Help me understand this whole returned Abeir concept - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Help me understand this whole returned Abeir concept

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
zagora_01
Aug 08, 2008 9:14:27 I'm a big fan of forgotton realms but I never really understood the whole Abier-toril separation. Can someone explain the what happened with this new concept?
#2
merrikcale
Aug 08, 2008 9:18:57 You best wait for the book. In essence, abeir is a world that has again come close to toril and the two have combined. The prupose for this is essentially to allow designers to publish new material without having to worry about previous lore and to make sure the Realms get core concepts such as the dragonborn
#3
barthalas
Aug 08, 2008 9:33:38
You best wait for the book. In essence, abeir is a world that has again come close to toril and the two have combined. The prupose for this is essentially to allow designers to publish new material without having to worry about previous lore and to make sure the Realms get core concepts such as the dragonborn

I thought the deal was that Abeir and Toril where once one world in the past but some event caused them to split. This split also reached back in time and made it that way from the "beginning". Now that has been undone and parts of the two have merged back together. At least that's a very rough outline of how I understand it.
#4
colman
Aug 08, 2008 9:48:27 That sounds about right: the Gontal article and the Eminence of Avraunt are the two previews we have of Abeir. I think we're really waiting for the book for more detail than that.

Have you seen the Abeir FAQ?
#5
merrikcale
Aug 08, 2008 10:06:43
I thought the deal was that Abeir and Toril where once one world in the past but some event caused them to split. This split also reached back in time and made it that way from the "beginning". Now that has been undone and parts of the two have merged back together. At least that's a very rough outline of how I understand it.

Yeah. Thats my understanding. I was probably too brief by just saying they have come together again
#6
lord_karsus
Aug 08, 2008 10:51:08 -'Abeir' is some kind of continent/landmass/moon/planet/demiplane/plane that, in the past, somehow "latched" on to 'Toril', joining the two as 'Abeir-Toril'. The some of the denizens of 'Abeir', Aberrations, including the dreaded 'Aboleth Soverignty',attempted to colonize 'Toril' during this time. At some point, around -31,000 DR, a group of deities pooled together and "flung" 'Abeir' away. What exactly this entails, we don't know yet.

Concerning the Spellplague, the continent of Maztica was teleported away, and switched places with a landmass on 'Abeir'. Now, Maztica is in 'Abeir', and a landmass that was on 'Abeir' is where Maztica once was. Other plots of land that were on Faerûn, and presumably, plots of land that were on Osse, Anchorome, Kara-Tur and Zakhara, have also swapped places with landmasses on 'Abeir'.

-Originally, 'Abeir' was tacked on to 'Toril' to make Abeir-Toril the first entry in the Cyclopedia of the Realms. It means 'Cradle of Life' in a long forgotten language. This has since been retconned to include the story above.
#7
barthalas
Aug 08, 2008 11:22:54
-'Abeir' is some kind of continent/landmass/moon/planet/demiplane/plane that, in the past, somehow "latched" on to 'Toril', joining the two as 'Abeir-Toril'. The some of the denizens of 'Abeir', Aberrations, including the dreaded 'Aboleth Soverignty',attempted to colonize 'Toril' during this time. At some point, around -31,000 DR, a group of deities pooled together and "flung" 'Abeir' away. What exactly this entails, we don't know yet.

Not saying I doubt this (though it is different from my understanding), but can you list your sources for this? Specifically the part about Abeir "latching on" to Toril and the part about the gods pooling together to fling it away.

Thanks...
#8
lord_karsus
Aug 08, 2008 11:42:11 -Stardeep and AGHotR.
#9
barthalas
Aug 08, 2008 11:55:34
-Stardeep and AGHotR.

I've read Stardeep and looked through most of the AGFotR and while I did follow the part about the Aboleth Soverignty in Stardeep, I don't remember specific mentioning of Abeir "coming" to Toril and latching on.

I don't have my AGHotR here with me so I'll check later. I assume you are talking about the entry around 31,000 and the Tearfall (sp?) let me know if you found other references.
#10
markustay63
Aug 08, 2008 12:21:41 In the beginning, there was the one world - Abeirtoril.

The primordials ruled this land, but the gods - the next generation of powers to come to be - wanted to rule as well, and tried to Usurp that power. The world was almost destroyed by their fighting, so the wise amongst them decided that the world should be split in twain.

They seperated the very large world into two smaller pieces, and the Primordials chose Abeir for themselves, and the gods took Toril.

Where Abeir has been all these thousands (millions?) of years is a mystery. Could it have been off in its own Crystal Sphere? Was it still in the same place in a seperate plane, over-lapping but cut-off from Toril? Perhaps it was in an identical ordit on the far side of the sun...

But wherever it was hiding, the death of Mystra and the collapse of the Weave forced these two worlds back together in a cataclysmic upheaval that caused many portions of both worlds to swap places with its twin's counterpart.

And that is the story of how the two worlds came to be.
#11
lord_karsus
Aug 08, 2008 12:39:17
I've read Stardeep and looked through most of the AGFotR and while I did follow the part about the Aboleth Soverignty in Stardeep, I don't remember specific mentioning of Abeir "coming" to Toril and latching on.

-This is what the relevant passage in Stardeep seems to be talking about. The timeline fits, and as I suggested in the FAQ thread, what are the odds that, in the past two separate alien words were merged with what we used to know as Abeir-Toril, now known just as Toril? Especially when Bruce Cordell, a designer of the FRCG, had both a say in what the new 'Abeir' was, and was author of the novel.
#12
barthalas
Aug 08, 2008 12:39:32
In the beginning, there was the one world - Abeirtoril.

The primordials ruled this land, but the gods - the next generation of powers to come to be - wanted to rule as well, and tried to Usurp that power. The world was almost destroyed by their fighting, so the wise amongst them decided that the world should be split in twain.

They seperated the very large world into two smaller pieces, and the Primordials chose Abeir for themselves, and the gods took Toril.

Where Abeir has been all these thousands (millions?) of years is a mystery. Could it have been off in its own Crystal Sphere? Was it still in the same place in a seperate plane, over-lapping but cut-off from Toril? Perhaps it was in an identical ordit on the far side of the sun...

But wherever it was hiding, the death of Mystra and the collapse of the Weave forced these two worlds back together in a cataclysmic upheaval that caused many portions of both worlds to swap places with its twin's counterpart.

And that is the story of how the two worlds came to be.

That's more how I understand it and after re-reading the 31,000 DR entry in the GHotR, that seems like its the case (Abeir-Toril was one world at the start), as opposed to there being a world called Toril and one called Abeir "latching" on to it.
#13
markustay63
Aug 08, 2008 12:43:33 BRJ has confirmed that that the primordials left with Abeir, and the Gods took Toril.

I just put it into story format. ;)
#14
barthalas
Aug 08, 2008 12:49:07
-This is what the relevant passage in Stardeep seems to be talking about. The timeline fits, and as I suggested in the FAQ thread, what are the odds that, in the past two separate alien words were merged with what we used to know as Abeir-Toril, now known just as Toril? Especially when Bruce Cordell, a designer of the FRCG, had both a say in what the new 'Abeir' was, and was author of the novel.

I remember that passage but I got the sense from that that they weren't talking about the A/S being from Abeir but from the Far Realms. Couldn't it be just as likely that while Toril was able to resist the A/S from the Far Realm, Abeir was not, and when Abeir and Toril "joined" again the A/S came along for the ride. Both are speculation, and both seem to work. Only difference is the latter doesn't have two sources contradicting each other.

Or it could just be another instance of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing when the two passages got written by WotC staff. Sigh...

Just a thought.
#15
barthalas
Aug 08, 2008 12:49:46
BRJ has confirmed that that the primordials left with Abeir, and the Gods took Toril.

I just put it into story format. ;)

BRJ?
#16
rinonalyrna_fathomlin
Aug 08, 2008 14:33:34
BRJ?

Brian R. James. Realms designer.
#17
barthalas
Aug 08, 2008 14:46:50
Brian R. James. Realms designer.

Got it. I know who he is, just wasn't familiar with the abbreviation.
#18
lord_karsus
Aug 14, 2008 21:57:55 -Well, we now know exactly what 'Abeir' is.
#19
merrikcale
Aug 14, 2008 21:59:56 right, its "Rieba" spelled backwards
#20
lord_karsus
Aug 14, 2008 22:03:48 -Among other things, yes.
#21
merrikcale
Aug 14, 2008 22:06:41 I think my statement pretty much says it all
#22
lord_karsus
Aug 15, 2008 23:07:19 -I updated the 'Abeir FAQ' as well. Though, with the FRCG now out, it's usefulness is going to diminish a great deal.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 zagora_01 Aug 08, 2008 9:14:27	I'm a big fan of forgotton realms but I never really understood the whole Abier-toril separation. Can someone explain the what happened with this new concept?
#2 merrikcale Aug 08, 2008 9:18:57	You best wait for the book. In essence, abeir is a world that has again come close to toril and the two have combined. The prupose for this is essentially to allow designers to publish new material without having to worry about previous lore and to make sure the Realms get core concepts such as the dragonborn
#3 barthalas Aug 08, 2008 9:33:38	You best wait for the book. In essence, abeir is a world that has again come close to toril and the two have combined. The prupose for this is essentially to allow designers to publish new material without having to worry about previous lore and to make sure the Realms get core concepts such as the dragonborn I thought the deal was that Abeir and Toril where once one world in the past but some event caused them to split. This split also reached back in time and made it that way from the "beginning". Now that has been undone and parts of the two have merged back together. At least that's a very rough outline of how I understand it.
#4 colman Aug 08, 2008 9:48:27	That sounds about right: the Gontal article and the Eminence of Avraunt are the two previews we have of Abeir. I think we're really waiting for the book for more detail than that. Have you seen the Abeir FAQ?
#5 merrikcale Aug 08, 2008 10:06:43	I thought the deal was that Abeir and Toril where once one world in the past but some event caused them to split. This split also reached back in time and made it that way from the "beginning". Now that has been undone and parts of the two have merged back together. At least that's a very rough outline of how I understand it. Yeah. Thats my understanding. I was probably too brief by just saying they have come together again
#6 lord_karsus Aug 08, 2008 10:51:08	-'Abeir' is some kind of continent/landmass/moon/planet/demiplane/plane that, in the past, somehow "latched" on to 'Toril', joining the two as 'Abeir-Toril'. The some of the denizens of 'Abeir', Aberrations, including the dreaded 'Aboleth Soverignty',attempted to colonize 'Toril' during this time. At some point, around -31,000 DR, a group of deities pooled together and "flung" 'Abeir' away. What exactly this entails, we don't know yet. Concerning the Spellplague, the continent of Maztica was teleported away, and switched places with a landmass on 'Abeir'. Now, Maztica is in 'Abeir', and a landmass that was on 'Abeir' is where Maztica once was. Other plots of land that were on Faerûn, and presumably, plots of land that were on Osse, Anchorome, Kara-Tur and Zakhara, have also swapped places with landmasses on 'Abeir'. -Originally, 'Abeir' was tacked on to 'Toril' to make Abeir-Toril the first entry in the Cyclopedia of the Realms. It means 'Cradle of Life' in a long forgotten language. This has since been retconned to include the story above.
#7 barthalas Aug 08, 2008 11:22:54	-'Abeir' is some kind of continent/landmass/moon/planet/demiplane/plane that, in the past, somehow "latched" on to 'Toril', joining the two as 'Abeir-Toril'. The some of the denizens of 'Abeir', Aberrations, including the dreaded 'Aboleth Soverignty',attempted to colonize 'Toril' during this time. At some point, around -31,000 DR, a group of deities pooled together and "flung" 'Abeir' away. What exactly this entails, we don't know yet. Not saying I doubt this (though it is different from my understanding), but can you list your sources for this? Specifically the part about Abeir "latching on" to Toril and the part about the gods pooling together to fling it away. Thanks...
#8 lord_karsus Aug 08, 2008 11:42:11	-Stardeep and AGHotR.
#9 barthalas Aug 08, 2008 11:55:34	-Stardeep and AGHotR. I've read Stardeep and looked through most of the AGFotR and while I did follow the part about the Aboleth Soverignty in Stardeep, I don't remember specific mentioning of Abeir "coming" to Toril and latching on. I don't have my AGHotR here with me so I'll check later. I assume you are talking about the entry around 31,000 and the Tearfall (sp?) let me know if you found other references.
#10 markustay63 Aug 08, 2008 12:21:41	In the beginning, there was the one world - Abeirtoril. The primordials ruled this land, but the gods - the next generation of powers to come to be - wanted to rule as well, and tried to Usurp that power. The world was almost destroyed by their fighting, so the wise amongst them decided that the world should be split in twain. They seperated the very large world into two smaller pieces, and the Primordials chose Abeir for themselves, and the gods took Toril. Where Abeir has been all these thousands (millions?) of years is a mystery. Could it have been off in its own Crystal Sphere? Was it still in the same place in a seperate plane, over-lapping but cut-off from Toril? Perhaps it was in an identical ordit on the far side of the sun... But wherever it was hiding, the death of Mystra and the collapse of the Weave forced these two worlds back together in a cataclysmic upheaval that caused many portions of both worlds to swap places with its twin's counterpart. And that is the story of how the two worlds came to be.
#11 lord_karsus Aug 08, 2008 12:39:17	I've read Stardeep and looked through most of the AGFotR and while I did follow the part about the Aboleth Soverignty in Stardeep, I don't remember specific mentioning of Abeir "coming" to Toril and latching on. -This is what the relevant passage in Stardeep seems to be talking about. The timeline fits, and as I suggested in the FAQ thread, what are the odds that, in the past two separate alien words were merged with what we used to know as Abeir-Toril, now known just as Toril? Especially when Bruce Cordell, a designer of the FRCG, had both a say in what the new 'Abeir' was, and was author of the novel.
#12 barthalas Aug 08, 2008 12:39:32	In the beginning, there was the one world - Abeirtoril. The primordials ruled this land, but the gods - the next generation of powers to come to be - wanted to rule as well, and tried to Usurp that power. The world was almost destroyed by their fighting, so the wise amongst them decided that the world should be split in twain. They seperated the very large world into two smaller pieces, and the Primordials chose Abeir for themselves, and the gods took Toril. Where Abeir has been all these thousands (millions?) of years is a mystery. Could it have been off in its own Crystal Sphere? Was it still in the same place in a seperate plane, over-lapping but cut-off from Toril? Perhaps it was in an identical ordit on the far side of the sun... But wherever it was hiding, the death of Mystra and the collapse of the Weave forced these two worlds back together in a cataclysmic upheaval that caused many portions of both worlds to swap places with its twin's counterpart. And that is the story of how the two worlds came to be. That's more how I understand it and after re-reading the 31,000 DR entry in the GHotR, that seems like its the case (Abeir-Toril was one world at the start), as opposed to there being a world called Toril and one called Abeir "latching" on to it.
#13 markustay63 Aug 08, 2008 12:43:33	BRJ has confirmed that that the primordials left with Abeir, and the Gods took Toril. I just put it into story format. ;)
#14 barthalas Aug 08, 2008 12:49:07	-This is what the relevant passage in Stardeep seems to be talking about. The timeline fits, and as I suggested in the FAQ thread, what are the odds that, in the past two separate alien words were merged with what we used to know as Abeir-Toril, now known just as Toril? Especially when Bruce Cordell, a designer of the FRCG, had both a say in what the new 'Abeir' was, and was author of the novel. I remember that passage but I got the sense from that that they weren't talking about the A/S being from Abeir but from the Far Realms. Couldn't it be just as likely that while Toril was able to resist the A/S from the Far Realm, Abeir was not, and when Abeir and Toril "joined" again the A/S came along for the ride. Both are speculation, and both seem to work. Only difference is the latter doesn't have two sources contradicting each other. Or it could just be another instance of the left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing when the two passages got written by WotC staff. Sigh... Just a thought.
#15 barthalas Aug 08, 2008 12:49:46	BRJ has confirmed that that the primordials left with Abeir, and the Gods took Toril. I just put it into story format. ;) BRJ?
#16 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Aug 08, 2008 14:33:34	BRJ? Brian R. James. Realms designer.
#17 barthalas Aug 08, 2008 14:46:50	Brian R. James. Realms designer. Got it. I know who he is, just wasn't familiar with the abbreviation.
#18 lord_karsus Aug 14, 2008 21:57:55	-Well, we now know exactly what 'Abeir' is.
#19 merrikcale Aug 14, 2008 21:59:56	right, its "Rieba" spelled backwards
#20 lord_karsus Aug 14, 2008 22:03:48	-Among other things, yes.
#21 merrikcale Aug 14, 2008 22:06:41	I think my statement pretty much says it all
#22 lord_karsus Aug 15, 2008 23:07:19	-I updated the 'Abeir FAQ' as well. Though, with the FRCG now out, it's usefulness is going to diminish a great deal.