First of all, as far as I know, 4th edition rules will be a lot similar to 3.5, that is, d20 system and all. If so, how could WotC print new sourcebooks if the world was pretty much the same as it was in 3.5? Think about it, a 4th edition Underdark book most likely wouldn't bring much new material to your gaming table without the whole Spellplague storyline. After all, a few minor stats adjustments and a new stat block don't justify a whole new book altogether. Without big, drastic changes, the world would still be pretty much the same as it is now, and every 3.X book would only need an errata to be fully compatible with 4th edition The Batman movie franchise was dead, now it's being renewed with great success. It's the same principle that's at work here, only they don't want to sell seats, but books.
Second, WotC is obviously trying to renew its player base. Drizzt being on the cover of the campaign setting is some convincing proof of that. Drizzt is the most well-known character of the realms, and probably the most liked among younger customers. Him being on the cover sends a clear message to the young audiences: "This is the world of Drizzt. This is the birthplace of your beloved hero. Interested? Pick up the book, my friend". It's all marketing, folks. Will that alienate some of the fans? Probably, but then, WotC certainly figures this will bring in more new players than drive off old ones. And I'd wager they're right. They did it with Magic a few years back, remember?
Most of us hate change, but it is inevitable. Matlock is gone, Abe, but that doesn't mean you can't enjoy Bones. I think that FR has been pretty much all mapped out in 3.5, most of the parts they were willing to develop, at least, and that now it is time to move on. Nothing keeps us from using the 3.5 sourcebooks in a 4th edition campaign. It's all there, in the books we own. They had to chose: rehash or renew. They wisely chose the later. In a few months, you just might agree with them.
But don't throw away your old sourcebooks, you never know...
But what about doing something actually creative? Greenwood came up with the Volo Guides in 2nd edition, and people love those even to this day. Those were a new idea, and very creative.
How many people still ask about Leaves from the Inn of the Last Home, from Dragonlance? That was 10/10 for awesome.
Realms designers could have made a concerted effort to create brand new lvl 1-20 adventures (stand alone or adventure paths) combined with regional details, perhaps heavier on the lower level end, so people can better break into the setting. Something like a Volo's Guide combined with a sourcebook, these could have centered on very localized regions, giving people a lot more detail about the individual Dalelands, or Citybooks that concentrated on a Sembian city... or a Thayan city, or anything.
Think "Keep on the Borderlands" combined with a mini-regional guide, but for the Realms. Think "Hommlet" with a regional guide detailing adventure hooks in the surrounding countryside, perhaps a witch's hovel, a druid grove, a description of caravans and their protectors. With art that can be used in games. Thing is, the Realms are so big that doing even this, again and again for different regions, would take forever and last well into the next edition.
That's just one idea that I suspect many would have loved, and I'm no designer.
Instead, and I guarantee this is what you'll get, there will be a big setting book, chock full of bits and pieces about the post-Spellplague Realms... but it will cut out a lot of the detail that people are used to getting. You'll probably get a paragraph or so on each regional area, but concentrating on how it's now "different" than it was. Also, about half the setting book will probably be "crunchy" things about "cool" new spell effects and rule options for players. Maybe there will be an index, but don't count on it. And people will go back to their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition books for setting fluff that's been glossed over. There won't be anything "new" about these new Realms except for the newly-generated RSEs that were not necessary in the first place.
Drizzt is not on the cover of the Forgotten Realms campaign guide. It has been said by the designers that the real cover will be something else entirely. The real cover has even been posted somewhere, but I don't remember where.
Now, that may or may not be true, but I think that people are overlooking a few issues here, which might explain the big changes.
-I can guarantee they have all been discussed ad nauseum.
If so, how could WotC print new sourcebooks if the world was pretty much the same as it was in 3.5?
-The Forgotten Realms is a living world, meaning it changes. Slowly (Overall, RSEs included). Actually, that isn't even the best term to use. It evolves.
-Open up a 1e book, and open up a 3.5e book, and see how much wholesale change there has been in the past thirty years or so. There's no reason why John the Fletcher, who opened up a business in Waterdeep in 1e, who continued to do good business in 2e, would magically disappear in 3e.
Think about it, a 4th edition Underdark book most likely wouldn't bring much new material to your gaming table without the whole Spellplague storyline.
-Right...How drastically has the world changed since...two-five years ago, as a 4e Forgotten Realms product would have been set sometime in this period, had the 4e transition not called for the 100 year time jump?
Second, WotC is obviously trying to renew its player base. Drizzt being on the cover of the campaign setting is some convincing proof of that. Drizzt is the most well-known character of the realms, and probably the most liked among younger customers. Him being on the cover sends a clear message to the young audiences: "This is the world of Drizzt. This is the birthplace of your beloved hero. Interested? Pick up the book, my friend".
-Drizzt is not on the cover of the 4e FRCS. This is the cover.
Most of us hate change, but it is inevitable.
-Yes, for a reason, and not because we are arbitrarily irrational, as you seem to be implying here.
I think that FR has been pretty much all mapped out in 3.5, most of the parts they were willing to develop, at least, and that now it is time to move on.
-Heh, that's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one: "The Forgotten Realms were pretty much all mapped out...the parts they were willing to develop, at least."
--Yes, for a reason, and not because we are arbitrarily irrational, as you seem to be implying here.
Are you sure? It seems to me that being rational would be:
a) admitting that without some major changes, the minor rule tweaks would not alone justify the publication of new books.
b) admitting that WotC knows something that we don't about publishing material for a campaign world they own and have evolved for years, be that creative (the writters felt they could not come up with enough new material to fill a book), sales-related (Hasbro dictates that we sell a given amount of books, and revamping the realms will help us reach that goal; we must keep the game moving, or else customer support will fall) and pereniality (we can't keep the game alive without bringing in more customers, and the young ones are the ones who will keep this game going for the next 30 years, so it's time we invest a little in them).
c) understanding that the changes don't kill the realms. They might kill the idea YOU have of the realms, but that doesn't necessarily reflect the opinion of other players. If you ask me, I agree that I don't particularly find the big changes creative or enticing, but even though I've been DMing in the realms for years, I am kinda neutral on the changes. Granted, I'm not into it as much as you seem to be.
d) admitting that it is your love of the current realms that makes you loathe drastic changes that much. Clearly, how could bringing new material, injecting new life into a product kill it? It might kill it for YOU, and bring it back to life for two others, or even the other way around. You don't know, and to be honest, they probably aren't 100% sure either. But they are playing the odds because they have done research and it shows that the odds are in their favour.
e) admitting that WotC/Hasbro, being a serious company, doesn't make changes like that lightly. Pretending that you know what's best for the Realms is not only presomptuous, but it's like saying that because you've been playing golf for many years, you know better than Tiger Woods. Clearly, WotC does this sort of thing for a living, their staff members are well-informed, they play the game and they have all manners of resources at their disposal. You? You play the game, most likely don't publish RPG books for a living, and don't have access to all the resources that they do. So it stands to reason that they have a significant edge over you in most aspects, don't you think?
f) realizing that WotC has experience in this sort of thing. They changed the face of Magic cards years ago. Old players were openly against it, and I was one of them. I swore I'd never buy cards again. Yet, they knew what they were doing. Years later, I'm still playing Magic, and I've grown to love the new layout. I was being arbitrarily irrational, loathing change. Today, I still think that the grey colour used on artifacts isn't close to the old brown, but I don't care anymore.
I'll say the real campaign book cover looks much better than the stand-in with Drizzt, and I stand corrected in this matter. But don't try to tell me that being so opposed to the changes is rational. I've been there, I know that deep down, reason has little to do with it all. You (all the above posters, myself excluded) are obviously big big fans of the setting, and you know it inside out. You might despise the changes, for good reasons, but those reasons are NOT all rational. I'd bet that some staff members were also opposed to the changes, but business-wise (and hopefully creative-wise, too), WotC had to make some changes in the name of reason.
Are you sure? It seems to me that being rational would be:
a) admitting that without some major changes, the minor rule tweaks would not alone justify the publication of new books.
...and all the bits of the novels that have happened since 3.x kicked in. Oh, and the further reaching effects of those novels that weren't covered in the novels themselves. And, given the vast changes to the 4e magic system, I'd be hard pressed to call the rule tweaks 'minor'. There are dozens of quirks to the rules of Faerun, governing everything from the Shadow Weave to Spellfire - all that stuff would need updating. Throw in some stats for generic troops for the Zhents and the other enemy organisations, you're already pushing up to the point where people will be wanting the book, even without the benefits of consolidating the best of the 3.x fluff (and further back) into a new core setting book.
b) admitting that WotC knows something that we don't about publishing material for a campaign world they own and have evolved for years, be that creative (the writters felt they could not come up with enough new material to fill a book), sales-related (Hasbro dictates that we sell a given amount of books, and revamping the realms will help us reach that goal; we must keep the game moving, or else customer support will fall) and pereniality (we can't keep the game alive without bringing in more customers, and the young ones are the ones who will keep this game going for the next 30 years, so it's time we invest a little in them).
This assumes that they do know something we don't. They could just as easily be running on the blanket assumption that FR is falling out of favour among players, without any basis for this view beyond their own opinions (we do know that no one in the WotC office plays there in their official games).
c) understanding that the changes don't kill the realms. They might kill the idea YOU have of the realms, but that doesn't necessarily reflect the opinion of other players. If you ask me, I agree that I don't particularly find the big changes creative or enticing, but even though I've been DMing in the realms for years, I am kinda neutral on the changes. Granted, I'm not into it as much as you seem to be.
The changes may or may not kill the realms in the long term - I can't comment on that. However, I can confirm that these changes kill the realms for me. I liked the 'magical renaissance' feel that it had, and if there's one thing that is incompatiable with the 'Points of Light' model, it's a Renaissance-style setting.
d) admitting that it is your love of the current realms that makes you loathe drastic changes that much. Clearly, how could bringing new material, injecting new life into a product kill it? It might kill it for YOU, and bring it back to life for two others, or even the other way around. You don't know, and to be honest, they probably aren't 100% sure either. But they are playing the odds because they have done research and it shows that the odds are in their favour.
They are gambling, I'll give you that. An given that I've yet to find a single person in the RP club I'm in who says that they've found the changes an improvement (or even on an equal footing), I'd happily dispute the notion that they have the odds in their favour.
e) admitting that WotC/Hasbro, being a serious company, doesn't make changes like that lightly. Pretending that you know what's best for the Realms is not only presomptuous, but it's like saying that because you've been playing golf for many years, you know better than Tiger Woods. Clearly, WotC does this sort of thing for a living, their staff members are well-informed, they play the game and they have all manners of resources at their disposal. You? You play the game, most likely don't publish RPG books for a living, and don't have access to all the resources that they do. So it stands to reason that they have a significant edge over you in most aspects, don't you think?
In theory, you would be correct... and yet we, the people who have put the most time and attention into the setting out of their existing player-base have voiced immense dislike for a wide variety of the changes, indicating that WotC have either grossly misstepped or knowingly sacrificed the majority of the most reliable and profitable slice of the market for this product. And word spreads - I'd be hard pressed to imagine a scenario more damaging to the opinions of new customers (the supposed target of these changes) than for all the old customers to begin telling them that it isn't worthwhile to buy FR, as all the interesting bits have either been cut out or could be at any given time.
f) realizing that WotC has experience in this sort of thing. They changed the face of Magic cards years ago. Old players were openly against it, and I was one of them. I swore I'd never buy cards again. Yet, they knew what they were doing. Years later, I'm still playing Magic, and I've grown to love the new layout. I was being arbitrarily irrational, loathing change. Today, I still think that the grey colour used on artifacts isn't close to the old brown, but I don't care anymore.
I have to admit, I'm not familiar with this change. Did this substantially change the entire way in which you occupied the game? Faerun has changed from an enourmous web of intrigue and power to a vast magical wilderness dotted with the fallen husks of great networks. Almost no-one retains the power they held before the Spellplague, and the vast vacuum of power (while not an implicitly bad thing in a campaign setting) vastly shifts the play style of a given plot.
I'll say the real campaign book cover looks much better than the stand-in with Drizzt, and I stand corrected in this matter. But don't try to tell me that being so opposed to the changes is rational. I've been there, I know that deep down, reason has little to do with it all. You (all the above posters, myself excluded) are obviously big big fans of the setting, and you know it inside out. You might despise the changes, for good reasons, but those reasons are NOT all rational. I'd bet that some staff members were also opposed to the changes, but business-wise (and hopefully creative-wise, too), WotC had to make some changes in the name of reason.
My opinions on the changes are not purely rational, no. Although how you can ever expect an opinion to be, I have no idea. Regardless of the rationality of my feelings, they're still there and I'm still another customer who they would have had to work fairly hard to alienate in the past; between this and the frustratingly oblique way in which they handled the transfer of Dragon & Dungeon to the website, I have relatively little good feeling for WotC left at the moment. Let's hope that the mechanical changes that have looked so intruiging will keep me interested.
As for the big changes themselves, I'll make a confession: I found 3 links to online Dragon articles about it, and didn't even bother to give them more than a passing glance. Yeah, Spellplague is that boring. Did they really "destroy" all the major organizations of the setting?
Be that as it may, my argumentation being not about the changes themselves, but about the reasons behind those changes, my ignorance changes nothing. WotC wouldn't risk alienating their loyal fanbase for peanuts. They *must* know what they are doing, or they felt they had no choice.
Whatever happens, we still have our old books to fall back to.
After all, you can alwase continue to play the old version. I know that has been said about a million times, but sense were on the 4E discussion and all some people can talk about is past versions and why there better it seems to need near constant re-stating.
On the whole I agree with TC.
I was being arbitrarily irrational, loathing change.
-And that is the difference between you and the multitude of others who dislike the changes being done to the setting, who are not against the change for the sake of change being change.
-I originally broke down your post point by point, refuting nearly every group statement you made. I then deleted it all, and chose to highlight just that one statement above. I already conceded that there are a variety of individuals who are simply against change, because it is change. That is irrational. To be against change, for numerous logical reasons, all specically related to the setting, is not. You seem to be painting WotC, and all those who work for WotC in some kind of infallable light, for reasons foreign to me. They have demonstrated, on numerous occasions, that they are Human Beings, and make mistakes- even ones related to the Forgotten Realms- often enough.
Even though fans tend to believe they know what's best for a "product", they often don't. If you were to let the fans create Magic cards, for instance (again, drawing an example from one of my other hobbies - sorry about that), the game would certainly be dead in a few short years. There are so many aspects and restrictions we don't know anything about that go into the publishing and designing of these books. I'm just trying to get everyone to acknowledge that, so that they can better understand WHY there have been such dramatic changes made. I won't believe that they made those specific changes at random. They had to know what they wanted to change, and why, because they certainly were expecting rabid fan responses.
The company is responsible for its products, and it's WotC's job to make sure that DnD lives long and prosper (after all, they stand the most to gain from it). I don't expect WotC to always make the best decisions, but I trust they're able to make the best decisions most of the time, therefore allowing our favourite hobby to grow and evolve in a positive direction.
Did they blow it on this one? Time will tell. Again, I don't think WotC is infaillible, but I sure believe they have their best interests at heart, and I believe that their interests lie in DnD growing and becoming better and better. That's where I'm putting my money, and this is why I won't judge the FR revamp a failure until I've read the book and played within the new Realms. When they made those changes, they must have had the best interests of DnD in mind (otherwise they just want to make a quick profit and don't care if the game dies in a few years - also a possibility, but nothing supports this).
THIS is my rationale.
I won't believe that they made those specific changes at random.
-Of course not. No one was a proponent of that. Chris Sims made up a concise list of ten reasons why things were changing. And, all ten were throroughly rebutted.
That's where I'm putting my money, and this is why I won't judge the FR revamp a failure until I've read the book and played within the new Realms.
-Do you need to drink something that has ingredients that you are allergic to, to know that it will put you in anaphylactic shock?
I bought anything with a FR label on it but my friends who were only mildly into the setting bought the campaign book and one or two books that helped them with their characters. My friends just thought there was too much to the Realms to "start now". I think with this "fresh start" they hope people like my frinds or others that jumped ship will try the newer products.
So now we got a 100 year jump and perhaps another Waterdeep book but we have to buy it because alot has changed in 100 years. I think WOTC thinks this will revitalize the campaign world. Yes some people will never buy an FR book again but I think many more might. You can never judge anything from looking at the boards. Even if they fail they will still make money off the core products and Eberron because that setting is new and doesn't need an overhaul yet.
All of the above is my opinion. I have no figures.
-Of course not. No one was a proponent of that. Chris Sims made up a concise list of ten reasons why things were changing. And, all ten were throroughly rebutted.
Do you have a link, perchance?
-Do you need to drink something that has ingredients that you are allergic to, to know that it will put you in anaphylactic shock?
This logic implies I've consumed the ingredient(s) at least once, otherwise how would I know I'm allergic to it? When I read the book and play in the campaign world, I'll know if I'm allergic to it. Until then, it's only never-seen-before food on a plate.
Now, I think I made my point and voiced my opinion, and this argument has drawn out long enough. Cheers!
This logic implies I've consumed the ingredient(s) at least once, otherwise how would I know I'm allergic to it? When I read the book and play in the campaign world, I'll know if I'm allergic to it. Until then, it's only never-seen-before food on a plate.
Well, I ate a bunch of mixed nuts at one time and found out I'm allergic to one. But, I really loved the cashews. Even though I turned red, blew up like a weeble-wobble and itched like crazy, I'd be willing to dig back in to find out if it was the cashews if I had some benadryl at hand.
Count me in!
Now, I think I made my point and voiced my opinion, and this argument has drawn out long enough. Cheers!
Um...don't visit much, do ya?
Besides, you just quoted Karsus. According to him, our opinion don't mean much of dunk if he thinks otherwise.
Ooooh! You gonna get it!
This logic implies I've consumed the ingredient(s) at least once, otherwise how would I know I'm allergic to it? When I read the book and play in the campaign world, I'll know if I'm allergic to it. Until then, it's only never-seen-before food on a plate.
Well, I ate a bunch of mixed nuts at one time and found out I'm allergic to one. But, I really loved the cashews. Even though I turned red, blew up like a weeble-wobble and itched like crazy, I'd be willing to dig back in to find out if it was the cashews if I had some benadryl at hand.
Count me in!
Now, I think I made my point and voiced my opinion, and this argument has drawn out long enough. Cheers!
Um...don't visit much, do ya?
Besides, you just quoted Karsus. According to him, our opinion don't mean much of dunk if he thinks otherwise.
Ooooh! You gonna get it!
Do you have a link, perchance?
-They can be found in his designer journals.
This logic implies I've consumed the ingredient(s) at least once, otherwise how would I know I'm allergic to it?
-Only if you insert that part into the equation. All that is needed to test if one is allergic to something or not is a drop of blood, which is used to run various tests. One does not need to eat peanut butter to find out he/she is allergic to peanut butter. How do you think those who are highly allergic to certain things, such as shellfish, for instance, to the point that ingesting the substance is fatal, know of their situation?
When I read the book and play in the campaign world, I'll know if I'm allergic to it. Until then, it's only never-seen-before food on a plate.
-Again, see above. That said, it is not a plate of food you have never seen before. It is a plate of various foods with ingredients you know you are allergic to.
Now, I think I made my point and voiced my opinion, and this argument has drawn out long enough. Cheers!
-Unless you just conceeded your point, that's not how it works around here. ;)
According to him, our opinion don't mean much of dunk if he thinks otherwise.
-It's not that it doesn't mean anything...
-It's not that it doesn't mean anything...
...it just doesn't mean dunk?
...it just doesn't mean dunk?
-Well, elaborate what 'dunk' means. I know it only as the the basketball-related terminology.
-Well, elaborate what 'dunk' means. I know it only as the the basketball-related terminology.
"Dunk" is the polite terminology for
, otherwise referred to as , and sometimes used as an adjective for .Occasionally, it is used to describe
.Otherwise, it is what you make of it. :D
I don't see a Chris Sims on the blog list, maybe I'm looking in the wrong place? A link would be appreciated
Was Chris Perkins actually, not Sims... misattribution by LK there (:P) to see if we were paying attention. ;)
-Yes. Here you go.
I ran 1e FR, still have my gray box, ahh the good old days; I ran 2e FR, a little; I bought the 3e FR campaign setting and never ran FR again.
In my humble opinion, FR has become the rules lawyer setting. I am not a rules lawyer, I don't have the time to be one and being annal retentive has never appealed to me anyhow.
I will buy the 4e FR, I have high hopes, but I will never be able to go back to the 1e days, unless I design it myself.
Space
In my humble opinion, FR has become the rules lawyer setting. I am not a rules lawyer, I don't have the time to be one and being annal retentive has never appealed to me anyhow.
-The fact that the setting has continued to sell debunks this notion. Unless everybody is a rules lawyer. Are they?
-And, this is a percieved problem with the ruleset of 3e, and not the Forgotten Realms.
I will buy the 4e FR, I have high hopes, but I will never be able to go back to the 1e days, unless I design it myself.
-What makes you think that the 4e Forgotten Realms will fix your percieved problems?
-The fact that the setting has continued to sell debunks this notion. Unless everybody is a rules lawyer. Are they?
-And, this is a percieved problem with the ruleset of 3e, and not the Forgotten Realms.
-What makes you think that the 4e Forgotten Realms will fix your percieved problems?
Stigger is partially correct. It isn't just the depth of the cannon that has turned me from the realms. As an example the pantheon used to be a lot simpler, it actually became more complicated in 2e with the TSR glut, but all of the gods and different levels of gods were combined in the 3e setting book. In 1e and 2e you basically had two areas to deal with, the sword coast and the dales/cormyr area.
The 3e book was a tremendous undertaking, so much information was released on the realms during the 2e days that it was a momentous undertaking. On the forerunner to these message boards there was much debate, similar to now. There was literally hundreds of posts on how the map should be attached to the book. Posters really pushed for things like the economics of the realms to be included in the book. They attempted to include as much as they could and to make as many people happy as they could. There was much outcry because previously "blank slate" areas were going to be detailed. The fear was that this would ruin the realms and destroy individual's games. There was talk that the realms shattering event would be an invasion of a huge orc army. There was much lamenting and then there was Eric L. Boyd trying to ease everyone's fears.
Why do I have hope that the 4e setting will be different? My hope is that this group of designer's will learn from the last group's mistakes, therefore the 4e realms will be more enjoyable to play. They don't seem to be trying to make everyone happy, this is a good sign. :D
When I referenced rules lawyers, I was referencing a mentality and a personality type. Lord Karsus, from your statement, I would conclude that you are a rules lawyer. I am referencing the stereotype associated with Dungeon and Dragons where an individual feels the need to point out nuances to bolster themselves. :D
The FR setting will always sell, due to the popularity of the novels.
When I referenced rules lawyers, I was referencing a mentality and a personality type. Lord Karsus, from your statement, I would conclude that you are a rules lawyer. I am referencing the stereotype associated with Dungeon and Dragons where an individual feels the need to point out nuances to bolster themselves. :D
-THIS is the definition of 'Rules Lawyer'. I, myself, am not a rules lawyer. I do not use a great deal of the rules presented in the PHB. Attack of Opportunity, for instance? Nope. Combat Casting Concentration rolls? Nope. Use Magic Device to use magical wands and other items? Nope. Grapple? Don't even know how it's supposed to be used, let along why it's 'bad'.
-That said, there is a differentiation between rules, which stem from the current D&D ruleset, and lore, which stems from the setting itself.
-I am in possession of a decent amount of knowledge, and no qualms in pointing out when others are wrong, in my opinion, or in actuality.
-THIS is the definition of 'Rules Lawyer'. I, myself, am not a rules lawyer. I do not use a great deal of the rules presented in the PHB. Attack of Opportunity, for instance? Nope. Combat Casting Concentration rolls? Nope. Use Magic Device to use magical wands and other items? Nope. Grapple? Don't even know how it's supposed to be used, let along why it's 'bad'.
-That said, there is a differentiation between rules, which stem from the current D&D ruleset, and lore, which stems from the setting itself.
-I am in possession of a decent amount of knowledge, and no qualms in pointing out when others are wrong, in my opinion, or in actuality.
I'm not going to debate the accuracy of wikipedia.
Perhaps we should coin a new term "lore lawyer." You can be the leader of the lore lawyers. Now if we can only get credit for this new term.
Lord Karsus <---- Lore Lawyer
Spacekase said it first, as far as I can tell. Lord Karsus should get credit also, he gave me the idea.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
I diverge from the point I was attempting to make. The point was that the 3e FR setting was just a bear and the switch to 3.5 pretty much killed any interest that I had in it. The realms will always have a special place in my RPG heart. In my humble opinion, I have hopes that they create a more interesting and easier to run realms.
Space
...unless I don't agree with him, in which case its a horrible habit. :D
Oh, when ego's collide....
Perhaps we should coin a new term "lore lawyer." You can be the leader of the lore lawyers. Now if we can only get credit for this new term.
Lord Karsus <---- Lore Lawyer
Spacekase said it first, as far as I can tell. Lord Karsus should get credit also, he gave me the idea.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D
-The term already exists: canophile, or something to that effect. Sounds like some kind of alien...
I diverge from the point I was attempting to make. The point was that the 3e FR setting was just a bear and the switch to 3.5 pretty much killed any interest that I had in it. The realms will always have a special place in my RPG heart. In my humble opinion, I have hopes that they create a more interesting and easier to run realms.
-Honestly, how was the switch from 3e to 3.5e that bad? I didn't even know that such a thing happened until I realized some of my books said 3e, and others said 3.5e. I currently DM with a 3e Dungeon Master's Guide, a 3e Monster Manual, and a 3.5e Player's Handbook, and I've never found a real "game killing" hitch in the 2+ years (just about) I've been doing it.
Except for that small detail that LK doesn't even play in the Realms as far as I know, and just cares about the storyline... difference between what we do on the boards for the sake of discussion and what we do at home.
-Yes, I am primarily interested in the setting because of the metaplot, and the stories the setting itself has told, and has yet to tell. I fail to see how that makes me "different", or "wrong", or whatever else.
-And, for your information, if everything goes according to plan, I'll be playing in my first Forgotten Realms campaign with Rino, msatran and johnkretzer on Saturday night. :D
Though Lore Lawyer probably describes him pretty well as far as debates go, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, unless I don't agree with him, in which case its a horrible habit. :D
-Of course it doesn't have negative conotations. You know what other people are 'lore lawyers'? Scholars. Professors. Like you being in the Rebel Alliance, it's good company to be in.
The Lore Lawyer thing could have a negative connotation, but only in reference to Dan (:D). And maybe a couple of others... Certainly not to people like Krash or Old Sage though. It all depends on who it refers to.
-And, for your information, if everything goes according to plan, I'll be playing in my first Forgotten Realms campaign with Rino, msatran and johnkretzer on Saturday night. :D
Congrats! You'll love it.
Not West Coast, just semi-archaic, and probably British in origin. Derived off of spiffy. Look it up. :P
-I figured it had something to do with 'spiffy', given that the 'spiff' is the root for both terms.
Congrats! You'll love it.
-In more ways than one.
;)-The term already exists: canophile, or something to that effect. Sounds like some kind of alien...
Yes. I believe they have a maw full of razer sharp fangs, drool acid and have a penchant for gnawing off faces.
Yes. I believe they have a maw full of razer sharp fangs, drool acid and have a penchant for gnawing off faces.
-A ha! Canoloth! That's what I was thinking of!
-A ha! Canoloth! That's what I was thinking of!
Yep. Watch out for the tongue and don't let the fact they have no eyes fool you!
-And, for your information, if everything goes according to plan, I'll be playing in my first Forgotten Realms campaign with Rino, msatran and johnkretzer on Saturday night. :D
That's Great!
I know how you feel, I haven't played D&D in about four months now
That's Great!
I know how you feel, I haven't played D&D in about four months now
Eh, that's what you get for trading your D-20's in for the push up academy. ;)
Eh, that's what you get for trading your D-20's in for the push up academy. ;)
I can do push-us ALL day though
But you are right, last time I played was then I was on leave back home. I don't know know any group here, and I don't feel comftreble enough with my english to DM ( "so you walk into the inn and interestingly enough EVERYBODY you hear have a puertorican accent" :nonono
I can do push-us ALL day though
But you are right, last time I played was then I was on leave back home. I don't know know any group here, and I don't feel comftreble enough with my english to DM ( "so you walk into the inn and interestingly enough EVERYBODY you hear have a puertorican accent" :nonono
Yeah, its a good and bad thing. One of my gaming buddies joined the Marines and we had to give a grand nuking to his character. He got shipped out to San Diego and has never gamed since--even though he loved the hell out of it.
But, on the flip side, he now earns 6 figures a year--so there is hope, Ody.
Too bad he spends it all on himself and doesn't buy us an island where all of us can go live and game all day.
Too bad he spends it all on himself and doesn't buy us an island where all of us can go live and game all day.
-D&D Island...Think of the possibilities there...
-D&D Island...Think of the possibilities there...
A bunch of intellectual slackers all by themselves on an island, with no rules to govern them except for what they find in the DMG and PHB?
A bunch of intellectual slackers all by themselves on an island, with no rules(or women for that matter) to govern them except for what they find in the DMG and PHB?
Fix it for ya! :D
I think the Island will be divided in two factions (Pro 3E and pro 4E) and since the owner will be your marine friend is going to come down to War:evillaugh
Fix it for ya! :D
I think the Island will be divided in two factions (Pro 3E and pro 4E) and since the owner will be your marine friend is going to come down to War:evillaugh
Even female D&D gamers aren't allowed? Hmmm.... Suppose I could live with it. I was just figuring they would be pretending to be somebody so much of the time that we weren't really going to be dealing with them anyway. Any chick pretending to be a dwarven warrior, rather than a fashion diva is ok with me. ;)
And, yes. I can see Lord of the Flies developing real quickly.
Who gets to be Piggy?
Fix it for ya! :D
-Maybe on your island. Not mine...
-Maybe on your island. Not mine...
I guess we found Piggy.
I guess we found Piggy.
-Piggy would not have girls on his island.
-That said, Piggy was fat. I am not fat.
-Piggy would not have girls on his island.
-That said, Piggy was fat. I am not fat.
But Piggy would want girls on his island. And as far as I know, you could be humongous. Just because you say you aren't something, doesn't mean its the truth. :D
A bunch of intellectual slackers all by themselves on an island, with no rules to govern them except for what they find in the DMG and PHB?
Nah, it fall apart once they realize Dominoes doesn't deliver there in under 30 minutes. When the beer runs out, you won't want to be within a 1000 miles of the place! :D
Nah, it fall apart once they realize Dominoes doesn't deliver there in under 30 minutes. When the beer runs out, you won't want to be within a 1000 miles of the place! :D
No worries. We would just bring along Giovanni The Pizza Maker. And anybody can brew their own beer. Everything would be fine.
-Maybe on your island. Not mine...
Only in the Army they take you away from your desk to cut grass...
It was a joke (you know, they are NO girl players...) AND I didn't say I was going to be in any island (besides PR). If I ever go there I ill probably take it from the Marine dude ....
BY FORCE :evillaugh
Only in the Army they take you away from your desk to cut grass...
And I bet you are just awfully good at it, too. ;)
If I ever go there I ill probably take it from the Marine dude ....
BY FORCE :evillaugh
Dude, you have no idea what you would be getting in to. That's like me saying I can score on a FR lore test better than LK can. It's just not possible.
Though, he was mistaken about Son of Thunder. Got me to read it for nothing, he did.
It was a joke (you know, they are NO girl players...)
-Let's see...Off the top of my head, I can name six girls who play D&D with me, or have, at various points in time.
Though, he was mistaken about Son of Thunder. Got me to read it for nothing, he did.
-It didn't mention the Leaves of Three Nights, or whatever that other Sharran text was? Well, either way, it had a Shade, and it was a good story.
And I bet you are just awfully good at it, too. ;)
Is that A Puertorican joke?!?!? :P
Dude, you have no idea what you would be getting in to. That's like me saying I can score on a FR lore test better than LK can. It's just not possible.
Though, he was mistaken about Son of Thunder. Got me to read it for nothing, he did.
Ah, You see That's when you are wrong I know what A Marine can do and I'll Admit that their inicial training is better than what we soldier get. HOWEVER I do not train like your regular soldier. :evillaugh (no joke) But that's clasified info AND that's not the threads topic.
What's the thread's topic again?
-Let's see...Off the top of my head, I can name six girls who play D&D with me, or have, at various points in time.
I WAS JOKING
I know around four...
But then again not many people know that I play D&D. (I'm sort of a closet geek :P)
-It didn't mention the Leaves of Three Nights, or whatever that other Sharran text was? Well, either way, it had a Shade, and it was a good story.
Didn't mention any Sharran text. Did not have a Shade. Was not a good story.
Though, I still have a few pages left, so maybe they'll rewrite it all real quick and prove you right.
Son of Thunder is about the Thunderbeast barbarian tribe. Sound familiar? Read it?
Ah, You see That's when you are wrong I know what A Marine can do and I'll Admit that their inicial training is better than what we soldier get. HOWEVER I do not train like your regular soldier. :evillaugh (no joke) But that's clasified info AND that's not the threads topic.
What's the thread's topic again?
You're right. Whatever was I thinking? How could a Marine--even a highly intelligent and competent one, such as my friend--ever take out you, Ody? I mean, an Army grunt that gets trained to mow a lawn like you can just has to be deadly.
Didn't mention any Sharran text. Did not have a Shade. Was not a good story.
Though, I still have a few pages left, so maybe they'll rewrite it all real quick and prove you right.
Son of Thunder is about the Thunderbeast barbarian tribe. Sound familiar? Read it?
You're right. Whatever was I thinking? How could a Marine--even a highly intelligent and competent one, such as my friend--ever take out you, Ody? I mean, an Army grunt that gets trained to mow a lawn like you can just has to be deadly.
That's IT!!!!
another puertorican joke and I..I..
In a serious note I HATE when people say that we in the military cuz we are too dumb or whatever
That's IT!!!!
In a serious note I HATE when people say that we in the military cuz we are too dumb or whatever
Whoa, man. That comment had nothing to do with you being Puerto Rican. You, yourself, said that you got pulled away from your desk to mow the lawn. And I missed the comment about you asking if it was a joke. My apologies.
I've got no issues with Puerto Rican's (except for this one evil female
, that I shall not name). You guys make great rum! :D And, as for the dumb comment, didn't I just say that my friend was a "highly intelligent and competent" Marine?
Whoa, man. That comment had nothing to do with you being Puerto Rican. You, yourself, said that you got pulled away from your desk to mow the lawn. And I missed the comment about you asking if it was a joke. My apologies.
I'm just joking, (there's a steriotype of hispanic being really good at landscaping) you cool in my bookI've got no issues with Puerto Rican's (except for this one evil female
there's always one (or in my case like freking four, My friends think its cool, that makes me a "playa" but its not
)And, as for the dumb comment, didn't I just say that my friend was a "highly intelligent and competent" Marine?
I wasn't attacking you, I was just saying since you brough the subject.;)
Still better than the Airforce though... but then, what isn't? :P :D
Ody?
j/k
Most of the Marines I've met were highly intelligent and competant... not all, but a good majority of them.
QFT:D
As for the Army... unless its Rangers, Airborne, or Special Forces, I have little use for them.
I'm Airborne and I don't know if you remmember who I work for but I can Bring theDrow vs. S.E.A.L.s thread to refresh your memory :P
Still better than the Airforce though... but then, what isn't? :P :D
Again QFT
Ody?
j/k
I don't even know how to answer that one
I don't even know how to answer that one
Aw, don't cry. Here. Have a twinkie. Karsus loves 'em. :D
Aw, don't cry. Here. Have a twinkie. Karsus loves 'em. :D
I WAS JOKING
-I know, I know. I was just saying.
Though, I still have a few pages left, so maybe they'll rewrite it all real quick and prove you right.
-Whoops. Looks like I accidentally ruined part of the ending of the book for you...
Aw, don't cry. Here. Have a twinkie. Karsus loves 'em. :D
-Ugh, no I don't. I don't like twinkies at all. I do like devil dogs and yodels, though.
And twinkies are evil, vile, disgusting, excreble pseudo-food that should be banished from the face of the Earth post haste. :P
Yes, I do have a vague recollection of who you work for Ody... so no need to bring that forsaken thread up.
And twinkies are evil, vile, disgusting, excreble pseudo-food that should be banished from the face of the Earth post haste. :P
Hmph!
Authentic name-brand Twinkies are the food of the gods. If you've been disappointed before, you probably ate a knock-off brand. :D-Whoops. Looks like I accidentally ruined part of the ending of the book for you...
Well, seeing how I didn’t get back to this thread before reading the end of it on the train, not so much. But I do stand corrected. Though the other two points remain unchanged.
-Ugh, no I don't. I don't like twinkies at all. I do like devil dogs and yodels, though.
You’re so damn picky it’s retarded. And I never thought anybody could be more picky or retarded than me.
Damn. That was just retarded of me to say.
Son of Thunder is about the Thunderbeast barbarian tribe. Sound familiar? Read it?
And this just came off like me being an ass—which is not at all what I intended or was trying to get at. My apologies LK if it sounded like I was being a
to you.And twinkies are evil, vile, disgusting, excreble pseudo-food that should be banished from the face of the Earth post haste. :P
Well, since I have already established that Karsus is like a twinkie, does that mean he has to go, too? :D
Hmph!
Hmmm…? Bejebuz doesn’t eat twinkies. Though, he did take the form of a Ho-Ho one time and commanded me to TP my neighbors front yard and shave their cat. That was much better than a twinkie, I must say.
Well, seeing how I didn’t get back to this thread before reading the end of it on the train, not so much. But I do stand corrected. Though the other two points remain unchanged.
-Okay, good. That would have sucked, to have accidentally ruined the ending.
-I found the book was pretty good. You didn't. Opinions vary.
...Hmmm…? Bejebuz doesn’t eat twinkies. Though, he did take the form of a Ho-Ho one time and commanded me to TP my neighbors front yard and shave their cat. That was much better than a twinkie, I must say.
Heh... "Form of... a Taco!" "Shape of... a Ho-ho!"
I'd be careful around such capricous deities. :D
-Okay, good. That would have sucked, to have accidentally ruined the ending.
-I found the book was pretty good. You didn't. Opinions vary.
It didn't suck, but I didn't find it to be good. I thought that there was a lot left to be done in the writing. I used to think it was editing, but there are so many FR novels I read that jump from here to there in a heartbeat that the storyline becomes completely ruined. This happened to do the same.
Heh... "Form of... a Taco!" "Shape of... a Ho-ho!"
I'd be careful around such capricous deities. :D
Just because you like a mouthful, doesn't mean that I do, sicko.
And, having crossed over to the Marines as well, I can say Semper Fi! OOrah!!
As far as the Army goes, I find that unless you are Infantry (as I was), arty, tanks, or other combat related mos, they just a bunch of lazy pogues. (slight exaggeration here hehe)
As for the Marines, most professional bunch of guys and gals I've ever known. I'd much rather go to war with the Marines than the Army. We don't mess around hehe.
It's hard to say who is smarter though, because once a SGT starts screaming people seem to just go stupid for some reason hehe.
And by the by, I've had a actual sponge cakes filled with actual cream (several varieties of!), which were quite good, but I've no idea how a Twinkie can make the claim to be anything near that...
I may have missed something (which I doubt)... but at what point did you even remotely suggest that LK was like a Twinkie, much less establish it as fact anywhere but your deranged mind JD?
And by the by, I've had a actual sponge cakes filled with actual cream (several varieties of!), which were quite good, but I've no idea how a Twinkie can make the claim to be anything near that...
My derangement has not yet exceeded yours, Stigger--so no worries. ;)
My reference to Karsus being a twinkie was in another post. I think it may have been the one where BBall said something that LK and I were "clueless" about and we had three pages of dialog concerning what was actually said. If you wanna dig in and go read it, then be my guest! :D
...Just because you like a mouthful, doesn't mean that I do, sicko.
Hm... I think you're mistaking me for someone else. I don't eat deities that transform into tacos or... other tubular dessert snacks. I prefer northern pagan goddesses who dance. Much tastier. ;)
Hm... I think you're mistaking me for someone else. I don't eat deities that transform into tacos or... other tubular dessert snacks. I prefer northern pagan goddesses who dance. Much tastier. ;)
/finds Daenaan
/dangles the twinkie on a stick in front of Daenaan
:angelhide
You know you want it, come and get it
/finds Daenaan
/dangles the twinkie on a stick in front of Daenaan
:angelhide
You know you want it, come and get it
As long as it's not a disguised deity with ulterior motives, bring it on! I loves me some real twinkies! :D
Hm... I think you're mistaking me for someone else. I don't eat deities that transform into tacos or... other tubular dessert snacks. I prefer northern pagan goddesses who dance. Much tastier. ;)
Bejebuz doesn't transform into anything! He is the essence of all that is tasty. And that includes your pagan tramps that shake their booty's!
Bejebuz dances, too. He just doesn't do it often. For some reason, people don't find Aunt Jemima all that sexy.
My reference to Karsus being a twinkie was in another post. I think it may have been the one where BBall said something that LK and I were "clueless" about and we had three pages of dialog concerning what was actually said. If you wanna dig in and go read it, then be my guest! :D
-It's definitley worth it, Stig. It was pretty funny. THIS is the thread.
-It's definitley worth it, Stig. It was pretty funny. THIS is the thread.
Karsus. Why in the hell--any of the 9--would you subject that on someone again?
Stigger--and fellow readers--beware.
Karsus. Why in the hell--any of the 9--would you subject that on someone again?
-For a laugh, of course. It's funny.
-For a laugh, of course. It's funny.
Unfortunately, you made me go back and read it just to check. I did, indeed, laugh my ass off.
BBall seems to have left the court after all that. So, to settle my conscience, were you ever on the same page with him or were you as confused as I? That seems to be one of his big things--that I didn't get what he was saying and you did. He didn't want me involved.
Seems iffy to me. When, in fact, you came back to school him right after.
But, my group a while ago decided to give it a try. So I posted here "Why do you like it?" to see if I could get why people would choose a setting that was just completely normal D&D (no rules change, no tone change, no drastic reconcept of any monster, no characteristic creature other than the drow...)
In that threat, I was told that the setting was "alive", something that I had read in the campaing book, but that didn't jumped to my attention since I didn't tought that kind of thing would matter in the game table. But now that I know that the setting is getting close to destroyed by a spellplague and that it's been advanced a century, everything has changed...
That is a setting that's alive. I can know talk to older players and here about the story of those Forgotten Realms in which there was this and that, and about them playing for certain organization now vanished.
So, for those who think that this change won't atract new players, I tell you something: it's already got me.
Most of the Marines I've met were highly intelligent and competant... not all, but a good majority of them. As for the Army... unless its Rangers, Airborne, or Special Forces, I have little use for them. Still better than the Airforce though... but then, what isn't? :P :D
Nah, like 95% of Army Intelligence are geeks. Least all the ones I knew. I remember buying a PHB, DMG, MM and a Dungeon magazine before going out on a 10 day rotation in Ft Irwin. We spent most of the time sitting around waiting for the battle to come by. So we'd break out the Dungeon and someone would run!
I have never played a Forgotten Realms campaing. The setting has always seemed like... too core... too common. I've now played half of Neverwinter Nights 2 (the computer game) and I haven't changed my opinion
But, my group a while ago decided to give it a try. So I posted here "Why do you like it?" to see if I could get why people would choose a setting that was just completely normal D&D (no rules change, no tone change, no drastic reconcept of any monster, no characteristic creature other than the drow...)
In that threat, I was told that the setting was "alive", something that I had read in the campaing book, but that didn't jumped to my attention since I didn't tought that kind of thing would matter in the game table. But now that I know that the setting is getting close to destroyed by a spellplague and that it's been advanced a century, everything has changed...
That is a setting that's alive. I can know talk to older players and here about the story of those Forgotten Realms in which there was this and that, and about them playing for certain organization now vanished.
So, for those who think that this change won't atract new players, I tell you something: it's already got me.
Meh, I don't think you need to obliterate half a setting to make it alive. Look at Eberron. Had there been no new edition, we'd still have Eberron the same timeline wise as the day it came off the press the ink still wet on the first copy. The Realms would have seen two major plots laid out in the novels and incorporated into the lore.
Example, when the Realms was first introduced, Myth Drannor was a place fallen to demons. No one but foolhardy adventurers went there. There was a guard on the place to keep most out. Now the Elven Crusade was marched in and cleaned the place up. A former member of Evermeet's ruling council is now in charge (don't remember his name but he's a High Priest of Corelleon) backed up by a true ress'ed Captain of Myth Drannor's army from the fall. The mythal was restored to its proper function by an elven High Mage (though not an "official" one as he learned High Magic on his own, a real no-no).
So Year one of FR - Myth Drannor a demon haunted ghost town
Year (what 30 some odd, LK will know) - Myth Drannor a new kingdom
Year one of Eberron - Same as year 5 of Eberron and would be the same as year 10 or 20 or 30 but they might be moving the time line up a little to account for the change from 3.x to 4e. That's alive, not butchering a continent or two.
Unfortunately, you made me go back and read it just to check. I did, indeed, laugh my ass off.
-I told you.
BBall seems to have left the court after all that. So, to settle my conscience, were you ever on the same page with him or were you as confused as I? That seems to be one of his big things--that I didn't get what he was saying and you did. He didn't want me involved.
-As I said, I had no clue on what page he was on. Shortly after you typed your recap of things, I posted something that, more or less, said the same.
So, for those who think that this change won't atract new players, I tell you something: it's already got me.
-And, just by using the data availible to us here, based on sentiments from fellow boards members, for every person the setting now seems to gain, another two or three seem to dislike it, and plan to, or already have disavowed it. Based on that, there doesn't seem to be net gain.
-I told you.
Yeah--I know. I was just so frustrated at the time that the humor didn't sink in.
-As I said, I had no clue on what page he was on. Shortly after you typed your recap of things, I posted something that, more or less, said the same.
I'm aware. Just bringing it to closure. That was his big stick with me--"LK understood me all along...:"
...for every person the setting now seems to gain, another two or three seem to dislike it, and plan to, or already have disavowed it. Based on that, there doesn't seem to be net gain.
Not unexpected. Sentimental attitudes will not be a driver for this. Fresh minds are needed for the experiment.
That was his big stick with me--"LK understood me all along...:"
-Yeah, even after I specifically stated that I had no clue what he was talking about. My last response in that particular back-and-forth was something like, "How did you come to that conclusion?".
-Yeah, even after I specifically stated that I had no clue what he was talking about. My last response in that particular back-and-forth was something like, "How did you come to that conclusion?".
Yeah...but didn't you ask that, like, 12 times?
Not that you matter--I mean, not that it matters.
Not that you matter--I mean, not that it matters.
/points and laughs at LK
...But now that I know that the setting is getting close to destroyed by a spellplague and that it's been advanced a century, everything has changed...
That is a setting that's alive. I can know talk to older players and here about the story of those Forgotten Realms in which there was this and that, and about them playing for certain organization now vanished....
So for a setting to be alive, you have to nuke it? I don't really want to play in a setting that's been devastated or blown up, unless it's a WW2 simulation. :P
/points and laughs at LK
-Oh, you'll pay...
So for a setting to be alive, you have to nuke it?
-Of course not!
So for a setting to be alive, you have to nuke it? I don't really want to play in a setting that's been devastated or blown up, unless it's a WW2 simulation. :P
That or Palladium's After the Bomb (aka Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Other Strangeness RPG).
It's YOUR world, people! Wizards does not hold dominion over your Realms. I have a backstock of dozens, hundreds maybe, of FR sourcebooks from over the years.
Maybe I want to play this 4E FR. Maybe my PCs embark on an adventure, maybe they end up re-forming the Harpers? Maybe this 'spellplague' never even happened.
You are the DM. You are the players. You have ultimate control.
But that's not to say I don't sympathize with the tragedy of it all.
So...I don't want to sound like a stoner here, however!:
It's YOUR world, people! Wizards does not hold dominion over your Realms. I have a backstock of dozens, hundreds maybe, of FR sourcebooks from over the years.
Maybe I want to play this 4E FR. Maybe my PCs embark on an adventure, maybe they end up re-forming the Harpers? Maybe this 'spellplague' never even happened.
You are the DM. You are the players. You have ultimate control.
But that's not to say I don't sympathize with the tragedy of it all.
Sure, but what's the 4e Paragon Path for Jordain Viziers? How about how does the Halruaan Elders' Circle Magic work in 4e? What are the stats for the Halruaan Flying Ships and all those funk doors? What's Halruaan doing right now in 4e? Oh wait, it got blew up. There's no 4e support for Halruaa. So now I've got to take my time and convert what we've been assured is unvconvertible (3.x -> 4e). If I'm gonna take that much time, I might as well create my own world. If I don't have the time to do that, I might as well use someone else's world and not stick with 4e Realms. After all 4e is going to be the only game in town (realistically speaking), so players will become a dwindling resource for a 3.x game as anything other than an occasional one shot adventure.
So...I don't want to sound like a stoner here, however!:
It's YOUR world, people! Wizards does not hold dominion over your Realms. I have a backstock of dozens, hundreds maybe, of FR sourcebooks from over the years.
Maybe I want to play this 4E FR. Maybe my PCs embark on an adventure, maybe they end up re-forming the Harpers? Maybe this 'spellplague' never even happened.
You are the DM. You are the players. You have ultimate control.
But that's not to say I don't sympathize with the tragedy of it all.
-The point is, the setting is being inherently changed in such a way that lessens future fun, regardless of whether or not you transition to 4e or not, or use the 4e Forgotten Realms or not. Remember, here, we discuss canon, unless an alternative is specifically asked for. Thus, to keep in the know, as the 4e transition and all of that is canon, we have to conform to this information in intellectual discussion.
...we have to conform to this information in intellectual discussion.
That is the most unintellectual thing I have heard today. :D
That is the most unintellectual thing I have heard today. :D
-I don't think so. I mean, I just actually read your bander with Ody concerning Aasimar, so...;)
-I don't think so. I mean, I just actually read your bander with Ody concerning Aasimar, so...;)
You're right. That was a highly intellectual conversation. It takes great wit and brainpower to reach that level of enlightenment.
You're right. That was a highly intellectual conversation. It takes great wit and brainpower to reach that level of enlightenment.
Wow, look at you kissing LK Aasimar....
Wow, look at you kissing LK Aasimar....
Nope. I would never think of taking your place in that position, Ody. Just agreeing with his aasimartute observation. ;)
Wow, look at you kissing LK Aasimar....
The infection has spread! Quick stamp it out! Stamp it Out!
The infection has spread! Quick stamp it out! Stamp it Out!
Naw. I sorta like Ody. I just say keep him contained and don't let him out.
Naw. I sorta like Ody. I just say keep him contained and don't let him out.
What?!? Do not tempt me to smite Your aasimar!!!
Calm down, Ody. You'll still get an exercise break. :D
Calm down, Ody. You'll still get an exercise break. :D
And a Cokkie?Being a long time fan (....and financial supporter, thru merchandise purchases) of The Forgotten Realms, honestly....I feel disregarded. Based on my readings of what will be the shell of a world / setting labeled FR 4e.
I'm with you here. it's Sad to say the least
I sure as hell hope you mean "cookie," because I am afraid to ask what a "Cokkie" is. ;)
I'm english impared you smart-aasimar
Which is exactly why I didn't go straight in for the kill. :D
I hate you
And this, all because I said I liked you.
are we ever take anything serious ?I have been reading alot of these posts and with all do respect some people seem to have went off the deep end. I understand it is hard to see the FR change but if you don't like the changes, ignore them. Think of it this way, if someone outside your group who has played or DM'd in the FR setting saw YOUR version of the Realms, they would probably find something they didn't like either and vise versa. As I have said in other posts about this subject, I am looking forward to seeing the changes in the FR setting. Maybe I will not like all of them but at least it has made me interested in the FR again..something I lost midway through 3E.
-And, as I have said, probably to you, since this post looks somewhat familiar, what one does in their own campaign is fine and dandy. They can change whatever they want, and that's that. On the boards, unless specifically mentioned, we discuss the canon. As such, when the canon changes in such a vast magnitude...
Rarely.
-And, as I have said, probably to you, since this post looks somewhat familiar, what one does in their own campaign is fine and dandy. They can change whatever they want, and that's that. On the boards, unless specifically mentioned, we discuss the canon. As such, when the canon changes in such a vast magnitude...
...what? What?
Wait don't tell me.
And the apparent lack of canon outside of two books seem to leave fairly little to discuss in the first place, unless we're talking about 'ancient history'...
And thus the possible death of the 4E Forgotten Realms Forum.
Move along, nothing to discuss here, only two books after all.
And thus the possible death of the 4E Forgotten Realms Forum.
Move along, nothing to discuss here, only two books after all.
Well, if what some people claim to be done with DDI going forward happens, then there will be enough to talk about.
P.S.: I hate the fact that since Wednesday night I have to refresh every link I open about 10 or 12 times to get the info to come up now. This really sucks.
If you can afford it.
P.S.: I hate the fact that since Wednesday night I have to refresh every link I open about 10 or 12 times to get the info to come up now. This really sucks.
Well, also as some would say, you'll be buying it regardless. Thats them--not me.
And, yes, the board is glitchin' big time these days. Though I have seen a definite improvement on my side since they brought it down the other day.
P.S.: I hate the fact that since Wednesday night I have to refresh every link I open about 10 or 12 times to get the info to come up now. This really sucks.
-Oh, good. It's not just me. I thought that the problem was fixed on Thursday, when the boards went down, and that I was experiencing residual glitches, for whatever reason.
-Oh, good. It's not just me. I thought that the problem was fixed on Thursday, when the boards went down, and that I was experiencing residual glitches, for whatever reason.
Behold. I myself, have saved Karsus from going insane once again and decending the Realms into Chaos greater than the Fall of Netheril.
No, no, wait a minute. We just had the Spellplague, I forgot. I just saved the Realms from another Spellplague due to the misfortune of Karsus' near insanity once again.
:D
-Oh, good. It's not just me. I thought that the problem was fixed on Thursday, when the boards went down, and that I was experiencing residual glitches, for whatever reason.
Told ya IT had their hands full.
I'm no longer having issues with anything but trying to preview what I post. Half the time, it simply doesn't load the page for me and I have to go back and try it again--or simply get fed up and submit it. Other than that, everything is working a lot better.
Besides, IE just sux to begin with.
So for a setting to be alive, you have to nuke it? I don't really want to play in a setting that's been devastated or blown up, unless it's a WW2 simulation. :P
You need to advance it a lot.
I don't think (i'm guessing here) that the setting can't feel nearly as alive if an old player that has played FR for the last 18 RW-years says "oh yeah!, the realms used to be an interesting place 2 years ago (ingame years). I remember playing the adventure to clear Myth Drannol, no we have a recently cleared dungeon" as opposed to "oh yeah!, the realms wer really an interesting place 100 years ago, so much has changed since then. I remember clearing Myth Drannol but for what? The nation felt anyway. I wonder what has been of that dungeon since. Hmm, I could use an elf that was there when it was full of demons and then when it was cleared"
I don't know, if you can't see a century advance (or at least half of one) then I don't feel the world that alive. But that's just me, I'm an eberron player.
Meh, I don't think you need to obliterate half a setting to make it alive. Look at Eberron.
I think that by alive people refer to a setting that advances in time. So no, eberron is not alive. Eberron is more like an action snapshot...
In any case, if Eberron was alive you sure as hell would be seen a lot of obliteration.
You need to advance it a lot.
I don't think (i'm guessing here) that the setting can't feel nearly as alive if an old player that has played FR for the last 18 RW-years...
-The ratio for time advancement was one year for every one-and-a-half to two of ours. Being as that there were only, let's say, three sourcebooks, and six novels in a year (until recently), that's a fine passage of time. That amounts to six sourcebooks worth of change/new information per year and twelve novels worth of change/information per year. The world is a big place, and a lot of things happen in a lot of different places.
Don't like Firefox or Mozilla... never had half as many problems with IE though.
-The problems with the pages loading was found to be something embedded in the default background, which has since been changed. But, the new default background is yucky, so I recommend changing it using the little bar on the bottom lefthand side of the page.
Never used the default background, hurts my ancient eyes just looking at it... always used the Parchment and Leather one.
As far as I knew, parchment and leather was the default background.
Or maybe I just got it as a default because I use MOZILLA, which so rox!
I guess I'z beez specialz!!! :D
Though, in your mother-in-laws case, I am willing to guess it's just bad taste.
Give me some maroon!!
Now splash those dots!!
Give me some maroon!!
Now show me what ya got!!
Buh-now-chicka-now-now...
Buh-now-chicka-now-now...