Kiaransalee: She was a Lich Queen before she became a Goddess. Even though her followers have forgotten her and she has lost her divinity she is still a powerful Lich in her own right, possibly the most powerful spellcaster walking around Faerûn.
Masked Lady: I liked the short-lived change they made to Eilistraee and would love to see more of her. That being said, even though Lloth thinks she killed the Masked Lady how do you know the workings of someone whose portfolio includes being a rogue. Could she have hidden herself from Lloth? I think so.
Deep Duerra and Laduguer: Laduguer was always just a sad version of Moradin. Deep Duerra however was quite interesting to me at least. As the only (conscious) psionic deity around it is a shame to lose her. I plan on having her lose any kind of physical form
Talos: I can see him as Gruumsh, so I am keeping him as a separate entity, maybe hanging out in the Deep Wilds with Umberlee
Mystra: I see her divine spark inhabiting Elminster, the future God of Magic.
Azuth: Poor guy, I would find a way to keep him around, but I like Asmodeus being a God
Savras: I find it really hard to believe that Savras wouldn’t see his own demise. Faiths and Pantheons mentions that he seems unsurprised by Shar and that he spends a lot time unmasking the lies of Cyric. That being said Shar would have killed him or had him killed if he had just not been at Dwoemerheart so he Reinhabited the staff he was once bound to. I would personally put the staff on a certain ship bearing his name.
Deneir and Shaundakul: The God of Cartography and the God of Travel… they are definitely in Abeir exploring.
Dead Dwarf Gods: Look at the ones that died, they really had pointless, redundant portfolios. I plan on keeping Sharindlar around though. Taking her out is like saying Dwarves aren’t allowed to have fun gods.
I hope this thread remains what people are planning on doing and not what they find wrong with the changes. I understand why they got rid of a lot of the useless, redundant, boring Gods, but some I liked and I would love to see how others plan on keeping their favorites around, I am sure that everyone here has some interesting story to use for their games. (As a side note did anyone notice how badly a lot of female deities got the shaft, mainly in the demi-human pantheons)
Seriously though, I plan on building it into an ongoing campaign about the loss of some deities, and how they may be reborn or reconstituted. I also plan on bringing Auppenser back.
I want to dosomething with Auppenser too, I always liked Psionics. Last I heard his coffin was in Dweomerheart though. My thought was that its wards allowed it to survive the collapse of the plane and now it floats around the Astral Plane waiting to be opened.
Sleeping, not dead, so no coffin.
I want to dosomething with Auppenser too, I always liked Psionics. Last I heard his coffin was in Dweomerheart though. My thought was that its wards allowed it to survive the collapse of the plane and now it floats around the Astral Plane waiting to be opened.
He'll probably awake around the release of PhB 2 or PhB 3 (whenever they bring psionics back) in a DDI article.
He'll probably awake around the release of PhB 2 or PhB 3 (whenever they bring psionics back) in a DDI article.
Yeah, but if I wake him up, I get to be his new exarch, and I think that is how Naex gets to retire.
Yeah, but if I wake him up, I get to be his new exarch, and I think that is how Naex gets to retire.
Hey if they do bring him back that would be soo unfair...why does psionics get a god but not magic....
:evillaugh 18DELTA
Sleeping, not dead, so no coffin.
I always imagined him sleeping in a coffin-like structure... kind of like sleeping beauty, except crystal instead of glass.
Yeah, I'm also not going to 4e Realms.
I did have a way for Mystra to avoid her fate, but that became problematic when Eilistraee was murdered.
After Eilistraee died, any thought of trying to incorporate elements of 4e Realms into my own vision of the Realms died too.
-There should be no deities for Psionics. That a deity is "granting" Psionics just kind of makes it somewhat pointless.
The same could be said for a deity granting Good Harvests. I point to Dragonlance's Magic Deities. It's not so much they're granting magic as giving you a boost.
I'm just not switching to 4.0.
Maybe, just maybe, they'll become more simulationist in 5th, and I'll like that. The reality is that I hate this system. I took 3rd along with the rest of my team in the Open at Gencon, and I STILL hate this system.
It doesn't feel like Dungeons and Dragons.
It doesn't look like Dungeons and Dragons.
It doesn't play like Dungeons and Dragons. It plays completely differently. Characters are too powerful at low levels. In the final round, when I was playing an 11th level character and I was surrounded by competent players, I really felt like it was a walk in the park.
I keep looking for risk and danger, and if I can't find it in the Open, which is the deadliest set of encounters known to the game, there's a problem.
Quite simply, the game isn't lethal enough.
I LIKE it when first level characters are fragile and can get killed by a lucky hit from an orc. I LIKE it when my character has to think about ways to get across that pit. I LIKE being able to customize my skills and out of character abilities to match my concept without taking a huge hit in combat because of how feats work.
Stats should be ROLLED. That's the SPIRIT of the game. If you don't like that, you should be playing 4th edition, because point buy is pretty much hardwired into the system.
Hit points should be ROLLED. They change your tactics and how effective your character is. Sometimes they force you to fight smarter instead of harder. That's not a bad thing. That's a good thing.
I feel like I'm looking at cookie cutter characters every time I look at sheets. I'm not happy with it. No matter how many cool "Powers" and "Utility Powers' and fancy names they come up with, I feel the imagination has been sucked out of the game.
Where are the landscapes, the grace, the beauty, the possibility of art? Where is there room for a dungeon master?
Where are RANDOM TREASURE GENERATION TABLES? I despise treasure so obviously keyed to the player characters that the adventure stinks.
There's just too much win built into this game for the PCs.
-There should be no deities for Psionics. That a deity is "granting" Psionics just kind of makes it somewhat pointless.
He is not so much the granter of psionics as he is the first teacher. His other sphere is Balance, which the Realms need.
He is not so much the granter of psionics as he is the first teacher. His other sphere is Balance, which the Realms need.
-A "teacher" role, I like. A "proliferator of knowledge", I like. A source, I don't like.
Knowledge Prolif leads to Malthus.
There was a time when I'd have pressed that point, but right now, I'm just kind of waiting for the big population dieoff.
Mystra: Perhaps Elminster and the Simbul have a baby..a little baby with a divine future named....
Oh...My...Gawd...
Another reason to purge them both. IMO. (Opinions will vary, that's just my reaction to this one...especially since I can *easily* see the Devs doing just that. Or the "She Is In Elminster And Bursts Forth Like Athena From Zeus's Head" thing that someone else mentioned, and I really hope they don't go down that road).
Anyhow, the easiest answer for how to keep divinities in your Realms is not to remove them in the first place. Just fire the all-powerful /Ignore cannon at whatever references to their untimely demise exists, and if it affects some other change, re-rationalize it.
Admittedly hardest to do if the divinity you want to keep is Mystra herself, given that so much of the changes were rationalized as a result of her death. But I'm sure folks here can come up with new reasons for the changes you want to keep that are at least as good as the ones in the FRCG.
"The Draeden Did It", for example. Or "Ao had a hissy again and decided to inflict Spellplague on the world". One doesn't need "Mystra Died, Everyone Cried" as the reason for the Spellplague - to name just that example. (Before someone chimes in to say "yes, you do, that's how it's described!" - um, no, you don't. It's *one* way to rationalize the changes, but not the *only* possible rationalization for this or that event, if someone wants to change the reasons in their campaign so they can keep Mystra around, for example.)
IMO it's far easier to keep the divinities/characters/whatnot they remove than undo the landscape changes. {You've said that before - ED} I know I have, it remains true
Velsharoon: Is restored via an evil ritual.
Xvim: Is brought back by Bane just for the Hell of it.
Mask: Has been hiding this entire time.
Azuth: Explodes out of Asmodeus' head after some heroes hit him with some sacred artifact objects.
Other then my elven moon goddess, I'm fine as is.
Yep I am still using Sehanine.....she and Angharradh are one in the same. No way was Sehanine an aspect of Selune!!
There is a rumor that Mystra is still around too.....maybe in Elminster's head as the "voice".
Besides that I like the gods they have in 4E.
I keep my favorite deities in the game by saying "I'm the DM and I say so.'
I'm just not switching to 4.0.
Maybe, just maybe, they'll become more simulationist in 5th, and I'll like that. The reality is that I hate this system. I took 3rd along with the rest of my team in the Open at Gencon, and I STILL hate this system.
It doesn't feel like Dungeons and Dragons.
It doesn't look like Dungeons and Dragons.
It doesn't play like Dungeons and Dragons. It plays completely differently. Characters are too powerful at low levels. In the final round, when I was playing an 11th level character and I was surrounded by competent players, I really felt like it was a walk in the park.
I keep looking for risk and danger, and if I can't find it in the Open, which is the deadliest set of encounters known to the game, there's a problem.
Quite simply, the game isn't lethal enough.
I LIKE it when first level characters are fragile and can get killed by a lucky hit from an orc. I LIKE it when my character has to think about ways to get across that pit. I LIKE being able to customize my skills and out of character abilities to match my concept without taking a huge hit in combat because of how feats work.
Stats should be ROLLED. That's the SPIRIT of the game. If you don't like that, you should be playing 4th edition, because point buy is pretty much hardwired into the system.
Hit points should be ROLLED. They change your tactics and how effective your character is. Sometimes they force you to fight smarter instead of harder. That's not a bad thing. That's a good thing.
I feel like I'm looking at cookie cutter characters every time I look at sheets. I'm not happy with it. No matter how many cool "Powers" and "Utility Powers' and fancy names they come up with, I feel the imagination has been sucked out of the game.
Where are the landscapes, the grace, the beauty, the possibility of art? Where is there room for a dungeon master?
Where are RANDOM TREASURE GENERATION TABLES? I despise treasure so obviously keyed to the player characters that the adventure stinks.
There's just too much win built into this game for the PCs.
The game feels like D&D. It looks like it as well.
It is lethal. I have talked to many people who already had TPks. My group has "almost" TPked a few times even, but we use better tatic now. Read my sig.(the linky part)
Xvim: Is brought back by Bane just for the Hell of it.
-That seems almost counter productive for Bane. If you consider him Sith-esque, the apprentice always overthrows the master. With Xvim being the proverbial apprentice, and Bane being the proverbial master, why risk it?
There's plenty of room in 4E canon lore to do this (thanks to the FRCG) so I know I'm in good shape no matter what I choose to do.
Anyhow, the easiest answer for how to keep divinities in your Realms is not to remove them in the first place. Just fire the all-powerful /Ignore cannon at whatever references to their untimely demise exists, and if it affects some other change, re-rationalize it.
Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I'm doing that for Mystra, too, which means there will never be a Spellplague in my Realms.
There is a rumor that Mystra is still around too.....maybe in Elminster's head as the "voice".
Just letting you know, a couple people who have the 4E FRCG said the text about Elminster doesn't mention him hearing voices in his head.
4E Dead/Subsumed/Missing Gods?
I am trying to compile possible explanations for these gods' deaths (and ideas for how they come back).
Additions welcome, there are some neat ideas here!The information on the "voices" in Elminster's head was released a while prior to the FRCG. It is true that you will not find that in the guide itself. It was released much earlier.
Cheers
Oh...My...Gawd...
Another reason to purge them both. IMO. (Opinions will vary, that's just my reaction to this one...especially since I can *easily* see the Devs doing just that. Or the "She Is In Elminster And Bursts Forth Like Athena From Zeus's Head" thing that someone else mentioned, and I really hope they don't go down that road).
I really really agree with you. It would be well... very sad in the extreme. I don't mind El and the Simbul having a child, that's fine... But having that child end up being Mystra (and knowing the way the designers have been going, their child would be a son, so we'd end up with Mystro(n) or something), that would be very bad. IMHO, of course.
Admittedly hardest to do if the divinity you want to keep is Mystra herself, given that so much of the changes were rationalized as a result of her death. But I'm sure folks here can come up with new reasons for the changes you want to keep that are at least as good as the ones in the FRCG.
Mystra's easy to keep alive, if you want to use the Cyric and Shar Murders the Lady of Mysteries on her Home Plane plot. Cyric thought he killed her, but what he really did was forced her into a crysalis situation - put her in hibernation or some such... This made magic go wonky for a while, until she was reborn (and if you want to get rid of other magic gods at the time, absorbing Azuth, Velsharoon, and Savras). A side effect of this (if you want to change Mystra's alignment) is that she became unaligned. This rebirth also caused a change in the way magic works - ultimately spreading it far and wide since anyone with training can pick up rituals.
Mystra's also easy to keep alive, if you don't want to use the Cyric and Shar Murders the Lady of Mysteries on her Home Plane plot. Mystra never died, she just changed the way magic worked and it had unfortunate side effects for a while (the Spellplague).
And if you don't want the Spellplague at all - Mystra never died, she just changed the way magic worked slowly over the course of 100 years. Make your own guesstimates on how much this would effect the 4e Realms as presented in the FRCG.
(Having said all that, I'm still sticking to 3rd Ed Realms, possibly with 4e Rules (with a house rule limiting rituals to only be available to true spellcasters - Wizards and Clerics at the moment), once my current 3e campaign is over.)
IMO it's far easier to keep the divinities/characters/whatnot they remove than undo the landscape changes. {You've said that before - ED} I know I have, it remains true
Changing the landscape is fairly easy too. Just use the old maps, or just selectively use the maps that are available. I have, for example, used the new Cormyr map with the players in 3e Cormyr (only for determining distance, since it was easier to do on a printed sheet than on the one in the FRCS), since there's not much difference except in the coastline... Just ignore or change the political boundaries...
Really, it only takes a minimal amount of imagination and a reasonable amount of elbow grease (ie: time) to work it, but if you don't have the time (as I assume nearly everyone here has at least minimal imagination), it would be harder.
@Rinonalyrna Fathomlin,
The information on the "voices" in Elminster's head was released a while prior to the FRCG. It is true that you will not find that in the guide itself. It was released much earlier.
Cheers
-Right. Someone was explaining to me how the writers may have gone in a different direction, but the information in said article is still canon, and hasn't been contradicted, and thus, is still in effect. It is precisely because the information was already handed out that it's not included in the book.