Getting ready to DM my first 4e FR game. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Getting ready to DM my first 4e FR game.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
krownhunter07
Mar 10, 2009 11:12:25 Hello all, I (finally) got things in place to get my two oldest boys into D&D. My wife has played before, and is gracious enough to humor me in playing with our boys.

That said, I've decided to start with the Loudwater adventure, then move onto KotS and/or SSgT, and move on from there.

My need, from you fine people, is a simple one, but one I have trouble with.

I'm one of those people that drink up lore, stories and books to know all I can about the setting I enjoy. In the past, I've had a very bad habit of trying to shove FR's history down my players throats, and I very much want to avoid this.

So, with that in mind, do any of you have tips, ideas or what-have-you, that can aid me in starting small and working their understanding of the Realms from there?

PC's are;

Dragonborn Fighter (my oldest boys pc), Elven Ranger (my middle son's), Half-elf Rogue, might MC warlock (my wife's, she loves Rogue/warlocks above all) and my DMPC is an Eladrin Swordmage.

Thanks you for you time.
#2
phelf_der_zemit
Mar 10, 2009 21:17:14 a) I'd try starting them in an enviroment full of lore that they can't help but pick up just from being around there.

b) Assign readings for each session... nah.

c) When beginning get a recognisable but not to powerful NPC to give them a lecture on the event in question or some sort of little tutorial for the basic realms knowhow. (NPC ideas: Leader of some sage school or mage collage)

Just some ideas to bounce around. If I come up with others I'll be right back.
#3
lord_karsus
Mar 10, 2009 23:12:45 -Make sure that they take notes. You can have your character spout on about whatever obscure details and whatever else you want, and they have the choice to write down what they want. If it turns out that they don't record inportant details about something that they need to know, you'll always be there to remind them about names/places/things/etc.

-I'll go against, and agree with Phelf's suggestion to have someone act as a "mentor" of sorts. It's a good thing to have, someone to "guide them", but I wouldn't use a recognizable NPC, like a Drizzt, or an Elminster, or whoever else. In fact, I wouldn't even feature those people unless your players want to see them. So many people don't like those characters, or the setting, because of the DM forcing those people on the players, or in their games. Don't be "that DM".

-Otherwise, follow all other 'normal' DMing conventions. Regardless of the setting, it's all mostly the same.
#4
krownhunter07
Mar 11, 2009 11:37:46 Well, I plan to have a GMPC (Half-elf Bard, to aid in healing and stay in the background), so the history buff thing is set.

My real problem, however, is feeding too much lore to new and/or lore-lite players.

My kids are young and I don't want to give them too much too fast. My wife just wants to play and likes it lore lite. So I have to find a happy medium.

I tend to fist-feed lore, and that is what I'd like to avoid this time around.

Thanks for the responses so far.
#5
lord_karsus
Mar 11, 2009 14:45:29 -Say what you want to, and let them write down what they want to. Anything that they don't, you have your NPC to conveniently remember. Things that they find extraneous will get shrugged away, and things that they don't will be retained. It's always better to include too much imagery and information than not enough imagery and information.
#6
markustay63
Mar 11, 2009 15:56:44 Loudwater's perfect - it isn't so big and intimidating as other areas of the Realms are (like Cormyr, or Waterdeep).

I would drop casual hints about certain things, but hold off on that until at least the second session - make Loudwater and its environs the only lore they know that first session (you need to 'grow' the world outward from them, not overwhelm them with info).

I would mention the Zhents, somehow, a session or two in, but nothing conspicous - something along the lines of "...an old mine that was taken over by Zhents years ago, after they drove off the miners... not much there now...", and then just let that hang in the air (unless they ask questions - but don't give them too many details - most folks won't know any).

I say the Zhents because they were expanding into this area years ago, as opposed to the Thayans, which you shouldn't mention, because they had no business there. Avoid 'big bads' until they are ready for something like that (the Shades come to mind).

Thats how you do it - drop little morsels of information all along the path you are leading them, and don't give them anything they don't need, or won't prove useful (like telling them about Maztica, when it isn't even around anytmore). Let them learn by experience, not long-winded history lessons.

Here's an idea I never tried (because my boys were teens before I started playing D&D with them) - if your boys are young enough, you may want to tell them 'bedtime stories' about the Realms; either ones you make-up yourself, or ones taken from novels and and para-phraised. In that way, you could tell them about "far-away lands and heroes of old", without slowing down your game-sessions with all the 'needless' chatter (lets face it, kids want to thwack monsters - thats what its all about).

Lastly, you may want to start them off with the starter-adventure in the DMG - the one centering around Fallcrest. I have created a conversion map for that, which locates it near Loudwater for folks wanting to use both.
#7
Alter_Boy
Mar 11, 2009 16:00:20 Not everyone is into lore and backstory. If the group is, place it out on a table like a banquet. If they're not, keep it in your backpocket and use it when the players have questions about the world. Make lore an on-demand service: provide it only when requested. In other words, don't bore them with unwanted details.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with encouraging curiosity in lore...
#8
rauric
Mar 11, 2009 16:16:05
Dragonborn Fighter (my oldest boys pc), Elven Ranger (my middle son's), Half-elf Rogue, might MC warlock (my wife's, she loves Rogue/warlocks above all) and my DMPC is an Eladrin Swordmage.

Thanks you for you time.

I would suggest that you lose the swordmage and make him a leader. If you dislike clerics try the new Bard class, it looks like it will rock and you can use implements or weapons. Since you have new gamers and you are all new to
4E I would suggest a healer/leader of some and not just a pally. My 2 cents on that issue.

Markus is right on the money with Loudwater. There is fun places to the north and south to visit and it is near the coast so sea adventures or things that work in chuthulu type sitiations can be used.

Give the dragonborn a reason for being in Faerun. He is looking for something that would help his people, perhaps a relic or book of some sort. Maybe he is looking for someone who stole something from his people. You can fit in the bard right there, perhaps make the bard DMnpc a dragonborn Bard. He is helping the lad with the quest. The elven ranger knows of what the dragonborn is seeking. His people have references to a dungeon that could help the quest or a family member gave him a map or heirloom that could help the dragonborn. The half-elf is probably just likes to adventure. You might have all this thought out already though.

Whatever they are questing for they need to hit a few famous places to make it work out for them. Plus give them better than average gear here and there and give the items cool names that sound like they should have a history to them. The urge to get more gear similar to what they have could make them learn about the lore of the world.
#9
krownhunter07
Mar 11, 2009 18:07:05
...

...

I'm working on backgrounds for my player' 'PC's, so they're in the works at the moment, but I'll let you all know when they are done.

I did drop the Swordmage for a Bard, for many of the reasons you stated, and I like the Loudwater suggestions you all gave, thanks.

I plan to run the mini-adventures in the FRCG (and now the one in the DMG, thank you very much for the map link, MarkusTay63), then move onto the Specter of Spellguard Tower... so the first few sessions are down.

I like starting in the Grey Vale region and I think leaving bits and pieces of lore that they can inquire about is a good idea.

lol, FR bedtime stories should be fun, I'll see if I can try that out as well.
#10
rauric
Mar 11, 2009 20:54:35 Cool. Bards rock. They are useful , have fun powers and heal. Being able to use a weapon is also an added plus.

I would steer away from Shadow/Shar stuff. I would have them work for the Halruaans and their new deal or investigate some Spelscarred stuff. That is new FR goodness.

If you want to get into the old FR stuff have them hang in Waterdeep, or better yet the Moonshaes. Perhaps a Moonblade lies in the elfs future and it lies within the Ilses. There ya go, Moonblades and the Moonshaes. That is some realmsian fun.
#11
kerym_ammath
Mar 14, 2009 9:03:31 Once you have the players backgrounds down it will be much easier for you to avoid the fist feeding of lore. As long as the stories are directly relevant to the characters likes and dislikes, any lore that is spilled will be relevant to the players. If you stray and try to force feed a plot hook (dripping with gooey bits of lore) that the characters would most likely not care about, then you are going to run into problems. Players have amazing memories when details are relevant to their characters, to them, to the story, not when a DM decides it would be relevant because it fits his idea of cool.
#12
RUMPLESTIX
Mar 14, 2009 12:28:00 something you might want to try is wikispaces.

they have some free set up space.

You can use this to add stories and info and/or to keep a blog for the party.

If you use it to print out lore and info, then if they lose their copies they can go to the site to review it. (I'm not usre on the ages or your/your wife's/your children's computer skills...)

Also, if you incorporate the blog bit you can use it to incorporate the PCs actions into the narrative of the lore. Sort of like an on-line bard's tale of their exploits.

But, as I originally stated, you can place your lore in it as you divulge it to the PCs so they can always access it and referesh their memories.

Just a thought.
#13
krownhunter07
Mar 15, 2009 12:56:06 Great ideas and suggestions guys, much appreciated.

I'll post the PC's and backgrounds when I'm done.

Oh, and I (finally) got my RPGA sign in info up to date, checked out the adventures in and around the Grey Vale and really, really, like the ones they have.

So, my plan is to use those and the published core adventures that can fit (if my PC's want a bit of change and to roam the country.

I recently got a boatload more minis, found a nice site that lets you buy singles cheap, so I nabbed a Dragonborn that fits my oldest PC perfectly.

If all goes well, we should be starting around my b-day (April 2nd), we have our hands full with a newborn at the present, so gaming at an earlier date would be to much of a hassle for noobs.

More ideas and suggestions are always welcome and thanks again.
#14
falstyr
Mar 20, 2009 10:00:54 Info dumps are bloody annoying. So don't follow half of the advice given here.
No required reading, no lectures from npc's that go on and on and on and other nonsense like that. Just do it subtly. Weave a bit of lore in the short descriptions you give of cities or areas the players enter. Give short pieces of background spread through their adventures through rumors, common knowledge etc.

It sticks a lot more when giving it to them in small dosages without them noticing it compared to long info dumps from which they will forget most. They'll get bored and want to play and thus such dumps ruining the game for them.
#15
Diffan
Mar 25, 2009 7:42:13
I recently got a boatload more minis, found a nice site that lets you buy singles cheap, so I nabbed a Dragonborn that fits my oldest PC perfectly.
.

I'm always lookin' for good deals on Minis. Could you PM me the site?
#16
krownhunter07
Mar 25, 2009 15:34:54
I'm always lookin' for good deals on Minis. Could you PM me the site?

I PM'd you with the links. Hope they help.

So, my sister just came to visit with her new husband, so I had the opportunity to show them 4e and see my kids in play a bit before we start our FR game.

Sadly, my middle child is still a little too young to focus on the game, but my oldest had a blast and seemed to really enjoy himself (up until he triggered a trap, but even then he had fun).

Anyways, I got their PC's and backgrounds up and going, so I'll post them (maybe a new thread detailing my gaming sessions and what not) in the next few days.

Thanks again for the suggestions and advice.
#17
Diffan
Mar 25, 2009 19:48:57
I PM'd you with the links. Hope they help.

Awesome man, thanks.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 krownhunter07 Mar 10, 2009 11:12:25	Hello all, I (finally) got things in place to get my two oldest boys into D&D. My wife has played before, and is gracious enough to humor me in playing with our boys. That said, I've decided to start with the Loudwater adventure, then move onto KotS and/or SSgT, and move on from there. My need, from you fine people, is a simple one, but one I have trouble with. I'm one of those people that drink up lore, stories and books to know all I can about the setting I enjoy. In the past, I've had a very bad habit of trying to shove FR's history down my players throats, and I very much want to avoid this. So, with that in mind, do any of you have tips, ideas or what-have-you, that can aid me in starting small and working their understanding of the Realms from there? PC's are; Dragonborn Fighter (my oldest boys pc), Elven Ranger (my middle son's), Half-elf Rogue, might MC warlock (my wife's, she loves Rogue/warlocks above all) and my DMPC is an Eladrin Swordmage. Thanks you for you time.
#2 phelf_der_zemit Mar 10, 2009 21:17:14	a) I'd try starting them in an enviroment full of lore that they can't help but pick up just from being around there. b) Assign readings for each session... nah. c) When beginning get a recognisable but not to powerful NPC to give them a lecture on the event in question or some sort of little tutorial for the basic realms knowhow. (NPC ideas: Leader of some sage school or mage collage) Just some ideas to bounce around. If I come up with others I'll be right back.
#3 lord_karsus Mar 10, 2009 23:12:45	-Make sure that they take notes. You can have your character spout on about whatever obscure details and whatever else you want, and they have the choice to write down what they want. If it turns out that they don't record inportant details about something that they need to know, you'll always be there to remind them about names/places/things/etc. -I'll go against, and agree with Phelf's suggestion to have someone act as a "mentor" of sorts. It's a good thing to have, someone to "guide them", but I wouldn't use a recognizable NPC, like a Drizzt, or an Elminster, or whoever else. In fact, I wouldn't even feature those people unless your players want to see them. So many people don't like those characters, or the setting, because of the DM forcing those people on the players, or in their games. Don't be "that DM". -Otherwise, follow all other 'normal' DMing conventions. Regardless of the setting, it's all mostly the same.
#4 krownhunter07 Mar 11, 2009 11:37:46	Well, I plan to have a GMPC (Half-elf Bard, to aid in healing and stay in the background), so the history buff thing is set. My real problem, however, is feeding too much lore to new and/or lore-lite players. My kids are young and I don't want to give them too much too fast. My wife just wants to play and likes it lore lite. So I have to find a happy medium. I tend to fist-feed lore, and that is what I'd like to avoid this time around. Thanks for the responses so far.
#5 lord_karsus Mar 11, 2009 14:45:29	-Say what you want to, and let them write down what they want to. Anything that they don't, you have your NPC to conveniently remember. Things that they find extraneous will get shrugged away, and things that they don't will be retained. It's always better to include too much imagery and information than not enough imagery and information.
#6 markustay63 Mar 11, 2009 15:56:44	Loudwater's perfect - it isn't so big and intimidating as other areas of the Realms are (like Cormyr, or Waterdeep). I would drop casual hints about certain things, but hold off on that until at least the second session - make Loudwater and its environs the only lore they know that first session (you need to 'grow' the world outward from them, not overwhelm them with info). I would mention the Zhents, somehow, a session or two in, but nothing conspicous - something along the lines of "...an old mine that was taken over by Zhents years ago, after they drove off the miners... not much there now...", and then just let that hang in the air (unless they ask questions - but don't give them too many details - most folks won't know any). I say the Zhents because they were expanding into this area years ago, as opposed to the Thayans, which you shouldn't mention, because they had no business there. Avoid 'big bads' until they are ready for something like that (the Shades come to mind). Thats how you do it - drop little morsels of information all along the path you are leading them, and don't give them anything they don't need, or won't prove useful (like telling them about Maztica, when it isn't even around anytmore). Let them learn by experience, not long-winded history lessons. Here's an idea I never tried (because my boys were teens before I started playing D&D with them) - if your boys are young enough, you may want to tell them 'bedtime stories' about the Realms; either ones you make-up yourself, or ones taken from novels and and para-phraised. In that way, you could tell them about "far-away lands and heroes of old", without slowing down your game-sessions with all the 'needless' chatter (lets face it, kids want to thwack monsters - thats what its all about). Lastly, you may want to start them off with the starter-adventure in the DMG - the one centering around Fallcrest. I have created a conversion map for that, which locates it near Loudwater for folks wanting to use both.
#7 Alter_Boy Mar 11, 2009 16:00:20	Not everyone is into lore and backstory. If the group is, place it out on a table like a banquet. If they're not, keep it in your backpocket and use it when the players have questions about the world. Make lore an on-demand service: provide it only when requested. In other words, don't bore them with unwanted details. Of course, there's nothing wrong with encouraging curiosity in lore...
#8 rauric Mar 11, 2009 16:16:05	Dragonborn Fighter (my oldest boys pc), Elven Ranger (my middle son's), Half-elf Rogue, might MC warlock (my wife's, she loves Rogue/warlocks above all) and my DMPC is an Eladrin Swordmage. Thanks you for you time. I would suggest that you lose the swordmage and make him a leader. If you dislike clerics try the new Bard class, it looks like it will rock and you can use implements or weapons. Since you have new gamers and you are all new to 4E I would suggest a healer/leader of some and not just a pally. My 2 cents on that issue. Markus is right on the money with Loudwater. There is fun places to the north and south to visit and it is near the coast so sea adventures or things that work in chuthulu type sitiations can be used. Give the dragonborn a reason for being in Faerun. He is looking for something that would help his people, perhaps a relic or book of some sort. Maybe he is looking for someone who stole something from his people. You can fit in the bard right there, perhaps make the bard DMnpc a dragonborn Bard. He is helping the lad with the quest. The elven ranger knows of what the dragonborn is seeking. His people have references to a dungeon that could help the quest or a family member gave him a map or heirloom that could help the dragonborn. The half-elf is probably just likes to adventure. You might have all this thought out already though. Whatever they are questing for they need to hit a few famous places to make it work out for them. Plus give them better than average gear here and there and give the items cool names that sound like they should have a history to them. The urge to get more gear similar to what they have could make them learn about the lore of the world.
#9 krownhunter07 Mar 11, 2009 18:07:05	... ... I'm working on backgrounds for my player' 'PC's, so they're in the works at the moment, but I'll let you all know when they are done. I did drop the Swordmage for a Bard, for many of the reasons you stated, and I like the Loudwater suggestions you all gave, thanks. I plan to run the mini-adventures in the FRCG (and now the one in the DMG, thank you very much for the map link, MarkusTay63), then move onto the Specter of Spellguard Tower... so the first few sessions are down. I like starting in the Grey Vale region and I think leaving bits and pieces of lore that they can inquire about is a good idea. lol, FR bedtime stories should be fun, I'll see if I can try that out as well.
#10 rauric Mar 11, 2009 20:54:35	Cool. Bards rock. They are useful , have fun powers and heal. Being able to use a weapon is also an added plus. I would steer away from Shadow/Shar stuff. I would have them work for the Halruaans and their new deal or investigate some Spelscarred stuff. That is new FR goodness. If you want to get into the old FR stuff have them hang in Waterdeep, or better yet the Moonshaes. Perhaps a Moonblade lies in the elfs future and it lies within the Ilses. There ya go, Moonblades and the Moonshaes. That is some realmsian fun.
#11 kerym_ammath Mar 14, 2009 9:03:31	Once you have the players backgrounds down it will be much easier for you to avoid the fist feeding of lore. As long as the stories are directly relevant to the characters likes and dislikes, any lore that is spilled will be relevant to the players. If you stray and try to force feed a plot hook (dripping with gooey bits of lore) that the characters would most likely not care about, then you are going to run into problems. Players have amazing memories when details are relevant to their characters, to them, to the story, not when a DM decides it would be relevant because it fits his idea of cool.
#12 RUMPLESTIX Mar 14, 2009 12:28:00	something you might want to try is wikispaces. they have some free set up space. You can use this to add stories and info and/or to keep a blog for the party. If you use it to print out lore and info, then if they lose their copies they can go to the site to review it. (I'm not usre on the ages or your/your wife's/your children's computer skills...) Also, if you incorporate the blog bit you can use it to incorporate the PCs actions into the narrative of the lore. Sort of like an on-line bard's tale of their exploits. But, as I originally stated, you can place your lore in it as you divulge it to the PCs so they can always access it and referesh their memories. Just a thought.
#13 krownhunter07 Mar 15, 2009 12:56:06	Great ideas and suggestions guys, much appreciated. I'll post the PC's and backgrounds when I'm done. Oh, and I (finally) got my RPGA sign in info up to date, checked out the adventures in and around the Grey Vale and really, really, like the ones they have. So, my plan is to use those and the published core adventures that can fit (if my PC's want a bit of change and to roam the country. I recently got a boatload more minis, found a nice site that lets you buy singles cheap, so I nabbed a Dragonborn that fits my oldest PC perfectly. If all goes well, we should be starting around my b-day (April 2nd), we have our hands full with a newborn at the present, so gaming at an earlier date would be to much of a hassle for noobs. More ideas and suggestions are always welcome and thanks again.
#14 falstyr Mar 20, 2009 10:00:54	Info dumps are bloody annoying. So don't follow half of the advice given here. No required reading, no lectures from npc's that go on and on and on and other nonsense like that. Just do it subtly. Weave a bit of lore in the short descriptions you give of cities or areas the players enter. Give short pieces of background spread through their adventures through rumors, common knowledge etc. It sticks a lot more when giving it to them in small dosages without them noticing it compared to long info dumps from which they will forget most. They'll get bored and want to play and thus such dumps ruining the game for them.
#15 Diffan Mar 25, 2009 7:42:13	I recently got a boatload more minis, found a nice site that lets you buy singles cheap, so I nabbed a Dragonborn that fits my oldest PC perfectly. . I'm always lookin' for good deals on Minis. Could you PM me the site?
#16 krownhunter07 Mar 25, 2009 15:34:54	I'm always lookin' for good deals on Minis. Could you PM me the site? I PM'd you with the links. Hope they help. So, my sister just came to visit with her new husband, so I had the opportunity to show them 4e and see my kids in play a bit before we start our FR game. Sadly, my middle child is still a little too young to focus on the game, but my oldest had a blast and seemed to really enjoy himself (up until he triggered a trap, but even then he had fun). Anyways, I got their PC's and backgrounds up and going, so I'll post them (maybe a new thread detailing my gaming sessions and what not) in the next few days. Thanks again for the suggestions and advice.
#17 Diffan Mar 25, 2009 19:48:57	I PM'd you with the links. Hope they help. Awesome man, thanks.