I was just cruising about on Amazon and 'low and behold' the FRCG is currently atop the Amazon 'Gaming' bestsellers list. Preorders for the FRPG are at number 5 and the FRCG is even beating the KOTOR Campaign Guide (which, unlike the FRCG is treated around here, is being lauded as one of the great game supplements of its time by SAGA fans). The FRCG has even broken into the top 20 on the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Books bestsellers list, something only the 3/3.5 PHB managed to do I believe.
I for one think this is tremendous news and I am currenty enjoying both 4E in general and the FRCG in particular a tremendous amount. Congrats WotC and in particular Ed, Bruce and Chris... WELL DONE!
Hello all!
I was just cruising about on Amazon and 'low and behold' the FRCG is currently atop the Amazon 'Gaming' bestsellers list. Preorders for the FRPG are at number 5 and the FRCG is even beating the KOTOR Campaign Guide (which, unlike the FRCG is treated around here, is being lauded as one of the great game supplements of its time by SAGA fans). The FRCG has even broken into the top 20 on the Sci-Fi/Fantasy Books bestsellers list, something only the 3/3.5 PHB managed to do I believe.
I for one think this is tremendous news and I am currenty enjoying both 4E in general and the FRCG in particular a tremendous amount. Congrats WotC and in particular Ed, Bruce and Chris... WELL DONE!
Well it isn't good newsfor FR fans who do dislike the New Realm...shrug
It is defintly bad news for the LGS....
Anyway anytime someone brings up Amazon sells it is usualy argued that it is a very small picture...shrug personaly I think there top lists are made up to garner interest in a book....
And Mamma Mia is the topselling DVD. What's your point?
If there is a way to beat this logic, I do not know it.
And Mamma Mia is the topselling DVD. What's your point?
I didn't post this to start an argument... why the negativity? You're absolutely right that sales don't represent quality, I'm just happy because the products selling will likely improve the odds of continued support for the Realms through DDI. I'd love an 'enhanced' write-up like we received for Cormyr covering a bunch of other areas and the print products being popular seems to me to be the best way to get this.
So... what's with the negativity?
I didn't post this to start an argument... why the negativity? You're absolutely right that sales don't represent quality, I'm just happy because the products selling will likely improve the odds of continued support for the Realms through DDI. I'd love an 'enhanced' write-up like we received for Cormyr covering a bunch of other areas and the print products being popular seems to me to be the best way to get this.
So... what's with the negativity?
Sorry, we're just upset with the FRCG.
I, for one, am very glad that sales are good for these books. I want to see Wizards change their plan and put out MORE Realms books.
And, to address the "not good for the LGS" comment above, I bought my book at a local gaming store for the full (high) retail price of $40, simply because I like to give my FLGS my business. It's up to the individual to help keep those stores going, but it's tough to compete with the discounted prices of online retailers. I buy about half from Amazon, half from the LGS. But for the insurance of the survival f this hobby, and the Realms specifically, sales are sales, and I hope they sell a LOT!
Thank you for letting me know that I didn't wander into the Twilight Zone there for a minute... and I'm all for supporting the local GS, but I don't have a reliable one in Reno anymore so Amazon has been a lifesaver.
To those that are 'angry' about the FRCG, why? If you don't like it, don't buy it I guess. Or if you've already done so... why'd you do it in the first place? It fits my GMing style very well and is full of ideas. Now I feel more than equipped to move my Keep on the Shadowfell game fully into the Realms and at the moment that's at the top of my gaming wish list.
Diolch yn fawr OP.
Well...its Bile Fascination I suppose. That's why they bought it.
Or, perhaps, the designers have put out a quality product!
Greenwood, Cordell, and the others are all excellent game designers and storytellers. I am having a great time re-discovering the Realms. Not everything in the new setting is my cup of tea, but that's the way it has always been, since 1st edition AD&D!
I understand some people don't like it but good grief. 
18DELTA
I didn't post this to start an argument... why the negativity? You're absolutely right that sales don't represent quality, I'm just happy because the products selling will likely improve the odds of continued support for the Realms through DDI. I'd love an 'enhanced' write-up like we received for Cormyr covering a bunch of other areas and the print products being popular seems to me to be the best way to get this.
So... what's with the negativity?
I would like to take a second to answear this...
1) I veiw 4th edition and the new Realms to be negative as some other here on this board. So I took your post to be excessively negative and a little rubbing oiut nose in it. Well not really but I am sure some people did. My post was to point out there is other people who wouldn't agree that it is good news though.( Personaly I am happy that people do like it I just wished I could do).
2) My comment stems from the fact that the large new gamer market they want to tap in is not likely too go to Amazon and just buy the books...but to go to a LGS and get introduce to it and buy it from there...now news of this happening would mean 4th edition and the new Realms are successful but Amazon sale I don't think indicate this...and increase Amazon sales is bad for the LGS.
3) Also I have found Amazons to be a pretty bad indicator of sales of a book in the past...I have seen the numbers change from day to day...and really it is a small sampling to go by anyway.
I guess my main point though is that what you veiw as positive other might not think so. It is in the eye of the beholder after all.
So where are we now, then?
Personally, it's fine that someone likes 4E... but what I don't like is when they start to trumpet that, and get 'in my face' about it - because the undertone I hear is that same line that WoTC tried to feed us. "4E FR is so totally awesome!!! (and the old version SUCKS! HAHAHAHA)" Now, while on a logical level I realize this probably isn't the intention of many posters, this is how it comes off. Words and intentions are not always equal or clear even in real life, and it's much less clear on the internet.
The same is true of the reverse - I suspect many 4E FR fans get ****** when they hear critiques of the new material, because they're hearing the undertone of "And this is (part of) why the old version was so superior" in the same way.
Further, the Campaign Settings have always sold well. They did in 3rd Edition too. The reason they aren't putting out more supplements is because they never sold that well and because they are only of use to fans of that setting. Heck, they've even tried to make the campaign settings themselves appealing and highly useful to those not using the setting, which is why the Swordmage is in the FRPG, and the first sidebar in the FRCG is ''No FR' No Problem!'
I'm sure there will be a few articles in DDI, at least till Eberron rolls round.
I hope it continues and they decide to make more FR products in the near future.
1) I veiw 4th edition and the new Realms to be negative as some other here on this board. So I took your post to be excessively negative and a little rubbing oiut nose in it. Well not really but I am sure some people did. My post was to point out there is other people who wouldn't agree that it is good news though.( Personaly I am happy that people do like it I just wished I could do).
...
I guess my main point though is that what you veiw as positive other might not think so. It is in the eye of the beholder after all.
Hmm, the title of the thread says "Good News for 4E realms fans". So the fact that the people with negative comments coming in here and crying that 4E FR fans such as the OP are rubbing it in the non-fans' faces is hypocritical. WHY come into the thread for fans and start complaining and flaming when you wouldn't since your not a fan? It just shows everyone that those people are intentionally being rude and offensive. It just boggles my mind.
Hmm, the title of the thread says "Good News for 4E realms fans". So the fact that the people with negative comments coming in here and crying that 4E FR fans such as the OP are rubbing it in the non-fans' faces is hypocritical. WHY come into the thread that a non-fan wouldn't and start complaining and flaming when you wouldn't since your not a fan? It just boggles my mind.
Because its not "good news" for anyone. Its sales. It shows how many people bought what product, not its quality, or how well received it was. Ratings truly show how well it did, but not even those are enough to show quality.
The OP thought it was good news, I agree... so that's two of us at the least.
Because its not "good news" for anyone. Its sales. It shows how many people bought what product, not its quality, or how well received it was. Ratings truly show how well it did, but not even those are enough to show quality.
Okay, then why not start their own thread and call it, "Bad news for 4E FR anti-fans who happened to have bought the FRCG"? Why go into someone's thread who was obviously sincere in his joy of the product selling well and start bringing him down? It just speaks of how much hostility there is in the boards here.
Okay, then why not start their own thread and call it, "Bad news for 4E FR anti-fans who happened to have bought the FRCG"? Why go into someone's thread who was obviously sincere in his joy of the product selling well and start bringing him down? It just speaks of how much hostility there is in the boards here.
That is why I am exploring the possibility of starting a 4e FR message board separate from WotC, similar to Candlekeep or a few others out there, that will give 4e FR a place to be discussed and built on without constant harassment from those who are dissatisfied with the direction the setting has taken. It will not be available for a little while, since legal and hosting issues need to be addressed, but I have made it a focus for myself.
That is why I am exploring the possibility of starting a 4e FR message board separate from WotC, similar to Candlekeep or a few others out there, that will give 4e FR a place to be discussed and built on without constant harassment from those who are dissatisfied with the direction the setting has taken. It will not be available for a little while, since legal and hosting issues need to be addressed, but I have made it a focus for myself.
That would be awesome and I'll help out anyway I can... if you need/want it.
That is why I am exploring the possibility of starting a 4e FR message board separate from WotC, similar to Candlekeep or a few others out there, that will give 4e FR a place to be discussed and built on without constant harassment from those who are dissatisfied with the direction the setting has taken. It will not be available for a little while, since legal and hosting issues need to be addressed, but I have made it a focus for myself.
I, for one, look forward to seeing the 4E Realms going from this forum.
It also has an average rating of 4.5 on Amazon, a full 2 points higher then the 4th Edition FRCG. Which is pretty impressive.
Okay, then why not start their own thread and call it, "Bad news for 4E FR anti-fans who happened to have bought the FRCG"? Why go into someone's thread who was obviously sincere in his joy of the product selling well and start bringing him down? It just speaks of how much hostility there is in the boards here.
Seconded. I like eating meat. You don't see me going to websites that are filled with vegans trying to convince them of the benefits of meat. While I'm certainly allowed to do so I don't think my post would be taken seriously. And it would make me look kind of stupid I imagine. I just don't understand the need to post something negative in every thread about something positive about 4ED/4ED FRCS.
I didn't post this to start an argument... why the negativity? You're absolutely right that sales don't represent quality, I'm just happy because the products selling will likely improve the odds of continued support for the Realms through DDI. I'd love an 'enhanced' write-up like we received for Cormyr covering a bunch of other areas and the print products being popular seems to me to be the best way to get this.
So... what's with the negativity?
I am the exact opposite. I was hoping for a real bust so we could get back the real Realms
I am the exact opposite. I was hoping for a real bust so we could get back the real Realms
And, yet, you know that no such thing will happen. Why continue to hope?
It is also elitism at it's finest. Strangely so close to how radical otaku can be, note.
And, yet, you know that no such thing will happen. Why continue to hope?
Complaining is what most likely or partly caused the advent of the 4E Realms. This is no different, just reversed. It probably will never go away entirely either, just like the complaints against the old Realms never stopped.
Okay, then why not start their own thread and call it, "Bad news for 4E FR anti-fans who happened to have bought the FRCG"? Why go into someone's thread who was obviously sincere in his joy of the product selling well and start bringing him down? It just speaks of how much hostility there is in the boards here.
Wait a minute I am sorry I consider my self very much a pro-FR fan...that is my problem with the New 'Realms'...it is not the Realms...and it is very negative product.
It was people's NEGATIVE comments on these boards and at conventions about Elminster, the Seven Sisters, Mystra, the Weave, etc. that result in this New 'Realms'. So now you want us not to be 'negative' about this? Where were you when the true anti-Realms fans were ripping the setting apart?
Wait a minute I am sorry I consider my self very much a pro-FR fan...that is my problem with the New 'Realms'...it is not the Realms...and it is very negative product.
It was people's NEGATIVE comments on these boards and at conventions about Elminster, the Seven Sisters, Mystra, the Weave, etc. that result in this New 'Realms'. So now you want us not to be 'negative' about this? Where were you when the true anti-Realms fans were ripping the setting apart?
Internet comments probably did not change anything. Sales, Marketing and some suits most likely made the changes.
Internet comments probably did not change anything. Sales, Marketing and some suits most likely made the changes.
Not according to the designers....
Not according to the designers....
I would love to see the thread that stated that the internet caused the changes to the FR. Perhaps some of their marketing that took place on the internet helped them to determine the things that many potential consumers did not like about the FR.
I do not think many complaint posts are the cause of anything and do not effect any real change. After a year of complaining the Spellplague still was used. The designers did not listen to those internet folks complaining.
I would love to see the thread that stated that the internet caused the changes to the FR. Perhaps some of their marketing that took place on the internet helped them to determine the things that many potential consumers did not like about the FR.
I do not think many complaint posts are the cause of anything and do not effect any real change. After a year of complaining the Spellplague still was used. The designers did not listen to those internet folks complaining.
Not just the internet but conversation at Cons...actualy I really think the changed happened because they just didn't like the Realms...but that is just my opinion.
No matter if the designers made their decisions based on the complaints or not, they are aware of the complaints at the least. They showed a decent knowledge of these complaints, enough to use them in marketing the new Realms. It also seems like they wanted to gear aspects of the new Realms towards that demographic. Also remember the original complainers continued their arguments for years.
Craping in every 'pro' 4e FR thread until it gets closed is a rotten thing to do.
We get it, you're hurt. There are plenty of threads already here that say as much. Go back to them and let people happy and/or excited about the Realms have some peace for God's sake.
Craping in every 'pro' 4e FR thread until it gets closed is a rotten thing to do.
It's also rotten to see many discussions on certain god(desse)s and characters of the Old Realms get crapped on the same way back in the day. The Old Realms bashing on these forums, on the main D&D boards, and elsewhere were really spectacular to behold. Just saying, this is not something new or unforeseen. The people who originally hated the Realms refined these negativity techniques into an art, some of the old fans being on the receiving end of those complaints can't help but pick up a few pointers in that regard.
Wait a minute I am sorry I consider my self very much a pro-FR fan...that is my problem with the New 'Realms'...it is not the Realms...and it is very negative product.
It was people's NEGATIVE comments on these boards and at conventions about Elminster, the Seven Sisters, Mystra, the Weave, etc. that result in this New 'Realms'. So now you want us not to be 'negative' about this? Where were you when the true anti-Realms fans were ripping the setting apart?
That is your opinion and I respect it. I can empathize as some of my favorite characters/etc are gone. But it's happened, and it's done.
As someone else has pointed out, I highly doubt the "true anti-realms fans" did anything of the sort that resulted in 4E Realms. Ultimately, it is the designers who "butchered" the Realms.
ANd please, don't start flaming at me for ASKING people not to start a flame war in a thread that does not even call for it. If you want to be negative, there are MANY other threads DEDICATED to hating the 4E Realms for such discussions.
And who are you to demand me to account for my whereabouts? Where were YOU? Did you have the power to stop the changes? If you didn't, what makes you think I had any myself? Srsly ...
It's also rotten to see many discussions on certain god(desse)s and characters of the Old Realms get crapped on the same way back in the day. The Old Realms bashing on these forums, on the main D&D boards, and elsewhere were really spectacular to behold. Just saying, this is not something new or unforeseen. The people who originally hated the Realms refined these negativity techniques into an art, some of the old fans being on the receiving end of those complaints can't help but pick up a few pointers in that regard.
You mean because people did that in the past it is ok to do it now? An old quote comes to mind... "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
-Everyone has the right to express their opinions, as weird or extreme or nonsensical as they may seem. In a broad category with a lot of subject matter to cover, you're going to get plenty of different opinions. If you take offense to something, don't think something belongs here, think someone crossed the line, report it, and leave it as that. If the person is at fault for whatever it is you are claiming them of being at fault of, a WizO will take care of it, and that's that.
And who are you to demand me to account for my whereabouts? Where were YOU? Did you have the power to stop the changes? If you didn't, what makes you think I had any myself? Srsly ...
um you misread what I wrote..I did not say you were in anyway responisble for any changes etc. I asked pretty much did you post similar thing to the old Realm bashers as you do now? That is all. Me I know I did or ignored them...or even sometimes defended them when they made a point.
Sorry LK didn't scroll down to the end...I'll be good.
You mean because people did that in the past it is ok to do it now? An old quote comes to mind... "Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it."
What exactly is so dooming if repeated? This is not exactly a congress or parliament deciding on war, taxes, funding/spending or anything serious and real world like that.
What changed so that the new detractors should take the moral high ground, because the former complainers actually like the new setting? A few phrases that come to mind, "quid pro quo," "*** for tat," and "an eye for an eye - makes the whole world go blind." Think about those for a bit. I'm not saying this situation is ideal, but it's simply a very natural outcome.
Is a fan reaction like this typical? Yeah. Is it silly? Sure. It'll die down when Eberron gets it's turn.