Next, I am interested in the Forgotten Realms. It seems like a typical high-fantasy setting, but I know nigh-on nothing about it, and was wondering if you guys could point me in the right direction on somethings.
What would be the best place to start getting into learning it. I have the Icewind Dale trilogy, that I will read after I have read the Mallorean. Is that a good place to start, or should I read a different fiction book? Or maybe a D&D splat book of some sort?
I am very interested in high fantasy, like LOTR. I also like Eberron because of it's diversity and mystery. How is it comparable to settings such as Middle-Earth and Khorvaire?
A lot of the atmosphere I have got from glancing through the NWN games, Baldur's gate, and the first book of the first book (?) of Icewind Dale, and looking up the odd period of history within the Realms, is that I have found it to be very dark and depressing. Can you guys clarify if this is quite accurate? I mean, a lot of it seems dark, foreboding forests and swamp, with a bit of elven melancholy from what I have gathered in my mind...
What is the reasoning behind making the stories canon? Is it to give a backbone, a neutral reference to the fluff of the setting?
A big turn off is that limiting factor of the 'books as canon'. But am I right in thinking that because it is your game, you can decide whether or nor to actually adhere to the canon?
Sorry if there are a lot of questions, but I would like a High-Fantasy setting to play in for 4E other than my homebrew (mainly because I have not built it yet), and Eberron, while I think rocks, seems an acquired taste in some respects, whereas FR seems like your run-of-the-mill fantasy setting.
The first rule of running a game in the realms is that it's your world, and you can alter, add, or omit things as you see fit.
That said, when someone engages in out of game discussions about a certain place, person, time period, or event(s)--either for speculative purposes or to gather background for a campaign or adventure--then it is usually assumed that the discussion will mostly stick to interpreting what has been written and published in rulebooks, accessories, or novels (i.e. the so-called "canon"), while individual variations (such as how things are different in one person's campaign) usually carry a disclaimer to make people aware the difference.
Essentially, everything that is written encompasses the baseline standard of the shared world, within which individual DMs and gaming groups can alter or change as they see fit.
For example, you are not required to have an insane archmage named Halaster Blackcloak who lives/lived in the vast dungeon of Undermountain in your campaign. Alternatively, you can have such a person existing/once existed in your campaign, but completely change whatever you wish about him, or make him a "her" for that matter.
However, if you happen to ask for specific information about powerful archmages residing near Waterdeep, most people will give you canon information about one named Halaster, who survived the fall of the empire of Imaskar, who constructed the vast subterranean complex of Undermountain, confounded numerous adventurers seeking his death or his treasures, who was driven mad by the touch of Shar and forced to weave plots against the Chosen of Mystra, then cured of those curses by the touch of Mystra and quested to help save Elminster from entrapment in Hell, who then was later destroyed in some terrible magical catastrophe, and so on.
You are not required to read the novels and adventure modules in which all of the above took place, nor are you required to acknowledge any or all of the above events as having occurred, nor even acknowledge or allow the existence of Halaster at all. However in the general sense it is assumed that if one is playing a game in the Forgotten Realms that certain people and places exist or have existed, and specific events have occurred or will occur, unless otherwise noted by the DM at such a time when/if that information would become accessible/pertinent to the PCs.
What would be the best place to start getting into learning it. I have the Icewind Dale trilogy, that I will read after I have read the Mallorean. Is that a good place to start, or should I read a different fiction book? Or maybe a D&D splat book of some sort?
Well, it depends. Are you interested in learning about the Realms pre or post Spellplague (the Spellplague being the event which is used to bring the Realms over to 4E). If it's the latter, while I haven't read it, the novel 'Swordmage' would probably be a good place to start. It's the only novel so far which is set entirely in the 4E Realms. You can find more on the current Realms in THIS article. There's also the Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide out in August.
If you want to learn about the Pre-Spellplague Realms, then the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting would be a good place to start. You can also check out the Forgotten Realms Wiki.
August will let us know what to expect with the release of the new campaign guide.
So every time a new edition comes out, there is an event to convert the old to the new?
Sooo would the major timeline be structured thus: ?
Major event - Days of Thunder
1E - stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Karsus' Folly
2E - new set of stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Time of Troubles
3E - even more new stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Spellplague
4E - new stories like Swordmage, events, characters and stuff
So would I be right in assuming that these major events sort of reset the world, but allow time to continue flowing?
ok, thanks for the advice.
So every time a new edition comes out, there is an event to convert the old to the new?
Sooo would the major timeline be structured thus: ?
Major event - Days of Thunder
1E - stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Karsus' Folly
2E - new set of stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Time of Troubles
3E - even more new stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Spellplague
4E - new stories like Swordmage, events, characters and stuff
So would I be right in assuming that these major events sort of reset the world, but allow time to continue flowing?
I guess you can say that
But the point of having the novels being cannon is to make a "living breathing" world when stuff happpens.4E is 100 years later after the Weave and several/few(?) gods die and magic is reworked (4e magic). The Shades reform the kingdom of Nethril, many NPCs are missing or dead, and the gods are possibly "reworked" to fit a different comsmology. Most of the new books now fit around the new campaign. Old books and Lore can be used but are not needed.
The setting has bad guy NPCs and villains but "possibly" fewer good guy NPCs.
The 2E and 4E events were designed to fit in the new ruleset and magic system. Reading about the Avatar Trilody might give you a grasp of what happened during that time. Or google it maybe.
I guess you can say that
Well, I'm not taking the magic and wonder out of the setting, I'm just breaking it down logically, so it can be gauged so as to determine what is what.
You can do the same with any world, real or fictitious, I'm just trying to get my bearings - I am pretty sure I am not 'deadening' the world by doing this.
4E FR seems like it will be a place in dire need of heros. I think post Spellplague there is a fear of magic and people that use it. Not sure though.
August will let us know what to expect with the release of the new campaign guide.
What a piece of bullcrap, that is not FR, that's Dragonlance.
Well, I'm not taking the magic and wonder out of the setting, I'm just breaking it down logically, so it can be gauged so as to determine what is what.
Then don't bother with 4th edition since that's exactly what is doing to the setting. Lots of beloved gods where killed because a little group of whinning people didn't liked them. The lore is being dumbed-down so Novel Writers (who get paid to do it) don't have to read Realmslore because when they don't read we pick all their mistakes in the first read. The editon change event (Spellplague) is filled with so many errors, retcons and continuity problems that it's not even worth the effort.
Well, I'm not taking the magic and wonder out of the setting, I'm just breaking it down logically, so it can be gauged so as to determine what is what.
You can do the same with any world, real or fictitious, I'm just trying to get my bearings - I am pretty sure I am not 'deadening' the world by doing this.
Oh I agree, I just started reading FR novels recently myself....
To be honest the novel/canon thing was always a double edged sword with FR. If a player read more books than the DM the DM may feel odd that the player is using canon terminolgy and lore that the DM is not aware of. It is all up the guy running the game. If you say books are not canon then so be it. Luckily none of my players are novel readers and that is a blessing.
I agree that canon novels is a dble edge sword but that goes for any setting not just FR.
Now, that being said Is up to the DM what Is canon and what's not. I'll be damn DAMN
if a player tell me what's what in MY realms. This has never been the case though;)What a piece of bullcrap, that is not FR, that's Dragonlance.
Some one woke up in the wrong side of the bed ;).
And THAT might be the angle for 4E FR. like Rauric said, we have to wait for august
Some one woke up in the wrong side of the bed ;).
And THAT might be the angle for 4E FR. like Rauric said, we have to wait for august
I hate Dragonlance with a passion for their treatment of arcane magic. If FR starts doing the same then it can burn in hell for all I care (said while I listen to AC/DC - Highway to Hell).
A lot of the atmosphere I have got from glancing through the NWN games, Baldur's gate, and the first book of the first book (?) of Icewind Dale, and looking up the odd period of history within the Realms, is that I have found it to be very dark and depressing.
Wow. I'm honestly surprised that you got such an impression. The FR setting has darkness in it, yes, but the overall mood isn't supposed to be "dark and depressing". In fact, in my experience, most critics of the setting accuse it of being too light-hearted, and a place where good people are victorious too often.
Sorry if there are a lot of questions, but I would like a High-Fantasy setting to play in for 4E other than my homebrew (mainly because I have not built it yet), and Eberron, while I think rocks, seems an acquired taste in some respects, whereas FR seems like your run-of-the-mill fantasy setting.
Do you mean that in a good way or a bad way?
Sooo would the major timeline be structured thus: ?
Major event - Days of Thunder
1E - stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Karsus' Folly
2E - new set of stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Time of Troubles
3E - even more new stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Spellplague
4E - new stories like Swordmage, events, characters and stuff
Uh, no. The Time of Troubles was meant to usher in 2E for the FR. The 1E Realms was set only a few years before that time. No "Realms-shattering" event occured at the advent of 3E, but interesting things did happen (ie. the return of Shade, of Bane). The Spellplague is remaking the Realms for 4E, but on a scale that hasn't quite occured before. 1E through 3E FR occured from about 1356 DR-1375 DR; not a super-long span of years. 4E involves a major time jump to 1479 DR, about 100 years in the future.
The Days of Thunder and the Fall of Karsus are both set in ancient times meant to be looked back on (Days of Thunder refers not to an event at all, but to olden days tens of thousands of years ago--downright prehistoric times!). No "current official campaign" years were ever set back then.
A big turn off is that limiting factor of the 'books as canon'. But am I right in thinking that because it is your game, you can decide whether or nor to actually adhere to the canon?
As other have said, yes, absolutely.
Canon is a baseline for WotC. Those who use the setting at home need not worry about it.As for where to learn about the Realms? I'd do a search about that--numerous threads exist about that very topic.
ok, thanks for the advice.
So every time a new edition comes out, there is an event to convert the old to the new?
Sooo would the major timeline be structured thus: ?
Major event - Days of Thunder
1E - stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Karsus' Folly
2E - new set of stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Time of Troubles
3E - even more new stories, events, characters and stuff
Major event - Spellplague
4E - new stories like Swordmage, events, characters and stuff
So would I be right in assuming that these major events sort of reset the world, but allow time to continue flowing?
-Nope. The Forgotten Realms do not have a history of major catastrophes "resetting" the setting.
1e: The start of the Forgotten Realms as a D&D setting
2e: The Time of Troubles is used as a transition point
3e: No transition point
4e: Spellplague; 100 (+/-) year time jump
Do you mean that in a good way or a bad way?
Good way. For those who like fantasy, I suppose it is nice to have a 'home', one might say for immersing yourself in fantasy.
Yea, I realised the event-edition correlation shortly after I posted it. I decided to leave it so I could learn what happened within FR.
Yea, I realised the event-edition correlation shortly after I posted it. I decided to leave it so I could learn what happened within FR.
-Buy A Grand History of the Realms, and there you go.
Forgotten Realms-Wikipedia best overall source to materials old and new. Easy to catchup quick.
-The both the Forgotten Realms Wikipedia article, and the Forgotten Realms Wiki site are missing large swaths of information.
I don't even like the cover of the Campaign Guide...a real shame.
-The cover isn't Drizzt, if that's what you are worried about. That was a placeholder. The cover is of a Shade riding on some kind of Draconic creature, over a dark, foreboding castle. I don't personally like that either, but, I think it's better than Drizzt.
-Personally speaking, I'd rather have something abstract on the cover, rather than a specific scene.
-The cover isn't Drizzt, if that's what you are worried about. That was a placeholder. The cover is of a Shade riding on some kind of Draconic creature, over a dark, foreboding castle. I don't personally like that either, but, I think it's better than Drizzt.
-
I prefer the Drizzt cover myself
I prefer the Drizzt cover myself
Merrik, you know that "what goes up must come down" is not true. Satlites have gone into orbit and yet to come down.
Merrik, you know that "what goes up must come down" is not true. Satlites have gone into orbit and yet to come down.
thats what you think
thats what you think
It is not what I think. It is what is fact. If you can comprehend that a satilite has gone into a orbit yet to come down, does that not prove your concept faulty? I have proof of a flaw, and you tell me it's what "I think" as if it's a theory when I can clearly show facts.
I prefer the Drizzt cover myself
-It's nothing against Drizzt- though, I think that putting him on the cover isn't a good idea, as the setting is so much more than just Drizzt. I, personally, prefer something abstract on the cover, more than a specific scene. I mean, think about it for a second. You can choose one image to represent all of the Forgotten Realms on the cover. What do you pick to represent the Realms?
It is a great fantasy setting!
It is famouse enough to have novels and even games made after it.
It isn't famose enough for DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online) to take place in (Damn Eberron!).
It, in my view, is one of the only settings that is based off history enough to have the feudal system as a dominant system (in the Heartlands, that is. Don't believe me? Read FR Campaign setting, 3E.).
It isn't famose enough for DDO (Dungeons and Dragons Online) to take place in (Damn Eberron!).
-Some would count that a good thing. Apparently, that game was horrible. Most Eberron people don't recognize it's existence.
-Some would count that a good thing. Apparently, that game was horrible. Most Eberron people don't recognize it's existence.
I agree. I acctually played it! It sucked as you could not leave the city of Stormreach, without entering an instanced (private) zone.
I agree. I acctually played it! It sucked as you could not leave the city of Stormreach, without entering an instanced (private) zone.
-I've played about 1 hour of a MMORPG my entire life, so I don't know exactly what that means, but I'll take that as a bad thing. ;)
It is not what I think. It is what is fact. If you can comprehend that a satilite has gone into a orbit yet to come down, does that not prove your concept faulty? I have proof of a flaw, and you tell me it's what "I think" as if it's a theory when I can clearly show facts.
What is the relevance of this to the topic? Move elsewhere with your incoherence, please.
-I've played about 1 hour of a MMORPG my entire life, so I don't know exactly what that means, but I'll take that as a bad thing. ;)
It means that whenever you leave the city or do a quest, no one can see you and you cant see other people who aren't in your group. This is fine for most MMORPGs, but for every quest? DDO pretty much made evry quest one such private zone, and there was almost no plot line.
It means that whenever you leave the city or do a quest, no one can see you and you cant see other people who aren't in your group. This is fine for most MMORPG, but for every quest? DDO pretty much made evry quest one such private zone, and their was almost no plot line.
-Gotcha.
I mean, think about it for a second. You can choose one image to represent all of the Forgotten Realms on the cover. What do you pick to represent the Realms?
In 4e? A picture of a bunch of fans holding out money and Chris Perkins giving them all the finger.
In 4e? A picture of a bunch of fans holding out money and Chris Perkins giving them all the finger.
Interesting thought.
Most of the original art for FR does not contain the 'famous' NPCs. I didn't mind El and Drizzt on the cover of the GHotR, but it doesn't grab me the way the cover to the Waterdeep Boxset did.
Maybe a scene of Purple Dragon Knights defending a fallen War Wizard from a Netherese strike team, if you like Cormyr.
The Cult of the Dragon performing a Dracolich ritual.
A Zhent operative pointing out a Harper agent in a crowded market place.
The sprawl of an expanded post-Spellplague Baldur's Gate.
A simple scene of a group of adventurers opening a chest in shadowed ruins while bestial shapes wait in the background.
In 4e? A picture of a bunch of fans holding out money and Chris Perkins giving them all the finger.
What is iconic enough to be on the FRCS? That is a really hard question.
Most of the original art for FR does not contain the 'famous' NPCs. I didn't mind El and Drizzt on the cover of the GHotR, but it doesn't grab me the way the cover to the Waterdeep Boxset did.
Maybe a scene of Purple Dragon Knights defending a fallen War Wizard from a Netherese strike team, if you like Cormyr.
The Cult of the Dragon performing a Dracolich ritual.
A Zhent operative pointing out a Harper agent in a crowded market place.
The sprawl of an expanded post-Spellplague Baldur's Gate.
A simple scene of a group of adventurers opening a chest in shadowed ruins while bestial shapes wait in the background.
-All of those things are indicative of a specific area- That, Cormyr, Waterdeep, whatever- and not the entire setting, however. For something on the Campaign Setting guide, it should be all-encompassing.
Shades are unfortunately... at least of late they are. :\
-Not in...Chult...Tethyr...Amn...Calimshan...etc.
Amn has the whole Shadow Thief thing...
Shades/ShadowWhatever are the new sick and cool thing in the Realms that have been seriously done to death. Which was kinda my point there...
Shades/ShadowWhatever are the new sick and cool thing in the Realms that have been seriously done to death. Which was kinda my point there...
-Only in the places that have the "spotlight" continually shined on them, which kinda was my point there. These places don't constitute all of the Forgotten Realms.
-I realize you were being a little tongue and cheek there. ;)
.A simple scene of a group of adventurers opening a chest in shadowed ruins while bestial shapes wait in the background.
That acctually would of looked good on 4e Player's Handbook.
-Eh, I disagree. I still like the abstract better.
Your not the only one. Still, if they HAVE to but some non-generic picture on the cover, this one would be best for players handbook, much better than the one they have now.
Your not the only one. Still, if they HAVE to but some non-generic picture on the cover, this one would be best for players handbook, much better than the one they have now.
-From what I remember of it (a Dwarf-looking individual with a hammer, and something else in some kind of ruin), that, more or less, is the cover.
I think the dwarf was riding something.