And a few of us are Realms fans too, so I'm trying to make sure everyone gets something they enjoy in setting up our new campaign.
Anyone have suggestions for certain nations or regions of the 4e Realms that have a dark fantasy feel to them already?
My brother mentioned Thay - any other suggestions I can add to the list?
Apparently, Eberron (non-FR of course) has a dark fantasy/grittier element to it too, but we just never had the time to try yet another campaign setting in 3e. Might look into this too - I would welcome a brand new campaign setting as well, so long as we get the dark fantasy feel.
Hi everyone, my friends and I are wrapping up our current default setting points of light campaign, and one theme or sort of flavor a few of the players would like is a darker, grittier fantasy campaign for our next one. Examples of the feel we're looking for: The Coldfire Trilogy by C.S. Friedman, the Midnight campaign setting from 3e (the "if Sauron had won" world), and even Game of Thrones.
And a few of us are Realms fans too, so I'm trying to make sure everyone gets something they enjoy in setting up our new campaign.
Anyone have suggestions for certain nations or regions of the 4e Realms that have a dark fantasy feel to them already?
My brother mentioned Thay - any other suggestions I can add to the list?
Apparently, Eberron (non-FR of course) has a dark fantasy/grittier element to it too, but we just never had the time to try yet another campaign setting in 3e. Might look into this too - I would welcome a brand new campaign setting as well, so long as we get the dark fantasy feel.
Definitely Thay, though the themes there would weigh more toward undead. Vaasa and Damara are also very dark, and are even darker now than before the Spellplague, imo. With the noted assassination of the Damaran king in 4E, the "recovery" of Damara has likely swung far back into chaos. The Underdark is also a good place for dark, gritty campaigns, even more so with the vast changes that have taken place all over the Underdark.
Sembia would be perfect for some dark intrigue laced roleplaying, considering the mostly unseen but oppressive influence of the Netherese Enclave and its Shades.
I think Evereska or its surroundings in the North might be a very cool setting for dark fantasy tales if done right too. Play up the dark fey aspects of the resident elves for extra nailbiting tension and you might pull off such a campaign to the dark side of the Realms.
Eberron can be pretty dark. The entire plays lives in the aftermath of a war that has devastated the continent.
And, of course, there is Dark Sun. Dark Sun is dark, with a helping of dark sauce, and a dark cherry on top.
-Translating this into the Forgotten Realms, crime, and such themes are applicable anywhere and everywhere. The city-state of Waterdeep, priding itself in being such a cultured hub of civilization, has Skullport beneath it- and all of the riff-raff that stems from there. The current theocracy of Eltargurd has a ruling elite that comes off as highly dogmatic, fundamental, and intolerant- rife breeding grounds for "dark, gritty" fantasy involving conspiratorial clergymen and laymen, heretical knoweledge, and the like.
Hi everyone, my friends and I are wrapping up our current default setting points of light campaign, and one theme or sort of flavor a few of the players would like is a darker, grittier fantasy campaign for our next one. Examples of the feel we're looking for: The Coldfire Trilogy by C.S. Friedman, the Midnight campaign setting from 3e (the "if Sauron had won" world), and even Game of Thrones.
And a few of us are Realms fans too, so I'm trying to make sure everyone gets something they enjoy in setting up our new campaign.
Anyone have suggestions for certain nations or regions of the 4e Realms that have a dark fantasy feel to them already?
My brother mentioned Thay - any other suggestions I can add to the list?
Apparently, Eberron (non-FR of course) has a dark fantasy/grittier element to it too, but we just never had the time to try yet another campaign setting in 3e. Might look into this too - I would welcome a brand new campaign setting as well, so long as we get the dark fantasy feel.
Wow. I don't come across people who know the Coldfire Trilogy all that often (though I suppose I don't often ask). I love those books! The FR location that matches the feeling of that particular setting best for me is Impiltur, probably due to the fallen royal line and consorting with demons combination. Also, the area seems pretty wide open storywise. Geographically, if later you wanted to expand the dark campaign you could cross the sea west to Sembia and Netheril or head east into neighboring Narfell, Rashemen, and/or Thay.
Hi everyone, my friends and I are wrapping up our current default setting points of light campaign, and one theme or sort of flavor a few of the players would like is a darker, grittier fantasy campaign for our next one. Examples of the feel we're looking for: The Coldfire Trilogy by C.S. Friedman, the Midnight campaign setting from 3e (the "if Sauron had won" world), and even Game of Thrones.
And a few of us are Realms fans too, so I'm trying to make sure everyone gets something they enjoy in setting up our new campaign.
Anyone have suggestions for certain nations or regions of the 4e Realms that have a dark fantasy feel to them already?
My brother mentioned Thay - any other suggestions I can add to the list?
Apparently, Eberron (non-FR of course) has a dark fantasy/grittier element to it too, but we just never had the time to try yet another campaign setting in 3e. Might look into this too - I would welcome a brand new campaign setting as well, so long as we get the dark fantasy feel.
I'm running a campaign in Luskan, and it's working out to be quite dark and gritty. I started with a simple idea: my PCs are Sellswords, hired by a major slave trader to recover some "merchandise" that was stolen. The PCs didn't know the nature of the merchandise, and I figured in my planning that when they discovered that the "goods" were actually spellscarred children for sale to the Halruan market, they'd rebel, kill the slavers, etc. But no. Instead, they killed the parents, who'd "stolen" their kids back from the slavers and then frog-marched the poor kids back to the slave pens. As you might imagine, wackiness ensued.
Anyway, there are a lot of good places for a potentially dark campaign. I think "dark" is more a function of intentions, motivation, and quest objective. For example, you could set a "dark" campaign in Silverymoon if you make your characters a bunch of monstrous race humanoids who're persecuted by the local (mistrusting) Church of Tyr. Heck, even in Sliverymoon, I bet goblins would have to steal to eat. Who'd serve them in an inn or even sell them something in a marketplace?
But some specific "dark" places might be:
- Luskan
- Mist Shore (in Waterdeep Harbor)
- Athkatla in Amn
- Calimport (where evil elemental overlords have enslaved humanity)
- Shade Enclave
- Sembia
There are a bunch more, but those are the ones on the top of my head.
Danno-boy, you have it laid out properly. But, much like Thay, Luskan is a one dimensional town these days. There is no room for true expansion.
What do you mean?
Danno-boy, you have it laid out properly. But, much like Thay, Luskan is a one dimensional town these days. There is no room for true expansion.
What do you mean?
-I can't talk for Dookie, but I understand (I think) what he means, and agree. Luskan, now, has a large, specific emphasis leaning on it- that is, it is a "city" of lawlessness, where almost anything goes, such as gang rule, vigalante law, and so forth. It is one dimensional in that the above concept fully governs Luskan, currently, in terms of design management. Case in point, turning Luskan into a magocratic city-state run by a powerful central government controlled by Elves completely alters how we percieve Luskan right now- such a government would almost be a complete 180 of how Luskan is, currently. Thay, in the past, and still true today, is/was also governed by a specific central concept that, if changed, would alter Thay in a dramatic way- that being the rule of Szass Tam (either supported by other zukirs, or seperate), a mighty Archmage with aspirations of even greater power and grandeur. Removing Szass Tam would fundamentally alter Thay.
What do you mean?
Yes, Karsus nailed it.
As to the matter at hand, depends on what you want. If its for the horrors of the undead, Thay works just as well, if not better, as most places.
If you want intrigue laden stories with shades of gray, lessers of many evils, and no real good guys, Luskan can work just great if you keep it somewhat street level.
High end stuff, you could run some truly heinous stuff in Waterdeep with just a few changes to a noble family or two, though really it could work for street level stuff just as well as it could for more rarefied salons and the like. There's so many often forgotten corners of that city that you can make a fairly good case for just about anything. Same can definitely be said for Raven's Bluff, Calimport (back when it still existed), Zazesspurr, or even Athkatla. From what I recall of the 4e Realms (never bothered actually buying it), Athkatla seems like a great place to run some really dark tales, as does Amn in general.
What do you mean?
Yes, Karsus nailed it.
Neat. I just couldn't figure out exactly what you were saying. Karsus's explenation makes sense.
Yeah it might be 1 dimensional in the book, but really its up to us gamers to add some dimension to it...
-Adding "dimension to it" doesn't address what I meant. You can add "dimension" to a place like Thay, and give it 'characterization' to suit you, but you have to work within the lines already drawn up, lest the concept be changed such that your end result doesn't radically differ from your starting point. That is, if you tailor Luskan to be that theoretical theocracy governed by Lawful Good Elves, you're erasing enough lines such that your original starting point hardly matches your ending point. Compare that to a place like Waterdeep, where the bounds for alteration are much wider. One-dimensional does not mean no detail, or no ability to alter, but how much leeway the concept you have gives you.
Neat. I just couldn't figure out exactly what you were saying. Karsus's explenation makes sense.
-That seems to have happened a lot, over the years...
With a 26250 post count? I should hope so!
-I was just talking about Dookie.
Swordboy, as much as I hate to agree with Karsus right now, his statement is correct concerning the one dimensional nature of Luskan.
Well I can see your guys point on Thay, but they leave Luskan pretty open ended in my opinion, unless they went in alot of detail in a recent novel that ive missed, havnt read any of the 4e ones yet. I think theres alot of potential there to do what you wanted with out breaking from canon. But I definitely agree with Waterdeep, all kindsa potential there. Waterdeeps a big place, room for just about anything there. One of the things Ive always loved about Waterdeep. You could run a good long campaign there and never actually leave the city.
Nothing personal--just seems like you skipped some valid points here.
So...did you even read the comments on either of those locals? Or did you simply assume that neither was worth your time?
Nothing personal--just seems like you skipped some valid points here.
Yes I dont post until I read whats what. Which locals do you mean? Thay and Luskan? or Waterdeep? And which valid points do you think i missed? I did mention that it was my opinion. Sure Luskan is lawless now, but im just saying theres alot you could do with that. Like maybe some undead pirate gangs or something. I personally think that they leave it open enough that you could add in alot there to really flesh it out. Im not trying to be argumentive or anything, just stating, what i feel is, a valid point.
To clarify i mean that there is a definite power structure in place in Thay (Szass Tam), but not so in Luskan. For all we know the Arcane Brotherhood is still there doing gods know what.
Yes, you are correct on flexibility, but the the point was "dark". Waterdeep need not apply.
I thought the same thing at first too, but after thinking about it, it could work. Waterdeeps a big place, you could add in almost anything and not deviate from canon. And it is the most fleshed out city of the Realms so that makes it a good starting point for any campaign, what ever style youre goin for. Waterdeep wasnt hit as hard by the spellplauge, so alot of the stuff from past editions could still aply. The 4e map of Waterdeep is pretty much the same.
The dock ward looks a little more jumbled to me, but thats the only difference i see.
Danno-boy, you have it laid out properly. But, much like Thay, Luskan is a one dimensional town these days. There is no room for true expansion.
I can find a lot of ways of using Luskan myself in a variety of capacities - smuggling or any other kind of criminal interests, use of the place as a base of operations for other nefarious interests, strange cultist activity taking over and such forth. For a "Dark" campaign I feel it would work very well, equal to or better than Waterdeep for characters with a generally unaligned background in a "dark" campaign.
Waterdeep wouldn't really fit a "dark" campaign as well in my eyes, whereas Luskan is perfect for it and can be as gritty and miserable as you want. Given the place can be altered at whim for various power groups, activities and anything else whereas Waterdeep is more stable (and detailed) I would personally pick Luskan over waterdeep. Waterdeep could be used in such a factor though by using the primarily underground regions and adding further liberal doses of corruption about to support the campaign.
If I was thinking about dark in FR I would be running a campaign in pretty much anywhere the Spellplague had a considerable effect or the likes of Thay. Thay is a horrible miserable place for people who are still alive in there, as they are enslaved and then used as a combination of workforce/foodsource for the various Undead there. That could be both dark and potentially extremely gritty, with the heroic tier involving getting out of Thay and the possibility of higher tiers being about returning more as liberators. Possibly still heroic could focus on finding someone lost in the middle of Thay, itself not an easy task given how hospitable it is and moving on from that point.
Eberron if you're looking at another campaign setting has a fantastic Dark Fantasy feel in the continent of Xen'Drik. If you want to look at that, I would highly recommend you to get Secrets of Xen'Drik and the 4E Eberron Campaign Guide.
Waterdeep wouldn't really fit a "dark" campaign as well in my eyes...
-Skullport. The Mos Eisley Cantina of Faerûn. A wretched hive of scum and villainy.
You're probably thinking that's a stupid thing to say considering that there is a permanent artificial sun there but, imagine if the "holy" leadership of this nation is actually a cover for worshippers of Cyric? Amongst other things, there is a ritual being prepared to transform the artificial sun into a giant representation of Cyric's unholy symbol and stopping this ritual and its preparations becomes the goal of the campaign.
IMC, the leadership of Elturgard is made up of worshippers of Amaunator rather than Torm. IMO, Amaunator has always had more potential for corruption than other LG deities because, in his heart, he is nothing other than a tyrant. Sure, he cloaks himself with the bright light of the sun but his heart desires to rule all. He's just a sunny version of Bane... or is he?
Imagine a ruling group of undying pontiffs who are secretly liches in disguise. Imagine vampires, of a sort, that are sustained by the light of the artificial sun, and the real son, and blood (and faith... I love the Monte Cook-inspired idea of faithless/false vampires that feed upon the faith of the faithful) but are slain when exposed to night or magical darkness. These vampires are the inquisitors of the undying pontiffs. They don't seek out the faithless but the faithful.
Imagine the paranoia and distrust in such a land and there you have your dark fantasy campaign.
- Fought goblin tribesmen blockading the city, just to get in.
- Bribed halfling street toughs to find our way around
- Worked for slavers, worked as slavers
- Fought in a drow arena for the pleasure of Jarlaxle and his minions
- Went to the Shadowfell and fought Sharrans trying to use Luskan as a potential Netherese base.
- And now we're on our way to Athkatla to sell our slaves in the markets... but we had a shipwreck.
At this point, the campaign is becoming a Stronghold Quest. The guys are trying to take over Luskan and rebuild it as a Slaver's Paradise. It ought to be interesting. Pretty soon the Paladins of Torm and/or Illmater are gonna show up. And, of course, Jarlaxle will eventually try to re-assert control.
I think Elturgard could be a fantastic setting for a dark fantasy campaign.
You're probably thinking that's a stupid thing to say considering that there is a permanent artificial sun there but, imagine if the "holy" leadership of this nation is actually a cover for worshippers of Cyric? Amongst other things, there is a ritual being prepared to transform the artificial sun into a giant representation of Cyric's unholy symbol and stopping this ritual and its preparations becomes the goal of the campaign.
IMC, the leadership of Elturgard is made up of worshippers of Amaunator rather than Torm. IMO, Amaunator has always had more potential for corruption than other LG deities because, in his heart, he is nothing other than a tyrant. Sure, he cloaks himself with the bright light of the sun but his heart desires to rule all. He's just a sunny version of Bane... or is he?
Imagine a ruling group of undying pontiffs who are secretly liches in disguise. Imagine vampires, of a sort, that are sustained by the light of the artificial sun, and the real son, and blood (and faith... I love the Monte Cook-inspired idea of faithless/false vampires that feed upon the faith of the faithful) but are slain when exposed to night or magical darkness. These vampires are the inquisitors of the undying pontiffs. They don't seek out the faithless but the faithful.
Imagine the paranoia and distrust in such a land and there you have your dark fantasy campaign.
-That's exactly what I said. Nothing seems more...evil than evil coming from a source that is supposed to be the antithesis of evil. The "betrayal" of confidence by those in those kinds positions of power and authority "feel" the worst. That's why, when a 'regular' sex offender molests some kind, it gets a little column in the newspaper, if even that. But, when a priest/rabbi/imam/magi/whatever else molests a kid, that's big time news, netting time on the evening news...
I'm surprised nobody thought about a city in the Underdark... eg. Menzo.
Wouldn't be a bad time to start considering that as an option given the Underdark sourcebook is coming out next month.
Wouldn't be a bad time to start considering that as an option given the Underdark sourcebook is coming out next month.
-Online DRAGON magazines have "themes", like the print ones did, no? If so, if that book is coming out soon, I'd expect at least one article involving the Forgotten Realms and it's Underdark.
Wouldn't be a bad time to start considering that as an option given the Underdark sourcebook is coming out next month.
Core is not something I would apply here completely.
-Online DRAGON magazines have "themes", like the print ones did, no? If so, if that book is coming out soon, I'd expect at least one article involving the Forgotten Realms and it's Underdark.
Again, its a "core" book. I highly doubt there will be any mention or favor given to any setting.
Again, its a "core" book. I highly doubt there will be any mention or favor given to any setting.
-I was just talking about the online magazine articles. If they use themes, which I know the old ones did, than if there's an Underdark theme, which there's a good chance there might be, there's likely to be a Forgotten Realms article. It would be nice if the mundane rulebooks had "In Faerûn..." sections, like some of the 3e Monster Manuals had, but Rich Baker's already said that that kind of stuff is unlikely to appear in books, as opposed to possibly being found in online articles, so...
-I'm taking bets right now: Who thinks that if there is a Forgotten Realms article related to the Underdark, it'll have something to do with Menzoberranzan? Seemingly, what isn't about Menzoberranzan?
-I was just talking about the online magazine articles. If they use themes, which I know the old ones did, than if there's an Underdark theme, which there's a good chance there might be, there's likely to be a Forgotten Realms article. It would be nice if the mundane rulebooks had "In Faerûn..." sections, like some of the 3e Monster Manuals had, but Rich Baker's already said that that kind of stuff is unlikely to appear in books, as opposed to possibly being found in online articles, so...
Well, since neither of us actually knows **** at this point concerning DDI, we'll just have to wait for someone "enlightened"....
Well, since neither of us actually knows **** at this point concerning DDI, we'll just have to wait for someone "enlightened"....
Well, we'll just have to wait for someone who's "Enlightened" to show up, In the mean time i can tell you that no, Dragon no longer follows a theme like they used to, at least not that i have noticed any way.
Well, we'll just have to wait for someone who's "Enlightened" to show up, In the mean time i can tell you that no, Dragon no longer follows a theme like they used to, at least not that i have noticed any way.
-Really, no? Hmm...That was something I liked about DRAGON, when I got their subscription. Not all the time, but a bunch of times, they had themes.
-Well, that aside, "they" probably don't want any Underdark articles until the Underdark book is released, since that book will have rules/monsters/etc. that are likely to come up when spelunking in the Underdark anyway, so...
But we now need to get back to the OP: Any other dark fantasy settings in FR that anyone else can think of...?
Well, since neither of us actually knows **** at this point concerning DDI, we'll just have to wait for someone "enlightened"....
Well, we'll just have to wait for someone who's "Enlightened" to show up, In the mean time i can tell you that no, Dragon no longer follows a theme like they used to, at least not that i have noticed any way.
They will tend to publish articles related to a book in the month during or following its release. I wouldn't be surprised to see an FR article in Dunegon in January/February on the topic.