Show
Gleemax Announcement
Wizards of the Coast today announced the decision to discontinue its Gleemax social networking site in order to focus on digital initiatives for core brands Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons.
“We have the two best games in the world,” said Randy Buehler, VP of Digital Games for Wizards of the Coast, “we need to take care of them before expanding into new digital arenas.”
Redirecting development resources accelerates the completion of new features and functionality for D&D Insider and Magic Online III.
“Wizards still believes in the vision for a social networking site dedicated to hobby gamers,” said Buehler. “We will continue to strive towards that vision through wizards.com.”
Wizards of the Coast today announced the decision to discontinue its Gleemax social networking site in order to focus on digital initiatives for core brands Magic: The Gathering and Dungeons & Dragons.
“We have the two best games in the world,” said Randy Buehler, VP of Digital Games for Wizards of the Coast, “we need to take care of them before expanding into new digital arenas.”
Redirecting development resources accelerates the completion of new features and functionality for D&D Insider and Magic Online III.
“Wizards still believes in the vision for a social networking site dedicated to hobby gamers,” said Buehler. “We will continue to strive towards that vision through wizards.com.”
Maybe just WotCs way of stopping all the nerd rage?
-It's WotCs way or sweeping up a horrible mistake (Gleemax) under the carpet. Or saving money/memory/bandwith/all that good internet stuff.
The DDi is a pipedream.
-:D
18DELTA
The first of many promises not delivered on, mark my words.
The DDi is a pipedream.
Probably will end up like the DMs tools did from 3rd edition. A good idea executed by people who won't hire the right people to make it all work.
If they want a good programmer I am available for a reasonable rate.
-:D
18DELTA
You have no idea how long it took me to 'shop that.
The first of many promises not delivered on, mark my words.
The DDi is a pipedream.
Heh. Look, the reality is that WotC's eyes were too big for their stomach. The Gleemax concept is a worthy (and reasonably selfless) one, but the resources just weren't there to support/build it as it should be done, especially when initiatives such as DDI and a couple of others were suffering as a result.
As with everything, the ideas are the easy part. Finding a way to fund them, now there's the real problem...
Joe
You have no idea how long it took me to 'shop that.
-Given that it made me laugh, it was worth it.
Glad to see it go.
-It wasn't even fully up.
Anyway, glad to see it go.
seriously... chill.
I'm sure we are all THRILLED to see the ugly (vomit) Green Monstrosity go away, so lets take a little pleasure in something together, for a change. ;)
Glad to see it go.
Together the change to Gleemax and 4ED FR is more important than anything WoTc has ever done!
:DThat said, time will tell if this actually results in the other stuff (DDi, these boards, the physical products) being better for it.
The first of many promises not delivered on, mark my words.
The DDi is a pipedream.
Trust me, you don't want DDi to fail. I have been hearing rumors that Hasbro will dump D&D if DDi fails...
Trust me, you don't want DDi to fail. I have been hearing rumors that Hasbro will dump D&D if DDi fails...
-So...where did you hear these 'rumors'?
18DELTA ;)
-So...where did you hear these 'rumors'?
18DELTA ;)
In the Community Business Forum, the thread that also talks about Gleemax's not-so-sad demise.
good, not being part of Hasbro is a good thing imo... maybe D&D can then return to being D&D and not what is best for Hasbro's bottom line...
True, if Hasbro does dump D&D, Wizards will either become its own company or it will be bought by another company that cares more for RPGs, such as Green Ronin. That would probably be better than Hasbro.
Anyway Gleemax drew no glee from me. ;)
In the Community Business Forum, the thread that also talks about Gleemax's not-so-sad demise.
And who said this? Someone actually "in the know", or someone who doesn't actually know anything and is just making huge assumptions? I'm guessing it's the latter. Got a link?
And who said this? Someone actually "in the know", or someone who doesn't actually know anything and is just making huge assumptions? I'm guessing it's the latter. Got a link?
-This is the internet. People say whatever the hell they want.
And who said this? Someone actually "in the know", or someone who doesn't actually know anything and is just making huge assumptions? I'm guessing it's the latter. Got a link?
Here is the link you wanted. Post number 3 is when it is first mentioned.
Here is the link you wanted. Post number 3 is when it is first mentioned.
-Ah, one of those "I read that someone said that he heard" kind of posts. ;)
-Ah, one of those "I read that someone said that he heard" kind of posts. ;)
Still, it is enough to make me worry.
Still, it is enough to make me worry.
Don't be. Looks like a lot of hot air to me. D&D is never even mentioned, and suddenly Hasbro is going to start worrying about the financial prospects related to one aspect of D&D, and is having conference calls about it? Give me a break.
I very much doubt Hasbro gives a damn about any specific aspect of WotC operations. All they care about is WotC turning a profit, period, which it does thanks to Magic. And 4E's doing pretty well, too, but as always, D&D's been the small fry in comparison to Magic and everything else Hasbro has going on.Don't be. Looks like a lot of hot air to me. D&D is never even mentioned, and suddenly Hasbro is going to start worrying about the financial prospects related to one aspect of D&D, and is having conference calls about it? Give me a break.
I have heard that Hasbro owns a few other RPGs, and no content has been released on them for a long time...
Frankly, I think you're worried over nothing, and the poster you linked to is grossly overexaggerating. But hey, it IS the internet, so I shouldn't be surprised.
Odds are, Hasbro never released content for them. Or if they did, they had mediocre sales. There's a difference between owning something and never making it or making it and losing money on it, and owning something, making it, earning a respectable profit off of it, and then dumping it. And the truth is that D&D is earning for them. Not enough to affect the bottomline, but it is earning. 4E, for instance, outsold both 3E and 3.5 on preorders, alone, and sold out a week before its release date. They had no problems continuing it for 8 years, and they're going to dump it, now, when it's earning even more? They're not about to can it. If DDI fails they'll can DDI. That doesn't mean they'll can D&D. Especially since owning D&D gets them other things, like D&D Miniatures, which apparently makes a lot more money than D&D itself. That also gives them the option of potential licenses (movies, tv, video games), not to mention the money they derive from the novel lines, etc.
Frankly, I think you're worried over nothing, and the poster you linked to is grossly overexaggerating. But hey, it IS the internet, so I shouldn't be surprised.
Green Knight, you speak the truth. They probably won't dump D&D, but if they do another company will likely buy the liscense and all will be fine:D
Don't be. Looks like a lot of hot air to me. D&D is never even mentioned, and suddenly Hasbro is going to start worrying about the financial prospects related to one aspect of D&D, and is having conference calls about it? Give me a break.
Yeah, too busy making stuffed ponies and Tonka trucks are they?:P
Knock those stuffed ponies and Tonka trucks all you like, but it appears that Hasbro is raking in somewhere in the vicinity of 3 BILLION per year from them. :P Man, I really need to get some Hasbro stock. Speaking of Hasbro, anyone else wish they'd put out a Transformers RPG and minis game? Man, I would KILL to have those two things. I've been wanting a Transformers RPG for years, as for a minis game? How bad-ass would it be to have a Transformers minis game which is compatible with Star Wars Miniatures? Then we can have fights to the death between the Decepticons and Imperial Storm Troopers! :D
"Playskool plays cool!!!":D
That would be...interesting to say the least. Of course you are setting up nothing more than a Stormtrooper genocide but, I guess that's fun too.
While I don't think it's 'do-or-die' for D&D right now, I AM sure several jobs are on the line if the DDi fails. AS much as some of you may think that would be just splendid, think about it -
Do you really want Hasbro stepping in (and they WILL) and replacing some of our RPG people with corporate muckity-mucks who's only mission is to streamline WotC and increase profitability? D&D is one of Hasbro's least profitable IPs, and although I doubt they'd just dump it, they probably will at least try to turn it into something else first.
Something MUCH WORSE then 4e. I'm picturing 5e D&D becoming a 'toy' - just a detailed miniatures game along the lines of Necromunda, or their own Heroscape game. They would probably do well to sell it (to someone like Paizo), but they WON'T - simply because you don't sell something you can't make work to a competitor who can.
They WOULD rather just retire the IP then sell it, because its all about the bottom line - If Paizo, or any other RPG company for that matter, becomes successful, it means some of that 'toy money' that usually goes Hasbro's way around Christmas, Chanukah, and Birthdays is being funneled elsewhere. Large Corporations buy prduct lines and ideas all the time, for the soul purose of getting them off the market (you know, like how the Gas companys buy-up every patent for alternative-enegry car engines).
So yeah, I could very well see how the failure of the DDi will lead to the eventual end of D&D as we know it. Right now, Hasbro pretty much has a 'hands off' policy in-place with its WotC division, but if it starts to flounder (or its sales see a 'hiccup'), they WILL step in and make changes, and I can pretty much guarantee WE won't like any of them.
So if you love this game, don't be wishing death upon the DDi so soon. ;)
As much as the transformers kinda bug me, the idea of them facing off against stormtroopers does raise my eyebrows in a good sort of way... :D
Agreed. :D
and a lot of it had to do with "defending it's IPs", and the D&D IP is under constant attack ATM.
I think they're more concerned with Scrabble and the like then they are with D&D.
So yeah, I could very well see how the failure of the DDi will lead to the eventual end of D&D as we know it.
Once again, I think this is gross overexaggeration. If DDI fails then they'll can DDI. When you have a successful product, and a failing product, you can the failing product. You don't throw out the successful product, too. And D&D is successful, so they've got no reason to muck about with it. "D&D is one of Hasbro's least profitable IPs", certainly, but it does turn a pretty good profit for what's put into it. 4E's apparently selling better now then 3E and 3.5 and they didn't feel the need to muck about with things during those eight years, so why would they start now when D&D's doing even better?
Really, these fears are a case of extreme tunnel vision. The fans focus on what's going on with D&D because we're fans and that's all we see. But does anyone really, honestly think that Hasbro execs walk around with indigestion wondering if DDI will work, and what to do with D&D? Odds are, most of them don't even know they own D&D! And if somebody mentions it to them, they probably forget that fact five minutes later. Hell, when it comes to WotC they probably think of it solely as the little company they own that puts out the trading card games, if they think of it at all. And if anyone from Hasbro takes a closer look, what'll they see? A line of RPG books which turn a pretty good profit, better then in years past, with an IP that makes them even more money through the sale of miniatures, novels, and licenses for video games. And they're gonna kill all of that just because one facet may not have worked out as planned?
When I worked for Home Depot, they were debating weather to shut-down the store I was in or not - because it was the only store making less then a million a week.
You see, our average of $750,000 a week just wasn't cutting it for them.
The store stayed open because of other considerations - a nearby Loews, and they didn't want to close ANY store (that looks bad to the Shareholders and stocks take a dip).
Anyhow, D&D is 'chump change' to Hasbro - most of those execs are pulling down higher salaries then D&D makes in a year.
Clearly D&D has been profitable enough for the past 8 years to keep it going. If it's been profitable enough, then it's certainly profitable enough after the new core books have sold even better then ever...
Besides, they likely view WotC as a unit, rather then look at its individual parts. So it's really up to WotC whether D&D stays in production or not. And clearly, with the amount of money that WotC's invested into the development of D&D (seven figures for 4E), they think it's a worthwhile product to keep around.
If it isn't 'cutting it' by their standards, they will first try and change it (4e?), and if that doesn't work, they will just axe it.
The DDi was a way to eliminate most of the expense associated with producing the game - printing up all those 'lore books' for the fans. If the DDi takes off, it means better lore and a better game for us in the long run.
If it doesn't, then they we will see a further 'lessening' of the game in 5e... probable something unrecognizable as the D&D we know. It may even go all-digital (a MORPG), which isn't all that bad in-and-of itself, if they can somehow keep the concept of real, live DMs pulling the strings and adjudicating certain things.
Also - when you say "D&D has been profitable enough in the past eight years", you are really talking about WotC. When Hasbro bought it, they were fine with leaving it alone (just like China did with Taiwan - why ruin a good thing?). Now, however, some bean-counter has taken an interest in the numbers and is asking why certain product lines (like the D&D game) aren't doing better?
This is what corporations do - they buy something profitable, and after a few years, they start dissecting it to find what portions are making money and which aren't - and they 'cut out' the 'infections'. Whatever Hasbro exec is in charge of the WotC branch has decided to move himself up the ladder by increasing pofitability of his division - and human beings never come into play in those decisions. We are just bars on a graph, and a lot of times these 'go-getter' corporate types fall on their face when they tinker with a brand.
New Coke, anyone?
I think the 'secret meeting' that began at Gencon all those years ago didn't happen because of the WotC guys - why would they want to mess with their own jobs? I think they were given some sort of outline to follow, and they are doing the best they can within the parameters they were given.
Try to remember, all WE have riding on this is a fantasy setting and game we love - there are a LOT of people who have a real-life stake in D&D. We're not the ones who will truly suffer if the DDi and D&D starts to flounder.
Because, you don't think that the Hasbro exec who came up with this new plan is going to point fingers at himself, do you? thats just not the way it works...
Right, but the game itself is the LEAST profitable portion of the IP.
But it's still profitable. And it's becoming more profitable. Which makes this whole Chicken Little spiel a bit tiresome, as there's no evidence whatsoever to indicate that Hasbro, after nine years of owning the D&D name, is suddenly going to decide to stop publishing altogether.
If it isn't 'cutting it' by their standards, they will first try and change it (4e?), and if that doesn't work, they will just axe it.
Assumption #1: That Hasbro was the impetus behind 4E. A lot of the ideas that went into it are things they've been putting into the game for years. Could they have said "Hey, make a new edition"? Sure. But they sure as hell weren't the driving force behind the rules changes, as the designers have been developing aspects of those rules in different supplements for years. If it was really a case of Hasbro forcing an edition change on WotC, then they could've gone for a quick and easy change like the 3E to 3.5 change and saved a whole lot of time and money while raking in the money for a new edition, but they didn't. Instead WotC spent seven figures developing 4E. It was very likely a WotC decision to make those changes, and it was likely a WotC decision to bring about a new edition in the first place.
If it doesn't, then they we will see a further 'lessening' of the game in 5e... probable something unrecognizable as the D&D we know. It may even go all-digital (a MORPG), which isn't all that bad in-and-of itself, if they can somehow keep the concept of real, live DMs pulling the strings and adjudicating certain things.
Assumption #2: That Hasbro cares at all what the rules system is. I doubt anyone at Hasbro even knows what an RPG is, much less can comment on what a successful RPG game system is and isn't. This bit right here reads like an issue of Knights of the Dinner Table, where Gary Jackson's widow comes in to the company, spends the night reading the game rules, and then tells the Hard Eight guys what rules changes to make. It's not gonna happen.
Also - when you say "D&D has been profitable enough in the past eight years", you are really talking about WotC. When Hasbro bought it, they were fine with leaving it alone (just like China did with Taiwan - why ruin a good thing?). Now, however, some bean-counter has taken an interest in the numbers and is asking why certain product lines (like the D&D game) aren't doing better?
They bought WotC in 1999, before 3E came out. And here's another assumption. That "some bean-counter has taken an interest in the numbers and is asking why certain product lines (like the D&D game) aren't doing better". Says who? Have anything to back this up? And who's to say some bean-counter hasn't taken an interest in the number and is say "Wow, this is doing pretty good for what we're putting into it?". Again, you're making a ton of assumptions, and each and every single one is assuming the absolute worst.
This is what corporations do - they buy something profitable, and after a few years, they start dissecting it to find what portions are making money and which aren't - and they 'cut out' the 'infections'. Whatever Hasbro exec is in charge of the WotC branch has decided to move himself up the ladder by increasing pofitability of his division - and human beings never come into play in those decisions. We are just bars on a graph, and a lot of times these 'go-getter' corporate types fall on their face when they tinker with a brand.
Looking here, this guy has been CEO of WotC for the past 10 years. So it's not as if Hasbro has suddenly decided to put in somebody else to run things. The same guy running things in 1998 is still running things, now. So any reason, other than just another assumption, to believe that a Hasbro guy came over, took over, and is now calling the shots on the day-to-day operations?
I think the 'secret meeting' that began at Gencon all those years ago didn't happen because of the WotC guys - why would they want to mess with their own jobs? I think they were given some sort of outline to follow, and they are doing the best they can within the parameters they were given.
Another assumption.
Try to remember, all WE have riding on this is a fantasy setting and game we love - there are a LOT of people who have a real-life stake in D&D. We're not the ones who will truly suffer if the DDi and D&D starts to flounder.
Yes, there are people who have a real life stake in this. And they're not as blazingly stupid as you think they are, that they'd throw away a profitable line because a digital aspect of that product failed to take off. They didn't close up D&D when Chainmail failed. They didn't close up D&D when E-Tools failed. They didn't close up D&D when the movie license failed to pay off dividends. They didn't close up D&D when any number of video game license projects didn't succeed. Why would they close up D&D with the failure of DDI, assuming it fails at all?
Because, you don't think that the Hasbro exec who came up with this new plan is going to point fingers at himself, do you? thats just not the way it works...
Again you're assuming that there's a Hasbro exec even involved, or even cares, about any of the small fry stuff that WotC is up to. They care about WotC's overall bottom line, and even then, only incidentally, in comparison to the much bigger stuff that Hasbro itself is doing. Hasbro literally makes BILLIONS per year. Quibbling over the specifics about D&D would be like Bill Gates quibbling over the contents of a toddlers piggy bank.
Hasbro, as a huge corporate entity could care less what WotC sells - what it cares about is weather everything they are selling is selling well.
And if you think a parent company never looks over the books of a subsidiary, you've got a lot to learn about business. ;)
You made some assumptions there yourself - I never said Hasbro had any say about what to produce and what not to produce - like I said above, thats doesn't matter to them. What they did say (probably) is that "we would like to see these lines become more profitable: work on that".
And thats it - the WotC guys took that and went their own way with it, and made decisions based on what products in the line made the most money. Hasbro doesn't have to make decisions; only demands.
And large corporations always start dismantling smaller companies they buy after a few years, keeping the parts they like (ie, that make money), and ditching the rest - thats just good business.
But I don't need to prove anything - history will play out the way it always does, and we shall see what we shall see.
Hasbro, as a huge corporate entity could care less what WotC sells - what it cares about is weather everything they are selling is selling well.
And any reason to believe that D&D isn't selling well? From what little we know, it's doing better. WotC is the #1 producer in the RPG market. Not much compared to what Hasbro does, but clearly, in the market it's in, WotC and D&D in general are selling well.
And if you think a parent company never looks over the books of a subsidiary, you've got a lot to learn about business.
I'm sure they do. But you're assuming that they look over them and go into panic mode, or that they're constantly eyeballing WotC and D&D in specific.
You made some assumptions there yourself - I never said Hasbro had any say about what to produce and what not to produce - like I said above, thats doesn't matter to them. What they did say (probably) is that "we would like to see these lines become more profitable: work on that".
Let's say they did say that. Well, D&D has become more profitable. So why would they cancel it when it's become more profitable? If there were a sales dropoff there would be reason to worry. But there isn't. So again, where does this concern come from? I made some assumptions, sure, but at least mine aren't wholly negative at every turn, and contrary to the known facts that we have.
And large corporations always start dismantling smaller companies they buy after a few years, keeping the parts they like (ie, that make money), and ditching the rest - thats just good business.
Not all the time. And not when the IP itself has intrinsic value and gets them other things. Hasbro has as much reason to keep D&D around as AOL/Time-Warner has to keep DC Comics around. It's a small business, and doesn't net them much of any cash, but the IP itself has value in other areas. So as long as it's turning a profit, there's no reason to take it apart.
But I don't need to prove anything - history will play out the way it always does, and we shall see what we shall see.
Easy to say that when you have no proof, and what little proof there is contradicts your supposition. This is a conspiracy theory, pure and simple. One with zero basis in fact and built on a house of cards. Sorry if that comes off insulting, but man, I really hate reading through conspiracy theories.
I assume that a corporation that paid $325 million dollars for a subsidiary would take an active intrerest in said sunsidiary, and you assume they wouldn't?
Who's grasping at straws here?
From a 2002 WotC layoff notice -
While these types of moves are always difficult, our competitive industry demands that we operate as efficiently as possible. For example, as part of Hasbro’s U.S. Games Segment, we can take advantage of the leverage afforded by utilizing shared services available across the broader Hasbro organization instead of maintaining duplicate functions at additional expense.
Downsizing caused directly by affiliation with the parent company. :D
WotC had its own services in place, and Hasbro 'insisted' it use theirs.
Yeah... I have absolutely no basis for thinking someone would want to know what their 325 million is doing for them. :P