, but instead of having a 'one world canon to rule them all' policy it gives the maximum amount of freedom to everyone involved.
Under the shard concept the Fanon is an alternate world that is controlled and built by the fans. It is not a canonical world, and is thus not bound by canon. The canon world still exists, simply on another shard. Therefore nothing is overwritten and there is no conflict. A group could even travel between them if they'd like.
I feel that the shard concept deals with the issue you bring up Brace, and to attempt to do it another way would create a whole host of problems that would fundamentally undermine everything we'd attempt to do.
However, ultimately everything is left up to the community. I'm still waiting for others to weigh in.
I understand that by taking the 1390 DR route, the Fanon Shard will naturally, at various points, be at odds with what information has been described to us, but truth be told, it doesn't strike me as a bad thing if it means we're gaining alternatives and new, original thoughts on various subjects. Quite the contrary - I personally would find it refreshing to consider various ideas not seen in the canonical Realms. The very design of the Shards Project seemed to me one that would likely serve efficiently, and so I find myself in agreement with Meldread in terms of the nature of the project and its structure.
While I appreciate the efforts of the design team, and would find their own input intriguing (were it to come to that)
I can not agree with this more. And what really bugs me is the design team doesnt seem willing to share anything! I mean ya I guess its kinda cool that 4e Realms is kinda vague and leaves it up to us to do what we want, but at the same time any time a question is asked like what happend to Finder!? We ALWAYS get sorry NDA as a response, which means there are planes for Finder, but if we go with the 4e philosophy and just make it up ourselves, then later a novel comes out that completelt trashes what we got planned, which was part of the problem people had in the past, I think they should be a little more forthcoming, ya know, like instead of just saying sorry cant tell you, that should say well wait a few months we got something coming up soon that will explain everything. That would be nice.
Inevitably, some will view the divergent direction of the Fanonical Realms Project as questionable. Despite its counter-canon representation of the Realms, it is a good compromise of the many directions this project could take. If we dedicated our efforts solely on the pre-4E Realms, this section of the community just further bunkered down into the edition divide. If we only filled in the century between the Spellplague and the 4E Realms or built on the existing 4E setting, we risk having the fanon Realm presenting itself as a redundant and even half-contrary offering to the more widely supported canon Realms. Some elements would then be divergent but some would coincide. There will be no distinct difference and probably just as much confusion amongst participants. The project would have its toes stepped on by the greater influence of official canon. The 4E Realms still have DDI articles, there is still the LFR. While the 4E Realms are not getting as much attention as we want, they do have the support of Wizards and the LFR community.
The old Realms have the support of older fans, the new Realms have the current backing of the company. What the FRP tries to do is bridge the gap between the 3e and 4E Realms. It acknowledges and will try to address some of the perceived faults of the old Realms. I imagine it will try to implement some recent design philosophies, but at the same time hews closer to the old Realms. It is a compromise, and all compromises are seldom perfect.
Hopefully the FRP will show that the community no matter their individual stance can find and accept elements from each edition of the Realms. The fanon Realms progresses the timeline through and past the Spellplague itself, but falls short of the century distance to maximize its utility for all parties. While most of the development will not be a direct drop-and-play fit for either 3e or 4E setting, its hybrid element can hopefully be of use to either period of the Realms. The timeline is close enough for 3e games to absorb the FRP developments into their setting without much effort, while 4E games could easily extend the foundations of FRP ideas a hundred years into their time.
There will always be the risk of this becoming the limited personal pet-project of a handful of fan developers. That is the inherent risk of any fan-project. If everyone feared that all the time, nothing would ever get done. In truth, there were some fan projects I found intriguing but I did not agree with their direction. I let them go about their business, offering support when I saw elements I liked, but seldom interjected on parts that did nothing for me. Better that likeminded groups feel inspired enough to work on something that attempts to be inclusive than nothing at all or worst trudge along on something where they must follow established current canon above all. That latter attitude earned the setting a certain reputation that persists to this day.
In reply to Meldread’s initial proposals. I think a week may be too short to get interested participants to answer in full, especially on more complex or controversial topics. Some may want a bit of time to go over proposed material and even compose counter-proposals. Personally I’ve hit a bit of a lull in real-life activities and it still took me days to get the chance to reply. Then again, I may just work at a slower pace. Certainly these votes cannot be kept open forever, but I have no suggestions for a better method to determine the decision window.
Anyway,
- The Weave as an independent construct. [Concur] The true nature of the new Weave should be up for debate in-game by characters (whether it is a philosophy of magic, an intangible field, an unseen physical network feeding “mana” into people, etc.). The Weave may not have been an essential component of magic in the early Realms, but it has taken on more prominence in later editions. For all intents and purposes it has become the major source of magic for the Realms, just as other settings (D&D or otherwise) have their particulars on magic. It also serves the thematic purpose of some elements I wish to propose later.
- Shadow Weave absorbed into the Weave. [Concur] This may even allow the more dangerous properties of the Shadow Weave to be accessed in a new Weave compatible form with the advantages, but different non-Shar-ified drawbacks (for later discussion).
- Damage to Shade Enclave. [Concur] The Shades can handle a bit of thrashing, they may even emerge from it more potent than before. Returned Netheril should not be a one and done deal. A millennia old magical superpower should have more complexity reverberating down even through the centuries after its fall. So tentatively concur for the reforms of Netheril depending on what they are.
- Spellscars, plaguelands, plaguetouched. [Concur] Those could serve many purposes even in a Realms affected by a less cataclysmic Spellplague. Depending on the direction of the fanon, I would like to see greater mystery develop around these.
- Velsharoon’s betrayal. [Concur, partially] I agree with Velsharoon playing a vital part in the plan. The opportunity of Mystra’s death, Dweomerheart’s disintegration, and all the rest is too great an opportunity to pass up as an engine of change for the pantheon, beyond just Mystra and subordinates or even Shar. Some proposals following.
- Selune as Goddess of Magic. [Concur, partially] For reasons similar to above.
- Selune as Greater Goddess. [Concur] For reasons stated in proposal.
- Azuth as Lord of Spells in the House of Knowledge. [Concur] It is a logical progression of his position. He is useful as a Boccob-like god of spells and book-learned wizards.
- Azuth and the Weave [Concur, tentatively] Proposal is a logical fit. I have a semi-counter, more of an addition to propose shortly.
- Tyr (Helm, Tymora, Cyric) [Indecisive] The proposal has elements I like. It quickly allows Tyr to wash his hand of this and just exit the Realms, but I would rather Tyr get a decent send off. Call me sentimental, call me bias, but Tyr and the Triad were some of the first aspects that drew me into the Realms. I want to do his justice (yeah, this paragraph has more than one of these). This was one of the developments that set me off the new Realms, this sudden, weak sauce, bullet in the leg to fix a gunshot wound in the arm sort of deal. Proposal following.
- Torm in place of Tyr. [Concur] By whatever path Tyr leaves the Realms and the how the whole debacle is resolved, I agree that Torm is a good face for Lawful Goodness in the Realms. He should take over for Tyr. It was a good development proposed by a fan on these boards to the design team shortly before the launch of the 4E Realms, it remains a good idea.
- The Weave is ultimately restored as an independent construct. I am proposing this because I believe the Weave is an essential thematic element of the Realms, but I want it to be independent of a deity because I feel that its nature is too unbalancing. Note: The proposal does not mean a deity cannot be the 'goddess of the Weave' in the same way that Umberlee is 'goddess of the sea.'
I strongly agree. I feel that the Weave, when respected as its own entity and not simply Mystra's (or any magic deity's) plaything, is a beneficial element to the Realms. I also support the ambiguity of the Weave in the eyes of mortals, who can question and ponder the matter, and draw strikingly different conclusions as to its functions and nature.
- The Shadow Weave is absorbed into a newly restored Weave. I am proposing this because, if the Weave is restored as an independent construct, the need for the Shadow Weave is eliminated. Obviously, this is linked to the first proposal, but is separate in nature.
I agree. The Shadow Weave has a "legacy" of sorts; it would be fitting if, by being absorbed into the new Weave, it still manages to occasionally manifest as something of an anomaly. Plus, much as an independent Weave could be accessed without bending the knee to Mystra or another god of magic, the "processed" form of the Shadow Weave would eliminate Shar's stranglehold.
- The Shade Enclave sustains massive damage and many die as a result of "magic bursting the bonds of the Weave." I am proposing this because I want to open the door for some major reforms to returned Netheril.
I agree, though perhaps not as strongly as the first two. I do agree with the logic of it, for the idea that Shade Enclave only seemed to gain strength following the collapse of both the Weave and its Shadow counterpart always struck me as odd. For an empire whose very identity was founded on magic, I would think there would have been some bigger repercussions than what there were. Even if the Shadow Weave had usurped the Weave's place in large part, there should've been greater backlash. I'll be interested to see in what direction this goes, however; I feel that Netheril is best off remaining a superpower, but not in the same situation of supremacy it now finds itself.
- I am proposing that we incorporate the following aspects of the Spellplague into the fanon: spellscars, plaguelands, and plaguetouched creatures. I am proposing this because it is one of the things I liked about the changes to the canon Realms. Note: Support for the plaguelands is not support for THE Plaguelands in the canon Realms. Rather, it is supporting the notion that there are small areas which are still highly "mutable" even after the worst of the Spellplague has passed.
I agree. Of the three, I personally find the plaguelands have the most potential for my own concepts and pieces, but I can also recognize the value of spellscars and plaguetouched creatures. The former, by their very "abnormal" nature, can open doors to conflicts between scarred and untouched, and the former are just all-around interesting when brainstorming and describing particular threats to regions and towns.
- I am proposing that Velsharoon be responsible for allowing Cyric into Dweomerheart, betraying Mystra, Azuth, and Savras. I am proposing this because I feel that it fits his character well, and provides the most realistic and plausible example of how Cyric got as far as he did.
This is actually what I did in my own game when the Spellplague and 4E were introduced a few years ago, so it certainly gets the nod from me in the Fanon Project. That being said, I can understand if people dislike the idea, as a fair part of it hingers on how one interprets the nature of Velsharoon's duplicitous personality. For as sneaky and calculating a god as Velsharoon is said to be, I expect not everyone would see him as willing to stab Mystra and the others in their backs, provided he had some benefit in not doing so.
- I am proposing that Selûne gain the portfolio of magic. I am proposing this because I feel that it is a bit cheesy to return Mystra in one incarnation or another. Since the moon and magic are often linked in real life mythologies, Mystryl was the daughter of Selûne and Shar, and Mystra was a close ally and friend to Selûne - I feel that this is a good fit. This also enhances the Selûne vs Shar conflict, and I feel that Mystra was smart enough to plan ahead should her death ever take place.
I have no problems with this. It always struck me as odd that Shar was always placed on a pedestal above her sister. I can understand the symbolism behind Selune's power waxing and waning with the moon, but in truth, I only appreciate that as a figurative bit of interpretation from curious mortal minds. I also agree that Selune's relationship with Mystra would be nicely emphasized.
- I am proposing that Selûne be elevated to the status of Greater Deity in the aftermath of the Spellplague. I am proposing this because I believe it is essential to put the focus on a Selûne vs Shar conflict rather than a Shar vs Mystra conflict. I also believe this is necessary should my proposal regarding granting Selûne the portfolio of magic be accepted.
Again, it's something I did in my own game years ago, so it gets my full support. It's difficult to really believe the two ancient goddesses are on equal footing when one is acknowledged as one of the major players in the pantheon, and the other is simply her good-natured sister. Selune needs to be raised a peg to properly flesh out the Selune vs Shar feud.
- I am proposing that Azuth survive and travel to the House of Knowledge to serve Oghma. In addition, I believe he should receive the portfolio of spells from Mystra. I am proposing this because it just makes sense as one of his titles has always been "Lord of Spells."
It's an interesting idea, and one I had never really considered. Oghma would be a fitting patron, and Azuth would probably be able to exert as much an influence under him as much as he did when Mystra was alive.
- If my proposal regarding the Weave is accepted, I propose that Azuth be given the portfolio "steward of the Weave." In addition, I believe he should be elevated from lesser deity to intermediate deity. In his role as steward he'd merely be the Weave's maintainer and guardian - rather than having direct control over it. I am proposing this because it rounds out the last of Mystra's portfolios, and fits Azuth best of all. Should Selûne be voted to have the portfolio of magic, she becomes the more creative side of magic "the Art" as it is often referred too. This is contrasted against Azuth who could treat magic more as a science rather than an Art, something to be studied and used, rather than to be revered. This also deals with the issues that constantly arose with a good aligned deity of the Weave - Azuth is Lawful Neutral.
I had been wondering how "Magic" and "Spells" would be divided; this is a suitable solution. Yet again, this harmonizes with the thoughts I implemented in my own game, for Azuth represents the scientific application and study of magic and serves as the steward of magical energies. I find the contrast between Azuth's and Selune's approaches to magic a good distinction, and feel that much can be done with such a path.
- I am proposing that Tyr learn the truth of Cyric's manipulations of himself and Helm. Tyr then finds himself guilty of murdering Helm, and voluntarily passes his portfolio of justice to Torm. Tyr then fades from Toril and ceases to be a deity. I am proposing this as a potential "fix" for the Tyr / Helm / Tymora debacle which is outlined in GHotR.
And yet again - an idea I used in my own game, albeit in a modified version. It never made a lick of sense to me that Tyr and Helm would both lose their minds over Tymora, and that Tyr's decision would be to resort to violence. Although I support the idea of Tyr passing the torch and simply leaving Toril, I wouldn't be against allowing Tyr to depart via some last glaze of glory (perishing in a demonic invasion could've been heroic, yet it fell flat on its face). My main concern is the role of Torm and Ilmater in this path; I always struggled to comprehend why Ilmater and Torm would let Helm and Tyr try to kill each other rather than intervene and seek a peaceful resolution. Even if Tyr decreed that a duel was the only way to meet justice, those two should've stepped in long before it got to that point; Siamorphe, too, could've done something to dissuade either of them from fighting.
- I am proposing that Torm be elevated to the status of Greater Deity in the aftermath of the Spellplague, and that he receive Helm's former portfolios. This would make Torm the deity of: duty, loyalty, obedience, guardians, protection, and if Tyr is voted off the island - also justice. I am proposing this because I believe these things fit well with Torm.
Works well for me. Torm is a suitable heir to both gods, and when I think of Lawful Good, Torm is the one who leaps to mind.
Dark Wizard we can certainly leave it open for longer than a week. I wasn't expecting it to take this long for people to respond to my proposals... so you're definitely correct.
So far we seem to largely be in agreement with each other. The main point of contention seems to be, not that Tyr should step off the stage, but how he should do it. For me personally, I'm not too hung up on the how, I just felt that the way 4E FR handled it was just... blah.
For my part, I was simply picturing the God of justice realizing that he had been duped and judged Helm wrongly. Then, as a god of justice, he felt the need to judge himself. He'd then find himself guilty, and then enforce a punishment: banishment. That was my thinking behind the proposal, but I'm not attached to it or anything.
I'm eager to hear the proposals both of you put forward. Hopefully some others will jump in as well.
- Tyr: Rather than a blaze of glory or just leaving the Realms entirely, I’d imagine Tyr undergoing a transformation after the realization he erred in his conflict with Helm. Into what exactly, I’m not sure. Perhaps redoubling his efforts as a symbol of law and order in the Realms. A contemplative divine judge (Tyr the Hierarch?) permanently seated at the center of his divine court (literally a court)? A statue of justice with every just law in the Realms etched on his surface? Banishment seems like giving up, which is not very heroic, not lawful good. I’d rather see him as God of Justice emeritus than just burning out or quitting. A position like Jergal, the retired old mentor turned consultant for Torm.
A related issue to this is the concept of the Triad. I have no leanings either way, but it is something to think about. Does a new Triad form around Torm or does Torm opt for another organization.
- Helm: I’ll state my flat out bias, I’m a big fan of Helm, thinly disguised Heimdall though he may be. He provided a more fitting deity for the serious warrior/mercenary types than the more goodly Triad or the more unpredictable Tempus. I felt he prominently represented a necessary gray component to the Realms. There is something Realmsy about him. Might be the name, adapting a item word into a faux-germanic sounding fantasy moniker, short and to the point. Even in the ToT, in his failure as watcher, he was kept on to guard the way to the divine realms. There is something permanent seeming about him, something that says he won’t stay down. I would like to see him return, perhaps as a byproduct of Tyr shedding his position. He need not be part of Torm’s divine realm or the new Triad, just an independent badass defender and protector of whatever needs defending and protecting.
[The following are based on ideas I’ve seen on the forums before and during the transition.]
- Divine Courts: The deities are separated into divine courts. The divine courts become mini-pantheons. This is almost a given from the Grand History (Only greater deities prove strong enough to maintain their divine realms. "Many" planes are shifted or destroyed). This is useful as it provides a quick short hand for the many gods of the Realms, but without actually decreasing the number of them. The greater gods (and the greater gods from 3e will not be the same as those after the Spellplague) will emerge even more prominent, some select subordinates will be featured as necessary (likely deities already popular will remain so), and minor deities will fade to the background perhaps taking on roles similar to divine servants or saints. The demi-human pantheons could continue under this system.
Some interesting possibilities could arise from this if the courts don’t fall along expected lines. As with any rule, exceptions will seem by default more exceptional. The Weave would fall into such an exception. What if one greater deity has no court and goes about it solo? What of the few non-greater gods who don’t belong to a divine court? A divine nomad? Freelancer gods? A divine court that is a melding of several gods into one entity? Two greater gods sharing or fighting over a domain? Lesser gods squatting in the domain/court of an incompatible greater? Etc. The exact details are open and flexible.
- Mulhorandi pantheon is fully absorbed and integrated into the Faerunian pantheon. Some gods die or leave the Realms, some merge with existing deities, some Mulhorandi deities may even subsume Faerunian ones. The Mulhorandi pantheon may continue on in some form as the divine court of a Mulan deity who went mainstream, even then the divine court is a mix of Mulan and Faerunian gods. This also hints at something major happening to shake up Mulhorand and the Old Empires. Something I support and have later proposals for.
- Deities of Magic: With just Selune and Azuth, it may appear that the Realms shed Mystra for a Mystra-fied Selune and an Azuth with an address change. I’m proposing there be more than one deity of magic, several in fact. We’ve had hints of this already existing in previous Realmslore with Leira goddess of illusions, Corellon god of elven and high magic, Talos wanting to be the god of destructive magic. The deities of magic will usually be existing gods or existing mortals ascended (possibly as a sponge for some of the Chosen to remove them from mortal affairs).
I think this will help promote the Weave as a neutral entity but also as a unique boundary breaking entity. I propose the Weave divine domain/court serve as a neutral meeting place for the deities of magic (some good, some neutral, some evil). In addition to their specific type of magic, the deities of magic will also be responsible for protecting and maintaining the Weave. The Weave becomes an eternal Mage-Fair or Wizards Symposium or Congress of Magic.
[The following borrow aspects of 4E that I feel have potential in the fanon adaptation.]
- Earthmotes: They’re fun, I don’t mind them at all. Earthmotes open up interesting real estate. Not sure about the geography changes like the Sea of Fallen Stars draining into the Greatrift, Chult becoming an island or the flooding of Luiren and Lantan.
- Azuth and the infernal. This is more of an aside. What if Azuth did fall into the pits of hell but emerged with a more fiendish side. He represents the intellectual approach to magic but also the darker side of digging too deep for magic, making deals with the devil for knowledge.
- Here be Dragons: The rising prominence of some draconic deities even amongst non-draconic races. The Dragonfall War gives a good impetus for this. We saw hints of Tiamat making headway into the Old Empires. Bahamut assumed Marduk’s position in Unther. Damara had a Tiamat problem before if I remember correctly. I recall Bane having a foothold in Threskel. It seemed many Faeruning deities based partly on Sumerian/Babylonian myth converging on Unther. Between this emerging neo-Untheric pantheon and perhaps a rising Set/Sseth/Zehir as a third serpentine/draconic force could provide the shake-up for the Old Empires that resonate through the Realms.
- Amaunator returning. I’m neither here or there with this. I kind of like Lathander so I’m not sure I want Amaunator emerging out from Lathander. Amaunator was LN and god of justice. Would this be a member of Torm’s triad or something else, not sure.
- Returned Abeir. Sure it’s undeniably Ed-ish, but I’m actually neutral towards Returned Abeir itself. Maybe this is because the area seems tiny compared to what the concept implied or needed. Still, it is highly useable because there is no difference in the overall feel due to Ed’s fingerprints on the region. What I find more interesting was Ed’s comments on adapting Returned Abeir to a non-Spellplagued Realms (I’ll see if I can dig it up from Candlekeep*). In the case of the FRP, it’s both Spellplagued and not. This is a perfect fit. It also leads to the next idea.
*One of those posts can be found here: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=...
- Dawn Titans: Primordial elemental beings that the gods battled with and locked away at the beginning of history seems a far better fit for the Realms as an otherworldly threat feared by the gods themselves. The Realms takes its cues from real world mythology as much as it departs from it or runs wild with it. Even though the Dawn Titans are a retread of the Greek Titans idea, taken as an archetype it has the possibility to unleash some significant adventure potential and conflict into the setting. If we play with the concept and feature them as almost alien elemental entities that don’t belong in the current reality, they could provide a more setting appropriate emerging mega-menace than most aberrations (not that aberrations are a bad thing).
Additionally, the awakening/unleashing of these titanic entities could serve to smooth some of the vague weirdness from the transition period. They become the unidentified, unseen hand behind the moving and shaking of the setting during latter 3.5e, early 4E. What if the Weave is one barrier preventing these Titans from encroaching upon the Realms? What if their stirrings gave some of the gods the sudden surge in power to take on their rivals (unbeknownst to them)?
Ed gave a good way to incorporate the Dawn Titans of Abeir in the pre-Plague Realms. I can’t find it right now, though I remember reading it.
[All of this leads to one more idea.]
- The Weave Cosmology: Representing the cosmology as a weave, the Weave. While the Great Tree or the Great Wheel or the Astral Sea concepts are still valid, the Weave seems to fit where we are headed with this. It correlates with the Weave being the underpinning connection between everything. The gods and their divine realms are the anchor points of this web. The Weave holds everything together. It’s a step towards explaining why so much emphasis was placed on Mystra and the Weave in the past. If the Titan barrier concept mentioned above is approved, it further adds importance to the new Weave and explains why deities, even evil ones, are recruited to defend and maintain it.
- Tyr: Rather than a blaze of glory or just leaving the Realms entirely, I’d imagine Tyr undergoing a transformation after the realization he erred in his conflict with Helm. Into what exactly, I’m not sure. Perhaps redoubling his efforts as a symbol of law and order in the Realms. A contemplative divine judge (Tyr the Hierarch?) permanently seated at the center of his divine court (literally a court)? A statue of justice with every just law in the Realms etched on his surface? Banishment seems like giving up, which is not very heroic, not lawful good. I’d rather see him as God of Justice emeritus than just burning out or quitting. A position like Jergal, the retired old mentor turned consultant for Torm.
I could see him in a Jergal position easily enough. If he continues to act within the Realms, I would personally see it in such a way. Having him simply brush the dust off his shoulders and pretend like nothing happened seems to trigger a similar problem to the concept of eliminating him altogether. Whereas the latter approach might come off as too damning (and yet unfulfilling), I personally see the idea of letting him maintain a noticeable position of authority to run in quite the opposite manner - namely, that such a course is akin to a slap on the wrists, as if the god of justice himself isn't willing to bring the full weight of the law upon himself. So, if Tyr does stick around, I feel that it should be in a "retired" sense, in the same vein as Jergal - still maintaining a role and presence, but in a state much reduced than what once was, so as to allow the younger blood to assume control and usher in the future.
-A related issue to this is the concept of the Triad. I have no leanings either way, but it is something to think about. Does a new Triad form around Torm or does Torm opt for another organization.
- Helm: I’ll state my flat out bias, I’m a big fan of Helm, thinly disguised Heimdall though he may be. He provided a more fitting deity for the serious warrior/mercenary types than the more goodly Triad or the more unpredictable Tempus. I felt he prominently represented a necessary gray component to the Realms. There is something Realmsy about him. Might be the name, adapting a item word into a faux-germanic sounding fantasy moniker, short and to the point. Even in the ToT, in his failure as watcher, he was kept on to guard the way to the divine realms. There is something permanent seeming about him, something that says he won’t stay down. I would like to see him return, perhaps as a byproduct of Tyr shedding his position. He need not be part of Torm’s divine realm or the new Triad, just an independent badass defender and protector of whatever needs defending and protecting.
It's funny. Helm is my favorite deity, and the words "gray component" are exactly the reason I adored him. However, here we run across a stickler of a detail. We've agreed to go by the word of the Grand History, and if memory serves me correctly, it specifically states Helm perishes. If we work around this detail, then we open the door for people to work around anything in the Grand History. Thus, as much I'd love to see Helm survive, I don't see a way to "legally" do it, short of resurrecting him later on, or having a successor inherit his divine spark.
-- Divine Courts: The deities are separated into divine courts. The divine courts become mini-pantheons. This is almost a given from the Grand History (Only greater deities prove strong enough to maintain their divine realms. "Many" planes are shifted or destroyed). This is useful as it provides a quick short hand for the many gods of the Realms, but without actually decreasing the number of them. The greater gods (and the greater gods from 3e will not be the same as those after the Spellplague) will emerge even more prominent, some select subordinates will be featured as necessary (likely deities already popular will remain so), and minor deities will fade to the background perhaps taking on roles similar to divine servants or saints. The demi-human pantheons could continue under this system.
Some interesting possibilities could arise from this if the courts don’t fall along expected lines. As with any rule, exceptions will seem by default more exceptional. The Weave would fall into such an exception. What if one greater deity has no court and goes about it solo? What of the few non-greater gods who don’t belong to a divine court? A divine nomad? Freelancer gods? A divine court that is a melding of several gods into one entity? Two greater gods sharing or fighting over a domain? Lesser gods squatting in the domain/court of an incompatible greater? Etc. The exact details are open and flexible.
Seems interesting, particularly the concept of divine nomads. We can explore this further later, but for now, it's piqued my interest.
-- Mulhorandi pantheon is fully absorbed and integrated into the Faerunian pantheon. Some gods die or leave the Realms, some merge with existing deities, some Mulhorandi deities may even subsume Faerunian ones. The Mulhorandi pantheon may continue on in some form as the divine court of a Mulan deity who went mainstream, even then the divine court is a mix of Mulan and Faerunian gods. This also hints at something major happening to shake up Mulhorand and the Old Empires. Something I support and have later proposals for.
I wouldn't mind seeing Set and Nepththys survive, but I could take or leave the rest. Though there are several ways to see this merger happen, I would actually support the demise of Horus-Re and several other gods, which would encourage the survivors, now leaderless and on-edge, to form alliances with the other deities. Assuming Set survives, I would be interested in seeing him spread his will across Faerun proper. In particular, I have a fondness for the mental image of Set leading his faithful and combating Shade's attempts to restore verdant life to the Anauroch. If the Mulhorandi emissaries travel westwards, they could even open dialogues with the Bedine tribes, and try to enlist them in combating Shade's influence and keeping the Anauroch an unforgiving desert. I have no idea how much that interferes with your ideas, but I'm just throwing it out there.
- Deities of Magic: With just Selune and Azuth, it may appear that the Realms shed Mystra for a Mystra-fied Selune and an Azuth with an address change. I’m proposing there be more than one deity of magic, several in fact. We’ve had hints of this already existing in previous Realmslore with Leira goddess of illusions, Corellon god of elven and high magic, Talos wanting to be the god of destructive magic. The deities of magic will usually be existing gods or existing mortals ascended (possibly as a sponge for some of the Chosen to remove them from mortal affairs).
I think this will help promote the Weave as a neutral entity but also as a unique boundary breaking entity. I propose the Weave divine domain/court serve as a neutral meeting place for the deities of magic (some good, some neutral, some evil). In addition to their specific type of magic, the deities of magic will also be responsible for protecting and maintaining the Weave. The Weave becomes an eternal Mage-Fair or Wizards Symposium or Congress of Magic.
When considering the Weave as a neutral entity, the idea that there would be multiple gods running around seems a reasonable one. My question is how Azuth, as steward of the Weave, factors into this scenario. Assuming we go with Azuth as the embodiment of "scientific" spellcraft and Selune as the "creative" side (an idea for which I'm game), I feel like any other claims to magic become less solid (maybe it's just me, though). Though I'm not against the idea, I'd be interested to see the number of deities that could justify some claim to magic. Shar can claim shadow magic, Umberlee can claim water magic, Ilmater can claim magic that reinforces and heals, etc. To sum it up, I guess for me it's a matter of "actual portfolio" vs "perceived affinity". I feel that the former would be small, but that the latter is what's going to draw the crowd.
-- Earthmotes: They’re fun, I don’t mind them at all. Earthmotes open up interesting real estate. Not sure about the geography changes like the Sea of Fallen Stars draining into the Greatrift, Chult becoming an island or the flooding of Luiren and Lantan.
Earthmotes were never something I minded. I have a big problem with the flooding of Luiren and Lantan, and I'm not too keen on the Sea of Fallen Stars being channeled. Chult becoming an island is something I can tolerate. However, that's just me; I'll leave it up to the others to see what we can do with these.
-- Azuth and the infernal. This is more of an aside. What if Azuth did fall into the pits of hell but emerged with a more fiendish side. He represents the intellectual approach to magic but also the darker side of digging too deep for magic, making deals with the devil for knowledge.
It's an interesting idea, and I would be interested in pursuing it, so long as Azuth would retain his LN identity. I could get behind Azuth studying infernal secrets and scouring hell's layers for magical knowledge, but at the same time, I don't want him losing his soul for it. I feel that if Azuth were to fall to hell, then use both wisdom and might to escape, then all would be well; in the process, he would learn of what hell has to offer, and would become not only more knowledgeable, but more morally ambiguous in the process. What I would prefer to avoid is having Azuth lose his conscience altogether, but rather, have him become a little more stone-hearted to the affairs of mortals.
It actually reminds me a bit of how I handled Azuth in my own game. I had the ravages of the Spellplague harden his heart; he saw first-hand that the "benevolent" approach to magic had failed the world, so he turned to the study of magic as a power that could ensure that order and stability prevailed, even if it meant the people had to suffer from time to time. It wasn't that Azuth was deaf to their pleas; he just knew that he couldn't afford to let the careless abuse the Art, thus he began to place a greater emphasis on rigorous studies and practice, so that only the truly worthy and those who sought to use magic sensibly could prevail. This didn't include those who just wanted to learn a couple healing spells and forsake the rest of what the Art had to offer; those "dabblers" earned Azuth's contempt, and his church came to reflect this attitude, condemning those whose ambitions were small and who squandered their potential so as to benefit themselves and perhaps a few others in the short term. Rather, those who would spend years devoted to the pursuit of the craft earned his appreciation, and came to be regarded as the superior type of spellcaster.
-- Here be Dragons: The rising prominence of some draconic deities even amongst non-draconic races. The Dragonfall War gives a good impetus for this. We saw hints of Tiamat making headway into the Old Empires. Bahamut assumed Marduk’s position in Unther. Damara had a Tiamat problem before if I remember correctly. I recall Bane having a foothold in Threskel. It seemed many Faeruning deities based partly on Sumerian/Babylonian myth converging on Unther. Between this emerging neo-Untheric pantheon and perhaps a rising Set/Sseth/Zehir as a third serpentine/draconic force could provide the shake-up for the Old Empires that resonate through the Realms.
Pretty interesting idea. I remember that in my own game, I had Tymanther and the dragonborn territories plummet on only a section of Unther. When the dust settled, the Untherites found themselves face-to-face with dragonborn intent on overruning the rest of the land. As war broke out, it was Bahamut's church that attempted to put an end to the conflict, drawing on support from the church of Hoar to negotiate between both parties.
Bane's and Tiamat's churches, however, forged a pact to break the peace treaty, for Bane sought to exert greater control over the shades-of-gray Hoar, and Tiamat wanted to stand in the way of her brother once more; both, of course, were also interested in the political shake-up that Tymanther's appearance had caused. Ultimately, the peace treaty gave way to a series of ongoing minor skirmishes, until an uneasy truce was finally reached. Towards the end, Bahamut's church began to pursue the Tiamatan agents that had encouraged dissent, and a shadow war began just as fighting between Unther and Tymanther subsided. Bane, meanwhile, had brought Hoar into his fold, but had failed to truly convert Hoar to his LE doctrine, settling for the fact that Torm and his allies had failed to win over the god of revenge.
-- Amaunator returning. I’m neither here or there with this. I kind of like Lathander so I’m not sure I want Amaunator emerging out from Lathander. Amaunator was LN and god of justice. Would this be a member of Torm’s triad or something else, not sure.
Truth be told, I don't much care for Amaunator. He just feels stale compared to Lathander. That being said, if Amaunator were to be incorporated, I could easily see him fitting in with Torm's crowd. If we decide that a new triad is not in order, Amaunator could even rise to equal footing with Torm, given that Lathander was just as powerful, if not more so, than Tyr (but even that is assuming we go with the Lathander-transforms-into-Amaunator root).
- Just how chiseled in stone do we want to make what happened to the deities?
My personal preference has always been to shift the focus away from the direct intervention of the gods themselves, and more toward their churches and clergy... who frequently disagree about important matters.
For example, what if we sort of just hinted: "This group believes this is what happened to Tyr, whereas this group believes this has happened instead. This group over here - who worship Tyr - are hostile toward the Church of Torm, who believe they've attempted to usurp their deities rightful role in the heavens."
- That brings me to this point... what is Ao doing?
Ao is mysteriously silent and yet it seems like if there was a time for him to do something it'd be during the Spellplague. Now, admittedly, I'm no huge fan of Ao, but his existence is canon and thus cannot be denied. He's obviously not sitting back and twiddling his thumbs while the whole of Realmspace begins to fall apart.
I remember, vaguely, in the early discussions about 4E before we knew what was going to happen that one of the designers (I believe it was Rich Baker), saying something along the lines of 'The Time of Troubles was ultimately leading up to this point...'
Ao cast down the gods during the Time of Troubles because they were not tending to the needs of their followers, instead focusing on their own personal desires. They were beginning to act out of accordance with their portfolios.
What would Ao do to the Gods as a result of causing the Spellplague, which is a million times worse than stealing some useless tablets of fate?
- If we decide to run with the idea of the Mulhorandi pantheon being absorbed into the Faerûnian pantheon, then that gives us the opportunity to solve some disputes - such as Hoar's dispute with Anhur. Set is also more-or-less a member of the Faerûnian Pantheon already.
- Touching off the primordials idea... something like that is something that could certainly be expanded into the Realms easily.
The Netherese creation myth with Shar and Selûne, has Selûne reaching into the Plane of Fire to kindle the flames of the sun. This easily opens the door for all the elemental deities to become primordials. However, other deities fit easily as well such as Ghaunadaur.
I'll touch on and give my opinion directly to things later, right now I'm hoping for some other people to jump in...
An interesting development from this is asking how much disagreement exists between certain sects and how much of the overall clergy is involved. If the divide is deep enough and the believer number large enough, we do have an official schism. That has greater implications beyond just religions orders disagreeing on minor details or local interpretation. We should be careful not to imply the difference is too great if we do not mean for there to be an official schism between Tyrist (possibly active and resurgent) and the dominant Tormites.
Taking your example, different interpretations of what happened to Tyr would be interesting and not affect the setting too much. Whether Tyr left the Realms, retired from active godhood, morphed into a marble slab of laws, or slumbers somewhere does not matter for the overall setting. He is removed from the active pantheon, all the lore about this is just flavor. He is not granting spells, he has no clergy, his worship is no spreading aside from being a supplemental myth to Torm’s active worship, etc. However, having active Tyrist factions resenting Torm usurping their patron is a different matter. If they are in sufficient numbers, that does create a noticeable effect on the Realms. If they are supported by an active Tyr, that does effect the setting and the outcome of Tyr’s own judgement. This is a touch and go issue, each situation is unique. How much disagreement is too much disagreement is a fine line to navigate for each clergy conflict.
I’m unsure how we want to handle (if we want to at all) a version of alignment relativism like Eberron.
As for Ao, I would imagine he’s doing nothing, continuing to stay as a myth, like the designers and many of the fans would like. I think the point about the ToT leading up to this point is valid. Ao could have set up the ToT as a precursor to this, knowing full well those events would culminate in this mother of all RSEs. He could also know the contingencies and plans of all the deities including the Weave backup plan. This all could be his intent all along. He made one appearance and all the events settled into place. Ao’s interactions don’t matter as much as settling the FRP into it’s own status quo.
This is where varying myths concept could come into play. Take for instance the following:
- Ao made a decree to all the deities and they obeyed without question given their experiences during the Time of Troubles.
- The Weave has ascended and usurped Ao’s place. The Spellplague was actually the Weave’s sudden and violent emergence as an overgod. Mystra died because the Weave had no need of that form any more. The current situation with the gods is enforced by the Weave, who’s will and mastery over the magics of the world and the power of the gods is absolute.
- Ao was a manifestation of the Weave all along. The ToT was an elaborate plot to shed its deific shell (aka Mystra) and rearrange the Realms cosmos.
- Ao silently empowered the conspirators to kill Mystra. Ao, again silently, re-established the Weave as a neutral construct so that a Mystra-like being would never threaten his control of Realmspace again.
Any or all of these myths could be valid, or none of them are true. All of them do not affect the day to day happenings of the Realms. None of them affect even the long-term plans of the gods. Whatever Ao did or did not do, we don’t know, the gods may not even know. All we do know is one or two versions of the overall story of the pantheon. We (even as DMs, even as fan-designers) are left with only the fact that some things about the FRP setting currently work how they work. This was probably how Ao should have been used if at all. This is probably how most of the deities should have been portrayed all these years.
- Just how chiseled in stone do we want to make what happened to the deities?
I'm all for having the mortals bicker and discuss the "truth", wherever those conflicting ideas might take them. Although my commentary might've suggested I'm for one single, indisputable reality, I'd actually prefer to have the individual sects and factions hold separate and (perhaps staggeringly) different viewpoints. Consider where I lean to be what I would consider to be a perspective that would be especially vocalized amongst the factions.
- That brings me to this point... what is Ao doing? ...
What would Ao do to the Gods as a result of causing the Spellplague, which is a million times worse than stealing some useless tablets of fate?
Personally, I always thought Ao was best left in the background, tending to his own designs, that not even the gods themselves can truly comprehend. I admit, this might be seen as a cop-out, but I'm personally not too worried about resolving this issue (at least, not immediately).
- If we decide to run with the idea of the Mulhorandi pantheon being absorbed into the Faerûnian pantheon, then that gives us the opportunity to solve some disputes - such as Hoar's dispute with Anhur. Set is also more-or-less a member of the Faerûnian Pantheon already.
I actually wouldn't mind seeing the resolution (or process leading up to such) of the conflict between Hoar and Anhur drawing the attention of Bane and Torm (or another suitable deity). I feel that the conflict itself could play a role in the collapse of the Mulhorandi pantheon, something along the lines of Hoar (with Bane's backing) making a move while the Mulhorandi deities recover from the death of Horus-Re (or another prominent deity). Anhur, taken aback, moves forth to settle the score with Hoar. In the process, Bane (or another deity) could work to expedite the breakdown of that pantheon's structure, using Anhur's distraction to strike a blow against one of his kin in an attempt to gain a foothold with the Mulhorandi people. Torm, detecting Bane's scheme, then moves to extend aid to the good deities of the Mulhorandi pantheon, perhaps even recruiting Anhur into his fold once the absorption process begins in full form.
I'll keep giving things a go in my head, and see what clicks.
I was thinking of having Tyr play Cyric's prison guard or warden as his Penence.
THIS. (That is, if this idea is up for a vote, I vote in favor of it.)
--Would an uber-divine, blow your mind vision sent by Tyr to all his faithful to commence holy war on Cyricists in order to stamp out Cyric's worship and keep the faithful hidden and few in number (and thus their god weak during his imprisonment) be in order?
- I propose in the aftermath of the Spellplague that the deities become more distant to their followers. Their homeplanes become inaccessible to teleportation magic. They no longer send "true" avatars into the Prime Material. Their dream visions become more difficult to interpret. It should be noted that this is not a move into Eberron territory: the gods still clearly exist. It's just that things have become more muddled and open to mortal interpretation.
Regarding these things there are two primary schools of thought:
The first believes that Mystra died on her homeplane, resulting in the Spellplague, and in the aftermath of that deities have taken extreme precautions to prevent such an event from happening to them. They speculate that perhaps Cyric or Shar discovered a flaw or loophole in planar design that allowed other deities to enter undetected in their full power. To close this loophole required the deities to completely seal off their divine realm, which had the additional repercussions listed. That view is most often held by wizards and planar travelers.
The second view, which one might call the more mystical view, believes that the gods powers were somehow linked to the Weave and with the changes to the Weave the gods are weaker. The more dire and serious who hold the second view might even add that it might be possible that the gods themselves - their very influence over the world - is fading entirely.
The real reason isn't known, and the deities, if they themselves can tell their followers are refusing to do so. The inevitable result is that faiths have become more fractious after the Spellplague, with the faithful taking different - sometimes wildly different - points of view.
The advantage of both for a DM and for the FRP is that it allows new things to easily be added by additional people. What if you want to have a cult devoted to something, but don't really have a deity that fits? Well create a splinter sect from the faith closest to your intentions, and create the cult you need to fit your designs. For the FRP it means that by not setting things in stone, new people can add their own ideas and interpretations later.
Since we seem to be in agreement, I want to make it a formal proposal (plus add a few more details).
- I propose in the aftermath of the Spellplague that the deities become more distant to their followers. Their homeplanes become inaccessible to teleportation magic. They no longer send "true" avatars into the Prime Material. Their dream visions become more difficult to interpret. It should be noted that this is not a move into Eberron territory: the gods still clearly exist. It's just that things have become more muddled and open to mortal interpretation.
Regarding these things there are two primary schools of thought:
The first believes that Mystra died on her homeplane, resulting in the Spellplague, and in the aftermath of that deities have taken extreme precautions to prevent such an event from happening to them. They speculate that perhaps Cyric or Shar discovered a flaw or loophole in planar design that allowed other deities to enter undetected in their full power. To close this loophole required the deities to completely seal off their divine realm, which had the additional repercussions listed. That few is most often held by wizards and planar travelers.
The second view, which one might call the more mystical view, believes that the gods powers were somehow linked to the Weave and with the changes to the Weave the gods are weaker. The more dire and serious who hold the second view might even add that it might be possible that the gods themselves - their very influence over the world - is fading entirely.
The real reason isn't known, and the deities, if they themselves can tell their followers are refusing to do so - for a number of reasons. The inevitable result is that faiths have become more fractious after the Spellplague, with the faithful taking different - sometimes wildly different - points of view.
Since we seem to be in agreement, I want to make it a formal proposal (plus add a few more details).
- I propose in the aftermath of the Spellplague that the deities become more distant to their followers. Their homeplanes become inaccessible to teleportation magic. They no longer send "true" avatars into the Prime Material. Their dream visions become more difficult to interpret. It should be noted that this is not a move into Eberron territory: the gods still clearly exist. It's just that things have become more muddled and open to mortal interpretation.
Regarding these things there are two primary schools of thought:
The first believes that Mystra died on her homeplane, resulting in the Spellplague, and in the aftermath of that deities have taken extreme precautions to prevent such an event from happening to them. They speculate that perhaps Cyric or Shar discovered a flaw or loophole in planar design that allowed other deities to enter undetected in their full power. To close this loophole required the deities to completely seal off their divine realm, which had the additional repercussions listed. That view is most often held by wizards and planar travelers.
The second view, which one might call the more mystical view, believes that the gods powers were somehow linked to the Weave and with the changes to the Weave the gods are weaker. The more dire and serious who hold the second view might even add that it might be possible that the gods themselves - their very influence over the world - is fading entirely.
The real reason isn't known, and the deities, if they themselves can tell their followers are refusing to do so. The inevitable result is that faiths have become more fractious after the Spellplague, with the faithful taking different - sometimes wildly different - points of view.
The advantage of both for a DM and for the FRP is that it allows new things to easily be added by additional people. What if you want to have a cult devoted to something, but don't really have a deity that fits? Well create a splinter sect from the faith closest to your intentions, and create the cult you need to fit your designs. For the FRP it means that by not setting things in stone, new people can add their own ideas and interpretations later.
- I propose in the aftermath of the Spellplague that the deities become more distant to their followers. Their homeplanes become inaccessible to teleportation magic.
Some questions:
- How does this ban on teleportation magic/interplanar travel affect summoning spells?
- Did I miss it, or was there a proposal on what edition of the D&D game rules would be the default for this Shard?
DM: "No one knows the truth, but there are many different opinions. Here are some popular beliefs that your character would have heard of -"
Player: "No need. I'm going to ask Bob the Wizard to teleport us to {insert deities plane} so we can find out for certain, and then tell everyone the truth."
DM: "..."
Now that just turns into -
Player: "What? We can't teleport to {insert plane}? Okay. I'll just summon a divine servitor native to that plane and ask!"
DM: "..."
I hate creating situations in which DM's have to say to players: "No, you can't do that." I'd rather create situations in which something doesn't work, but players are required to draw their own conclusions as to why.
So, I'll amend my proposal:
- I propose in the aftermath of the Spellplague that the deities become more distant to their followers. The gods themselves can no longer be located on their homeplanes, though their servitors continue to run the planes and proclaim that they can sense their divine patrons existence. They no longer send "true" avatars into the Prime Material. Their dream visions become more difficult to interpret. It should be noted that this is not a move into Eberron territory: the gods still clearly exist. It's just that things have become more muddled and open to interpretation.
This way, even the divine servitors themselves don't know the truth. You can still have a planar game, summon normally, etc. You can even do a Planescape game, and have these changes reflected in Sigil.
-----
Regarding your point with editions, there has been no proposal made. However, my preference is that we remain neutral in regard to rulesets. Anyone who wants to create stats for stuff should feel free - whether it is 3E, E6, Pathfinder, 4E, Rollmaster, GURPS, Burning Wheel, whatever. That's my opinion, as I believe it leaves the door open to the most people possible.
I agree with Meldread's statements regarding edition neutrality. Even if we're discussing the 3E-4E transition period and what have you, I feel we should stick to the middle path as much as possible, in terms of rulesets. The more accessible the project is, the more ideas will be contributed (at least, that's my hope).
On Remote Gods, I'm in agreement with the idea. I also like that the reason is muddled. I don't think it has to be stated that gods don't appear or can't be pinpointed or divine realms are inaccessible. (BTW, what about spells like commune or stronger variants?)
I think the key point is to emphasis whatever exploits and interactions of the gods players and characters hear about, those remain for all intents and purposes myths. The characters are the here and now. The gods may be watching, they may even influence things, but the characters are the heart of the tale. An emphasis on divine agents and servitors (as opposed to Chosen) over direct avatars and divine commandments, should be enough to keep this separation. Still, I don't want to cut off those latter tools entirely, the Realms has used both effectively and ineffectively, so it depends on the group and DM.
On Tyr as prison warden (and the whole imprisoned Cyric issue). This idea has potential. However, I don't quite see the reason to imprison Cyric with such heavy security above and beyond the original means (attention not given to Shar or other evil deities/entities of great power). There's just something hohum about Cyric and his actions. He was the insane god of murder and given the opportunity he carried out his portfolio's intent by killing a powerful deity he had a grudge against. I might not like this action or its outcome, but it seems extreme to give it this much additional attention without any pay off.
I never found Cyric an interesting deity. I understand what concept he is supposed to fill, but he seems a poor example of that archetype, accomplishing his goals more by way of editorial edict. This is going to sound crazy coming from someone who doesn't like Cyric, but I suggest post-Spellplague Cyric gained power. This helps justifies his original imprisonment and if the idea of Tyr guarding him is approved, that as well.
I propose Cyric, by unknown reasons (perhaps due to proximity of the collapse of the Weave), lost more of his human persona. He has gained power from an unspecified source. He now embodies a significant threat to all the Realms and even the gods. The exact nature of this power and these changes are left vague, but I would not be opposed to suggestions or hints of the influence of Shar, or something tying into the Titans concept, or even the Far Realms.
The intent of the imprisonment seemed to turn Cyric into a Tharizidun figure or a menace of such awesome potence he had to be locked away. I say give it to him, but at the same time, lose more of the old Cyric. If the official lore wants to spin Cyric as the Nyarlathotep of the Realms, let him act the part.
The flip side of this, if the divergent sects are to be encouraged, imagine one with the heresy that Cyric is the secret savior and guardian of the Realms. He is the Faerunian pantheon's primary agent against a extra-planar incursion breaking through to Realmspace, the entry point centered on his domain, the Supreme Throne. He is the pantheon's dirty bastard warrior against horrors from beyond this reality.
I was thinking of having Tyr play Cyric's prison guard or warden as his Penence.
I too love this idea. It might seem to the majority of people/followers on Faerûn that Tyr went off into a blaze of Glory but in truth, he's just playing Bailiff to Cyric. An Idea I definitly vote for!!
I'm also in support of some people believing that Tyr has become Cyric's prison warden as penance. I'm also getting a good idea of a group dedicated to that belief.
Personally, I have my notes for my personal Shard, and I'm thinking of getting started on my ideas for the Fanon Shard. All I need is some free time to get it all typed out and ready to share, but I should get the chance within a few days (to at least get started, that this).
Here in this thread, I'm waiting to see if anyone has anything else to add idea-wise.
Kara-Tur: What the hell happened there? Obviously something bad went down with all the Shou immigrants coming into Faerun, but what? Perhaps they exchanged with bits of Abeir as well? Maybe theres a big time Dragon War goin on there now between Abeirian Dragons and Dragonborn vs the oriental Dragons and Dragonborn/half-Dragons. I dunno its a thought.
and on a similar note what about Zakahara? (did I spell that right?) Are they even still around? did they get Abeirilized too? And we know Maztica got shifted but what about the whole rest of the continent it was a part of? Was it just Maztica or the whole land mass?
And regarding the Spellplague, would that have just affected Arcane users? Or Everybody? Druids too? Shamans? I mean they used spirit magic right? Or what about Warlocks? They get powers from some entity and im sure it would be possible to that entity to grant powers with out the Weave, right? Or Sorcerers, they had inborn powers, magic was in their blood, shouldnt they still be able to cast spells?
Like I said I dont really have anything to add, just questions, but this is the kinda stuff I wanna know about, ya know? Stuff that they just dont mention and/or gloss over.
That being said; I do like the concept of Dragonborn. Perhaps there are rumors that are spreading around Faerûn about a Dragon Emperor who has ascended to godhood conquering all of Kara-Tur. According to the rumors ages ago, when dragons ruled the world, they did battle with one of their own who sought to usurp the power of their gods and rule all dragonkin as a divine emperor. Unable to defeat him, they united and imprisoned him deep below the Yehimal Mountains in an eternal sleep. When the Spellplague happened the wards and magics that imprisoned this dragon allowed it to become free.
This dragon then began laying siege to Shou Lung. Amid the chaos of the Spellplague many turned to serve the dragon out of fear. According to the rumor its favored servants undergo a ritual which transforms them from humanoids into Dragonborn, and it is these Dragonborn that led its armies, its religion, and its empire. All of Kara-Tur is at war with constant rebellions and chaos from one end to the other as the Dragon Emperor and its Dragonborn attempt to enslave all peoples and unite Kara-Tur under a single banner. Should that ever happen, they say, the Dragon Emperor would turn its eyes to Faerûn, and it and all of its people would be doomed.
That's how I'd play it. Shou and other races come from Kara-Tur into Faerûn as refugees. They carry with them tales of chaos, dragon gods, rebellion, people being transformed into dragon-like monsters, etc. Occasionally, you'd see a Dragonborn coming from Kara-Tur as well.
I'd use the lore for Dragonborn similar to what was discussed in Races of the Dragon. In a nutshell, all Dragonborn were once humans (or some other sentient humanoid), who has undergone a ritual transformation into their current form. However, in doing this much of their former existence has been wiped from their memories. All Dragonborn would be current or former servants of a Dragon Emperor that has conquered much of Shou Lung.
Other than that, I'd leave details pretty sketchy.
As for divine magic... according to the 3E FRCS the Weave was the conduit for divine and arcane magic. So in my Realms at least, I said yes - all magic that utilized the Weave was effected (both arcane and divine). Though in my Realms all divine spellcasters lost their powers as deities immediately ceased using the Weave. Deities in my Realms now channel divine power to their clergy directly, but there are MUCH MUCH MUCH fewer priests than in the past that can use divine power. Most are mundane, though they have the capability and knowledge to use divine rituals.
The reason I gave for the gods using the Weave to channel divine power to their clergies was because it wasn't very taxing to do. It was simple and easy. After the Spellplague, now that they have to do it directly, mortals with divine power are viewed more like Chosen as they actually hold a bit of their deities divinity within them. (That is the source of their power.) Doing this is taxing and draining on the deity, and thus only a select handful actually can use divine power.
Aldrick over on the Candlekeep.com forums is working on a writeup for Amn that's all post-Spellplague. It's a mix of known and homebrew stuff, but relies on some firm information from The Hooded One (one of the original players in Ed Greenwood's home Realms game for the last 30 years).
Here's a LINK. The post in question is about 8 down in the thread.
It's good stuff and worthy of consideration for this project.
I'm Aldrick over at Candlekeep. I had to re-register because it said my password for my former account was invalid. (No idea why, but I've been using Aldrick as my screen name for roughly a year now anyway.)
The Amn stuff over there is part of what I'm working on for stuff over here for my personal fanon shard. I'm -HOPING- to create a hex map of the region with one hex being the equivalent of one day travel in normal conditions, which is one of the reasons I needed to know the size of Faerûn / Amn in square miles. Well, that, and in addition to all the other reasons I listed over there.
I also did some thinking on marriage and same-sex relationships in the Realms, which I want to do a write-up for over here. However, my time has been devoted to researching Amn and the like at the moment. You can view the marriage thread here. Unfortunately, it got locked due to someone bringing in real world politics.
I may simply break down and compile all my thoughts regarding marriage and relationships in the Realms into a single article and post it over here sometime this week, time permiting.
My feelings on Abier are not so good... It was one of the things I found somewhat silly with the 4E changes. Look at it this way: There is established canon connections with OTHER planets, but Toril has had a secret sister planet that no one knew about? Seems unlikely. My issue isn't that Toril has come into contact with another planet, or even that it has a sister planet, but rather it feels tacked on... It feels jarring and out of place.
That being said; I do like the concept of Dragonborn. Perhaps there are rumors that are spreading around Faerûn about a Dragon Emperor who has ascended to godhood conquering all of Kara-Tur. According to the rumors ages ago, when dragons ruled the world, they did battle with one of their own who sought to usurp the power of their gods and rule all dragonkin as a divine emperor. Unable to defeat him, they united and imprisoned him deep below the Yehimal Mountains in an eternal sleep. When the Spellplague happened the wards and magics that imprisoned this dragon allowed it to become free.
This dragon then began laying siege to Shou Lung. Amid the chaos of the Spellplague many turned to serve the dragon out of fear. According to the rumor its favored servants undergo a ritual which transforms them from humanoids into Dragonborn, and it is these Dragonborn that led its armies, its religion, and its empire. All of Kara-Tur is at war with constant rebellions and chaos from one end to the other as the Dragon Emperor and its Dragonborn attempt to enslave all peoples and unite Kara-Tur under a single banner. Should that ever happen, they say, the Dragon Emperor would turn its eyes to Faerûn, and it and all of its people would be doomed.
That's how I'd play it. Shou and other races come from Kara-Tur into Faerûn as refugees. They carry with them tales of chaos, dragon gods, rebellion, people being transformed into dragon-like monsters, etc. Occasionally, you'd see a Dragonborn coming from Kara-Tur as well.
I'd use the lore for Dragonborn similar to what was discussed in Races of the Dragon. In a nutshell, all Dragonborn were once humans (or some other sentient humanoid), who has undergone a ritual transformation into their current form. However, in doing this much of their former existence has been wiped from their memories. All Dragonborn would be current or former servants of a Dragon Emperor that has conquered much of Shou Lung.
Other than that, I'd leave details pretty sketchy.
As for divine magic... according to the 3E FRCS the Weave was the conduit for divine and arcane magic. So in my Realms at least, I said yes - all magic that utilized the Weave was effected (both arcane and divine). Though in my Realms all divine spellcasters lost their powers as deities immediately ceased using the Weave. Deities in my Realms now channel divine power to their clergy directly, but there are MUCH MUCH MUCH fewer priests than in the past that can use divine power. Most are mundane, though they have the capability and knowledge to use divine rituals.
The reason I gave for the gods using the Weave to channel divine power to their clergies was because it wasn't very taxing to do. It was simple and easy. After the Spellplague, now that they have to do it directly, mortals with divine power are viewed more like Chosen as they actually hold a bit of their deities divinity within them. (That is the source of their power.) Doing this is taxing and draining on the deity, and thus only a select handful actually can use divine power.
I got to admit Abeir has grown on me some, at first I thought it was a dumb idea, just a stupid reason from them to explain Dragonborn in the Realms, when really they didnt need to do that being as there was already Dragonborn in the Realms, kinda makes me wonder if perhaps theres some animosity between Dragonborn that were already here and the Abierian ones, or for that matter between Eladrin that were here already and ones that just came from the Feywild.
But any like I said Abeir is growin on me, it is kinda interesting in a way, and does put a different twist on the Dawn War thing in the Realms.
And the Dragon Emperor idea sounds pretty cool, maybe through some Primordials into the mix as well? Definitely would make me want to flee the area!
First of all, congratulations for the initiative!
Even considering that the new FR 4e had a lot of interesting ideas and concepts, I believe that some issues were not addressed as I personally would like to have them updated in the new version of the Realms. And because of some changes, not just me, but my playing groups as well, lost some of their interest in FR in D&D 4e (we have turned to other settings, such as Eberron and Dark Sun, that went to a less-traumatic update process). 
However, the idea of a Fanonical Shard brought to me some ideas and concepts that I already had in mind and that I would try to incorporate in my own version of FR 4e, with the objective to rekindle to me (and my players, hehehe) some interest to the Realms again. And considering the propposition of this thread, I woud like to share them with you.
Here are my initial suggestions for the Fanon Realms Project:
1 - Zhentil Keep. Instead to have Zhentil Keep just erased from memory again, I would propose a different approach: the Shadovar in fact discovered that Fzoul and Zhentil Keep were forging an alliance with the Phaerimm and other aberrations (such as the beholders that already were its allies) as stated in the new Realms. In response to the fact, a large-scale war was fought between the reborn empire of Netheril and Zhentil Keep. But in this timeline, Fzoul called the power of Bane to fight against the invaders, and perform the action that Cyric had attempted (and failed) years before – to save Zhentil Keep. With the divine intervention of Bane, the Zhents finally could won the day and avoid the (second) destruction of Zhentil Keep. Fzoul is slain in the battle, but since he proved himself worthy in the conflict, he is elevated by Bane to the status of exarch, having the “service to evil” domain substituted by “conquest” (see the reason for this in item 2 below).
2 - Kingdom of Zhentil. With the victory over the Shadovar, and the divine apotheosis of Fzoul as an exarch of conquest, the Zhentarim becomes a machine of war, and accomplish, for the first time, the conquest of all the cities of the Moonsea region. While some of them are conquered by force (such as Melvaunt) others see the benefits to become integrated in the growing kingdom of Zhentil (such as Mulmaster, even fearing the risks to be on the opposite side of Fzoul’s growing empire). In this respect, the forces of Zhentil Keep march under Bane (and Fzoul’s) divine guidance, and turn their attentions east instead of the Dalelands, which they already suffered a lot of defeats. The relations between the Realms of the Heartlands would be more delicate (Netheril, Cormyr, Myth Drannor, Dalelands, Zhentil), with much more opportunities for every kind of adventures in this scenario.
Soon I shall bring more options to the thread. Since I´m Brazilian and english is not my mother language, sorry for any mistakes here! 
See ya!