I am writing a story in Nashkel and I would like to know what god would take the place of the dead god Helm in the temple of this town? Will the people turn to Torm or Bahamut or will they still pray a dead god?
When Tyr die Bahamut took Justice in his portfolio. Who took Helm portfolio?
Thanks
Mike
As for who took Helm's portfolio, technically no one. Torm absorbed many of Helm's duties and responsibilities, but not his portfolio. One of the things I dislike about the pantheon in 4E FR is the use of "Spheres"; a deity's only listed as having one apiece, but we know they have others (they wouldn't have just lost the majority of their dogmatic focus following the Spellplague). So even though Helm's portfolios aren't mentioned, they might very well have been absorbed by someone other than Torm (or Bahamut) without our knowledge.
Hope that helps.
I'll copy paste this from Grand history of the realms:
"Tyr's servant deity, Torm the Loyal Fury, was promoted to become the new God of law. Ilmater, the God of suffering and compassion and Bahamut the Platinum Dragon, the new God of justice, joined Torm to form a rejuvanated devine Triad in their shared plane of Celestia."
Hope this answers your question.
Well the new Celestia triad are Torm, Bahamut and Ilmater so you can presume that Helm portpholio was taken over by Bahamut while Torm took over Tyr's portfolio of law.
Actually, I think presume is a bit strong. Helm had more in common with Torm than he did Bahamut. Also, technically speaking, if Torm rose to take Tyr's place, Bahamut's entrance would be to fill Torm's former position. Honestly, I think it's still all a matter of preference.
In the excellent novel Downshadow, the main character is a paladin who follows what he calls "The Threefold God". It is mentionned that when Tyr killed Helm in this strange duel, he absorbed Helm's duties. When he was himself killed in the planar invasion, Torm assumed both gods' portfolios.
There is a group of "tormites" who venerate the Loyal Fury as an incarnation of the three, hence the Threefold God. They are based in Westgate.
Thing is, in my own realms, Helm is still alive and still as powerful as ever. So I can't really apply my own decisions to the matter.
Spoilers
In the excellent novel Downshadow, the main character is a paladin who follows what he calls "The Threefold God". It is mentionned that when Tyr killed Helm in this strange duel, he absorbed Helm's duties. When he was himself killed in the planar invasion, Torm assumed both gods' portfolios.
There is a group of "tormites" who venerate the Loyal Fury as an incarnation of the three, hence the Threefold God. They are based in Westgate.
-I like.
I know I can't convince you to take the plunge, but I really don't think you'll be wasting your $7.99 + tax.
-On the other hand, Faces of Deception, that'd be awesome.
In fact, I'd give just about any reprinted FR novel a go if I hadn't already read it. On a slightly different note, Star of Curserah is one of your top picks, aye? Do you think I (as someone who absorbs all FR novels around me like a sponge filter feeds) would do well to seek out a copy online?
Spoilers
In the excellent novel Downshadow, the main character is a paladin who follows what he calls "The Threefold God". It is mentionned that when Tyr killed Helm in this strange duel, he absorbed Helm's duties. When he was himself killed in the planar invasion, Torm assumed both gods' portfolios.
There is a group of "tormites" who venerate the Loyal Fury as an incarnation of the three, hence the Threefold God. They are based in Westgate.
The idea of a heretical "sect" is an interesting one, not often considered in a Fr world of divine and infernal certainty and demonstration of power through the priesthood.
The lore-lite way of things in 4E FR makes for some specific issues and annoyances, but also perhaps can be grasped upon to demonstrate the lack of certainty of the faithful, and the general population, as to what happened.
The threefold god is intriguing, especially if none of the "absorption" of portfolios actually wilfully happened leaving some interesting possibilities which some of you could use in your campaign.
- Perhaps unabsorbed portfolios orbit like electrons around different deities, the distance of this orbit could vary over time.
- A nearby planar location to either the death-location temporarily absorbs the portfolio perhaps manifesting there with some landmark, large object, or geographical feature.
-or that portfolios do not "manifest" specifically after a deity dies, and relinquishes them, perhaps falling back into Ao's haversack. This leaves open the possibility of "technical" heresy largely unprovable by mortals, but leaving the way open for the fact that groups such as the "Three-fold-god" are not heretics, as the portfolio is adopted in spirit if not specifically by a deity that keeps alive through their already existing personality some or all of the aspects of that portfolio. i.e. Torm being looked to by justice-types as the rightful inheritor even if the acquisition didn't happen.
- Finally another idea that could be pursued if you enjoy inter-faith role-play is that perhaps another gods followers could if the "Will" is there affect which god draws a pantheon "close" to them, in an attempt to encourage the idea of its adoption by said deity.
Look forward to hearing more on the subject of pantheons and consequences from the contributors here.
Actually, I think presume is a bit strong. Helm had more in common with Torm than he did Bahamut. Also, technically speaking, if Torm rose to take Tyr's place, Bahamut's entrance would be to fill Torm's former position. Honestly, I think it's still all a matter of preference.
Hope you did go through the copy paste part from Grand history of the realms. There it is said that Torm took over Tyr and Bahamut over Helm. Even do I feel kinda stupid to tell my ppl go serve Bahamut instead of Helm. I just can't get over the killing of ppl's "favorite" Gods.
Helm, Mystra, Elistralee, Mask were four of the most used Gods, and they left Gods like Dumathoin which nobody ever cared about or used him (xept for the drinking portfolio who would want to serve a dwarf God of exploration, you'll always rather take Moradin) or when I am in dwarven pantheon Vergadain, a god of wealth and luck. Tymora anyone? Or Beshaba?
I find it a bit stupid to kill off that which worked and replace it with ?!?!?! while the things that didn't work are like still here.
Some ideas are very appealing.
I will go for Torm in my campaign.
Mike
Hope you did go through the copy paste part from Grand history of the realms. There it is said that Torm took over Tyr and Bahamut over Helm.
Grand History of the Realms? If you're talking about the original released book, there's nothing in there about Bahamut's ascension. Was there an online update to GHotR I'm not aware of? Also, the FRCG doesn't say Bahamut took over Helm's role. Maybe the FRPG does, but I don't have that (a friend of mine does, I might check with him).
Also, Dumathoin's gone, if I recall correctly. And I'd say Vergadain is as close to Waukeen as he is to Beshaba or Tymora.
As for GhotR here is the link in which Christopher J. Monte edited and epilogued Brian R. James story of events.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16429194/Grand-History-of-the-Realms-Expanded-After-the-Spellplague
On page 16 you can see what Gods have fallen in Dwarven war. Dwarves only lost Gorm and Haela.
As for the qoute I took it is from page 36 how Bahamut took over portfolio of Helm. But imo I don't like how the realms "look" atm and I can't get used to the new Triad, or the anihalation of drow pantheon together with Duergar, but I like the Azmodeus rise to Godhood do.
Only 2 dwarven Gods died in their attack on duergar pantheon, which is 3 dwarf Gods to few imo.
As for GhotR here is the link in which Christopher J. Monte edited and epilogued Brian R. James story of events.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/16429194/Grand-History-of-the-Realms-Expanded-After-the-Spellplague
On page 16 you can see what Gods have fallen in Dwarven war. Dwarves only lost Gorm and Haela.
As for the qoute I took it is from page 36 how Bahamut took over portfolio of Helm. But imo I don't like how the realms "look" atm and I can't get used to the new Triad, or the anihalation of drow pantheon together with Duergar, but I like the Azmodeus rise to Godhood do.
Aye, I know about Gorm Gulthyn and Haela (I'm new to these boards, but I've been an up-to-date Realms fan since the 2E). Dumathoin, though, isn't mentioned in the FRCG; I didn't mean he perished in the attack on Hammergrim, but that he's missing and very likely dead. As for Page 36, I found the quote, but in the context it's used in, it doesn't strike me as saying anything about Helm's succession. It says Bahamut steps up as the new god of justice, but doesn't say anything about him replacing Helm. Personally, it still seems to me that Torm moved up to Tyr's position and Bahamut filled in the void left by Torm's ascension (since Helm was never a member of the Triad).
And I agree with you about the extinction of the drow pantheon. In my own realms, Eilistraee was the only one who passed (I recently posted in the Eilistraee dead in 4E topic about my revision to the whole Lady Penitent plotline in my own game). Losing Deep Duerra isn't something I mind too much and she died in my game (though I have nothing against her), but Laduguer's death doesn't sit well with me, and that's why he still lives in my realms.
Going by the new design philosophy. I am beginning to think that most of the 'forgotten' Gods will be either be made Archfey, or Primal Spirits.
True, but we've been told that Helm got killed in his duel with Tyr, whereas beings like Lurue or Nobanion went unmentioned before being revealed in their new forms. Helm is my favorite FR deity, so there was no way I was going to have him bite the bullet just because his LN dogma didn't fit into the new pantheon and alignment system.
As for AH Shake, I'm afraid in my discussion with Gurmax, I skipped over your reply. Sorry about that.:embarrass Glad to have been of service.
As for Page 36, I found the quote, but in the context it's used in, it doesn't strike me as saying anything about Helm's succession. It says Bahamut steps up as the new god of justice, but doesn't say anything about him replacing Helm. Personally, it still seems to me that Torm moved up to Tyr's position and Bahamut filled in the void left by Torm's ascension (since Helm was never a member of the Triad).
True. But Helm himself was always considered to be the God of justice and most of players know him only as that. With Bahamut becoming the new God of justice it is natural to presume he is the one that took Helm's portfolio.
But like I said, I myself don't care to much, in my realms atm spellplague is raging. I was planing to change the realms compleatly as the spellpague did officialy but decided against it as Wizards "****ed" up a bit to many things imo (in the realms I mean). In my realms many of the Gods that are dead will stay dead, but I will put a new God of magic into it and think we won't switch to 4.0 as most of us didn't like the changes in it.
True. But Helm himself was always considered to be the God of justice and most of players know him only as that. With Bahamut becoming the new God of justice it is natural to presume he is the one that took Helm's portfolio.
Hmm?
Tyr was the god of justice in the three previous editions. In fact, Tyr was the only single-portfolio deity there was in the pantheon. Helm was the god of guardians, vigilance, and protection. Helm never had any claim to justice. On the other hand, Justice was Tyr's entire schtick. At least, this is canonically speaking. Was Helm the god of justice in your own realms?Think I got used to Helm as when ever you got to look into a Neutral God for your cleric it was in all the handbooks first run Helm God of protection and vigilence. Guess my friends got me used to speak of him as God of Justice.
Not that it matters, everyone can follow the realms as they see fit. In the realm of my friend (when he takes the lead in rare ocasions) Bhaal is still the God of Murder and Cyric is his little *****.
Like I said, doesn't matter, everyone has their own vision of realms.
Ah, true. My brain is obviusly sleeping recently. Overall I never liked Tyr tbh so I placed all the things those three stood for into Helm and rarely mentioned Tyr or Torm.
Think I got used to Helm as when ever you got to look into a Neutral God for your cleric it was in all the handbooks first run Helm God of protection and vigilence. Guess my friends got me used to speak of him as God of Justice.
Not that it matters, everyone can follow the realms as they see fit. In the realm of my friend (when he takes the lead in rare ocasions) Bhaal is still the God of Murder and Cyric is his little *****.
Like I said, doesn't matter, everyone has their own vision of realms.
Ah, I see. For a bit there you had me puzzled. I always preferred Helm to Torm and Tyr as well, but I let the latter two do their thing (like I said, Helm's my #1 favorite). As for the whole "personal vision" thing, quite true. I really didn't care for most of the deicides that came with 4E's dawn, so I ignored them, and tweaked the others. Same goes for mechanical changes too. I kept the old alignment system and the old four-level deity ranking system.
Bhaal's actually back in my own game, too as the Lesser God of Assassins, Violence, Ritual Death, and Murder; Cyric's been downgraded to lesser godhood after losing bigtime to Bane and Mask. He now retains only the portfolios of Intrigue, Madness, and Lies, and after being beaten to a pulp in Bane's dungeons, he was sent to the realm of Talona (who became a Greater Power in my realms over the past century) by Bane, as a good-will sign and to renew their old alliance.
Canon should only be the answer when someone wants it to be the answer. That's my personal opinion.
Have the priests turned to a new god? Do they pray to some dark power instead, in desperation? Or do they still pray to Helm, and somehow they're are still recieving spells (which begs the question, "who's providing them?").
Or is the church boarded-up, and an old hermit (the son of the last priest) is living within as a 'crazy recluse'?
Or maybe it's the last surviving priest himself, who imbided a potion of longevity many years ago, back when he was a young acolyte just before the spellplague struck.
Maybe the people have turned from their gods in disgust.
Let your story answer your question, and it will be all the better for it.
Spoilers
In the excellent novel Downshadow, the main character is a paladin who follows what he calls "The Threefold God". It is mentionned that when Tyr killed Helm in this strange duel, he absorbed Helm's duties. When he was himself killed in the planar invasion, Torm assumed both gods' portfolios.
There is a group of "tormites" who venerate the Loyal Fury as an incarnation of the three, hence the Threefold God. They are based in Westgate.
Firstly, thanks, glad you enjoyed it.
Second, the group is called the Eye of Justice. They were founded by Gedrin Shadowbane, a former Night Mask, in the wake of Helm's death, and were sort of thiefly paladins. Religiously, they paid homage to Helm's legacy but their divine power came from Tyr (however briefly) before the god of justice then abdicated, and the Eye sect turned instead to Torm.
More details will be forthcoming in an as-yet unnamed article . . .
Have the priests turned to a new god? Do they pray to some dark power instead, in desperation? Or do they still pray to Helm, and somehow they're are still recieving spells (which begs the question, "who's providing them?").
These are pretty much the operative questions. More to be unveiled re this sect (at least in the baseline Realms--again, as always, your own realms do what they want).
Let your story answer your question, and it will be all the better for it.
Truer words were rarely spoken.
Cheers
P.S. And I believe LK does indeed have access to Downshadow, and at no expense to himself--all he's got to do is borrow a certain signed copy . . .
Interesting. I don't remember seeing you around.:P
*Glances at SmartPaladin's location*
Interesting. I don't remember seeing you around.:P
Clearly, we don't walk in the same circles. :P
Clearly, we don't walk in the same circles. :P
I'm a Helmite, you're a Hoarite. Our paths are bound to cross sooner or later.
HelmI guess not every one can be as awesome as TORM!!!!
:P
I guess not every one can be as awesome as TORM!!!!
:P
-Very true.
Hoar
I guess not every one can be as awesome as TORM!!!!
:P
Truly, Torm get's his own hip cool heresy and new title, Threefold God. Hoar? Bane's *****.
Woe the Lord of Three Thunders. :raincloud
Hoar
I guess not every one can be as awesome as TORM!!!!
:P
Eye of Justice. That's all I have to say.:P
I'll be honest, though, Torm is in my top Ten (Faerunian Pantheon only), which looks something like this. Note that only the first two are set in stone:
1. Helm
2. Mask (Paul Kemp's works had nothing to do with it, though they are excellent)
3. Lliira
4. Tempus
6. Loviatar
7. Beshaba
8. Torm
9. Bane
10a. Garagos
10b. Hoar
I honestly can't decide between Garagos and Hoar. Both have suffered changes for the worse with 4E's deity-maelstrom (not that I'm really recognizing Hoar's alignment change).
Honorable Mentions: Talos, Oghma
Woe the Lord of Three Thunders.
Ah come on, don't let the foolishness of the designers get you down! Just think of Hoar's "new persona" as a facade, which will be dropped along with Bane's guard, when Hoar decides it is time for the Black Hand to get his just desserts.
10a. Garagos
10b. Hoar
I honestly can't decide between Garagos and Hoar. Both have suffered changes for the worse with 4E's deity-maelstrom (not that I'm really recognizing Hoar's alignment change).
*Low bow*
Ah come on, don't let the foolishness of the designers get you down! Just think of Hoar's "new persona" as a facade, which will be dropped along with Bane's guard, when Hoar decides it is time for the Black Hand to get his just desserts.
Oh, I'm sure Hoar is working even more closely with Beshaba to see vengeance upon the Black Hand. Probably because Hoar would feel Beshaba doesn't like being a slave to Bane anymore than he. Though if she does betray him, then that will simply be just another to deal with when the time comes.
Hoar needs new friends.
*Low bow*
Oh, I'm sure Hoar is working even more closely with Beshaba to see vengeance upon the Black Hand. Probably because Hoar would feel Beshaba doesn't like being a slave to Bane anymore than he. Though if she does betray him, then that will simply be just another to deal with when the time comes.
Hoar needs new friends.
Yeah, Hoar's turn to Evil really didn't sit well with me, either. I can see why certain people would see certain actions championed by Hoar to be "evil", but still, that minority opinion isn't true. Lawful Neutral was always my second favorite alignment (behind Chaotic Neutral, go figure). My group updated to 4E, but one of the things we kept was the old alignment system. In my own Realms, Hoar still dwells with Bane in his realm, but he's stayed Lawful Neutral, and certainly doesn't take s__t from the Black Hand.
Also in my realms, Beshaba moved in with Talos (who stayed himself and alive in my game) after feeling Bane's choke-chain begin to tighten around her neck. She still keeps up an alliance with Hoar, though.
Maybe Hoar should strike up a bond with Shevarash (though with this new "one pantheon to rule them all" concept, they're probably at odds). Of course, for those of us ignoring the pantheon super-merge in our games, it's not such a big deal. Hoar would probably get along with Helm well enough (or Eye of Justice Torm for that matter).
Maybe Hoar should strike up a bond with Shevarash (though with this new "one pantheon to rule them all" concept, they're probably at odds). Of course, for those of us ignoring the pantheon super-merge in our games, it's not such a big deal. Hoar would probably get along with Helm well enough (or Eye of Justice Torm for that matter).
Hell, Hoar'd probably get along with Bahamut. Granted, I find myself liking the Platinum Dragon, and feel he makes a good God of Guardians and Nobility. Probably because he's a Dragon. There's a reason why it's so hard to take whatever a Dragon has.
Hell, Hoar'd probably get along with Bahamut. Granted, I find myself liking the Platinum Dragon, and feel he makes a good God of Guardians and Nobility. Probably because he's a Dragon. There's a reason why it's so hard to take whatever a Dragon has.
I'd never have Bahamut as the God of Guardians in my own realms (again, Helmite), but as a god who serves as a guardian of sorts, sure. Though I can see the potential for an alliance...
In my game, the Triad evolved to the Diamond as Tyr left Realmspace and Torm rose to power, so now it's: Torm, Ilmater and Helm, and then Siamorphe. "Diamond" isn't the best name, true, but it beats the Fantastic Four.
Bahamut lives with Lathander, Amaunator (they're two different but related deities in my realms), and Nobanion (admittedly a Primal Spirit) in their realm. I like the idea of Hoar, Bahamut, and a third member creating a new Triad of sorts, with a different name and unifying ideology. Hmmm.
Murdane, the deceased diety pragmatism and reason, would make a good match with Hoar but she'd likely return to Helms arms if he's still around in your Realms. I've always wondered what the diety Murdane's followers were like. If she sided with Hoar she'd likely slowly grow a grudge against Lathander/Aumanator for accidentaly slaying her throught the Dawn Cataclysm, which can give some interesting strife amongst the dieties.
Hoar, Bahamut/Marduk and Anhur? If Hoar could have gotten even with Anhur (without killing him) they might have gotten to join forces.
Murdane, the deceased diety pragmatism and reason, would make a good match with Hoar but she'd likely return to Helms arms if he's still around in your Realms. I've always wondered what the diety Murdane's followers were like. If she sided with Hoar she'd likely slowly grow a grudge against Lathander/Aumanator for accidentaly slaying her throught the Dawn Cataclysm, which can give some interesting strife amongst the dieties.
I had considered bringing Murdane back from the dead; Helm is still alive in my Realms, so yeah, she'd probably end up with him if I had. And you're right, she most likely would hold a grudge against Lathander. But now that I think of it, that might put her at odds with Bahamut, since he and Lathander are close allies in my game.
Anhur, on the other hand, leaps out at me. I could very well see Anhur and Hoar settling their score, and then developing an alliance. There would still be some tension between them, and Bahamut gets to play the middle man. This might cause an uproar in the Mulhorandi Pantheon (which is still around in my games), and Bane would scheme to use Hoar's new alliance for his own benefit.
I think I'm going with Anhur. Thanks very much, Suin Bahhar!Anhur is a rebel at heart, so it might be usefull to upplay his strained relation with the head of the Mulhorandi pantheon, Horus-Re, as the reason why he went into this new alliance.
Did your mulhorandi empire expand and did Horus-Re enjoy his late 14th century succeses? Or has Set managed to rise to power? This might be a reason for Anhur to even totally step out of the mulan pantheon to join the Platinum Dragon and the Lord of Three Thunders.
long live Bahamut
may Bahamut's Fangs rend your enemies
may Ilmater ease their suffering
May Torm grant them their Just deserves
and let Kelemvor sort them out
and Jergal can do the paperwork
Truly, Torm get's his own hip cool heresy and new title, Threefold God. Hoar? Bane's *****.
Woe the Lord of Three Thunders. :raincloud
I liked Torm WAY before 4E. I liked him better as a lesser in a way tho cuz it reprsents his Humbleness. His dogma was all about serving. I LOVE that!
I have Two tattoos one of them is Torm's Symbol. :P People love it and no one knows what it is :D
The Neon Genesis Evangelion logo on my back. And I have The Gauntlet on my left shoulder. I'm playing with the idea of getting Shaundakul's on my right. :P http://www.teamartail.com/anime/images/evangelion/images/logo001.jpg
You, sir, have just earned the highest level of respect another human being can achieve in my books!:D
Meh is no big deal. One time at the beach I had this guy shaking my hand as if I was a hero tho :P Kinda akward ... :D
I have the Seele logo (Lilith's mask) on my left shoulder. I always get questions by random people when they see it. "What is it supposed to be?" I don't even bother telling them the truth, just make up some lie so they'll go away.:D
Hmmmm... So a common theme among the Hands of Karsus is a love of NGE? Excellent.
watched it one on adult swim one whole bunch of days.
to this day, it dropped to the 2nd spot on my most wasted time spent watching anime, the first slot holds eureka 7 I think, another odd ball mecha anime.
gundam was better.
of course none competes with Robotech....
although I'd like it better if I actually liked the idea of converting mechs.
I dont, one or the other
oh and Helm rocks
NGE, thats the odd ball mecha series with the clone girl of some dead girl right??
watched it one on adult swim one whole bunch of days.
to this day, it dropped to the 2nd spot on my most wasted time spent watching anime, the first slot holds eureka 7 I think, another odd ball mecha anime.
gundam was better.
of course none competes with Robotech....
although I'd like it better if I actually liked the idea of converting mechs.
I dont, one or the other
oh and Helm rocks
Lol. I LOVE Gundam, Although the soldier in me ask: "Why bild a war machine and painted Red White Blue and Yellow? Tallgeesse is my favorite mecha ever with Opimus Prime :P
If you put your Mech Goggles on NGE Might not seem all that to you. But If you see it as an interpretaition of the book of revelations in the bible... Master Piece.
I have the Seele logo (Lilith's mask) on my left shoulder. I always get questions by random people when they see it. "What is it supposed to be?" I don't even bother telling them the truth, just make up some lie so they'll go away.:D
Hmmmm... So a common theme among the Hands of Karsus is a love of NGE? Excellent.
That's funny. I do the same where people ask me about Torm's, I tell them is my family zeal from spain. as to the Evangelion one I tell them it means "gospel" (it does in spanish ;))
Ahem to the subject at hand. I think Tallgeesse should be the new Helm.
NGE, thats the odd ball mecha series with the clone girl of some dead girl right??
watched it one on adult swim one whole bunch of days.
Actually, despite the presence of mechs in the series, calling it a mecha series is really selling it short. NGE is without a doubt one of the deepest tour-de-forces in all anime. It has to be embraced on the psychological level to get the full effects.
gundam was better.
As a mecha series, I agree. But overall, NGE blows it and everything else outta the water.:P
of course none competes with Robotech....
Mecha series or any anime? Because if it's the latter, Robotech gets trashed. But if it's just the former, I would agree.
oh and Helm rocks
You speak the truth, my friend.
Oh, and so this entire post isn't off-topic, Helm and Torm are each vastly superior to Tyr. You (as in everyone here) know it to be true.
I think Tallgeesse should be the new Helm.
Well, I can't deny their similar appearances. Maybe Milliardo can be a Chosen of sorts.
(Also, best mecha anime ever is Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.
Speaking of Bahamut, didn't he have some sort of covenant with a country that got completely ignored in 4e? I can't recall offhand but I think it was near Vassa, right? Did the Warlock Knights screw things up for him there?
He made a bond with Damara, which is still around and mentioned in 4E, but is in dire straits. Not just the Warlock Knights' fault.
(Also, best mecha anime ever is Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann.ShowGALAXY-SIZED MECHA! C'MON! HOW CAN YOU GET ANY MORE AWESOME?! YOU CAN'T!
Lol. I LOVE Gundam, Although the soldier in me ask: "Why bild a war machine and painted Red White Blue and Yellow? Tallgeesse is my favorite mecha ever with Opimus Prime :P
If you put your Mech Goggles on NGE Might not seem all that to you. But If you see it as an interpretaition of the book of revelations in the bible... Master Piece.
Death scythe Hell Custom
the god of death is back from hell!!!!
:P
-Gundam Wing, extremely overrated.
I loved Wing, but I always thought it was strange that the first names of a third of the cast were numbers.
Gundam: The 08th MS Team, and Gundam 0083: Stardust Memory, now those are the best Gundam series'. The UC timeline trumps everything else that exists in the "Gundamverse".
08th MS Team was way better than Gundam 0083, IMO.
And just so this is even close to anything approaching on-topic, I wish Gond would inspire his followers to create Gundams. Oh, what possibilities...
and I dont like Evangaleion.
hates it.
I can dis gundam: 083 though, didnt like it.
ms: 8th was pretty good.
and just never betray your trust.
Gond building gundams??
no, they'd be steam powered and would never work, they either have over using magic wands and rods our repeating cross bows and would have issues with over heating.
that steam wouldnt be powerful enough to move admantium
At Lord Manshoon
I have a d20 future book that has rule for mechs AND how to fuse them Voltro/power rangers/ guren lagann style. so IT CAN BE DONE
Zetchs And Tallgeesse for the new Law god :P
and I dont like Evangaleion.
hates it.
Well, fair enough. Everyone's opinion is equally valid. No wait, I'm being far too kind. I insist you must burn at the stake for your heresies. :P
I can dis gundam: 083 though, didnt like it.
ms: 8th was pretty good.
We see eye to eye again.
Gond building gundams??
It can work if you believe! Hells, maybe the Gundams are Gond's Chosen. I'm starting a new heresy on Gond's behalf: The Mobile Suit Heresy. Wouldn't that just suck for all the other blessed saints of Toril? :D
Zetchs And Tallgeesse for the new Law god :P
What would become of Torm, then? Maybe he would have to find his own Mobile Suit and duel Zechs/Milliardo in the Tallgeese.
I miss the one that remember little people deeds and rewards them even if they didn't really "worship" him. Like he did to Gwidon (sp) He gave him The "Giants Bane" (witch show he was looking at Cyric's mistreatment) but he went to Cyric's face personaly IN Cyris's domain, to demand Gwidon's soul. THAT'S LOYALTY. Loyal fury indeed. :D
there's alot more to Torm than just "law". He Cared for his follower before ToT he was the lil man god. The god of "some one has to do the dirty buisness, let it be me" Not to mention The Brass Balls it took to be a lil lesser ol him Vs Greater ol Big Bane. I miss the subordinate Torm the small and humble one. :sad:
I miss the one that remember little people deeds and rewards them even if they didn't really "worship" him. Like he did to Gwidon (sp) He gave him The "Giants Bane" (witch show he was looking at Cyric's mistreatment) but he went to Cyric's face personaly IN Cyris's domain, to demand Gwidon's soul. THAT'S LOYALTY. Loyal fury indeed. :D
I know, don't worry.
This is why Torm makes my Faerunian Top 10. Yet the designers relegated him to "Law" with this whole Spheres nonsense. I still use the "bunch of portfolios" set-up, myself. Preserves the awesomeness that is the Loyal Fury.COL: Specialist Ortega, you knew about the afair between Pvt and SGT ?
Me: Yes Sir.
COL: Why you didn't come foward with this then? You Know they were in the wrong.
Me: With all due respect Sir. I advise her agains it, but she went on with it regardless. But she's my friend and the closest thing I have for family. And I care about her more than anyone else in this unit.
COL:..... *Gaze Of Death*
Me: *rolls Fort Save* 20!
:D
COL: Specialist Ortega, you knew about the afair between Pvt and SGT ?
Me: Yes Sir.
COL: Why you didn't come foward with this then? You Know they were in the wrong.
Me: With all due respect Sir. I advise her agains it, but she went on with it regardless. But she's my friend and the closest thing I have for family. And I care about her more than anyone else in this unit.
COL:..... *Gaze Of Death*
Me: *rolls Fort Save* 20!
:D
Good:D I Identify myself with Torm alot. I kinda got in trouble with a Colonel one time for my loyalties.
COL: Specialist Ortega, you knew about the afair between Pvt and SGT ?
Me: Yes Sir.
COL: Why you didn't come foward with this then? You Know they were in the wrong.
Me: With all due respect Sir. I advise her agains it, but she went on with it regardless. But she's my friend and the closest thing I have for family. And I care about her more than anyone else in this unit.
COL:..... *Gaze Of Death*
Me: *rolls Fort Save* 20!
:D
You should've gauged your colonel's character; made him try to read any line on either of your gauntlets. If he couldn't, we'd know his soul is lost (for the time being). :D
That is, unless he was channeling his inner Helm.:fight!:
We need to stop talking about the awesomeness that is Torm. It reminds me the whole fiasco
Fair enough.
We need a new mini-topic, then. Preferably one more on-topic than anime we like. You know what? Screw it. Back to merging anime with the lawful Faerunian deities. Thus preserving that lovely tangentially on-topic status.I shall have Helm and Gond ally to create the Mobile Suits, in accordance with my new Mobile Suit Heresy. The little gnomes on Lantan (which survives in my game) will have a month-long celebration when they receive this new divine vision from the Wonderbringer. :lightbulb
If Gnomes would build Mechas, It will definately be Lagann ish stuff. they are mini, annoyingly cute AND are terra themed ...
True. That's why Helm's in the deal. His stern crusaders will keep the little fu___rs in line. There's room for creativity, but not "Drills popping out of every nook and cranny" insanity.
If Gnomes would build Mechas, It will definately be Lagann ish stuff. they are mini, annoyingly cute AND are terra themed ...
does a shadowclone technique and looks to his left while looking to his right..
and in a hushed tone:
you know, they do have mechas in dnd even in the realms, that Kwalish asparatus.
otherwise:
Pilotable Golem:
Gargantuan VEhicle
500 hp
uses Gargantuan Iron Golem stats
armaments include Repeating Crossbow( remember the quiver with unlimmited arrows) and Longsword of Force.....
Made of Admantium, these pilotable Golems are lost toys from Ancient Netheril. They were originally Created by a Human named Gondarath Malk, who created these nightmarish vehicles on a dare and a bet from a gnome. These Golems stand some 15 meters high, and are nimble enough but cant really move overly fast, but are capable in the hands of a skilled pilot at dishing out massive damage, as well as being able to absorb damage. however some time after the original beast was built, Gondarath Malk disappeared through one of Toril's time portals to gain power and knowledge to increase the damage output on his pilotable golems. He eventually did find a way, but was stopped from doing it by Ogmha stating not to do that as it was to powerful, but asked him in return if he would rather become a god in his service, He readily agreed and became a demi god that day.
Not long after this He shortened his name to Gond and called himself the wonderbringer and left many ingenious designs and contraptions across FAerun, and finally on Lantan left Toril alltogether one year becoming a full god under Ogmha 30 years later. Not till the time of troubles would Fearun see the invention of Gond's that could increase the damage output, thankfully they only say half, and it became known as Smokepowder.
Ogmha wasnt thrilled
odder things to think about:
Kwalish asparatus with armaments
a pilotable Golem walker version, complete with repeating balista and mounts for crossbowmen....
and I will thank you never to give me an idea again, or by Bahamut's Fangs I will have my revenge!!!
a pilotable Golem walker version, complete with repeating balista and mounts for crossbowmen....
and I will thank you never to give me an idea again, or by Bahamut's Fangs I will have my revenge!!!
It needs a beam saber, though.:P
It needs a beam saber, though.:P
problem there, a walker version, like the AT-Te, no arms, no mouth either, not like the quad gundams used in the dessert.
and as far as beam sabers go, sword of force would come closest.....
problem there, a walker version, like the AT-Te, no arms, no mouth either, not like the quad gundams used in the dessert.
Then give it arms, for Gond's sake!
and as far as beam sabers go, sword of force would come closest.....
That'll work. Either that, or concentrated Spellplague energy in a blade shape.
maybe a wemic version...
Lord Manshoon, the top one had arms, the odder things to think about, was a walker, and a centaur version wouldnt work...
maybe a wemic version...
Wemic would work.
Now to equip them with N2 explosives and AT Fields.:D
Faerun is doomed.
In the FRCG, the sphere of Protection belongs to Garl Glittergold.
Faerun is doomed.
Only if you choose to accept this whole Spheres nonsense. Me? I'm sticking with portfolios. ;) This whole one-and-done deal just seems so bland.
Only if you choose to accept this whole Spheres nonsense. Me? I'm sticking with portfolios. ;) This whole one-and-done deal just seems so bland.
I've convinced my DM to keep Helm alive (we gave him the Protection, Strength, and Skill domains), so I've made a 16th level Paladin/Gray Guard of Helm. My excitement is supreme. I took the Strength domain. +3 damage with Holy Strike? Yes, please!
Only if you choose to accept this whole Spheres nonsense. Me? I'm sticking with portfolios. ;) This whole one-and-done deal just seems so bland.
That and sticking with the 3.5 and prior Realms.
That and sticking with the 3.5 and prior Realms.
I feel I can deal with the 4E Realms. Even a century later, I can still salvage most of the prior lore, and whatever I don't like, I don't use. Plus, a Realms without Helm is not a Realms I want to see. So even if the only new canon Helmite lore comes in the form of the Eye of Justice (which is still awesome no matter how you look at it), I've still got the Watcher in my Realms.
Never Betray your Trust !!!!
I feel I can deal with the 4E Realms. Even a century later, I can still salvage most of the prior lore, and whatever I don't like, I don't use. Plus, a Realms without Helm is not a Realms I want to see. So even if the only new canon Helmite lore comes in the form of the Eye of Justice (which is still awesome no matter how you look at it), I've still got the Watcher in my Realms.
I just didn't like the whole spellplague bit and the "thinning the god pool".
So do I.
Never Betray your Trust !!!!
:fight!:
I just didn't like the whole spellplague bit and the "thinning the god pool".
Regarding the Spellplague, I was always able to live with it. I just didn't allow it to randomly annihilate what the designers deemed "baggage". Because in my eyes, nothing is truly baggage unless you wish it to be. I still have plenty of uses for what the design team scrapped. So, while the Spellplague happened in my realms, it damaged what I wanted it to damage, and I diverted it away when I desired it so. As for the mass deicides, I agree completely. Most of these changes were made for simplicity's sake. I can understand that, but as someone who plays in a group that not only accepts, but thrives on complexity, the god deaths are not something I appreciate. Which is why almost all of the pre-Spellplague deities are still alive and still themselves.
-Hey, I'm happy this somehow got close to the topic again! :P
In all fairness, the OP's question was resolved on the first page. However... Allow me to push it a bit closer. In my game, Helm is still alive, more powerful than ever, and is in the first stages of a relationship with Siamorphe. The Watcher is on a roll!
In my game, Helm is still alive, more powerful than ever, and is in the first stages of a relationship with Siamorphe. The Watcher is on a roll!
Same here, save that in my homebrew he is back with his old lover Murdane instead.
We need to stop talking about the awesomeness that is Torm. It reminds me the whole fiasco
I agree, you...need...to start talking about the awesomeness of Cyric!:P
I agree, you...need...to start talking about the awesomeness of Cyric!:P
When Cyric manages to escape his lame house arrest without designer intervention, then yes, he will get compliments from me. Until then, however, he's still Shar's little whipping boy.:P
Think about it, while Lord Cyric is imprisoned that means he cannot be touched, yet Shar
can be touched. Not in that way either, I know what you are thinking.:P So while all of the Living Realms are focused on defeating Her and Her minions, my Lord's plans shall come to fruition and success!
:evillaugh Think about it, while Lord Cyric is imprisoned that means he cannot be touched, yet Shar
So while all of the Living Realms are focused on defeating Her and Her minions, my Lord's plans shall come to fruition and success!
Any chance you and your brothers could aim for Cyric's return to be at great cost to Shar? The Prince of Lies would get bonus points in my book if he royally screwed over Shar with his freedom.
It will bring GREAT pain and sorrow to all who stand against HIM.
But that makes it sound like Shar would benefit, Ao damn it!
Ah well, as long as it involves the magnificent Malik el Sami yn Naddar. One of my favorite minor NPCs; in fact, in my own realms he's the Exarch of Cyric (though my own version of "Exarch" differs from the official one).
And in an attempt to move back towards on-topic territory, I would love a holy war between Cyric's followers and Torm's faithful. Torm vs Bane would be even better, with Helm's church as a middle ground of sorts.
Let His enemies weaken each other, so He and his cohorts can sweep the battlefield clean, and reap the rewards.
Malik el Sami yn Naddar is a punk!
I only said Pain and sorrow to His enemies in that other post.:D
Not the Destruction of all creation.
Torm vs Bane vs Helm vs Try would be better.:D
He similar to Tyr in any way?:P
Plus, Cyric can't do something that grand until he sucks it up and frees himself. Okay, let's face it, Cyric can't do something that grand at full strength. It's just not in him.
Malik el Sami yn Naddar is a punk!
Yet he's still the highest-ranking Cyricist in existence.
I only said Pain and sorrow to His enemies in that other post.:D
Not the Destruction of all creation.
Still gives her power.
He similar to Tyr in any way?:P
Gosh, gee, uhm, yeah that.:embarrass
Fixed!:P
Malik el Sami yn Naddar is still a punk.:D
Shar will get what is coming to her, you better believe it.
Shar will get what is coming to her, you better believe it.
And the Lord of Three Thunders shall see it done, once he has removed Bane. Then mayhaps, he shall come for Cyric.
And the Lord of Three Blunders shall see it done, once he has removed Bane. Then mayhaps, he shall come for Cyric.
I had to fix it for you.:P
Defeat his enemies for him forces of purity and justice.
;)Hey guys- check out page 98 in Erik Scott De Bie's Downshadow novel. I am a huge fan of Helm and Erik always knows how to tease me ;)
Well aware.:D It's always good to meet a fellow Helmite.
Downshadow is one of the finest FR novels ever written, and Kalen is my favorite new character.
Erik and Helm... the perfect duo.
:DNow that Tormite, or could I, dare I say Termite
stuff is Kalen is a pretty kick butt character, interesting Plaguescar also.
I had to fix it for you.:P
Defeat his enemies for him forces of purity and justice.
At least he taps more A than Cyric!
so...is that all you could think of?:P
I do agree that Downshadow is a very, and I mean very good novel.:D Now that Tormite, or could I, dare I say Termite
Heh. To clarify, there are a number of different ways to refer to Torm worshippers--personally, I prefer Tormtar. Tormite is sort of a deprecating term, in many circles.
I used Tormite in my book for two reasons: one, because it's official (according to the FRCG), and two because it's deprecating. Kalen thinks of mainstream Torm-worshippers as pretty much softies/wimps.
Cheers
LONG LIVE THE MEMORY OF HELM!
At least he taps more A than Cyric!
And I am really curious who we're talking about here. Because Cyric gets around, y'know.
Cheers
Eh, only thing that spring to mind at the time.
At least he taps more A than Cyric!
And I am really curious who we're talking about here. Because Cyric gets around, y'know.Cheers
Yes, but Hoar has the whole age advantage thing going on. Cyric could boast about how he slept with X, and Hoar could mention how he slept with X long before Cyric's Great Grandsire was a wet dream of his Great-Great Grandsire. Or something like that anyway. Knowing our luck, Hoar would just say "Good for you? Want a prize or something for that O so insermountable task? Not like anyone has ever slept with Sharess before." Yeah, that's probably it. 
At least he taps more A than Cyric!
And I am really curious who we're talking about here. Because Cyric gets around, y'know.Cheers
Not to disagree, but how? Cyric is trapped in the Supreme Throne. He's alone, and he can't hook up with anyone. He can't have gotten any for the past century. That means his only release is mastu....
You know what? Nevermind. I don't want to travel down that road.
I dont believe the Supreme Throne is an empty place... Enough dark angels to satisfy even a gods apetite.
Hail the supreme glory that's Cyric. *winks*
Angels, lol, more like slaadi, howlers (ouch) or beasts of bedlam.
Not to disagree, but how? Cyric is trapped in the Supreme Throne. He's alone, and he can't hook up with anyone. He can't have gotten any for the past century.
No wonder he's nuts.
Seriously though--I was always under the impression that the root of his madness was unrequited feelings for Midnight.
Cheers
Seriously though--I was always under the impression that the root of his madness was unrequited feelings for Midnight.
My thoughts are similar. However, personally, I think Midnight's cold shoulder was only him hitting rock bottom. Cyric had a miserable life, and it seems to me the average person would suffer a great deal of mental stress in such a situation. Being turned down by Midnight probably shattered the already (seriously) cracked window that was Cyric's mind.
Alright Unbelievers, move along now.
Nothing to see here.
Go talk about those False Ones Bane or Shar.:razz:
Alright Unbelievers, move along now.
Nothing to see here.
Go talk about those False Ones Bane or Shar.:razz:
Well, if you insist, we'll talk about those two.
Anyone else notice how incredibly superior Bane and Shar are to Cyric?
(You know, looking at this new, pretender smilie, I feel a part of my soul wither with longing for the old horde of smilies.)
Alright Unbelievers, move along now.
Nothing to see here.
Go talk about those False Ones Bane or Shar.:razz:
Well, if you insist, we'll talk about those two.
Anyone else notice how incredibly superior Bane and Shar are to Cyric?
(You know, looking at this new, pretender smilie, I feel a part of my soul wither with longing for the old horde of smilies.)
That is why I am refusing to use them now!
Cyric is better than both of them because I said so....:P
Alright Unbelievers, move along now.
Nothing to see here.
Go talk about those False Ones Bane or Shar.:razz:
Well, if you insist, we'll talk about those two.
Anyone else notice how incredibly superior Bane and Shar are to Cyric?
(You know, looking at this new, pretender smilie, I feel a part of my soul wither with longing for the old horde of smilies.)
That is why I am refusing to use them now!Cyric is better than both of them because I said so....:P
I personally miss the sigs. Unless they're still here and I'm just missing 'em.
Also, can we at least agree that Hoar is far better that both Bane and Shar? Though I'd love to see Hoar break free of Bane, give Shevarash vengence, shift over to unaligned and take a more Zen outlook on life. Become a God of Retribution, and be as karma. Hells, it's even in line with "Poetic Justice"!
I personally miss the sigs. Unless they're still here and I'm just missing 'em.Also, can we at least agree that Hoar is far better that both Bane and Shar? Though I'd love to see Hoar break free of Bane, give Shevarash vengence, shift over to unaligned and take a more Zen outlook on life. Become a God of Retribution, and be as karma. Hells, it's even in line with "Poetic Justice"!
That sounds Kosher to me. As long as Bane gets his little butt kicked around I will be happy
Smartpaladin, at the top of THIS PAGE is a red link that says Preferences . Click it for sig goodness.
and Helm will have his revenge via Assuran will kick Cyric's followers tushie while he is playing Bane for a sap by playing I'm evil now, and nobody will ever know that Torm askled him to do it.....
And then Helm and Gond will unleash the Gundams and annihilate the followers of Shar, for kicks.
Cool. I've successfully managed to get back to my Mobile Suit Heresy.
I still have those mobile suit golems under myth drannor.....
I still have those mobile suit golems under myth drannor.....
Hey, I'd keep mine anywhere near a shrine/temple/cathedral to Helm or Gond. It would eventually get pretty ridiculous, but people could go their entire lives without ever seeing one. Eventually, some other divine being would spawn the FR equivalent of Evangelions. And then, Toril would come to an end, cause once you get to the Eva units, you can't progress any further. And once Toril's potential meets its pinnacle, it all goes down from there. So it won't be Shar who destroys Toril. It will be Hideaki Anno's brilliance channeled through my insanity. Muhahaha...
The elves have *better* mecha. *nods sagely*
your jealous becuase I thought of posting here first...
Actually I was snipping at LM. :P
The elves have *better* mecha. *nods sagely*
Then maybe they'll introduce the Evas. Evangelions > All other mecha.
It matters not who introduces them. The point is once you reach the Evas, you've reached the end of the road. Because the Evas are also quasi-divine beings. So Corellon can go watch NGE and put his plan into action.
Cyric's Mecha is better!
Cyric's Mecha is better!
He can't even spell mecha, let alone command one. No, seriously, he can't. As a dirt-poor thief, he wouldn't have learned how to say/spell it as a mortal, and being a god doesn't give you super-intelligence (unless you have the Intelligence/Knowledge portfolios). Besides, everyone knows Cyric's favorite anime is Tenchi Universe. No mechas there.
Oh, and by the way: 
I hate TEnchi.....
the only good characters were the scientist and the pirate girl.
the rest blows........
Helm will smash them, and Assuran will do the paperwork
Cyric's Mecha is better!
He can't even spell mecha, let alone command one. No, seriously, he can't. As a dirt-poor thief, he wouldn't have learned how to say/spell it as a mortal, and being a god doesn't give you super-intelligence (unless you have the Intelligence/Knowledge portfolios). Besides, everyone knows Cyric's favorite anime is Tenchi Universe. No mechas there.Oh, and by the way:
I think that's a bit unfair, LordManshoon. Just because Cyric was dirt-poor doesn't mean he would be unable to SAY it, after all.
By the way, why is your last smiley vomiting?
I think that's a bit unfair, LordManshoon. Just because Cyric was dirt-poor doesn't mean he would be unable to SAY it, after all.By the way, why is your last smiley vomiting?
Fixed it for ya. Bold added by me.:D
That was the Foot in Mouth smilie.
I think that's a bit unfair, LordManshoon. Just because Cyric was dirt-poor doesn't mean he would be unable to SAY it, after all.
By the way, why is your last smiley vomiting?
You're quite right. I was being unfair. A dirt-poor thief could pronounce mecha. I suppose Cyric just can't because he's thick as a brick. And I just used four random smilies. I didn't notice it looked like one of them was spewing, but I don't have any kinship with this new breed of smilies, so I hope that one has a stomach virus.
I hate TEnchi.....
the only good characters were the scientist [Washu] and the pirate girl [Ryoko].
the rest blows........
Helm will smash them, and Assuran will do the paperwork
Insert/bold mine. Tenchi Muyo and its cousins were some of the first anime series I watched. Hell, I've been nostalgic and been rewatching both Tenchi Universe and Tenchi in Tokyo. And while I don't dislike any characters, I do agree that Ryoko is the best. And just so this isn't too off-topic, yes, Helm is quite good at smashing things. Especially after Gond sharpens Ever Watchful at his forge. The more I think about it, the more I like an alliance between Gond and Helm. Their relationship isn't one that leaps out by any means, but they wouldn't step on each other's toes at any turn.
amongst the first for me as well.... back when it was on adult swim.
however they abruptly ended one and started another, wasnt bad, but its no Inuyasha either.
Behold the Return of Helm is at hand......
Cyric is waiting.:P
Cyric is waiting.:P
Of course he is. He's under house arrest. He has nothing better to do than wait. And talk to himself.
He could learn to read. Or count.
He could learn to read. Or count.
I can see him now, complaining that the Hooked on Phonics kit he ordered is too difficult. Poor Cyric. Being surpassed by first-graders.
he could learn to speak a foriegn laguage.
but then he'd say Rosetta Stone , didnt pay my power bill
Ha, ha, hardy, har, har, har. Very funny guys.:P
I get no respect!
Cyric please forgive them they know not what thay do. And if they do know, well then...
Cyric please forgive them they know not what thay do. And if they do know, well then...
Funny. I never considered Cyric the forgiveness type. More the (blind) vengeful wrath type.
Its called Irony...:P
Its called Irony...:P
That Cyric is ignoring your prayers? That sounds more tragic than ironic. You should convert... to Bane.
EDIT: My 666th post! Excellent.
Nay, he should convert to Corellon. 
your both wrong, he should convert to the church of Helm and pay homage to Corellon, and Gond in that order.
this way he gets a mobile suit golem
this way he gets a mobile suit golem
*imagines Delta piloting a mobile suit*
*sees him crash into a mountain*
Gee, I can't see how that wouldn't spell (hilarious) disaster.
this way he gets a mobile suit golem
*imagines Delta piloting a mobile suit**sees him crash into a mountain*
Gee, I can't see how that wouldn't spell (hilarious) disaster.
sees Delta crash and burn his golem into mountain, ironically he uncovers fabled ruids of the city of rubies......
all FAerun will know his name.
now only if he can escape the shades so he can capitalize on it
Hoar
Ok, Ody front and center post.
Drop and give me 50 you maggot!
Your days of being the "Sickcall Ranger" are over.
Do you understand me soldier?
This should motivate him to get it in gear and get back in the game...
Ok. That was really interesting.
Now back to Helm successor...
Its called Irony...:P
That Cyric is ignoring your prayers? That sounds more tragic than ironic. You should convert... to Bane.EDIT: My 666th post! Excellent.
No, he said Irony, therefore, Hoar.
Come, my son. Let the cries for vengeance give you purpose, and the rumble of Three Thunders, direction.
while 3 thunders was very entertaining, the best defense comment is still best.
a good offense is a good defense,
Helm will return, and when he does all of the Brandish Liars that follow that worm Cyric, will know that he only succeded for a little while, and partied to hardy way to soon.
NEVER BETRAY YOUR TRUST!!!!!
Right.
Silly followers of the 3 blunders...I wonder if they will catch this secret message?
I have always considered the path of a Helm worshipper, spreading the word, keeping the faith from vanishing and leading through example to the point of personifying all that the church of Helm represents an excellent choice for a Demigod-oriented divine character. In the end you will be the catalyst-through you Hel will be reborn.
As a variation, you might be Helm, the last spark, all that's left from the Watchful One in the Realms(perhaps as a Deva?). Can you return to godhood?
Ok. That was really interesting.
Now back to Hem successor...
Who was talking about that oaf Hem? We're looking for a succesor to Helm.
And if you didn't notice, the question was resolved ages ago. We're just continuing discussion pertaining to Helm (and Hoar). And how both are superior to the other deities, especially cliche emo goddesses who cry and lurk in darkness.
Helm will return, and when he does all of the Brandish Liars that follow that worm Cyric, will know that he only succeded for a little while, and partied to hardy way to soon.NEVER BETRAY YOUR TRUST!!!!!
Damn straight!
Actually, I think presume is a bit strong. Helm had more in common with Torm than he did Bahamut. Also, technically speaking, if Torm rose to take Tyr's place, Bahamut's entrance would be to fill Torm's former position. Honestly, I think it's still all a matter of preference.
Hope you did go through the copy paste part from Grand history of the realms. There it is said that Torm took over Tyr and Bahamut over Helm. Even do I feel kinda stupid to tell my ppl go serve Bahamut instead of Helm. I just can't get over the killing of ppl's "favorite" Gods. Helm, Mystra, Elistralee, Mask were four of the most used Gods, and they left Gods like Dumathoin which nobody ever cared about or used him (xept for the drinking portfolio who would want to serve a dwarf God of exploration, you'll always rather take Moradin) or when I am in dwarven pantheon Vergadain, a god of wealth and luck. Tymora anyone? Or Beshaba? I find it a bit stupid to kill off that which worked and replace it with ?!?!?! while the things that didn't work are like still here.
In our FR games, we've used Elistraee, Torm, Lurue, Haleil Brightaxe(sp?) and Deneir.
There were probably a few others but those that I can think of....
That and sticking with the 3.5 and prior Realms.
I feel I can deal with the 4E Realms. Even a century later, I can still salvage most of the prior lore, and whatever I don't like, I don't use. Plus, a Realms without Helm is not a Realms I want to see. So even if the only new canon Helmite lore comes in the form of the Eye of Justice (which is still awesome no matter how you look at it), I've still got the Watcher in my Realms.
I've only read a little of the 4e Realms. Our group still sticks with 3.5 rules and the only FR we're doing now is the 3-book adventure series, starting with Cormyr: Tearing Of The Weave.
I do agree that Downshadow is a very, and I mean very good novel.:D Now that Tormite, or could I, dare I say Termite
Heh. To clarify, there are a number of different ways to refer to Torm worshippers--personally, I prefer Tormtar. Tormite is sort of a deprecating term, in many circles.I used Tormite in my book for two reasons: one, because it's official (according to the FRCG), and two because it's deprecating. Kalen thinks of mainstream Torm-worshippers as pretty much softies/wimps.
Cheers
I have never liked "Tormite" either. Best I could come up with was "Tormian".
And my first FR character, a cleric of Torm was much more of a b**** than a "softie".
Seriously though--I was always under the impression that the root of his madness was unrequited feelings for Midnight.
My thoughts are similar. However, personally, I think Midnight's cold shoulder was only him hitting rock bottom. Cyric had a miserable life, and it seems to me the average person would suffer a great deal of mental stress in such a situation. Being turned down by Midnight probably shattered the already (seriously) cracked window that was Cyric's mind.
She might've liked him had he not acted the [donkey].
Seriously though--I was always under the impression that the root of his madness was unrequited feelings for Midnight.
My thoughts are similar. However, personally, I think Midnight's cold shoulder was only him hitting rock bottom. Cyric had a miserable life, and it seems to me the average person would suffer a great deal of mental stress in such a situation. Being turned down by Midnight probably shattered the already (seriously) cracked window that was Cyric's mind.
She might've liked him had he not acted the [donkey].
I wasn't too interested in Cyric's whole twisted love deal. It was clear from the start nothing was going to happen. I think the highlight of that entire series for me was watching Helm splatter Mystra across the earth. That was fun (although it did deprive Helm of his lover). Now that I think about it, I need to play Helm's courtship of Siamorphe in my own game. LN deities need lovin, too!
Helm had a thing for Mystra?
If so, when'd that happen?
Helm had a thing for Mystra?
If so, when'd that happen?
There really aren't many details. I believe it was Mystra's Chosen (either in the Avatar or Shadow of the Avatar books) who mentioned it. The reason Mystra had time to prepare her energy and send it Midnight's way before being cast down during the ToT was because Helm, Ao's right hand man and her lover at the time, warned her of what was to come. It came to an end during the confrontation between then-mortalized Mystra and still-divine Helm, when the former tried to force her way back into the divine realms without fulfilling Ao's demands and the latter was bound by his orders to annihilate her. How long it lasted before this is a mystery, I believe.
Helm had a thing for Mystra?
If so, when'd that happen?
There really aren't many details. I believe it was Mystra's Chosen (either in the Avatar or Shadow of the Avatar books) who mentioned it. The reason Mystra had time to prepare her energy and send it Midnight's way before being cast down during the ToT was because Helm, Ao's right hand man and her lover at the time, warned her of what was to come. It came to an end during the confrontation between then-mortalized Mystra and still-divine Helm, when the former tried to force her way back into the divine realms without fulfilling Ao's demands and the latter was bound by his orders to annihilate her. How long it lasted before this is a mystery, I believe.
No wonder why I didn't know.... Haven't read those particular books. Now the ToT books, yeah and there's no hinting of such a relationship.
Helm had a thing for Mystra?
If so, when'd that happen?
There really aren't many details. I believe it was Mystra's Chosen (either in the Avatar or Shadow of the Avatar books) who mentioned it. The reason Mystra had time to prepare her energy and send it Midnight's way before being cast down during the ToT was because Helm, Ao's right hand man and her lover at the time, warned her of what was to come. It came to an end during the confrontation between then-mortalized Mystra and still-divine Helm, when the former tried to force her way back into the divine realms without fulfilling Ao's demands and the latter was bound by his orders to annihilate her. How long it lasted before this is a mystery, I believe.
No wonder why I didn't know.... Haven't read those particular books. Now the ToT books, yeah and there's no hinting of such a relationship.
The Avatar Series and the Shadow of the Avatar Trilogy are the ToT books. I just wish I could recall the one in which it appeared.
Helm had a thing for Mystra?
If so, when'd that happen?
There really aren't many details. I believe it was Mystra's Chosen (either in the Avatar or Shadow of the Avatar books) who mentioned it. The reason Mystra had time to prepare her energy and send it Midnight's way before being cast down during the ToT was because Helm, Ao's right hand man and her lover at the time, warned her of what was to come. It came to an end during the confrontation between then-mortalized Mystra and still-divine Helm, when the former tried to force her way back into the divine realms without fulfilling Ao's demands and the latter was bound by his orders to annihilate her. How long it lasted before this is a mystery, I believe.
No wonder why I didn't know.... Haven't read those particular books. Now the ToT books, yeah and there's no hinting of such a relationship.
The Avatar Series and the Shadow of the Avatar Trilogy are the ToT books. I just wish I could recall the one in which it appeared.
The ones I read (Shadowdale, Tantras, et. al.) were the ones I read. I think I've got the others but I'm starting Downshadow now.
Helm's might shall not disappear from this, the first page of Realmslore.
Now to brainstorm my Chosen Sentinel of Helm. Oh, how the fickle gods and their wretched sheep will tremble when he/she brings the lawful wrath of the Watcher down upon their heads.
just remember to have him slay Mcshadypants....
just remember to have him slay Mcshadypants....
He has bigger aboleth to gut than the doppleganger impersonating Derethor. He has a few Princes of Shade to exterminate.
ahhh but Mcshadypants has connections..... and those connections hold secret papers on how to get places unseen....
I've recently got into the 4th ED and the death of Helm weights heavyly upon me. Even though I worship Torm since it is more humble beginnings I regarded Helm like a close friend/ally. How could they kill the vigilant one? He who always watches over us? Makes me want to shed a tear and go on a blind rage to quest for his return.
The answer to who should take his place is simple for me: none. Bring him back even if the alignment system has changed.
Also sorry but, imo, Cyric is not good enough to be a greater deity. For me he is a lame lunatic who should be working as a goofer cleaning streets, not being a greater god. Bhall and other evil gods would fit his role better.
I also did not like the incorporation of Lathander on Amaunator too. It's like supplanting a young and strong paladin who loves life and and fight for all things sacred from light for a old scriber/king that thinks only of bureucracy and smells of selfishness/snobness.
May Helm return one day, there are still good forces in the realms that can't be so easily deceived into killing each-other.
they got rid of him, becuase he was lawful and had access to the law domain.
and they said lets axe Helm becuase he is a god of law and just how many of them do we need?
well okay maybe it didnt really hgappen this way, but they said the same about Sehanine Moonbow, Eilistraee, vhaerun , may not be on law of them, but it...
welll anyway, I veared off from Canon on this, left Helm alive and have him dating Siamorphe
afaiac, the god's portfolios determine what type of god they are not the domains they grant.
and being that I like a few many others have been around for a while and know that Garl is the chief gnome god, and rumor stats he is ptortection now, I dont see any of my non gnomish chars praying to him for protection
they got rid of him, becuase he was lawful and had access to the law domain.
and they said lets axe Helm becuase he is a god of law and just how many of them do we need?
Well, it's a bit more than that. Helm was Lawful Neutral, but it goes beyond just that. He was perhaps the most morally ambiguous deity in the Realms, but this ambiguity was combined with an unflinching sense of duty and resolution. Those things didn't fit in with the Unaligned alignment, and making Helm Good or Evil would destroy him as a character. So, for his own sake, he was offed, lest he undergo radical changes which would disappoint 90% of the Helmites. In other words, Helm was too complex for the new system.
well okay maybe it didnt really hgappen this way, but they said the same about Sehanine Moonbow, Eilistraee, vhaerun , may not be on law of them, but it...
In the cases of Eili and Vhaeraun, it was because they wanted to have the drow solely under Lolth, just like they wanted dwarves solely under Moradin and Fey solely under Corellon. Eili and Vhaeraun are too tied to the Drow, so they couldn't just become raceless deities like the other demihuman gods. Both of their doctrines were specifically aimed at the Drow, moreso than Arvoreen's creed was aimed at Halflings or Erevan's was for Elves (in the eyes of the designers, mind you). Of course, why they couldn't become Exarchs under Corellon/Ghaunadaur beats me, but I'm just going by what we've been told.
welll anyway, I veared off from Canon on this, left Helm alive and have him dating Siamorphe
+1
and being that I like a few many others have been around for a while and know that Garl is the chief gnome god, and rumor stats he is ptortection now, I dont see any of my non gnomish chars praying to him for protection
Bing bing bing. I expect that despite this whole "most gods now favor no one race" tripe, Garl's church is still 98% gnomes. As is Berronar's and dwarves, Solonor's and elves, etc.
thats how the cookie crumbles isnt it.
they could of made it so that Helm would of accepted all alignments and made him the exception to it.
GArl sux
and I dont by that Yolanda is chauntea....
Eilistraee and Vhaerun are now arch fey in my realms
@sfdragon
Yes I agree with you that the alignment system proved difficult to have Helm. Seeing the official description (www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...):
"Unaligned
Just let me go about my business.
If you’re unaligned, you don’t actively seek to harm others or wish them ill. But you also don’t go out of your way to put yourself at risk without some hope for reward. You support law and order when doing so benefits you. You value your own freedom, without worrying too much about protecting the freedom of others.
A few unaligned people, and most unaligned deities, aren’t undecided about alignment. Rather, they’ve chosen not to choose, either because they see the benefits of both good and evil or because they see themselves as above the concerns of morality. The Raven Queen and her devotees fall into the latter camp, believing that moral choices are irrelevant to their mission since death comes to all creatures regardless of alignment."
It seems Unaligned now is que equivalent of Chaotic Neutral. Which is a pity, because the older system allowed more interesting options.
Edit:
And What about the Harpers now? I'm not sure what they are now. They will never take the side of evil so they are not unaligned. Anyone has recent info on them?
those who harp are now secretive once again, and no more info other than they oppose the city of shade
"Unaligned
Just let me go about my business.
It seems Unaligned now is que equivalent of Chaotic Neutral. Which is a pity, because the older system allowed more interesting options.
I disagree - I think the Unaligned is simply the old Neutral alignement. Not the True Neutral where you had to seek some way to perfectly balace Good to Evil and Law to Chaos, but just plain Neutral.
I've always seen Chaotic Neutral as ranging from whimsical to fully anarchistic. With Chaotic Neutral, you don't concern yourself with Good or Evil, and either consider yourself outside the bounds of Law or actively seeking to annihilate Order.
Chaotic Neutral might be almost looked at as the "hippie" alignment.
Neuroglyph
"I've always seen Chaotic Neutral as ranging from whimsical to fully anarchistic. With Chaotic Neutral, you don't concern yourself with Good or Evil, and either consider yourself outside the bounds of Law or actively seeking to annihilate Order. "
I consider it close to the old CN since it fits the kind of person that would be "opportunistic" and not concerning itself about good and evil, so you see the similarities yes? But that is just my reading and opinions anyway.
@sfdragon
Yes I read on the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide (I think) recently that they finished their operations some 100 years ago frm present year (1479?) probably by disgust with the new alignment system. xP There's just that cell you mentioned. Also Elminster was their supporter and since Mystra's death he has become reclusive and more solitary, unlikely to interfere on world affairs anymore. So I assume he kinda abandoned them.
Yes I read on the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide (I think) recently that they finished their operations some 100 years ago frm present year (1479?) probably by disgust with the new alignment system.
LOL yes! I love it!
I could definatly see that.
"What!? I cant be chaotic good anymore? Screw it man, i quit!"
Chaotic Neutral might be almost looked at as the "hippie" alignment.
Except hippies are generally fixated on peace, love, and treasuring the world, which CN individuals, by and large, do not. Take a look at the CN deities: Tempus, Garagos, Shevarash, Uthgar... These guys embody CN, and they're not in the same ballpark as hippies.
Charles Manson and the Manson Family were/are Hippies...
Charles Manson and the Manson Family were/are Hippies...
And they would be Chaotic Evil in D&D terms.
Plus, I've heard quite a few of them became born-again Christians and show sorrow for what they did. Not that it's necessarily genuine, but I'm not sure they're still Hippies nowadays...
But this is getting off-topic. So to return to the course: Helm, like any decent LN god, detests the Hippie lifestyle, and believes it should be eradicated. Let us champion the Watcher's noble cause!
Why Oh Why I wasn't around to voice my discontent for the new alignment system when it was being changed? Not that I could have changed their decision but at least more noise on their ears would have been made. Have you guys seen their official explanations as to why they changed it? Not very convincing:
"As we saw it, several issues plagued D&D alignment, including:
- A character’s alignment, chosen at character creation, can become a straight-jacket on that character’s actions. Consider the paladin we’ve all seen in play, “I had to attack the rogue, I’m lawful good,” or the rogue, “I’m chaotic good! That means sometimes I push you off the bridge; come on, don’t get mad!” or some similar sentiment when presented with a role-playing choice. For this reason, many characters stuck with neutral: a nebulous self-serving alignment (as was then defined), a “me first” mentality that didn’t necessarily promote party cohesion either.
- In 3rd Edition, choosing an alignment usually had the unfortunate mechanical repercussion of making the aligned player vulnerable to an opposing aligned attack of a foe. It’s not really ideal that being good made you more vulnerable to demonic attacks, for instance. Another reason some players stuck with the neutral alignment of previous editions.
- The alignment system was tied to game cosmology, in ways that sometimes translated to physical effects that didn’t lead to fun gameplay.
So we came up with a new alignment system for 4th Edition, though one not completely unlike the previous version. It saves most of the old terms, if not their cosmological or gameplay significance. If any statement can sum up the new system, it is: “Alignment means making an effort.” --Michele Carter.
Thus was born the concept of unaligned. More importantly, the concept that unaligned is benign. Being unaligned is not the neutral alignment of previous editions. Someone who is unaligned is assumed to be an “easy-going” and sometimes even helpful person, especially when it’s easy to be helpful. Just like in real life, where it’s arguable that many people (cocooned in their routines and safe lives provided by a supporting civilization) are unaligned, your fantasy character can enjoy the same freedom from thinking too hard about morality but still be granted the benefit of doubt when they are judged.
Of course, many players will feel benign isn’t good enough, and so declare themselves good or lawful good. These characters are willing to put themselves in harm’s way to uphold a virtue or save an innocent’s life, even if there is the very real possibility they could lose their own life in the process. Such willingness for self-sacrifice is not benign; it is good.
--Bruce Cordell"
Source: www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4...
The discussions on this thread and the dissapearance of organizations and other beings of neutral alignments only proves that the previous alignment system offered much more variety and deeper psychological insight on the personality of each character you were creating. They just reduced it. By their own arguments the limitations are still there in the current system. It was really good to have a wider variety of choices and the very things they said were bad were actually good and fun: weapons with alignment oriented damage would help a lot when storming a place containing creatures of this alignment, being tied to a cosmology is actually good, we all identify ourselves with some god and like to fight fot it, etc.
they could of had the 4e helm have the morality domain
they could of had the $e helm have the morality domain
LOL yes! you used the capital 4! makes perfect sense to me $$$
Hehe all right change it just for the sake of saying "we have new features, here buy it". True. =/
Hmmmm... *strokes chin in thought*
Do I establish a dual-theocracy in Elturgard? An example for the world of Helmites and Tormish co-existing in the ultimate lawful society.
hmmmm, that would work
Uhhm do that and think about destroying the Abyss too, assuming that place is destroyable by attacking it's chaos heart. Than go for Hell, problem is Asmodeus is a god allowed by Ao so...
I'm building a long-term quest right now to my group that involves reviving Helm and that is going to require some Demon-Lord fighting in the future.
they got rid of him, becuase he was lawful and had access to the law domain.
and they said lets axe Helm becuase he is a god of law and just how many of them do we need?
Well, it's a bit more than that. Helm was Lawful Neutral, but it goes beyond just that. He was perhaps the most morally ambiguous deity in the Realms, but this ambiguity was combined with an unflinching sense of duty and resolution. Those things didn't fit in with the Unaligned alignment, and making Helm Good or Evil would destroy him as a character. So, for his own sake, he was offed, lest he undergo radical changes which would disappoint 90% of the Helmites. In other words, Helm was too complex for the new system.
IMO, Torm was also too complex for the new system, despite his 3.5 LG status. They ruined him by taking away what he was and supplanting Tyr's Justice "sphere" (or whatever that frek it's called now....) onto him instead.
And, I totally agree with you abt Helm. His "absolute" alignment isn't able to mesh with the crappy new alignment system of 4e.
well okay maybe it didnt really hgappen this way, but they said the same about Sehanine Moonbow, Eilistraee, vhaerun , may not be on law of them, but it...
In the cases of Eili and Vhaeraun, it was because they wanted to have the drow solely under Lolth, just like they wanted dwarves solely under Moradin and Fey solely under Corellon. Eili and Vhaeraun are too tied to the Drow, so they couldn't just become raceless deities like the other demihuman gods. Both of their doctrines were specifically aimed at the Drow, moreso than Arvoreen's creed was aimed at Halflings or Erevan's was for Elves (in the eyes of the designers, mind you). Of course, why they couldn't become Exarchs under Corellon/Ghaunadaur beats me, but I'm just going by what we've been told.
If I wanted all my dwarves under one deity, Moradin, I'd play in the Greyhawk world.
welll anyway, I veared off from Canon on this, left Helm alive and have him dating Siamorphe
+1
+2
and being that I like a few many others have been around for a while and know that Garl is the chief gnome god, and rumor stats he is ptortection now, I dont see any of my non gnomish chars praying to him for protection
Bing bing bing. I expect that despite this whole "most gods now favor no one race" tripe, Garl's church is still 98% gnomes. As is Berronar's and dwarves, Solonor's and elves, etc.
I don't see my cleric of Torm worshipping the "new" Torm as he's not the same god she served under in the 3.5 system. She was all about the Duty and Abolishing of Evil that Torm isn't all about now. Just Justice.
Charles Manson and the Manson Family were/are Hippies...
And they would be Chaotic Evil in D&D terms.Plus, I've heard quite a few of them became born-again Christians and show sorrow for what they did. Not that it's necessarily genuine, but I'm not sure they're still Hippies nowadays...
But this is getting off-topic. So to return to the course: Helm, like any decent LN god, detests the Hippie lifestyle, and believes it should be eradicated. Let us champion the Watcher's noble cause!
LOL
I figure that Helm would be a bit "too stiff" to even DREAM of being a hippie.... it'd be totally inconcievable for him to do so.
LOL
I figure that Helm would be a bit "too stiff" to even DREAM of being a hippie.... it'd be totally inconcievable for him to do so.
Plus, Helm and his followers like to bathe. And Hippies are vulnerable to soap and water, much like a troll fears acid and flame.
Gee, I kinda wish instead of in addition to () the whole Maztica thing, they just had the Helmites go on a beatdown in... gods, where do Realms Hippies congregate?... Luiren, that's it. Yeah, that'd work.
you know what, I'm not saying it
you know what, I'm not saying it
Now you have to say it. Come on. Helm is waiting for your offering.
well its not a helmite deal, but by Yondallas bossom I'm not going to say the nekid halfling girl comment......
*ahem*
May I bring everyone's attention to the Hands of the Triad group, recently created by sfdragon? It's a union of all those who adore the deities of the House of the Triad, and reject certain 4E blunders which have resulted in the deaths of two brilliant deities. Join now! You know it is your destiny.
*ahem*
May I bring everyone's attention to the Hands of the Triad group, recently created by sfdragon? It's a union of all those who adore the deities of the House of the Triad, and reject certain 4E blunders which have resulted in the deaths of two brilliant deities. Join now! You know it is your destiny.
Joined in the name of Torm.
Wait... Manshoon actively recruiting for the Triad?! Which clone are you, sirrah!? And what schemes are you planning behind that mask this time around?!
No tricks. I'm a loyal follower of the Watcher. And I'm not just a clone; I am Manshoon complete.
Wait... Manshoon actively recruiting for the Triad?! Which clone are you, sirrah!? And what schemes are you planning behind that mask this time around?!
No tricks. I'm a loyal follower of the Watcher. And I'm not just a clone; I am Manshoon complete.
B-but... *sputter* You were lawful evil at least until 1370. I'm so disappointed!
I still am.... overall (or overall I'm just plain Evil, going by new un-fun alignment philosophies). But I'm much more... varied than I was before my enlightenment. (Plus, Helm accepted LE faithful in the past).
WAIT A SECOND! Helm's dead!
*waves hand in a dismissive manner* Don't be swayed by the lies of Cyric and Chris Perkins. Helm is alive and well.
This better be a plot to take them down... in a "Nobody expects the Tethyrian branch of the Zhentarim!" sort of maneuver, or I'mma un-mask you!
Well, as I said, I'm a big Helmite. I don't want to see him bite the bullet.
Amaunator, on the other hand, has no special standing. His followers can go fly kites for all I care. Hell, I might just lead the liberal ones off a cliff and into the fangs of sea serpents, and persuade the conservative ones (the Lathanderite-sect ones) to reconsider just who their god is.
SHAR is Helms successor.
SHAR is Helms successor.
Shar would take that as blasphemy
SHAR is a ****.
I agree.
So you are saying Hoar is Shar? Interesting. I want to see what happens when the resident Sharrans see that...
"Run to the Hills, run for your life. Run to the hills, run for your life."
Better you than me, Sharrans can be really nasty...
So you are saying Hoar is Shar? Interesting. I want to see what happens when the resident Sharrans see that...
"Run to the Hills, run for your life. Run to the hills, run for your life."
Better you than me, Sharrans can be really nasty...
Twisting my words so as to cause trouble? Well, there's no doubt about it. You're still in Cyric's clutches, perhaps willingly. And your precious little Iron Maiden reference won't save you; the Sharrans aren't fooled by your Cyricist lies.
+1 for knowing it was Iron Maiden.
As for Cyric, I now believe he is an Ascended Sun Elf in disquise. Named Nai Calus...
As for Cyric, I now believe he is an Ascended Sun Elf in disquise. Named Nai Calus...
I can't wait to see what becomes of this. Nai, where are you?
Just stirring the stuff. If you know what I mean. I am feeling pretty manic right now. I think I need to take my meds...
+1 for knowing it was Iron Maiden.
As for Cyric, I now believe he is an Ascended Sun Elf in disquise. Named Nai Calus...
+1 for using Iron Maiden!
And not just any Iron Maiden but Dickinson Maiden
Rock on! 
SHAR is a ****.
I agree.
I agree. And QFT.
May Helm beat the poodoo out of shar's stupid little butt.
Alright, Boards Heroes, whom shall the Watcher strike down next? Shar? Cyric? Bane? Zehir (the interloping cur)?
....... Chris Perkins?
Alright, Boards Heroes, whom shall the Watcher strike down next? Shar? Cyric? Bane? Zehir (the interloping cur)?
....... Chris Perkins?
I say Zehir, I see no point for him. I have no plans at all with Zehir, I dont see anybody picking him as their Patron Deity. I made Chris Perkins a NPC in my game, and Im not ready to kill him off just yet. BWAHAHAHAHAHA!
Alright, Boards Heroes, whom shall the Watcher strike down next? Shar? Cyric? Bane? Zehir (the interloping cur)?
All of the above?
....... Chris Perkins?
Who?
Alright, Boards Heroes, whom shall the Watcher strike down next? Shar? Cyric? Bane? Zehir (the interloping cur)?
All of the above?
....... Chris Perkins?Who?
Chris Perkins is the Mastermind of 4e Realms, the death of Mystra, Azuth, Tyr, Helm, and others can all be laid at his feet, Chris Perkins has blood on his hands I tell you!!!!
Alright, Boards Heroes, whom shall the Watcher strike down next? Shar? Cyric? Bane? Zehir (the interloping cur)?
All of the above?
....... Chris Perkins?Who?
Chris Perkins is the Mastermind of 4e Realms, the death of Mystra, Azuth, Tyr, Helm, and others can all be laid at his feet, Chris Perkins had blood on his hands I tell you!!!!
The Ghost of Helm can have "words" with him then.
Man's a freakin' GODKILLER.
*chortle*
yes yes he is.
and the worst thing is, Eberron didnt suffer as badly.
and DS wont even be shoe horned into the 4e cosmology.....
personally, DS shoehorned 4e ruleset.....
I blame CP only cause he is in charge of everything DnD......
Thants why I am looking forward to the Dark Sun Setting. Chris Perkins isn't so bad. You should read Brian M. Thomsen RIP(It was his Swan Song) short story in Gamer Fantastic. They forgot Whose Realm this really is!
yeah we could.... but then what would we do if we cant pass around the blame for the current state of affairs......
sides Richard" awesome" Baker is also doing Dark Sun
sides Richard" awesome" Baker is also doing Dark Sun
And I can't wait to see what he has to offer. Though apparently, there won't be a DS Player's Guide, but a Creature Catalog, if I read the WOTC site correctly. I don't know how to feel about that.
But it matters not, for Dark Sun has one glaring flaw: its lack of Helm!
yes thats true....
after all; eternal vigilance...
Well you guys could always shoehorn him into DS...
Well you guys could always shoehorn him into DS...
And Tyr, and Cyric too, after all he is known as the Dark Sun.
Doesnt he look very Dark Sunish in this pic? -
Indeed he does. And I'm still contemplating how useful DS is to me. Laerakond could do with a touch more brutality. And who will be there to help the poor, soon-to-be-not-godless Abeirans, as they struggle to survive and maintain civilization? Helm!
I will definatly be getting Dark Sun. I had a bunch of the orginal stuff. Oddly enough, ive never actually played in Dark Sun or ran any games there, I just incorporated what I liked from it into my own world. It might be a good sourcebook for Abeir, a world with no gods and ruled by Dragons and Primordials, sounds very Dark Sunish.
Helm for President, 2012 (he is my favorite fantasy deity)-
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MLp7YNTznE
The FR without Helm is like this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MLp7YNTznE
OMG everyone is over the top linking Ozzy.
As punishment for making me click Ozzy for the 14th time, I give you this:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KANI2dpXLw
Everyone? Just sfdragon, for the record I posted Dee Snider!
and really the punishment should fit the crime! You went a little overboard there! My ears are still bleeding! Still it had the Muppets in it, so it could of been much much worse, and at least it wasnt dancing fruit!
www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPKrJQXf7ec
muhahahahahahaha
www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_XOVh-cDtk
Rest In Peace.
So what domains would a follower of Helm have accsess to?
Justice & War? Maybe Knowledge?
BTW Animal is my favorite Muppet EVAR!!!!111!!11!11111!!!!! Great link...
It's all about Torm now...I may just have to become a Tormite just to annoy you *****.
Delta is now a Torminte, og gods, how annoying......
rolls d20... you fail and that is your justice.....
got nothing against Torm the True.
I think I will go back to Mask!
No, I do not recognize him as an aspect of that tramp Shar...
Maybe, Talos who is not Gruumsh in my Realms, or is he?
and Shar is a 2 bit Trampy arsed coinlass
Dark Sun is going to rule...
Helm for President, 2012 (he is my favorite fantasy deity)-
Who would be his running mate?
Protection?!?!?! Protection from what, Realmsian STD's!?!?!?
It's all about Torm now...I may just have to become a Tormite just to annoy you *****.
Torm as in the "I hatez evil" Torm? Or the "I'm the new god of justice" Torm?
and so it has become.
Delta is now a Torminte, og gods, how annoying......
rolls d20... you fail and that is your justice.....
got nothing against Torm the True.
YAY! Another Torm worshiper!!!! :cheers::
Nah, I am too chaotic, for all of that stuffy fuddy duddy lawfulness...
I think I will go back to Mask!
No, I do not recognize him as an aspect of that tramp Shar...
Maybe, Talos who is not Gruumsh in my Realms, or is he?
The one character I had who was a Tormite cleric was NG cuz it was inbetween her lawful tudes mixing with her sometimes chaotic tudes.
and you probably thought I was going to say Hoar didn't you? Although I think there's a good argument for him too.
(Ye gods, this thread is still here?)
But seriously, just ascribe to the Heresy of the Threefold God, and you're all good. Under that logic, Helm isn't even dead. Shadowbane even prays to Helm once in Downshadow.
(Shameless plug level +2!)
Cheers
P.S. Arvoreen is a great suggestion.
Erik and his shameless plugs.....
but his shameless plugs are good, never know what may spill out in them.....
its not like I'd state that Fox at Twilight was in waterdeep eating ice cream while nude......
Erik and his shameless plugs.....
but his shameless plugs are good, never know what may spill out in them.....
its not like I'd state that Fox at Twilight was in waterdeep eating ice cream while nude......
Mmmm..hmmm....
Yep. He does put some good tidbits in those plugs.
Edit: Post #200!
Praise Helm
nobody cogradulated me when I hit 2500 posts..... but then I didnt mention it either.
Praise Helm
Im waiting until you hit the big 3-0-0-0
Helm will rise again
I'd go flame the erbersux boards anyway I dont liek ebersux
Well hells yeah man lets do it! I was just sayin that cause on of em came in here and dissed "our" Gnomes. I actualy dont mind Eberron, they have some neat ideas, but im not going to let them Eberwrongians dis our beloved Gnomes!
nobody cogradulated me when I hit 2500 posts..... but then I didnt mention it either.
Praise Helm
Aw, here you go sweetie!
I want one! I need to redouble my efforts!
Anyone can help?
take the virtuos paladin build in the divine power
do paladins get domains?? I didnt think they did.
They do in 4e. Domains are for any Divine class.
do paladins get domains?? I didnt think they did.
They do in 4e. Domains are for any Divine class.
shows how well I read the PHB doesnt it.
well to answer the question then, Helm was the god of guardians.
the protection domain would work....
but not Helm, I could be wrong there though.
Protection and skill assuming we have im as a god, and not an exarch
Hi guys! I am a great fan of Helm and I was very disappointed when i discovered that Helm died in 4E. Talking about portfolios and domains, i am developing a paladin devoted to Torm but i want him to look more like a Helmite so...what domain feats should he take among those of Torm? I thought that among Civilization, Justice and Protection, the latter one is the best choice but actually it looks more like domain for "healers" than for "guardians"...
Some people say that Helm "jumped the shark" (so to speak) in the Time of Troubles when he killed Mystra's avatar. As the only one to have retained his powers, he had no reason as a good deity to have raised a fully-god-powered sword against the relatively powerless avatar. To do so would have been an evil act, imo. Authors and designers really took him downhill fast from there. But then they pretty much made all the gods painfully stupid at that point.
That said, talk with your DM. Maybe the whole thing didn't happen in his or her FR world, and you can be a paladin of the original Helm, the god of guardians and protectors, as he was originally intended to be.
Or if it did happen, you could add a side of remorsefulness to Helm. Perhaps he did not know that Mystra would die, and a whole new thread of "think before you strike" could be woven into his theology.
Or if Helm is dead and you're following 4E Realms, Torm could be the way to go. Torm apparently has a strong line of "making up for the failures of past goodly deities" and acting positively to fulfill the desires of good (dead) deities for whom he has taken up portfolios. Torm could be presented as the most thoughtful good deity of the modern age, a protector and guardian like Helm but with an added urgency to always "look before you strike" against a possible enemy. With Cyric spreading lies, spinning illusions, and engendering chaos at every opportunity, it would make a certain sort of sense (even though Cyric is really an awful and rather hackneyed deity, imo). But it's a start.
Some people say that Helm "jumped the shark" (so to speak) in the Time of Troubles when he killed Mystra's avatar. As the only one to have retained his powers, he had no reason as a good deity to have raised a fully-god-powered sword against the relatively powerless avatar.
To do so would have been an evil act, imo.
Helm is LN, not LG. He embodies duty and loyalty, not compassion and mercy. Ao charged him with making sure that no one try to return to the Divine Realms without the Tablets, and to use force if necessary. His decision to eliminate Mystra was in accordance with Ao's directions. The Chosen of Mystra (a couple of them) later suggested Helm was torn between his duty to Ao and his loyalty to Mystra as her supposed lover, and that his nature won out over his personal feelings. That still sticks to LN in my mind. I know it's your opinion; I'm just sayin'.
Authors and designers really took him downhill fast from there. But then they pretty much made all the gods painfully stupid at that point.
Agreed. Helm really became everyone's favorite target amongst the gods. Following up this fiasco, we saw Helm get schooled by a two-bit dead thief, attempt to establish a presence on the Moonshaes by eradicating the Earthmother's opposition, and bless a vicious subjugation of the Mazticans. That's when the authors started to forget the distinction between LN and LE.
That said, talk with your DM. Maybe the whole thing didn't happen in his or her FR world, and you can be a paladin of the original Helm, the god of guardians and protectors, as he was originally intended to be.
Or if it did happen, you could add a side of remorsefulness to Helm. Perhaps he did not know that Mystra would die, and a whole new thread of "think before you strike" could be woven into his theology.
Or if Helm is dead and you're following 4E Realms, Torm could be the way to go. Torm apparently has a strong line of "making up for the failures of past goodly deities" and acting positively to fulfill the desires of good (dead) deities for whom he has taken up portfolios. Torm could be presented as the most thoughtful good deity of the modern age, a protector and guardian like Helm but with an added urgency to always "look before you strike" against a possible enemy. With Cyric spreading lies, spinning illusions, and engendering chaos at every opportunity, it would make a certain sort of sense (even though Cyric is really an awful and rather hackneyed deity, imo). But it's a start.
All good ideas. Additionally, I would suggest looking into the Threefold God concept described in Erik Scott de Bie's Downshadow. It might be a viable option for you, teo89.
Helm is LN, not LG. He embodies duty and loyalty, not compassion and mercy. Ao charged him with making sure that no one try to return to the Divine Realms without the Tablets, and to use force if necessary. His decision to eliminate Mystra was in accordance with Ao's directions. The Chosen of Mystra (a couple of them) later suggested Helm was torn between his duty to Ao and his loyalty to Mystra as her supposed lover, and that his nature won out over his personal feelings. That still sticks to LN in my mind. I know it's your opinion; I'm just sayin'.
True that. In my FR world, ToT didn't happen as in the books, and Helm leans toward good rather than pure neutrality (for complex reasons that aren't really relevant to canon). So that's my mistake, really.
But I will say, I do think his raising a sword against Mystra's avatar was an evil act rather than one simply of duty. As the "watcher" my thought would be that he would only apply necessary force. Still in possession of his full godly powers at the time, he could have simply blocked her way or pushed her back. But he struck down a relatively powerless (i.e. non-deity) opponent. Definitely just my opinion, but it seems remarkably short sighted and certainly overkill, and qualifies as an evil act in my book. But again, as I said, after ToT all of the novel-featured deities really took a hit in intelligence. They were presented as incredibly myopic, with insight and vision blinded only to their own portfolios, and not as powerful beings with godly intelligence and presence.
Torm apparently has a strong line of "making up for the failures of past goodly deities" and acting positively to fulfill the desires of good (dead) deities for whom he has taken up portfolios. Torm could be presented as the most thoughtful good deity of the modern age, a protector and guardian like Helm but with an added urgency to always "look before you strike" against a possible enemy.
This is also how I portray Torm. As for Helm I've always viewed him as being a complete tool and his spat with Tyr is in reality where both of those deities jumped the shark. Killing Mystra wasn't very evil, from a LN point of view if that was the punishment for the transgression when the perpetrator had been clearly warned, then that was what he would do.
I'm still convinced the ToT gave all the realms deities some form of incurable stupid though.
that might be why the players at Ed's table say the ToT never happened.
Sounds like they are very sensible. Does that mean that in Eds games he still has Myrkul, Bhaal and other gods from the time still present?
that might be why the players at Ed's table say the ToT never happened.
Sounds like they are very sensible. Does that mean that in Eds games he still has Myrkul, Bhaal and other gods from the time still present?
that you'd have to ask him at candlekeep or at loremaster.
I could give an assuming answer, but then I remembered the first 3 letters of the word
Thanks a lot for the answers! Do you think that in 4E Helm would be Neutral or Legal Good?
It could go either way. Although Unaligned seems the obvious choice, Helm demands a great deal of service and sacrifice, which the average Unaligned character doesn't seem prone to do without goading or enticement. On the other hand, Helm is a morally complex/ambiguous deity, whose tenets haven't always fallen within the LG identity.
If you do decide to make him LG, you could use his ties to Torm as a reason for his change: over the past century, Helm, under the direction of Torm, changed his outlook and came to promote good and virtue over order and an unwavering sense of obedience, or something along those lines.
Thanks a lot for the answers! Do you think that in 4E Helm would be Neutral or Legal Good?
It could go either way. Although Unaligned seems the obvious choice, Helm demands a great deal of service and sacrifice, which the average Unaligned character doesn't seem prone to do without goading or enticement. On the other hand, Helm is a morally complex/ambiguous deity, whose tenets haven't always fallen within the LG identity.
If you do decide to make him LG, you could use his ties to Torm as a reason for his change: over the past century, Helm, under the direction of Torm, changed his outlook and came to promote good and virtue over order and an unwavering sense of obedience, or something along those lines.
Yeah i completely agree. thanks for the suggestion! I think i will go for LG according to Torm's influence.