Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 domitian May 11, 2009 15:30:33	So who do you think would win? mystras chosen get all the press but I think these two are the real deal.
#2 lord_karsus May 11, 2009 15:31:32	-Szass Tam has more resources, and more actual Wizard levels, and a higher CR. Ultimatley, he prevails in a conflict between the two.
#3 domitian May 11, 2009 16:10:12	where can i find these stats? are they 4e or 3.5. edit....nm i found Gromph on the sweet sticky npc page, no link to Szass Tam tho, can anyone link the page?
#4 gargoyle117 May 11, 2009 17:13:56	Funny that one of the things I have been lamenting about 4e encroaching into the fiction is Gromph's spell battles. They were one of my favorite parts of the Realms. I can't imagine how this battle would even begin to look in 4e, but to me, it would be a lot less exciting. To many of the good spells are either gone, short duration, or rituals. To answer the original question, I don't know much about Szass, but my vote's always for Gromph.
#5 thinblade May 11, 2009 19:17:43	Who cares?
#6 phelf_der_zemit May 11, 2009 19:53:28	That's hardly the forgotten realms fan base sort of speech. It is all relative. Face to Face, no bull, Sadly I must say Szass Tam, but given the time and resources of an entire school of magic and playground and home advantage, I'd go for Gromph.
#7 Elrik_Darkstorm May 11, 2009 20:12:53	It would be a good battle,Szazz tam would win i think since gromph had trouble with the lich dyrr and tam is a higher level wizard. How about the lich Dyrr vs Szass Tam ? i am not sure who would win that one
#8 phelf_der_zemit May 11, 2009 21:02:28	Well if Szass Tam can beat Gromph and Gromph can beat Lich Dyrr it would seem obvious...
#9 lord_karsus May 11, 2009 21:13:32	Who cares? -The OP, obviously.
#10 nightseer May 11, 2009 23:47:16	Who cares? I agree. I am sick and tired of both.
#11 zsych May 12, 2009 0:27:25	I rather like Szass Tam. I wouldn't expect Gromph to compare to him in any real sense in terms of power, magical items, knowledge etc.
#12 Aegeri May 12, 2009 1:38:20	I can't imagine how this battle would even begin to look in 4e, but to me, it would be a lot less exciting. You mean it would last more than 1 round? :P
#13 rinonalyrna_fathomlin May 12, 2009 10:51:37	So who do you think would win? I don't care enough to have an answer.
#14 lord_karsus May 12, 2009 11:52:18	I rather like Szass Tam. I wouldn't expect Gromph to compare to him in any real sense in terms of power, magical items, knowledge etc. -He doesn't. Gromph Baenre has gained an inflated sense of worth from the fanbase because he is featured as the "pinnacle of power" in many of the books dealing with Menzoberranzan. As we know, the world is a much bigger place than Menzoberranzan, and ultimately, it's a small place in a big pond. Likewise, Gromph Baenre is a small guy in a big pond. -It's like growing up in a small town in Arkansas, knowing the mayor, who has (obviously) a great deal of political power in the town, and not knowing any better, comparing the level of political power he/she has to the level of political power the mayor of a much larger city has.
#15 lord_karsus May 12, 2009 11:56:11	-All of you, stop. If you don't care, that's fine, you're allowed not to. There's no reason to rain on the OPs parade. He/she wants to discuss the subject, and it's perfectly acceptable. If you don't care to, move on, and don't post.
#16 markustay63 May 12, 2009 13:13:18	You know, I had a long response here... but it wasn't worth the trouble. There is a reason why 'vs' threads are immediately shut-down over at CK. Its small wonder I'm preferring that site to this one more and more. Anyhow, if you have no interest in the subject matter, don't click on the thread. There are plenty of threads I just don't bother with because I just don't care, but I don't post in them to tell everyone how much I don't care. BTW, I would love to see Gromph win.... but in all honesty I think Tam would pwn him Chuck Norris style. :P
#17 rinonalyrna_fathomlin May 12, 2009 13:24:58	Anyhow, if you have no interest in the subject matter, don't click on the thread. How can you know that you don't have an interest in the thread until you read it? Anyway, why don't I humor the OP. I'll answer his/her question with another question: In what way is either character "the real deal?" What does that even mean? Also, Gromph vs. Szass Tam isn't something I've ever given any thought to partially because these characters don't seem to have anything to do with each other. They are both powerful mages and they are both villians--and famous among fans. While I wouldn't be surprised if they at least have heard of each other, they literally live on opposite sides of the continent. I'm reminded again of people wondering about when Drizzt and Liriel are going to meet, because they both happen to be "goodly" surface dwelling drow who are famous among fans. Again, they have little to do with each other, but at least they both came from the same city...
#18 drizztsmanchild May 12, 2009 14:53:42	BTW, I would love to see Gromph win.... but in all honesty I think Tam would pwn him Chuck Norris style. :P Szass Tam was something Chuck sneezed out when Gromph approached him. Thus showing that he was once allergic to Drow B.S. However a millisecond after the sneeze his immune system delivered a roundhouse kick to the allergy and forcing it out from his body. It was discovered later that that allergy has since evolved into what Faerunians now know as the Spellplague. So in conclusion Szass Tam would win because Chuck created him And Gromph is just B.S. :invasion: ;)
#19 redxdelivers May 12, 2009 14:59:22	the normal advatage i would give an elven wizard that of age and experience is nullified by tams lichdom though i think the two are totally comparable. the problem being i see tam as a solo encounter wheras gromph would be accompanied by house baenre. with that kind of divine backup no undead has a chance.
#20 zsych May 12, 2009 15:16:14	Who says that Tam of all people doesn't have support? Thay should still be much bigger than Menzoberranzan, and have more useful people... I hope :P Seriously an army of insects can't be expected to take Tam down. As for elven age... with how slowly they develop, a talented human who has his life extended automatically has an advantage.
#21 Elrik_Darkstorm May 12, 2009 15:24:41	Well if Szass Tam can beat Gromph and Gromph can beat Lich Dyrr it would seem obvious... gromph didnt beat the lich dyrr in either of the 2 battles they had,i could be wrong but i believe that gromphs sister triel came to his aid in the final battle with dyrr.
#22 nightseer May 12, 2009 15:53:56	gromph didnt beat the lich dyrr in either of the 2 battles they had,i could be wrong but i believe that gromphs sister triel came to his aid in the final battle with dyrr. Typical Drow gotta hide behind a skirt.
#23 lord_karsus May 12, 2009 16:20:02	Who says that Tam of all people doesn't have support? Thay should still be much bigger than Menzoberranzan, and have more useful people... I hope :P -Like I said in my first post, the theoretical resources that Szass Tam can call on are far greater than anything Gromph Baenre can call upon. Being a Lich necromancer, Tam can raise an entire army of Undead on his own, without calling in favors or anything of that nature with the other Zukirs of Thay.
#24 phelf_der_zemit May 12, 2009 16:30:33	gromph didnt beat the lich dyrr in either of the 2 battles they had,i could be wrong but i believe that gromphs sister triel came to his aid in the final battle with dyrr. He was still victor. No one said Triel couldn't come to his aid against Tam either.
#25 markustay63 May 12, 2009 17:26:13	Actually, he 'cheated'. He broke his staff of the magi, killing both of them, but Gromph's ring(s) of regeneration saved his arse. The Lich was also re-forming, and thats why Gromph had to hurry his butt to the Lich's House and find the Phylactory ASAP (because he knew he would lose again, since he had no more staves). The way I read it, Gromph was the loser. It was the staff - not any personal power of Gromph's - that saved him in the end. Of course, in the Drow language there is no word for 'cheating' (their word transaltes to something like"creative playing"), ergo by Drow rules of engagment Gromph won. Barely.
#26 Elrik_Darkstorm May 12, 2009 21:14:09	He was still victor. No one said Triel couldn't come to his aid against Tam either. so by what your saying is that if u and I were in the middle of a fight and my brother say called in an air strike (i was trying to think of something similar to a high lvl cleric) on you and killed you,could i say that i won the fight.NO i can not
#27 lord_karsus May 12, 2009 21:56:45	-Yeah, Gromph really got his ass handed to him, when he went against the Lichdrow. He won, ultimately, but...His ego was hurt, definitely, when Triel had to pull his fat from the fire.
#28 drizztsmanchild May 13, 2009 0:08:52	Thus proving my post about Gromph being B.s. :P And in battles in the realms(or any other fantasy setting for that matter) there's no such thing as "cheating". You do what it takes to win.Meaning whatever resources you have are free to use and honor and fairness are just fancy concepts that have no real place in a true battle. Even the uber powerful Drizzt uses Guen to distract his enemies as he plunges his scimitars into them Quote "Where in the nine hells did you think I would fight fair" Drizzt to a Verbeeg in "Icewind Dale". So if Gromph had Triel save him(with the regeneration spell)then he was better prepared and thus deserves to be named the victor without questioning. Just my
#29 rinonalyrna_fathomlin May 13, 2009 11:40:42	Seriously an army of insects can't be expected to take Tam down. As for elven age... with how slowly they develop, a talented human who has his life extended automatically has an advantage. Well, from what I understand, Gromph has had a good seven centuries or so to develop. I don't think that's something to sniff at.
#30 lord_karsus May 13, 2009 16:18:10	-Gromph has long extended his natural lifespan via the use of Potions of Longetivity, and those kinds of magics. He is 700 or so, if I recall correctly. In 1,479 DR, he'd be about 800. Szass Tam is something like 250 or so, in 1,375 DR.
#31 zsych May 14, 2009 14:26:26	Tam has the benefits of being a human and not growing up with his talent stifled... and I'm pretty sure he has a bunch of levels on Gromph :P As for Tam's resources... well there is the minor problem that he no longer has access to the resources of the other groups in Thay(in 4E). Also, the only god really being worshipped in Thay in 4E is Bane. Plus Thay is infested with undead - and not so many living people. So I wonder what the useful population of Thay is these days. How many worthwhile mages, priests, warriors, etc. it has.
#32 markustay63 May 14, 2009 14:35:10	Who are just kids next to Elminster. Who himself is a child compared to Larloch, who doesn't even approach Halaster's age... and so on, and so forth... A lot of 'old goats' wandering around the Realms. :P
#33 zsych May 14, 2009 14:43:16	Halaster doesn't seem to have the power of upper-end Imaskari mages. Too bad none of that lot seems to still be around. ... I wonder what would happen if Szass Tam started a large number of people worshipping himself. He should have the power to do it.
#34 markustay63 May 14, 2009 14:50:24	He would become a demi-god (Exarch in 4e). From what I understand of the 4e rules/fluff, though (and some 1e/2e/3e stipulations), he would need the 'backing' of another god to do so. Its almost like those aspiring to godhood need a sponsor (I guess to run it past Ao). I can think of at least one demi-power that achieved divine status that way (that Chessentan Dragon), but I think that may have been retconned since we now know Tiamet was involved.
#35 Shiftkitty May 14, 2009 15:01:35	Not too familiar with Szass Tam except for stat blocks, but sadly I'd think that he'd win. I'm one of those members of the Gromph Baenre fan club, but I stay as realistic as a fantasy world will allow. All this means is that now I have to arrange a meeting for these two in my uber-high level campaign to take Tam out (fairly, I can trust myself!). "Ol' Grumpy" is no longer so restricted by the drow priestesses in my campaign...
#36 lord_karsus May 14, 2009 16:27:37	As for Tam's resources... well there is the minor problem that he no longer has access to the resources of the other groups in Thay(in 4E). Also, the only god really being worshipped in Thay in 4E is Bane. Plus Thay is infested with undead - and not so many living people. So I wonder what the useful population of Thay is these days. How many worthwhile mages, priests, warriors, etc. it has. -If you want to use 4e lore, Szass Tam has more resources at his disposal, being as that he is the sole ruler of Thay, as opposed to being simply a member on it's Zukir Council (albeit, the de facto leader, but a member none the less).
#37 nightseer May 14, 2009 18:21:21	Tam does have 900 years left and the he becomes Banes new toy.
#38 JudgeDookie May 18, 2009 21:01:40	-Gromph has long extended his natural lifespan via the use of Potions of Longetivity, and those kinds of magics. He is 700 or so, if I recall correctly. In 1,479 DR, he'd be about 800. Szass Tam is something like 250 or so, in 1,375 DR. Close, but just a few years off. In 1478 he is "over four centuries." ... I wonder what would happen if Szass Tam started a large number of people worshipping himself. He should have the power to do it. Well, first, he has enough undead not to do it--not people. Second, Bane would put a spanking him before too long. ---- In basic stat for stat, Tam would win. So lets change this up a bit and discuss how Gromph could possibly win.
#39 lord_karsus May 18, 2009 21:11:07	-I looked it up; he's 705 in 1,375 DR (Gromph). With Tam, I don't remember where I got that figure, but Villain's Lorebook says that he's been a Lich for at least 200 years.
#40 Shiftkitty May 19, 2009 12:13:44	In basic stat for stat, Tam would win. So lets change this up a bit and discuss how Gromph could possibly win. According to some old lore in the TSR days, the Forgotten Realms once had portals that led to our world. During some cataclysm, they collapsed. Gromph re-opened one and scried through it, seeing the power of the nuclear age. He summoned a missile mid-launch and sent it right into Szass Tam's lap while Tam was reading Playlich on the toilet. With the Upperdark being 12 miles below the surface (IIRC) Gromph should be reasonably safe. The shock factor alone should buy him time to find the phylactery and destroy it... Okay, the serious solutions may now commence...:D
#41 drizztsmanchild May 19, 2009 14:20:35	Not just yet Shiftkitty, Gromph could simply trick the npc who has the most "plot armor" to go after Tam Plot armor vs. Lichdom= no contest:P Seriously couldn't Gromph just say "ACCIO TAM PHYLACTERY" and have the upper hand? I kid I kid Seriously: 1 Couldn't Gromph disguise himself as a Lich himself? Would he gain more power if he did? 2 Or maybe have the entire Drow school of wizardry back him up? 3 Braegen D'earthe? 4 Ask Lolth(I believe she would do it to further the cause of her drow). 5 Ask Kelemvor(He seriously hates undead). 6 Offer some extremely rare and valuable item of magic or magic lore in exchange for Larloch's help? etc...
#42 Shiftkitty May 19, 2009 18:03:41	He could also find some way to trick Drizzt into doing it. Nobody beats Drizzt. Just look at the MtG card they did for him.
#43 zsych May 21, 2009 14:30:24	I'm fully expecting Tam to eat Bane alive when the time comes
#44 JudgeDookie May 21, 2009 18:13:57	According to some old lore in the TSR days, the Forgotten Realms once had portals that led to our world. During some cataclysm, they collapsed. Gromph re-opened one and scried through it, seeing the power of the nuclear age. He summoned a missile mid-launch and sent it right into Szass Tam's lap while Tam was reading Playlich on the toilet. With the Upperdark being 12 miles below the surface (IIRC) Gromph should be reasonably safe. The shock factor alone should buy him time to find the phylactery and destroy it... Okay, the serious solutions may now commence...:D Rock on, woman!! Not just yet Shiftkitty, Gromph could simply trick the npc who has the most "plot armor" to go after Tam Plot armor vs. Lichdom= no contest:P Seriously couldn't Gromph just say "ACCIO TAM PHYLACTERY" and have the upper hand? I kid I kid Seriously: 1 Couldn't Gromph disguise himself as a Lich himself? Would he gain more power if he did? 2 Or maybe have the entire Drow school of wizardry back him up? 3 Braegen D'earthe? 4 Ask Lolth(I believe she would do it to further the cause of her drow). 5 Ask Kelemvor(He seriously hates undead). 6 Offer some extremely rare and valuable item of magic or magic lore in exchange for Larloch's help? etc...
#45 zsych May 21, 2009 21:37:59	Seriously: 1 Couldn't Gromph disguise himself as a Lich himself? Would he gain more power if he did? No harm in being a lich if he can do it. Not that many wizards seem to take that path even when they wish to live longer. 2 Or maybe have the entire Drow school of wizardry back him up? 3 Braegen D'earthe? Insects against Szass Tam's power. 4 Ask Lolth(I believe she would do it to further the cause of her drow). Help a male? To gain power against someone she doesn't care about? When Tam would be a better ally/servant anyway(since he might appreciate aid against Bane)? 5 Ask Kelemvor(He seriously hates undead). Applies to countless beings that Kelemvor doesn't act against. 6 Offer some extremely rare and valuable item of magic or magic lore in exchange for Larloch's help? Extremely rare item or knowledge that surpasses stuff that Tam or Larloch himself would have? And if he had something like that, would he be able to keep either of them from just taking it from him, if they want? Seriously, Gromph has a better chance of just ending up a slave of Tam or someone else, if he tries to fight in that league... which could actually be pretty cool. I'd love to see Tam finding Menzoberranzan or something in it, of interest. Of course, that would be Tam against what forces Lloth can bring to bare, but it'd be fun. ... Realms writers really need to write stories like that, purely because we'd want to read them.
#46 drizztsmanchild May 22, 2009 0:57:47	Rock on, woman!! Ah the prodigal son has returned ;)
#47 Aegeri May 22, 2009 19:13:47	Was that the edit from the WizO? If so, they do have a sense of humor!
#48 Stigger May 22, 2009 19:50:44	Or maybe just simple veracity... ;) :P :D
#49 lord_karsus May 22, 2009 21:15:08	Oops, wrong thread.
#50 nightseer May 23, 2009 0:01:57	I'm fully expecting Tam to eat Bane alive when the time comes Tam will become Bane's new play pretty.
#51 zsych May 23, 2009 9:47:09	Tam should turn out his version of Karsus Avatar on Bane one day beforethe thousand years are up :P But seriously, imagine what he could do with even a smaller version of what he was doing in the Haunted Lands trilogy. Perhaps just targeted at Bane... Transform Bane into a loyal succubus!! :P
#52 lord_karsus May 23, 2009 11:13:11	Tam should turn out his version of Karsus Avatar on Bane one day beforethe thousand years are up :P -He tried that (not on anyone in particular), but failed.
#53 zsych May 23, 2009 11:23:53	Show Its not that the system wouldn't have worked. It's that it got stolen from him, and he ended up having to help stop the spell... and unfortunately couldn't redo it in the same place(Thay). Very few people alive actually know what Tam was planning, so he can redo it in some other land, in the thousand years he has remaining... or on some other world... Its annoying how mages in FR seem to forget that they can travel to other worlds if they want.
#54 lord_karsus May 23, 2009 12:12:50	-That's what happens, unfortunately, when the cosmology shifts more than the tide.
#55 JudgeDookie May 24, 2009 2:10:02	Last edited by ORC_Clayben : Yesterday at 05:22 AM. Reason: Flaming is a violation of the Code of Conduct. With all due respect, Mr./Ms./Mrs/Orc_Clayben person, I do believe we need to have the Code of Conduct modified for exchanges that occur between Mr. Drizztmanthingy and myself. You see, our relationship is special--he enjoys my belittling nature. And, if you see how he responds to me, I'm sure you'll see it's all about mutual love. Everything starts with , climaxes with , then concludes with ;). Sort of like a wife you've been with for 25+ years, ya know? I assure you that there is no reason to bring your legal team in on this. I'll be more than happy to bring in Johnny Cochran to make the appropriate edits. Ah the prodigal son has returned ;) Well, what!! Do you want me on Prozac everyday? Was that the edit from the WizO? If so, they do have a sense of humor! Stig probably has it correct. Though, I really hope that was a COMPLETE misspelling of the word that replaced it. Show Its not that the system wouldn't have worked. It's that it got stolen from him, and he ended up having to help stop the spell... and unfortunately couldn't redo it in the same place(Thay). Very few people alive actually know what Tam was planning, so he can redo it in some other land, in the thousand years he has remaining... or on some other world... Its annoying how mages in FR seem to forget that they can travel to other worlds if they want.
#56 drizztsmanchild May 24, 2009 3:31:54	With all due respect, Mr./Ms./Mrs/Orc_Clayben person, I do believe we need to have the Code of Conduct modified for exchanges that occur between Mr. Drizztmanthingy and myself. You see, our relationship is special--he enjoys my belittling nature. And, if you see how he responds to me, I'm sure you'll see it's all about mutual love. Everything starts with , climaxes with , then concludes with ;). Sort of like a wife you've been with for 25+ years, ya know? I assure you that there is no reason to bring your legal team in on this. I'll be more than happy to bring in Johnny Cochran to make the appropriate edits. Well, what!! Do you want me on Prozac everyday? I quite agree JD, in a lighter note I think that RAS' The Thousand ORCS may have been about you as it seems you are always surrounded by them Besides JD is not trying to lobotomize me like he who must not be named -tigg! He is also not a flamerbaiter that I know of... now the other type of bater.....well i think he might be a master at it Since my theories on how Gromph could beat Tam have been invalidated with the exception of the Lolth one(see below) I will think of a couple more Lolth's help: This could happen because Lolth once had Raig'y(cleric of Lolth) heal Drizzt at Jartlaxles request with his reasoning that Lolth would do it to further the cause of her drow.
#57 nightseer May 24, 2009 6:21:08	Tam would dominate that trick Grompg. :P
#58 Stigger May 24, 2009 8:50:32	Trying? Successfully having done so, trying is no longer an appropriate term in describing my efforts. :P :evillaugh And Gromph would win, because he has the cooler name and doesn't look like an idiot.
#59 markustay63 May 24, 2009 18:25:57	I'd say in a fair fight, it would have to be Tam, even though I like Gromph (and hate Tam). If Gromph had the 'home-field advantage', he might... MIGHT... pull it off. Every time I say "Szass Tam" aloud, I think of that Donna Summer song, Last Dance... Szass Tammmm Szass Tam for love Yes, its my last change For romance tonighttttttt.... I need you, by me, Beside me, to guide me, To hold me, to scold me, cause when Im bad I'm so, so bad So Szass Tam, the Szass Tam Szass Tam, the Szass Tam Szass Tam, this Szass Tam tonightttttt... With my apologies for anyone else who had to live-through the 'disco era'.
#60 nightseer May 24, 2009 19:08:12	Now why did you have to ruin a great song? :P
#61 markustay63 May 24, 2009 22:01:27	No... Love to to love you baby is the greatest Donna Summer song ever sung. :D For rather... obvious... reasons...
#62 Stigger May 25, 2009 10:40:32	Except for being Donna Summers to begin with... disco is inherently evil, wrong, and just wrong... and a little more wrong than that even, no exceptions. :P
#63 markustay63 May 25, 2009 10:57:07	Thats because you haven't seen me in my white leisure suit with pink satin shirt. I was dead sexy, yo.
#64 Stigger May 25, 2009 11:40:37	To quote a movie... "put it on a dead guy and bury it."
#65 nightseer May 25, 2009 15:37:30	Except for being Donna Summers to begin with... disco is inherently evil, wrong, and just wrong... and a little more wrong than that even, no exceptions. :P Thats why I like disco. I am inherently evil, wrong, and just wrong... and a little more wrong than that even, no exceptions. :P :D
#66 Stigger May 25, 2009 23:29:43	So tell us something we don't already know... :P :D
#67 drizztsmanchild May 26, 2009 1:44:45	Disco! Well it was useful in weeding out the wierdo's of the late 70's early 80's :P Can't you just picture Gromph and Tam having a Disco Dance off ala Starsky vs Disco Dan style. Tam doing the Big Rig
#68 keveras May 26, 2009 5:23:30	Halaster doesn't seem to have the power of upper-end Imaskari mages. Too bad none of that lot seems to still be around. Aside from the Deep Imaskar guys, who might not be as powerful as Lord Artificer Yuvaraj or some others were, there is one imaskari who managed to survive the fall of his empire who's still around. He's called Yaravindar Ipurnos (LN male imaskari human conjurer 28/rogue 3/archmage 5), and further information about him can be found in Dragon #349.
#69 lord_karsus May 26, 2009 10:06:56	Aside from the Deep Imaskar guys, who might not be as powerful as Lord Artificer Yuvaraj or some others were, there is one imaskari who managed to survive the fall of his empire who's still around. He's called Yaravindar Ipurnos (LN male imaskari human conjurer 28/rogue 3/archmage 5), and further information about him can be found in Dragon #349. -Being that the Imaskari were very advanced concerning the arts of extraplanar magic and such, it'd be downright illogical for no Imaskari to continue to exist anywhere in the multiverse.
#70 zsych May 26, 2009 11:25:15	IIRC, the Imaskari don't seem to have been big on life extending magic, so even their more talented mages didn't live that long. Which in its own way says good things about them, considering that they achieved as much as they did within normal lifespans. Imaskar is another of those nations that was practically destroyed despite there being no real reason for it to have been practically destroyed. Its far too easy for plenty of Imaskari to escape. The same for Jhaamdath really... doesn't seem like a place that should've vanished completely with no survivors (although I recall hearing about a city apart from the one stuck in the astral plane with Callers of the Night, that somehow survived... which seems to be sitting in the middle of nowhere as a plot device)
#71 Stigger May 26, 2009 14:42:03	I dunno about Jhaamdath... a giant tsunami beating your nation down does tend to kill an awful lot of things, especially considering it all but wiped out a sea-elf kingdom in the process of killing those satyr-hating freakjob Jhaamdathans.
#72 lord_karsus May 26, 2009 14:57:23	-Yeah, agreed. In most cases, when there is a specific, catastrophic event, I'd for the best of nearly everything is wiped out. Makes relics and survivors all the more unique. Look at Netheril. I mean, plenty of people survived the fall of Netheril, so being a descendant of the Netherese is nowhere as...glorious sounding as being a survivor of Imaskar, or a survivor of Jhaamdath, and so on.
#73 nightseer May 26, 2009 15:12:49	Disco! Well it was useful in weeding out the wierdo's of the late 70's early 80's :P Can't you just picture Gromph and Tam having a Disco Dance off ala Starsky vs Disco Dan style. Tam doing the Big Rig I could see them at Club 54 or is that Studio 54? :P
#74 nightseer May 26, 2009 15:13:56	I dunno about Jhaamdath... a giant tsunami beating your nation down does tend to kill an awful lot of things, especially considering it all but wiped out a sea-elf kingdom in the process of killing those satyr-hating freakjob Jhaamdathans. Poor satyr-hating freakjob Jhaamdathans. ;)
#75 Stigger May 26, 2009 15:14:38	Studio 54... though I can't think why I know that offhand...
#76 drizztsmanchild May 26, 2009 21:29:07	Prob because of the movie 54.
#77 Stigger May 27, 2009 8:54:45	There was a movie by that name?
#78 drizztsmanchild May 27, 2009 11:03:54	Yep. All I remember about it was Salma Hayak, Neve Campbell were both hot in it.
#79 Stigger May 27, 2009 15:50:04	Okay... that right there is enough for me to forgo my aversion to Disco and go see if I can find it...
#80 JudgeDookie May 27, 2009 17:28:33	I quite agree JD Well, we know this. Duh. …in a lighter note I think that RAS' The Thousand ORCS may have been about you as it seems you are always surrounded by them 2 points for funny, my man. 10 points for truth. Funnier still is the fact that, two days ago, I had to give my CFO my password ‘cause she needed administrative rights to a laptop I had loaned her. When I told her it was “ORCSSuck!”, I had to explain to her what the hell it meant when she asked where I came up with it. ;) He is also not a flamerbaiter that I know of... now the other type of bater.....well i think he might be a master at it Hey, now. I never brought up that time I caught you in the circle jerk, now did I? ….? Oops. Disco! Well it was useful in weeding out the wierdo's of the late 70's early 80's :P Can't you just picture Gromph and Tam having a Disco Dance off ala Starsky vs Disco Dan style. Tam doing the Big Rig ST wins by a mile. The flexibility on his joints must be amazing at this point, not to mention that he doesn’t fatigue. Gromph would thrust his ass out thrice and look winded and white. Imaskar is another of those nations that was practically destroyed despite there being no real reason for it to have been practically destroyed. Considering Keveras’ point, I would say the reason should be obvious. Okay... that right there is enough for me to forgo my aversion to Disco and go see if I can find it... Not worth it. If you've seen Salma's cleavage before, then you have seen it all.
#81 Stigger May 27, 2009 19:19:22	Still tempting... horror of the soundtrack is giving me a pretty big bonus to my Will defense though... not how long I can hold out though... maybe I'll go with Dusk 'til Dawn instead... that should help some. :D
#82 drizztsmanchild May 27, 2009 21:42:23	Salma:Frida Neve: I Really Hate My Job Nuff said Well JD there goes another theory I had about Gromph beating Tam. I figured the moves would look more fluid if you had flesh on your bones. And who was left with the bread JD It wasn't me
#83 markustay63 May 27, 2009 21:47:43	Studio 54. The movie was pretty damn accurate in it's depiction. Lived through it... the movie makes me nauseous (dark memories of a dark time). A little too realistic for me. These days I prefer my fantasy not be had at the end of a straw.
#84 Stigger May 28, 2009 7:12:56	Wasn't any worse or different than the yuppies and their emulators from the 80's...
#85 keveras May 28, 2009 13:29:49	-Being that the Imaskari were very advanced concerning the arts of extraplanar magic and such, it'd be downright illogical for no Imaskari to continue to exist anywhere in the multiverse. Excatly, and that's not even counting in the fact that The Imaskari Created Sigil. :P
#86 lord_karsus May 28, 2009 15:22:42	Excatly, and that's not even counting in the fact that The Imaskari Created Sigil. :P -One of many hypothesizes. One I like, mostly.
#87 Stigger May 28, 2009 17:15:19	Man... Rip must have been hitting El's pipeweed stock hard that day... ;)
#88 lord_karsus May 28, 2009 20:35:31	-He should have another hit, then. So should Shemmy.
#89 markustay63 May 29, 2009 7:52:59	Well, Rip's 'come back' to us recently, but Shemmy has gone over to the 'Dark Side' (or 'Light side', depending on how you look at it). He's developing the cosmology for Golarion these days (and is QUITE upset with the changes wrought in 4e).
#90 JudgeDookie May 29, 2009 8:56:22	Still tempting... horror of the soundtrack is giving me a pretty big bonus to my Will defense though... not how long I can hold out though... maybe I'll go with Dusk 'til Dawn instead... that should help some. :D You can never go wrong with that one. ;) Salma:Frida Neve: I Really Hate My Job Nuff said After the Sunset, ninny. You'll never see more of Salma than in that one. Frida was a kiddie show. Well JD there goes another theory I had about Gromph beating Tam. I figured the moves would look more fluid if you had flesh on your bones. This is why we have fashion models. Evidently, everything looks better without flesh. And who was left with the bread JD It wasn't me You'll have to figure that one out by yourself, as you roll around on the floor eating them. You are beyond me at this point. Studio 54. The movie was pretty damn accurate in it's depiction. Lived through it... the movie makes me nauseous (dark memories of a dark time). A little too realistic for me. These days I prefer my fantasy not be had at the end of a straw. Yes, it was...but I agree with Stig (even though he hasn't seen it). Both era's were "dark" in their own right. Excatly, and that's not even counting in the fact that The Imaskari Created Sigil. :P Funny enough, I have no issues with this. Well, a couple, but over all....
#91 rinonalyrna_fathomlin May 29, 2009 22:24:06	No... Love to to love you baby is the greatest Donna Summer song ever sung. :D For rather... obvious... reasons... This thread is so much cooler because you mentioned that song.:D As for the video, well...that guy in white makes it more funny than sexy.