- Athrogate. I really liked the dwarf before and was happy when he appeared again in this book. After his emotional and proud dwarven side surfaced a lot more I like him even more. Bwahaha!
- Dahlia. I felt as if she was forced upon me a bit. I mean, she's a very young elf that grew up amongst necromancers and undead. How could she have learned to master a unique weapon to the extend that she easily crossed it with the centuries old warrior Artemis Entreri? And the way she held her own in conversations with the master of bluff and insight, Jarlaxle, was another thing I didn't like. The cover fooled me though as I expected her to back stab the party and fight Drizzt.
- Drizzt. I found him to be very dull in the novel. Almost like a side kick. He does seem to care less, hide in battle and found intrest in Dahlia. His new magic item is nice and was overdue for him to keep up with Jarlaxle's nightmare and Athrogate's hell boar. His fighting skills obviously diminished. I mean, we're talking Drizzt Do'Urden here. He slew a balor, an ancient dragon, a marilith and an ancient dracolich. And now he is stopped in his pursuit of a pit fiend by two legion devils? Really?
- Bruenor. Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo! I hated to see him die albeit it was a fitting scenario. His fight with the pit fiend was epic still plays in front of my eyes.
- Pwent. Another of the dwarves gone. Wouldn't have made sense for him to go on without Bruenor, so I liked how Salvatore had him leaving Faerun in battlerager style.
- Artemis Entreri. What a stupid name is Barrabus? I expect to see revelations as to how exactly he became a shade (although it was quite obvious from an earlier book), why he surrendered the longsword (can't remember its name) that he sought for so long to that tiefling. The Entreri of old would have simply stabbed the imposter, so the assassin's situation must be serious. Looking forward to learn more.
- Gauntlgrym. Ok, I read part of the novel on the train and partly amidst yelling kids, so maybe the details slipped from my sight. But how exactly learned Thay of the existence of the primordial in the legendary dwarven city that was believed to be a myth and had been searched for for millenia?
- The time line. The advancement of a decade felt rushed to me. Ten years as a number without any events. Drizzt, Bruenor, Pwent, Nanfoodle and Jessa adventured together for 20 years - as long as Drizzt had with Wulfgar, Regis and Catti-brie. Still, it was almost as if these newer companions were merely second thoughts, if at all at that. And in 50 years of searching caves everywhere, the legendary dwarf king and drow ranger never encountered any greater adventure?
ANd to answer your question about That, Szass Tam has eyes and ears everywhere, EVERYWHERE!!! So yeah it does make some sense that they would know about it.
Sass is 2000 years old.
ANd
if he didn't know where it was
than
the
(read the first letter of each word first)
Netherese
Dead
Archmage
Larloch told him, and that old bag of bones is oldered than the previous mentioned old bag of bones.
of course I am bsing, but it's a good explanation as any
I havnt read this one yet, ive never been a big fan of Drizzt, but Ill proabably read it for lore on Neverwinter and of course Gauntlgrym, lost Dwarven cities are always cool, so how is the book lorewise?
ANd to answer your question about That, Szass Tam has eyes and ears everywhere, EVERYWHERE!!! So yeah it does make some sense that they would know about it.
Not much lore, really. The descriptions on Neverwinter are very sparse (some bridges and that's pretty much it). Gauntlgrym is very flavorful and has some interesting lore. It is explained how the everburning forge functions with the help of a trapped primordial and water elementals from the arcane hosttower in Luskan. There is some unique magic present in Gauntlgrym such as the throne that kicks everyone out that is not a dwarven king but injects the delzoun kings with incredible strength (watch Bruenor take on a pit fiend). Some doors open only to the lyrics of an old dwarven song/ rhyme that every dwarf knows.
Now, on to the rest of the book. ... I LOVED IT!!!!! So much so that I paced myself and held back my speed-reading to the limits.
Dhalia: I like the character. I found her background to be tragic and pretty hardcore. Salvatore didn't hold back. I don't think it is impossible for her to be so skilled with Kozah's Needle, especially with her age. Drizzt was a prodegy as well, if you remember, and he was barely in his 90's when he escaped the Underdark! I would place Dhalia around the 100-120 age range. Maybe 50-60 when she was brutally assaulted, and spent the 50 years Drizzt spent wandering with Bruenor training and gaining levels.
Drizzt: If him being less of a central character means I don't have to listen to his whining, then I'm all for it. BRING IT! However, I will agree with you about his skills. I don't think it's really a lack of skill or dulling of his prowess but the lack of opportunity to showcase his abilities. Salvatore put him in situations/environments he could not get out of, not enemies.
Athrogate: He teld me to tell ye, "don't be BWAHAHAin' if ye aint be rhymin." bwahahahaha :P
On a serious note, I thought it was pretty clear he wanted to die in that last scene, but Jarlaxle was too selfish to let him go. I felt bad for Athrogate.
Bruenor: A fitting adventure for a great dwarf, and a fitting end. His scenes with Pwent really choked me up. DAMN YOU SALVATORE!!! The end with Pwent using his dying breath to lovingly place his king ("ME KING!!!") on that lever was really ... rly ... *sniffle* ...
Pwent: One thing that bothered me was his age. I did not realize he was so old! I know the years skipped ahead pretty fast but still, I figured him to be decades younger than Bruenor ("ME KING!!!")
Entreri: I agree with you hurr. How far he has fallen!!! And I'm excluding that time he was a slave to the drow!!! I don't think he remembers who he truly is though. It was mentioned that he is under some magical compulsion, and I wouldn't be surprised if it included false memories or memory wipes. I think his geas/curse/whatever is connected to Charon's Claw. It was made clear that the artifact sword called out to him, and the obviously share a symbiotic relationship as the sword has never had a more fitting wielder.
Timeline: I'm sure Drizzt and his super-friends had many adventures in that 50 year gap, but Salvatore decided not to write about it. I think this was a smart move because it gives him a lot of room to go back and write about the "Lost Years of Drizzt". haha
P.S. Mikron, you forgot the dwarf ghosts that guard/haunt Gauntlgrym.
Is Gauntlgrym a trilogy or a stand-alone novel?
I've been out of the loop and only recently finished the Ghost King.
Is Gauntlgrym a trilogy or a stand-alone novel?
It's the first of a trilogy, called Neverwinter. It's set like 70 yrs after the events of The Ghost King.
I'm definitely sad to see an end to the Companions of the Hall; it sucks! That being said, I suppose it had to happen eventually and I think Bruenor went out like a dwarf should. I'm interested in seeing what will happen with Driz in the following novels.
you want to know how he knew it was there??
Sass is 2000 years old.
NO - Szass Tam isn't ANYWHERE near that old - compared to other FR Liches he is a mere stripling.
Larloch told him, and that old bag of bones is oldered than the previous mentioned old bag of bones.
THIS was my intial thought - Larloch has shared 'ancient secrets' with Tammy Thay before.
athrogate: couldnt agree more with op. pride in his dwarven heritage gave the character much needed development, a sense that there was more to him than bloodthirsty opportunity.
dhalia: love this character, almost from the moment she is introduced. earrings, subjugating dor'crae (who is lameness incarnate btw), and tossing her own child off a cliff in vengeance, that im sure in time will haunt her as she spends more and more time with drizzt. not that i would condone that kind of behavior, but i would fall in love with this elf if i wasnt so scared she kill me.
artemis entrerri, barrabus the grey, whatever you want to call him: meh
gauntlgrym: fantastic. loved every page every word of this place. the divine dwarven enchanting of bruenor and his gear is right up my alley for the games i run. the final however many pages of the book that follows drizzt and his company into the place and to the end of their mission, one of the most enjoyable reads iv had...ever.
the timeline: dont mind this one bit. with the companions of the hall, it was always in my head that eventually salvatore will have to move on without the humans. inevitable. now you have a party of almost all long lived characters, which means the story can span longer periods of time, something i dont mind. in the campaigns i run, there tends to be characters that live for extremely long periods of time, im used to it.
pwent: love his role, mostly because i never thought he'd be a part of the end, but how could i not expect this! dar!! a shield dwarf could not hope to meet a greater end, helping his king finish the most important adventure of his life.
bruenor: /sigh.... a greater father than he, a greater king than he, a greater friend than he, a greater dwarf than he...there is none. nuff said.
jarlaxle: i know op didn't mention this guy, but...i think i was as surprisingly hurt by his supposed passing as drizzt was. to think that all this time braegan daerthe (probably not spelled right) were a bunch of closet case drizzt fanbois was awesome, as i often wondered why this mercenary band didn't see him as their eternal hero all along. jarlaxle's always been one of my favorite salvatore characters, i like him much more after this book.
which leaves us with drizzt.
you know, there is a lot of complaining how invincible he is, how unchanging his character is, and i myself have often critisized this character for somehow being able to perfectly disseminate hardship, tragedy, violence and death...over and over and over and over...
but perhaps we are trying to compare drizzt to what our expectations would be for a human, or some other shorter lived race. as a man, i have changed who i am over the course of my life a few times, but those were probably close to a decade apart. they are different eras of my life and it takes a long time to experience, learn, and determine new parameters for my existence. as a long lived elf, wouldnt a decade equal closer to a century for these changes to happen? maybe, im not an elf so its hard to say :P
so finally we have a drizzt who cannot properly handle the pain and conflict he is experiencing internally. for the first time since the dark elf trilogy, i am wondering what kind of person drizzt will be in the next book. cudos to you salvatore.
as for him not having as prominent a role, i can tell you as someone who has spent a lot of time writing various phases of an epic story line (nothing ever published, nothing complete, but hundreds of written pages) it is easier for me to look at these trilogies as one greater, big story, and a charcter not prominent in the beginning may be much more important later on, as i would guess drizzt will be if not in the second novel definitely the third.
its painful to watch his relationship with dhalia turning to romance, because as a fan i loved cattie-brie very much, but hey, how long has it been since her death? how long was drizzt supposed to remain alone and depressed?
i have read all of the drizzt based novels many, many times. they may not be the highest quality writing in the world, but i love them, mostly for drizzt holding on to his ideals and a moral code that this world we live in often prevents us from keeping. my honest opinion is that this is the best drizzt novel written since passage to dawn, which has always been hands down my favorite.
to summarize, i loved this book. couldn't put it down. can't wait to get the next two, except for that ever increasing fear that soon ra salvatore will grow weary of all this next edition revamp nonsense and kill the guy off.
thank you for enriching my mind and soul, salvatore.
Athrogate was probably the highlight of this book for me. I liked his character development, I liked his interactions with Bruenor. There were things I very much didn't like, but I'll get to that next.
Dahlia is quite possibly the least likable fictional character I've read outside of bad warcraft fanfiction. So forced, so annoying. There are two types of pride; authentic and hubristic, authentic being attractive, magnetic, positive, deserved; hubristic being arrogant, offputting, and generally unlikable. Salvatore shot for authentic with her and, in my opinion, hit hubristic dead on. And I could rant and rave about the unfortunate implications of his first bisexual character being a serial killer, a rapist, so on and so forth. But mostly I hate that because she has a low cut top, men (and women, because she's bisexual) can't help but check her out during a heated fight, leading to their deaths. God I hate this character.
Gauntlgrym opens with Drizzt and Bruenor mulling over the fact that Obould just died of old age. Right off the bat my favorite character is dead, off screen. That put a sour taste in my mouth for the rest of the book.
well, i spose we are all entitled to our opinions, and this is just mine. if your favorite character of the drizzt novels is an orc introduced some 15 books in, im not sure your really a fan of the books lol..but that is just an opinion as well. your entitled to like whomever you like...
Athrogate was probably the highlight of this book for me. I liked his character development, I liked his interactions with Bruenor. There were things I very much didn't like, but I'll get to that next.
while he wasnt the highlight for me, seems most of us really liked what he did with athrogate. i no longer want to see the dwarf killed
Dahlia is quite possibly the least likable fictional character I've read outside of bad warcraft fanfiction. So forced, so annoying. There are two types of pride; authentic and hubristic, authentic being attractive, magnetic, positive, deserved; hubristic being arrogant, offputting, and generally unlikable. Salvatore shot for authentic with her and, in my opinion, hit hubristic dead on. And I could rant and rave about the unfortunate implications of his first bisexual character being a serial killer, a rapist, so on and so forth. But mostly I hate that because she has a low cut top, men (and women, because she's bisexual) can't help but check her out during a heated fight, leading to their deaths. God I hate this character.
again, this is just my opinion and perspective, but arent these statements referring to her sexuality a bit of a double edged sword? was his first bisexual character supposed to fit some mold that painted bisexuality and homosexuality in some positive light? is it required to be?? i had no idea salvatore was required to develop his characters constantly reminding himself that this world has treated bisexuals and homosexuals poorly and they need all the promoting so he better make her a wonderful person.
now this is just complete conjecture, but most men that i know fantasize about bisexual women. men iv run campaigns for have played women, and every one of them used their attractiveness to their advantage. perhaps in this regard salvatore is guilty of being like most men, but like i said, thats complete conjecture and baseless.
so for myself, i did not see her pride as hubris. doesnt she subdue her own pride and instead of meeting a retarded end when she initially refuses sylora in the alleyway, she accepts being a servant to her most reviled enemy. not saying she's perfect by any means, but i guess when i read a book or watch a movie i am not trying to find holes in everything. i tend to let the story take me, to let the fantasy take me for the ride, and let the cynics tell me what was wrong with it afterwards...
edit: and apparently i need to learn how to post using quotes properly
Regarding her sexuality; I'll grant you that potraying gays and bisexuals in a purely positive light is tired, apologetic, and in general a poor decision. But still, one can made a morally complex character of any sexuality without writing them as a serial killing rapist. Which is what Dahlia is. I would have disliked her every bit as much if she were a saint, but still, this left a bad taste in my mouth.
I fail to see how men finding bisexual women appealing has any bearing on her combat style. I also refuse to belief that someone showing some cleavage and thigh offers any combat advantage. If anything it offers some rather appealing targets. People can play their characters being hot all they want, and using that to your advantage is possible. Except when you do it in a straight up, life or death fight. No woman is so hot that people are checking her out when she is coming at them with lightning maces.
Timeline: I think, in regards to this, Salvatore used this as a transition book. It was never meant to be a play-by-play of 70yrs of adventure. It is a way to put to rest old characters who have run their course and usher in the next chapter in the life of a rather young drow.
Drizzt's "screen time": This isn't a Legend of Drizzt book. So, while he is an importnat character, he is not the central character...or, at least, not the only central character. And as for his skills, I think Salvatore gives a very plausible explanation. He has lost that fine edge of sword fighting brilliance because he is fighting with too much rage. His mastery came from being a precise and clean fighter. At the moment that is not the case. Also, lets face it, even though it took a lot of pages to describe in words how long did that fight actually take? Honestly? In the time it took Bruenor to run down a passage and fight a pit fiend, Drizzt and Dhalia fought 4 devils while dodging a powerful lich and her cultist minions. I think that is still epic!
Drizzt himself: I like this character development. Drizzt seems more relatable now. he has gone so long as the epitome of a goodly hero. Now he is faced with moral dilemmas that he is having trouble with because his judgement is clouded by pain and greif that he can't cope with. Also this is more of his learning "what it is to be an elf." He grew up around drow then dwarves. He had to be told how to be an elf by his friend in Hunter's Blades(?...fanboys forgive me if I am wrong on that...been a while). Now, he has to try and put that lesson into practice as his shorter lived friends pass on. I think this is a logical progression.
the Dwarves: A fitting ending for both Breunor and Pwent!! None other could suffice. Though, I must admit that I was afraid that Pwent would end his days in Icewind Dale. As for Athrogate I thought his was a much needed addition of depth. Also, after being run from Adbar and working with the Citadel of Assassins in Damara, his ordeal with Gauntlgrym is a sort of redemption.
Dhalia: again I thought this character was well done with logical steps in charcter development. Her ordeal left her cold, calculating and viscious. A person that did what it took to survive while she refused to look deeper at her actions. Just like Drizzt, she uses every available edge she can in battle...she just happens to have boobs. true, displaying those feminine charms so boldly may only afford her a split section reaction from her opponent, sometimes thats all it takes. It seems to me her pride and arrogance was the front that allowed her not to look deeper at the choices she has made. when she finally did during the first visit to Gauntlgrym, she didn't like what she saw and made a different choice. And at least to me she became much less arrogant after that.
Drizzt & Dhalia: I am honestly looking forward to seeing how this plays out. Don't get me wrong, I loved Cattie-Brie. But she was human and inevitably had to die at some point. I think that both Drizzt and Dhalia are a little lost and can help each other find their way back to themselves.
Jarlaxle: Impressed as usual with the every surprising and intriguing mercenary. I am also happy with teh change Salvatore made to the character over the last few books. He went from teh consumate profitteering oprotunist to gaining a rather prominent conscience.
Entreri: I have to say that at the end of the Sellswords I felt really bad for the guy. After all that happened to him, in which Jarlaxle had no small part, he just seemed kind of empty and hollow. Not even filled with anger anymore. I honestly think that he wanted to just die after that and is probably very bitter about the fact that he apparently cant, thanks to accidently taking the life force of a shade with his dagger...or would be if he could bring himself to care. And I don't think he is under and enchantment or curse. It looks more like the sword, Charon's Claw, is attuned with him since he is now part shade and the Teifling/Shade is using that bound kind of like you use a demon's true name against it.
Finally, as for how the Thayans could know about Gauntlgrym when even the dwarves didn't know where it was...They didn't. they figured out that the power to the Hosttower was coming from the primordeal. In searching for that source the accidently found the dwarf city and even then had to ask Arklam Greeth to find out that it was Gauntlgrym
Anyway...sorry to be so long winded. Can't wait for teh next book
Jarlaxle - No surprises from Jarlaxle in this novel. He is one of my favorite characters, but in this novel he didn't seem to have that aura of intelligence and intrigue about him that he displayed in previous novels. I just failed to understand why he didn't anticipate Dalia and Sylora's deception during their first jouney into Gauntlgrym. Furthermore, he never came out the winner. He seemed to be more of a tag along character than someone who was capable of turning a chaotic situation to his own advantage. His little chat with Drizzt was about the only interesting thing he did.
Drizzt - Innocent and distracted, is the best I can describe the new Drizzt. He really didn't seem like the calculating hunter that he once was. The fighting with Dhalia really destoryed any hope I had of him still being a fantastic weapon master. Sadly it seems that Drizzt will soon be doing her, not exactly sure why though. Perhaps there will be an earing in Dhalia's ear for him soon enough. At the moment Drizzt seems innocent and stupid and will most likely fall right into her trap, but if that happens, I'm not interested in this trilogy anymore.
Bruenor, Athrogate, pwent, all good characters. I liked them all in this novel.
Having not read the Ghost King yet and any other books thereafter. I didn't even realize that Entreri was even in this novel. The last books I read were the 2 sellswords books. I could be wrong, but I don't recal that ever being explained in the book. I'll have to go back and read again.... maybe I missed something...
I think Artemis is a slave to the artifact weapon he once had or his new master has. It's red sword (different type) and very much like the guy who used it before Artemis kneeled down before the skin head burnt off his face or something, its been awhile since I read that one. But I did notice the tiefling kept making Artemis submit and kneel to him so I figured it might have been a clue. Artemis did master holding the blade without the Claw but he was also affected by an artifact changing his alignment so I guess we'll find out in the fall when Neverwinter Wood is released.
Also a heard Mr. Bob say he is happy to be now playing with drow in the underdark again for his third book for this series.
What book did all this stuff about Artemis happen in?
Firstly, I don't see any problems with Szass Tam knowing about the primordial. Honestly, I think he had a theory that was proven right. I mean, cmon, it doesn't take a 30 Intelligence to figure out some kind of fire elemental would be powering the legendary "Eternal Forge of Gauntlgrym". Srsly?
Now, on to the rest of the book. ... I LOVED IT!!!!! So much so that I paced myself and held back my speed-reading to the limits.
Dhalia: I like the character. I found her background to be tragic and pretty hardcore. Salvatore didn't hold back. I don't think it is impossible for her to be so skilled with Kozah's Needle, especially with her age. Drizzt was a prodegy as well, if you remember, and he was barely in his 90's when he escaped the Underdark! I would place Dhalia around the 100-120 age range. Maybe 50-60 when she was brutally assaulted, and spent the 50 years Drizzt spent wandering with Bruenor training and gaining levels.
Drizzt: If him being less of a central character means I don't have to listen to his whining, then I'm all for it. BRING IT! However, I will agree with you about his skills. I don't think it's really a lack of skill or dulling of his prowess but the lack of opportunity to showcase his abilities. Salvatore put him in situations/environments he could not get out of, not enemies.
Athrogate: He teld me to tell ye, "don't be BWAHAHAin' if ye aint be rhymin." bwahahahaha :P
On a serious note, I thought it was pretty clear he wanted to die in that last scene, but Jarlaxle was too selfish to let him go. I felt bad for Athrogate.
Bruenor: A fitting adventure for a great dwarf, and a fitting end. His scenes with Pwent really choked me up. DAMN YOU SALVATORE!!! The end with Pwent using his dying breath to lovingly place his king ("ME KING!!!") on that lever was really ... rly ... *sniffle* ...
Pwent: One thing that bothered me was his age. I did not realize he was so old! I know the years skipped ahead pretty fast but still, I figured him to be decades younger than Bruenor ("ME KING!!!")
Entreri: I agree with you hurr. How far he has fallen!!! And I'm excluding that time he was a slave to the drow!!! I don't think he remembers who he truly is though. It was mentioned that he is under some magical compulsion, and I wouldn't be surprised if it included false memories or memory wipes. I think his geas/curse/whatever is connected to Charon's Claw. It was made clear that the artifact sword called out to him, and the obviously share a symbiotic relationship as the sword has never had a more fitting wielder.
Timeline: I'm sure Drizzt and his super-friends had many adventures in that 50 year gap, but Salvatore decided not to write about it. I think this was a smart move because it gives him a lot of room to go back and write about the "Lost Years of Drizzt". haha
P.S. Mikron, you forgot the dwarf ghosts that guard/haunt Gauntlgrym.
If Dhalia would have been close to the century mark, I wouldn't have had a problem with her fighting or communication skill. I'm pretty sure, though, that she is listed as "in her twenties" in the book.
As for Pwent, he was already involved in the fight with Shimmergloom and returned to Mithral Hall after the Companions of the Hall, the Harpels and dwarves cleaned it - more than 200 years later.
Edit: Yes, I forgot about the ghosts of Gauntlgrym. I liked the guys along with the whole city.
As somebody else pointed out, I also didn't mention Jarlaxle, who - next to Drizzt - is my favourite fantasy character. I like his development to the side of good but miss his famous moments as master puppeteer.