Personally I do not need it. I would rather see a book on religions and not their gods. There are still too many gods to make a book like that though.
I am sure all the god stuff will be on DDI.
I am sure all the god stuff will be on DDI.
Another reason NOT to suscribe. I rather have all that good stuff in books I pay just once but I can read in the middle of the african jungle.
Everything is subject to change though.
Personally I do not need it. I would rather see a book on religions and not their gods. There are still too many gods to make a book like that though.
I am sure all the god stuff will be on DDI.
Yeah I was just gonna say this. I think most of that sort of stuff will be up on DDi, which sucks for some people who don't want to pay the subscription, I suppose. That being said, I plan on subscribing to DDi.
Last we heard anyway. I'm fairly sure they're reserving the right to change their minds on most things though...
Exactly. There's no such thing as never, here.
I would rather see a book on religions and not their gods.
Same here--I'm sure that'd be more useful to most people.
Though, I imagine individual adventures will give you more detail on both the gods and their religion.
-Which brings "them" back to one of the problems with the Forgotten Realms they have been citing from the start- too much information spread over a variety of sources both obvious and obscure.
They have also denied that they will publish a player's handbook XIII.
-We should hope they stick to that promise.
I would rather see a book on religions and not their gods.
The 2e books had a lot on the churches as opposed to the 3e book. But it doesn't appear we'll get either
-Which brings "them" back to one of the problems with the Forgotten Realms they have been citing from the start- too much information spread over a variety of sources both obvious and obscure.
But the beauty with this is that they are packed into adventures. For a DM, it is a take it or leave it thing. You don't know what you don't know, as they say.
And, I would hope, most players don't have access to the adventures anyway, removing their possibility from knowing more than the DM. Even if they play the adventure, read everything inside, then come back the next campaign trying to claim it as canon, you simply ask: "When did or will that adventure ever take place in this campaign?"
They've also gone back on things they've said before, ergo that statement is practically meaningless.
Gods are supposed to be challenges for epic characters, but since there aren't any plans for an FRMM either, I would suppose the stats would have to be included in the CG.
However, I heard somewhere else that there were three sourcebooks planned, and that adventure (four books total). I this is so, then perhaps an FRMM is planned for later on, and then I would expect the God's stat blocks to be in that.
Has anyone else heard about the 4th book? Or was someone else just mistaken?
Yes, they have said they have no plans to that effect.
And, of course, only time will tell.
However, I heard somewhere else that there were three sourcebooks planned, and that adventure (four books total). I this is so, then perhaps an FRMM is planned for later on, and then I would expect the God's stat blocks to be in that.
Has anyone else heard about the 4th book? Or was someone else just mistaken?
I brought this up too. I was told that the 3rd book was an adventure. Never heard anything on a 4th.
I would assume that anything beyond the first two books will appear in the DDi... until Eberon comes out next year and info for THAT setting takes precedence over the FR stuff.
Ah, okay... Someone on another forum mentioned three sourcebooks and an adventure, but I think they were mistaken.
I would assume that anything beyond the first two books will appear in the DDi... until Eberon comes out next year and info for THAT setting takes precedence over the FR stuff.
Hope not--in both regards. But thats just wishful thinking.
But the beauty with this is that they are packed into adventures. For a DM, it is a take it or leave it thing. You don't know what you don't know, as they say.
-The information in the adventures still becomes canon, and the "build-up" continues. DMs can ignore that and everything, but that's how things already work. Nothing's changing.
Ah, okay... Someone on another forum mentioned three sourcebooks and an adventure, but I think they were mistaken.
Two sourcebooks and an adventure are what is planned for the time being.
Ah, okay... Someone on another forum mentioned three sourcebooks and an adventure, but I think they were mistaken.
I would assume that anything beyond the first two books will appear in the DDi... until Eberon comes out next year and info for THAT setting takes precedence over the FR stuff.
I think both Eberron and FR will be covered from now on in DDI even though EB is not out yet. Keith Baker is writing an article larger than any he has done for Dragon to be placed onto DDI some time after it is active.
I think both Eberron and FR will be covered from now on in DDI even though EB is not out yet.
-Everything is going to be geting covered on the Dungeons and Dragons online thing, if there is going to be such a..."stinginess" on books. For most settings, I don't think two general books, one for the DM and one for the Player is enough.
I think both Eberron and FR will be covered from now on in DDI even though EB is not out yet. Keith Baker is writing an article larger than any he has done for Dragon to be placed onto DDI some time after it is active.
unfortunately
unfortunately
What, the fact that the only FR material is going to be found on the DDI or that Keith is writing a large Eberron article?
I think we are going to see articles about FR and other settings the size of which we have never seen in Dragon before. Most of these will be done by the settings creators or people like Brian, Rich and perhaps a few others notables from FRs past. I am really excited about this and since I quit WOW I have an extra 15 a month I can spend freely :D .
What, the fact that the only FR material is going to be found on the DDI or that Keith is writing a large Eberron article?
That it (an Eb stuff) will only be found online
That it (an Eb stuff) will only be found online
And that the content is not weorth the price.
And that the content is not weorth the price.
At least at this point in time, it does not appear the $15/month will be worth it
At least at this point in time, it does not appear the $15/month will be worth it
-For just the Forgotten Realms content, anyway. I mean, think about it like this:
-Say, once a month, you get a 30-page .PDF file. Personally speaking, I don't think there will be support every month, nor will the support be 30 full pages, but let's make things up here.
-So, for $15 per month, you get 30 pages every month. There's 12 months in a year, so that's (12 x 30) 360 pages in total. There's 12 months in a year, so that's (12 x $15) $180.
-So, that's $180 for 360 pages.
-Looking at the closest three 3e sourcebooks I have in front of me, there was an average of about 175 pages per sourcebook, of about $30 each. We usually got three sourcebooks every year, so that's (3 x 175) 525 pages and (3 x $30) $90.
-So, that's $90 for 525 pages.
-Now, let's compare to see if it's really worth it:
-$180 for 360 pages as opposed to $90 for 525 pages.
-Nope...
-That's almost double the price for half the product. Geeze...
-For just the Forgotten Realms content, anyway. I mean, think about it like this:
-Say, once a month, you get a 30-page .PDF file. Personally speaking, I don't think there will be support every month, nor will the support be 30 full pages, but let's make things up here.
-So, for $15 per month, you get 30 pages every month. There's 12 months in a year, so that's (12 x 30) 360 pages in total. There's 12 months in a year, so that's (12 x $15) $180.
-So, that's $180 for 360 pages.
-Looking at the closest three 3e sourcebooks I have in front of me, there was an average of about 175 pages per sourcebook, of about $30 each. We usually got three sourcebooks every year, so that's (3 x 175) 525 pages and (3 x $30) $90.
-So, that's $90 for 525 pages.
-Now, let's compare to see if it's really worth it:
-$180 for 360 pages as opposed to $90 for 525 pages.
-Nope...
-That's almost double the price for half the product. Geeze...
That is of course, you are only interested in FR and not other settings or core stuff. But your point is valid. There will not be enough to make it worth while
That is of course, you are only interested in FR and not other settings or core stuff. But your point is valid. There will not be enough to make it worth while
-Well, I did preface all of that by saying, "For just the Forgotten Realms content, anyway...". ;)
-Well, I did preface all of that by saying, "For just the Forgotten Realms content, anyway...". ;)
acknowledged. Not worth it anyway
He might write an article about toilets in the Realms!!
But... what if... Ed Greenwood wrote articles for the DDi...? Then you'd just have to subscribe!
He might write an article about toilets in the Realms!!
-Not worth it.
-Not worth it.
I agree but if there is one about outhouses I may have to cave
But... what if... Ed Greenwood wrote articles for the DDi...? Then you'd just have to subscribe!
He might write an article about toilets in the Realms!!
You mean as in dressing tables? That'd be nice!
I agree but if there is one about outhouses I may have to cave
-I hear you.
Easy solution: earn Euros!;)
-Still not worth it.
I'd pay for a weekly fearunian gazzet, holding all big news stories near waterdeep or other large metropolitan areas.
-I would have, in the past. And, maybe not a weekly thing, but monthly at least. That was something I've always been a big proponent of.
If I thought the DDi would REALLY include oodles of Realmslore on a weekly basis, I would be the first in line for it, but I haven't seen anything that indicates more then an occasional (bad?) article that is all about the 4e Realms and how to run games there.
And I really, truly doubt there will be ANY Realmslore available in the DDi once they release the Eberron setting. Then a year later, Eberron will get the same treatment, and will be ignored in lieu of whatever setting they 're-invision' for 4e next.
At best, we will get a year of mediocre 4e lore and thats it. I Often like to quote Dr. Malcolm from Jurassic Park when I think of 4e, and he comes to the rescue once again -
"I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here: it didn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now you're selling it, you want to sell it!"
Thats basically it - just push it out the door and start working on the next 'great thing'. They are a Toy Company, after all.
The lore Ed provides FOR FREE at Candlekeep goes above and beyond anything produced here, and we get almost daily doses of it over there, whereas here we get 4e advertisements and Headless Zhents.
If I thought the DDi would REALLY include oodles of Realmslore on a weekly basis, I would be the first in line for it, but I haven't seen anything that indicates more then an occasional (bad?) article that is all about the 4e Realms and how to run games there.
And I really, truly doubt there will be ANY Realmslore available in the DDi once they release the Eberron setting. Then a year later, Eberron will get the same treatment, and will be ignored in lieu of whatever setting they 're-invision' for 4e next.
At best, we will get a year of mediocre 4e lore and thats it. I Often like to quote Dr. Malcolm from Jurassic Park when I think of 4e, and he comes to the rescue once again -
"I'll tell you the problem with the scientific power that you're using here: it didn't require any discipline to attain it. You read what others had done and you took the next step. You didn't earn the knowledge for yourselves, so you don't take any responsibility for it. You stood on the shoulders of geniuses to accomplish something as fast as you could and before you even knew what you had you patented it and packaged it and slapped it on a plastic lunchbox, and now you're selling it, you want to sell it!"
Thats basically it - just push it out the door and start working on the next 'great thing'. They are a Toy Company, after all.
-I'm sure it will be like DRAGON magazine was, more or less: A weekly/monthly/whatever it is article that is always about the Forgotten Realms, and more coverage depending on the theme for the issue.
The lore Ed provides FOR FREE at Candlekeep goes above and beyond anything produced here...
I'm inclined to agree. Although, I still might get DDi, because I like the core ruleset.
What is going to be the status of priests or clerics in 4e? How can these classes exist without a pantheon? Or a paladin even? Did I miss something about these classes? I didnt really pay attention with the 3e classes were going on. I am a 1e and 2e player.
-There continues to be a pantheon of deities. It is being "trimmed down" however. A lot.
It's always nice to know I can come to the Realms forums and find people that hate WOTC almost as much as I do.
welcome
-WotC, in and of itself, is a good company. It's just that, as of late, many of their decisions regarding the Forgotten Realms seem...questionable.
But... what if... Ed Greenwood wrote articles for the DDi...? Then you'd just have to subscribe!
He might write an article about toilets in the Realms!!
What do Fzoul Chembryl and Donald Trump have in common? Both have golden toilets!
-Donald Trump doesn't have a mustache, though.
He could have it if he wanted.
It's always nice to know I can come to the Realms forums and find people that hate WOTC almost as much as I do.
And I am still wondering, what are these people still on these boards for again????
He could have it if he wanted.
-In theory.
And I am still wondering, what are these people still on these boards for again????
-Because it's a place to congregate and debate with online friends?
-Because it's a place to congregate and debate with online friends?
Yeah, that guy's attitude really attracted some friends...
I mean, its cool if you criticize WoTC but don't outrightly blast them. Its a bit rude.
Yeah, that guy's attitude really attracted some friends...
I mean, its cool if you criticize WoTC but don't outrightly blast them. Its a bit rude.
-For I think the third time today I had to post to remind people, negative, neutral, and positive "speech" is all permitted, so long as it is all within the bounds of the CoC.
-For I think the third time today I had to post to remind people, negative, neutral, and positive "speech" is all permitted, so long as it is all within the bounds of the CoC.
Oh, of course he has the right to do it. But it kinda of made him look like a fool.
Freedom and Karma are the peanut butter and jelly of reality.;)
Oh, of course he has the right to do it. But it kinda of made him look like a fool.
Freedom and Karma are the peanut butter and jelly of reality.;)
-Hey, if someone wants to make themselves look silly, it's well within their rights to do so. ;)
-Hey, if someone wants to make themselves look silly, it's well within their rights to do so. ;)
Amazingly, we concur again:D
Yeah, that guy's attitude really attracted some friends...
I mean, its cool if you criticize WoTC but don't outrightly blast them. Its a bit rude.
Its like the old saying goes, "If you dont have anything nice to say, then unleash the spellplague and remake the world in your image."
P.S. I dont have any problems making myself look silly, I am an imp from the
4th dimension after all. ;)
Its like the old saying goes, "If you dont have anything nice to say, then unleash the spellplague and remake the world in your image."
Its like the old saying goes, "If you dont have anything nice to say, then unleash the spellplague and remake the world in your image."
P.S. I dont have any problems making myself look silly, I am an imp from the
4th dimension after all. ;)
Ohh, using WoTC's own poison against them, I like that.:P
Ohh, using WoTC's own poison against them, I like that.:P
Thanks.:D
Btw I was reading through this thread and I just want to point out that Ed Greenwood has written an article about outhouses and toilet hygiene in the realms.
huh?
-Ed Greenwood has plenty of articles that, I feel, are totally extraneous.
certainly, I just don't recall a toilet article
Oh yes and it was very extensive. Outhouses and their castle-equivalents (I cannot remember the word right now), disposal methods, sewer systems and even hygiene. I know I'd never go to a world were people clean that area with vinegar-steeped cloth without a prestidigitation at-will power . ..
missed that one. oh well.
so when are we getting paragon paths dedicated to Fr deities if they won't release a new F&P? i guess DDi which of course stinks
Well, we know the FRPG will have Paragon Paths, along with new powers and Epic Destinies. No idea what those Paragon Paths will be, however.
Thats true. But I doubt we'll get 15 or so deity specific paths. More likely we'll get a few like bladesinger and battlerager and red wizard etc etc
)Well I understand the DDI stinks for you Merrik but from someone who plans to keep a campaign on FR and Eberron and likes reading dungeon, I think the DDI is better than a subscription for me (which would always end up with me getting the magazines a good month late
It does stink for me. I don't plan on spending $15 a month. Back when they were mags, I would get almost all the dragons but never the dungeons. I don't like being forced to get both. Plus, I much prefer reading paper than a computer
Btw have the plans for what DDI costs finalized yet?
I thought so. If they offer just dragon for half the price. I would seriously consider it.
Btw have the plans for what DDI costs finalized yet?
-I don't believe that the DDI itself is finalized itself. There were supposed to be free trials and such in June, remember?
-I don't believe that the DDI itself is finalized itself. There were supposed to be free trials and such in June, remember?
I think they meant free trials for the staff. ;)
I particularly liked
that one article where what's-her-name wrote about how "cool" and spiffy the visual character-presenter was, as she made her much-loved character and gave her different looks with various clothing / armor options.Might've been nice to uhm... see that, or try it out personally, rather than a small screenshot.
-It would be nice to see a continuing "Faiths of the Realms" article in the online DRAGON magazine. I know, they had something like that in the print version.
I sincerely hope the Character Generation has come a long way from the few screens we saw back then. They were pathetic.
-I don't believe that the DDI itself is finalized itself. There were supposed to be free trials and such in June, remember?
Someone told me that you would be able to buy individual pdfs of various dragons and dungeons. I hope so.
I would ove to be able to purchase individual pdfs of articles
Someone told me that you would be able to buy individual pdfs of various dragons and dungeons. I hope so.
I would ove to be able to purchase individual pdfs of articles
-Don't know if that's true or not. Like I said, I've been ignoring the DDI stuff even more than the regular 4e stuff.
-Don't know if that's true or not. Like I said, I've been ignoring the DDI stuff even more than the regular 4e stuff.
ditto. I read it somewhere on the general discussion boards
I was just thinking about this while running this morning (no idea why) and it ocured to me Can they even do it? I mean with all the dead gods? Maybe a pamphlet....
Have they categorically denied that there will ever be a Faiths and Pantheons for 4E?/QUOTE]
-Yes, yes they have. As was mentioned, though, that doesn't prevent them from going back on their word.
-Yes, yes they have. As was mentioned, though, that doesn't prevent them from going back on their word.
I sure hope they do. I want some supplements even if they are set in the 4-Gotten Realms
I sure hope they do. I want some supplements even if they are set in the 4-Gotten Realms
-Eh. I'm going to be picking up the FRCG (secondhand, via eBay), to "survey the damage", but asides for that, it's likely to be the last product I buy. Sounds like DDI stuff, though.
-Eh. I'm going to be picking up the FRCG (secondhand, via eBay), to "survey the damage", but asides for that, it's likely to be the last product I buy.
I agree with the FRCG, but I am intereted in the Players Guide. If I want to play using 4e rules set outside the 4-Gotten Realms I might be interested in the Paragon Paths, the genasi and the swordmage
Exactly. There's no such thing as never, here.
I object. Wizards will NEVER make flying purple hippos a race in the realms, no matter how much I ask.
That is, not untill I convince them otherwise...:evillaugh
I agree with the FRCG, but I am intereted in the Players Guide. If I want to play using 4e rules set outside the 4-Gotten Realms I might be interested in the Paragon Paths, the genasi and the swordmage
-Since I'm not using the rules myself, that kind of stuff loses a lot of value with me.
I object. Wizards will NEVER make flying purple hippos a race in the realms, no matter how much I ask.
-You seem to be describing the Giff, from Spelljammer.
Isn't there a giff living in Westgate or something? Don't recall offhand where that guy lived...
-Probably, given that Spelljammer wasn't outright deleted from the setting.
-You seem to be describing the Giff, from Spelljammer.
Wait, you are saying flying purple hippos exist in the Realms?
Wait, you are saying flying purple hippos exist in the Realms?
-Yes, yes they do. The Giff.
-Yes, yes they do. The Giff.
Nine feet tall... fighters with a Str of 22. Bodyguards! :D
-There you go!
I bet they'd eat a lot, though... hungry hungry Giffos... ;)
Btw I was reading through this thread and I just want to point out that Ed Greenwood has written an article about outhouses and toilet hygiene in the realms.
Hence the joke, since I remember something like that too. :D
Nine feet tall... fighters with a Str of 22. Bodyguards! :D
he looks like a cheesy 70s DC character
he looks like a cheesy 70s DC character
-Hmm...An English explorer, Horrace, arrived in Egypt, ready to loot and plunder the country's national wealth and treasure. Traveling down the Nile, he discovered a secret temple of Thoeris. Upon attempting to break into the temple, he was confronted by the temple's spirit guardian. Making a bargain for his life, Horrace agreed to become a protector of Egypt's secrets, and a vessel of Thoeris' power.
-Thus...HORRACE HIPPO was born!
Nine feet tall... fighters with a Str of 22. Bodyguards! :D
You guys are pulling my leg...
You guys are pulling my leg...
Haha, nope, that really is a character of the Giff race, back from 2nd edition - part of the Spelljammer era of Forgotten Realms material. Definitely real, and part of FR canon!
-Eh. I'm going to be picking up the FRCG (secondhand, via eBay), to "survey the damage", but asides for that, it's likely to be the last product I buy. Sounds like DDI stuff, though.
Answered by...
Going forward, I *hope* we'll see a good FR article or two every month. But that depends on the DDi editorial staff and the contributors, so it isn't anything that I can promise.
Accent, mine.
Don't expect anything Realmsian coming from the DDi, unless it pertains directly to the LFR campaign arcs (and those articles will probaly be chosen/written by the LFR guys, NOT the design team, who are currently working on the NEXT setting to be released... and novels).
Face it... FR is dead.
I bet they'd eat a lot, though... hungry hungry Giffos... ;)
Ouch... that was bad.
;) :P
You guys are pulling my leg...
-Nope. That's a Giff, and there are Giff running around in Faerûn.
Answered by...
Accent, mine.
Don't expect anything Realmsian coming from the DDi, unless it pertains directly to the LFR campaign arcs (and those articles will probaly be chosen/written by the LFR guys, NOT the design team, who are currently working on the NEXT setting to be released... and novels).
Face it... FR is dead.
-There you go exaggerating again...He said he hopes (being as that he doesn't know, nor have any control over the DDI) to see a Forgotten Realms related article or two every month. Nothing else.
-There you go exaggerating again...He said he hopes (being as that he doesn't know, nor have any control over the DDI) to see a Forgotten Realms related article or two every month. Nothing else.
Seems like WotC is missing an opportunity here, with respect to Ed Greenwood. He writes and writes, sends them tons of material, and I bet most all of it could be used for DDI Realms articles and snippets. They'd just need an editor who could keep it "in sync" with the Realms as they want them portrayed. With publishing something simple like that, I bet that would be relatively cheap. And they could eventually turn it into a published book of "relatively unknown lore" about the Realms and sell it as a hardback.
But whatever... WotC will do what it will do I guess...
-Truthfully, being as that I won't be following the new stuff, it doesn't really bother me, so...
-It was always like that, with DRAGON articles, that could have had "stuff".
-Truthfully, being as that I won't be following the new stuff, it doesn't really bother me, so...
Yet Dragon was always limited by space, timing and print cost concerns. With DDI, they could put up articles any time for minimal cost (they could even keep the presentation very simple, so as to reduce the costs of programming/development). In theory, the more DDI content that's there, the more subscribers they'll draw in for the monthly fee.
Haha, nope, that really is a character of the Giff race, back from 2nd edition - part of the Spelljammer era of Forgotten Realms material. Definitely real, and part of FR canon!
Why does he have an army uniform and a gun?
Why does he have an army uniform and a gun?
Not sure... I never got into Spelljammer all that much myself, as I thought it was too far afield from medieval fantasy for my own campaign.
But maybe one of the Spelljammer enthusiasts would know?
Yet Dragon was always limited by space, timing and print cost concerns. With DDI, they could put up articles any time for minimal cost (they could even keep the presentation very simple, so as to reduce the costs of programming/development). In theory, the more DDI content that's there, the more subscribers they'll draw in for the monthly fee.
-In theory. But, I'm sure the DDI will have limited space for every article, a limited time for people to write contributions, etc.
Why does he have an army uniform and a gun?
-Because the Giff are a militaristic people, and they use guns.
he looks like a cheesy 70s DC character
Hehe that he does. :D I just could never take them seriously.
Now Giant Space Hamsters - they rock!!
-In theory. But, I'm sure the DDI will have limited space for every article, a limited time for people to write contributions, etc.
They've already said that they received tons of material from Ed, "way too much to use in the 4E FRCG", so that's half the battle and it's already paid for as far as the writing goes. ;)
They've already said that they received tons of material from Ed, "way too much to use in the 4E FRCG", so that's half the battle and it's already paid for as far as the writing goes. ;)
-Hey, the proverbial basement full of stuff relevant to the Forgotten Realms has always existed.
-Because the Giff are a militaristic people, and they use guns.
He doesn't look very purple, or the type of hippo to fly...
He doesn't look very purple, or the type of hippo to fly...
-Like other living creatures, when he's cold, or when he dies, he turns a bluish color, and when he's in his Spelljammer, he flies...Whaddya want? :P
He doesn't look very purple, or the type of hippo to fly...
You were hoping for a svelte, stacked, sexy female hippo in a low-cut evening gown, weren't you?
You were hoping for a svelte, stacked, sexy female hippo in a low-cut evening gown, weren't you?
Well... no of course not! I was hoping for a purple hippo with white feathered wings with a top hat and a tie.
Well... no of course not! I was hoping for a purple hippo with white feathered wings with a top hat and a tie.
Hehe! :D