The players in my campaign have made it their personal mission to try wipe out
the Church of Cyric (and Possibly Cyric Himself). Right now they are in a tomb or powerful priestess of Mystra trying to obtain a powerful artifact. My plan was that among many other powers the artifact would have a sort of sentience, as it could show the players what goals it desired.
I guess my lore question is would there be some tattered remain of conscience of Mystra floating around that could be a conduit for such visions or is such a thing not possible? Would artifacts of Mystra even retain their power in the first place after the spell plague?
About your particular situation. If you are in post spellplague part aka after the death of Mystra there sadly ain't any powerful clerics of Mystra left. With her death most of the clergy was insta wiped out with all the magic wards in all the churches blown up and wiped quite a number of it's clergy. All others have lost a lot of their power, including Elminister and the sisters.
On the other hand, if they are in the tomb of a priestess aka dead one, you can send them on your run for a powerful artifact as artifact CAN retain it's magic power. Key word is can, you can change the item properties with the spellplague as you want even do most of magic items retained there normal magical properties.
Lets say you have a Mystra glove that gives you power to cast an extra magic missile. You can change it that it will blow up in your hand on use, or that it will cast 2 extra magic missile's. So it is a DM choise but most cases (cause of simplicity realy) they stay the same.
As for inteligence aka keeping a part of Mystra in the item, I don't see why not. But take into cosideration that no God likes to give a part of him into an item cause it weakens their power so you would have to place a realy good storyline why Mystra would give a part of her concience into an item.
Hope this helps, ofc all I said is open for a debate.
- She resurrected herself in the past.
- Non one subsumed her, nor was her portfolio absorbed by some other deity.
- Many deities, including Mystra, but also including Siamorphe, aren't one individual, but rather, "reincarnations".
- As per Finder's Bane (but it was never substantiated), a deity can be resurrected after death when it's sentience (which is blasted to where ever upon death), and a powerful relic are brought into the Astral Plane, to that deity's petrified body.
-So, all in all, it's plausible for her to come back if a novelist wants her to/a DM wants her to. However, given how Mystra was central to many of the complaints levied against the setting (justly or unjustly, with merit or without merit), I don't see WotC returning her in an official capacity- that would reverse much of what they took pains to eliminate.
Though if it were me running the game (knowing my storytelling aesthetic), then there'd be a twist around around level 20 where--in the PC's last quest before they get to epic level, they bring back Mystra as the conclusion of a great and mighty quest . . . only to have her reborn insane and so evil she makes Shar look like a kewpie doll. Then the focus of epic tier is on fighting the machinations of the NEW Mystra, who has ground the evil deities under her thumb and is intent on destroying the world. Y'know, finally deciding that she's mad as hell, and she's not gonna take it anymore.
:headexplo
But hey, that's me.
Cheers
Midnight's tragical drama story could use a spin like that.
Show
I'd say she is still locked inside the gem above Azuths staff and could escape if Asmodeus can be convinced...
However, let me give you a bit of help. It is alluded to in a novel (I forget which) that Mystra was killed by Cyric via Azuth's staff. Now, to be clear: what actually happened is a mystery. What took place was seen via a vision through a mortals perspective. So it is actually left up to interpretation somewhat.
Now, here is my suggestion: Although Mystra's divine essence was basically ripped apart (hence the explosion of her home plane), both Azuth and his staff survived. What's more a small portion of the divine essence of Mystra has been trapped within the staff.
The staff itself can either be missing (perhaps in the possession of some planar being or still floating through the Astral Sea), or it could have found its way back into the hands of Azuth before he was killed by Asmodeus... meaning that it is now in the hands of Asmodeus himself.
I'd personally go with the staff being in the hands of some planar being... and the epic quest is to find and locate the staff. Which would involve part investigation and a good deal of plane hopping. Have it floating around the Sigil black market or something.
Either way, once the PC's find the staff they'd have to come up with a ritual to resurrect Mystra. Trying to free her divine essence (because it is not whole – it is only a fraction) would just result in it dissipating. Thus, like LK stated I'd have them take the staff to Mystra's corpse in the Astral Sea and conduct the ritual there.
Then, as Erik suggested have her be absolutely nuts once they bring her back.
I'd start out by somehow getting the players to believe a powerful artifact of the Church of Mystra is in the hands of someone in Sigil. They go there, get involved with a black market, forced to do investigation work... do some plane hopping... and ultimately end up with some collector type of individual. Some planar being who is utterly fascinated with Mystra and wants to collect everything related to her. Give him an almost stalker like personality... a little shrine with supposed "divine toenail clippings" and "locks of hair" reportedly belonging to Mystra and the like. Basically, he'd have the artifact the PC's are looking for, but it isn't what they need... and he wouldn't part with it anyway. Although, through questioning, they should eventually be able to find out about the staff. Such a stalker like personality would know everything about his subject, and as such would do almost anything to get his hands on it.
Through the contacts the PC's made in the Sigil black market, they might be able to find a way to get smuggled into Cyric's home plane in order to snag the staff and possibly fight the deity himself. Although, if they are going to do battle with Cyric, I'd hope they'd at least be approaching epic level and have something that would give them an edge against him. Some type of god killing artifact. Maybe crazy Mystra-stalker NPC could have something on that... maybe he's been preparing to send someone to take out Cyric (as revenge!) and get the staff. And thus has been developing the god killing artifact for sometime, something specifically attuned to Cyric.
Of course, the NPC is going to want the staff for himself, so if the PC's reveal their wish to keep it he isn't going to allow it. At all. Meaning they're going to have to steal it from him.
In either event, not only would they have to deal with crazy Mystra, they'd also have to deal with her crazy stalker sending assassins after them for their betrayal. (Either for stealing the artifact or keeping the staff. :P)
"January 25, 2005: Hello, all. Ed answers Elf_Friend:
Regarding dead gods: mortals of Faerûn don’t know the true “current body count,” or where the residue of the divine essence of a dead god lies.
In part, this is because it’s very hard for a god to truly die unless very carefully destroyed by another god: otherwise, if some mortal of Faerûn still worships them or discovers them and starts worshipping them, later (even centuries later), they ‘rise’ again, albeit as almost powerless ghostly awarenesses (at their weakest).
The arguments among churches (about what god did what to which other god) confuse the average inhabitant of the Realms (who to believe?), but I’d say that among humans, most are aware that Bhaal, Iyachtu Xvim, Leira, and Myrkul are ‘dead.’ Only sages and some priests and wizards have even heard of, say, Karsus, and most folk accept that there are countless ‘godlings’ worshipped by various ‘cultists’ here and there across the Realms (from Savras and other half-remembered names to the beast-cults to “those dangerous folk who worship the skeletons of DRAGONS if ye can believe it, aye?”).
So some of them are dead and gone ‘forever’ (although one can then debate just how long ‘forever’ is, of course :}), but most are, as you say, “just dead, ready to be revived thru some epic act or worship.”
So saith Ed, Creator and Supreme Loremaster of the Realms. Also Champion Belcher of Colborne, I trow.
love to all,
THO"
Also:-
"So there’s constant worship going on for almost every divine being, rumored-to-be-divine being, half-forgotten and misremembered godlings... and even slain divine beings linger on as demigods or divine sparks that can “come back” if the right conditions occur. It’s hard to fall from the ranks of demigodhood, once attained: one simply becomes a weaker demigod. Mortals in the Realms are always whispering prayers to “forgotten” gods, in hopes that the grateful deity will give them a lot of aid, swiftly, either out of eagerness to have a new mortal worshipper to command, or simply because they hear and heed the prayer (where a more popular deity may miss or have scant regard for that one prayer, amid the deafening chorus of so many)."
Foreshadowing your new novel are we now? ;)
Ha! No, no--it was just a cool thought that occurred to me for an upcoming Realms campaign I've got brewing. (Shh! Don't tell BRJ! I might beguile him into playing in that campaign.)
A story like that is, as I said, a focus for a whole campaign, rather than a single novel--or probably even a trilogy. Just doing my own "steal this hook", I suppose.
Cheers
Alternatively to the above, since I just re-read your original post, you could have the staff in the hands of Cyric. Let them fight Cyric for it, as that might be more in line with the route you are going.
Interestingly enough, I read "The Crystal Mountain" last week. I don't know if this constitutes as a spoiler, so just in case, highlight for a "minor spoiler": There's a brief passage which mentions Azuth's body, but the staff isn't mentioned as being with him. So it very well could be in Cyric's hands, or anyone's.
El knows this of course, which explains his isolation and timidity when casting spells, The more spells he cast the more chances it is for Cyric to realize who is has become.
Sorry for the tangent,but Erik started it :P
The weave became as Cyric was or is,insane and warped and as the mages called upon the weave they got a glimpse of Cyric's psyche and were overwhelmed(except really high leveled ones). When Cyric was imprisioned it is my belief that his mind became more stable but still warped as he settled in his prison plotting his escape,which explains the way magic is in 4e(wild).
El knows this of course, which explains his isolation and timidity when casting spells, The more spells he cast the more chances it is for Cyric to realize who is has become.
Interesting. I wonder... It seems to me that Cyric, being mad and all, would talk to himself while in his homeplane, seeing as how there's no one else around. El has been said to hear voices in his head when he casts spells. Perhaps he is hearing the whisperings of Cyric, who speaks to himself within the Supreme Throne? And the more spells he casts, the more attuned he becomes to the Black Sun. If Elminster cast too many spells, mayhap Cyric would become so attuned he could use El as a conduit in Toril...;)
Erik that was awesome. I almost picked up Crystal Mountain today. I will tomorrow.
...but so am I, and you made my little black heart flutter at the thought.
Poor Elminster. Everyone just wants to kick the old man while he's down. :P
Seriously though, I'd love that. ;)
----
As to not stray too far off topic, and to tie that line of thinking in with my previous posts... Let's say Cyric has the staff, and Elminster still has a fragment of Mystra's divine essence within him. Since the staff is in Cyric's possession, Cyric's mutterings can be heard by Elminster when he "channels" magic (as it "draws upon" the divine fragment within him).
I'd imagine any campaign surrounding the resurrection of Mystra is going to also require Elminster to be involved on some level... there is a good way to integrate him.
If you want to have your PCs bring back Mystra, there's no reason you can't. It should be the entire focus of the campaign, though--a truly epic task akin to *saving the world*. It could involve an artifact, a chosen one, or perhaps the PCs themselves, who have to *become* the new god/goddess of magic.
Though if it were me running the game (knowing my storytelling aesthetic), then there'd be a twist around around level 20 where--in the PC's last quest before they get to epic level, they bring back Mystra as the conclusion of a great and mighty quest . . . only to have her reborn insane and so evil she makes Shar look like a kewpie doll. Then the focus of epic tier is on fighting the machinations of the NEW Mystra, who has ground the evil deities under her thumb and is intent on destroying the world. Y'know, finally deciding that she's mad as hell, and she's not gonna take it anymore.
:headexplo
But hey, that's me.
Cheers
that would be a twist in it wouldnt it, 1000 years of being tormented by Cyric........ leaves comment unsaid.....
Helm on the otherhand, we know where his essnece is, we just need to know where his body lies and on top of that the rest of any details needed to restore helm.
petition Torm maybe....
You see, first there was Mystryl, who was Chaotic Neutral. She was then killed by the Chaotic Neutral Karsus' folly, causing great damage to the Weave.
Then Mytryl was reborn as Mystra, now a Lawful Neutral deity. In the Time of Troubles, she was killed by the Lawful Neutral Helm, causing once again great damge to the Weave.
And then you had Mystra 2, this time a Neutral Good deity, who eventually got killed, destroying the Weave completely. To continue the cycle, Mystra's next incarnation should technically be Neutral Evil, but after nearly a century, she still hasn't come back. Somehow, I'm thinking it may have something to do with the fact that, for the first time (out of three), her death wasn't caused by someone of her alignment. Perhaps Shar understood the secret of Mystra's reincarnations (as she is, after all, the deity of secrets) and, knowing she wouldn't be a match for an Evil Mystra, manipulated the Chaotic Evil Cyric into causing her death prematurely.
I only posted here because I wanted to comment on eriksdb idea - I like that!
In fact, if you wanted a true 'M. Night Shyamalan-style' twist, you have Shar appear at the end, and say "What have you done?!" Turns out Shar was really the 'good guy' all along.
Now, how to accomplish that with past lore and not screw everything up? Wellllllll... Savras was finally able to pierce the veil of fog clouding future events, and foresaw what Shar (and Cyric) had planned, and warned Mystra. She in-turn set-up a string of contingencies (she IS supposed to be all-powerful in her own domain), and switched places with Shar at the last second!
Cyric actually killed Shar, unbeknowst to him, and Mystra has been masquerading as Shar in order to gain control of all the uber-powerful Mages in places like Thay and Shade. It was all part of some centuries-long plan to fix things and bring magic back under her complete control (she lost a great deal with the Shadoweave).
And now the PCs have gone and F-ed it all up.
Instead of saving the world, your players have doomed it. Kinda mean, but we seem to have similar... tastes... when it comes to torturing our players.
I'd imagine any campaign surrounding the resurrection of Mystra is going to also require Elminster to be involved on some level... there is a good chance of disintegrating him.
What can I say, I smelled subliminal spite...:D
Poor Elminster. Everyone just wants to kick the old man while he's down. :P
Seriously though, I'd love that. ;)
-Given the way he has constantly been written about and portrayed (blah, blah, blah, it's all an act, yada, yada, yada...), he has it coming.
-She, at least, is the sovereign Queen of a nation, and has certain license to do what she deems necessary to protect her nation and her people (validating, to a degree, the asskickery she certain times gives to Thayvians). Elminster, I just don't like him, for many reasons.
I don't mind the Simbul's rampages. If I were in her... well, if I recall, she goes barefoot, so shoes won't work... tattered rags, I'd do the same thing. I just don't like how she goes Dragonball Z on everything and doesn't seem to break a sweat. I'd like someone to at least give her a run for her money before being blown into tiny chunks of Thayan medium well. At least El has shown signs of weakness at times (most noticably in El in Hell, which indicidentally, shows the Simbul curbstomping an entire layer of Baator).
At least El has shown signs of weakness at times (most noticably in El in Hell, which indicidentally, shows the Simbul curbstomping an entire layer of Baator).
Well, let's not forget that El closed the rift between the dimensions beforehands, which was caused by the combination of shadow magic and silver fire, and he accomplished this by spending all his magical might. So, at that time El was probably just as powerful as you or me or Cyric that punk, whereas Mystra herself backed the Simbul up.
Well, let's not forget that El closed the rift between the dimensions beforehands, which was caused by the combination of shadow magic and silver fire, and he accomplished this by spending all his magical might. So, at that time El was probably just as powerful as you or me or Cyric that punk, whereas Mystra herself backed the Simbul up.
Aye, I remember, but in several cases, the Simbul has gone on the warpath through Thay and Baator and never needs to take a breather or recover her spells. She just tears through the ranks of enemies like a hot knife through soft butter. I really think that odds are, with all the Red Wizards she's sent to the grave, at least a few would be able to give her pause; same goes for her stint in Hell. Granted, she did start at full strength in that novel, but she beat the tar out of an exiled archfiend not once but twice, without taking more than a bruise or two. I'm not saying it doesn't take a whole lot to wear down Elminster or the Simbul (I'd be a fool to), but at least we've seen it can be done in El's case. Whereas when Elminster comes out guns blazing (not that such a thing really happens), he paces himself, because he understands the need to not overexpend his strength. Simbul, on the other hand, seems to unload everything she's got from the get-go from a pool that never seems to run dry, no matter how long she stays at it.
Alternatively to the above, since I just re-read your original post, you could have the staff in the hands of Cyric. Let them fight Cyric for it, as that might be more in line with the route you are going. It is perfectly logical that it could be in his hands.
Which could actually make a great mission: Infiltrate Cyric's prison, recover the staff and leave with the staff without being torn to pieces by an enraged Cyric and without letting Cyric escape through your enter/escape point.
If I were in her...
:P
Which could actually make a great mission: Infiltrate Cyric's prison, recover the staff and leave with the staff without being torn to pieces by an enraged Cyric and without letting Cyric escape through your enter/escape point.
And yet Cyric being the annoying pain in the arse that he is would escape anyway. :embarrass
;)
:P
You know what's funny? After I posted that, I looked back and realized I had given the perfect set-up. I thought about editing, but decided it was better as is.:D
That's why I like her. Brazen asskickery of Thay! :D
-It's a real word. Honestly.
Although I think I might save some of these ideas as I my players just try to hack to pieces anyone I have talk to them.
Its sad really.
But it is really good to know that piece of lore.
Make it clear to them that their actions have consequences, just like in real life. If they think they can hack the head off a peasant, and because that peasant and his family are poor they can get away with it...
Just remember, peasants have lords. That lord will either see their actions in one of two ways: they either killed their property or they are harming innocent smallfolk. Regardless of how it is viewed, that lord will seek retribution. Bounty hunters, other adventuring groups, assassins, any number of individuals could come after the group.
Write down the name of every person slain, then try and calculate what retribution will be sought for that death. If they become infamous for their actions, then have merchants shudder up their windows and lock their doors when the PC's show up in town. Have the guards lock the gate to keep them out.
If they are captured, have them stand trial, be found guilty and executed just like any other criminal.
Their actions have consequences. Stress this point, then drive it home through actions of your own.
I should note that campaign I started revolved more around Return Abier, the Court of Rorn, and the Dragon Empire of Skelecor (I think thats how you spell it). It was actually the request of one of my players that I started taking it in this direction. The other players whose characters worship Bane (Although it seem they really don't get bane atm) decided that they wanted Cyric dead also.
The artifact they are after is actually only one piece of it. They got into the mess they are in by stealing the part of it and selling it off. I've never been specific about what the artifact is (I guess I only had a fraction of Idea of what it was my self). But I did want to say that the Court of Rorn wanted it to wake Rorn the Fury. A faction of rebellious Dragons in skelecor wanted it to brake the collars that Green Queen (or whatever she is called) used to control that dragons of that empire. Last but not least the church of Cyric wanted it for non other then freeing Cyric.
The PC's at this point feel they need free Cyric before they can kill him.
I'm Thinking I like all the ideas that have been presented and now I have a little better idea what to do with the story (If I don't get frustrated and TPK my party first). The Staff of Azuth Idea Interest me a lot and I would like use it but I cant really explain why a piece of his staff would be entombed with a long dead cleric of Mystra, especially one that died hundreds of years before the Spell Plague. However, I wonder if it would be too out of bounds to say it was artifact that was scattered by one Mystra's previous incarnations.
Again Thanks for all your help.
They are new to Fourth and somewhat new to the realms.
I can understand why they might be testing the waters, but like Meldread said, you shouldn't let them run wild without tossing a punishment in every so often.
I should note that campaign I started revolved more around Return Abier, the Court of Rorn, and the Dragon Empire of Skelecor (I think thats how you spell it). It was actually the request of one of my players that I started taking it in this direction. The other players whose characters worship Bane (Although it seem they really don't get bane atm) decided that they wanted Cyric dead also.
Might not hurt to encourage them to "get" Bane. I could understand if they're in the ballpark (like "Bane is a deity who demands strength"), but if they're way off, I think a correction's in order. A confrontation with an orthodox cleric of Bane might straighten them up (not a fight, but a harsh indoctrination). Which has me wondering, what are the alignments of your characters? I know the alignment-worship rule is gone (and good riddance), but I find it curious why heroes would be worshipping Bane (or doing a lot of what you've mentioned).
The artifact they are after is actually only one piece of it. They got into the mess they are in by stealing the part of it and selling it off. I've never been specific about what the artifact is (I guess I only had a fraction of Idea of what it was my self). But I did want to say that the Court of Rorn wanted it to wake Rorn the Fury. A faction of rebellious Dragons in skelecor wanted it to brake the collars that Green Queen (or whatever she is called) used to control that dragons of that empire. Last but not least the church of Cyric wanted it for non other then freeing Cyric.
Interesting, but one question: how do the Abeiran factions even know about the artifact? There isn't really much dialogue between RA and the mainland, and the deities of the Realms aren't venerated in RA (unless you changed things around).
The PC's at this point feel they need free Cyric before they can kill him.
Make them regret this decision.
I'm Thinking I like all the ideas that have been presented and now I have a little better idea what to do with the story (If I don't get frustrated and TPK my party first). The Staff of Azuth Idea Interest me a lot and I would like use it but I cant really explain why a piece of his staff would be entombed with a long dead cleric of Mystra, especially one that died hundreds of years before the Spell Plague. However, I wonder if it would be too out of bounds to say it was artifact that was scattered by one Mystra's previous incarnations.
Well, I don't think Mystra could force Azuth to give up a piece of his staff, especially since he only lost it less than a century ago. It's really the "several centuries ago" part that's proving a hindrance to me. Does the cleric have to be Mystra's? Maybe Azuth put the artifact with one of his own clerics, a highly regarded high priest, who protects the artifact still (maybe as an archlich or other such guardian)?
Interesting, but one question: how do the Abeiran factions even know about the artifact? There isn't really much dialogue between RA and the mainland, and the deities of the Realms aren't venerated in RA (unless you changed things around).
There is some trade setup between Faerun and Abier. I even think theirs a slave diplomat from Skelekor who goes around Faerun trying to get trade contracts even. I figure also its the Primordials (and thus the followers) goals to get back at the gods. I'm at work and I dont have FRCG with me but I will be happy get the reference. Though with the PC's on their current path much of that back story has become irrelevant.
Well, I don't think Mystra could force Azuth to give up a piece of his staff, especially since he only lost it less than a century ago. It's really the "several centuries ago" part that's proving a hindrance to me. Does the cleric have to be Mystra's? Maybe Azuth put the artifact with one of his own clerics, a highly regarded high priest, who protects the artifact still (maybe as an archlich or other such guardian)?
They are in the tomb now so I really cant change it (guess thats what I get for not consulting before hand). However I see how I can work with the suggestion and still keep in line with lore a little
Any how, Thanks for the suggestions
There is some trade setup between Faerun and Abier. I even think theirs a slave diplomat from Skelekor who goes around Faerun trying to get trade contracts even. I figure also its the Primordials (and thus the followers) goals to get back at the gods. I'm at work and I dont have FRCG with me but I will be happy get the reference. Though with the PC's on their current path much of that back story has become irrelevant.
I just checked, and it says those envoys are sent to the free lands of Returned Abeir. However, that being said, your take on things is much better.
They are in the tomb now so I really cant change it (guess thats what I get for not consulting before hand). However I see how I can work with the suggestion and still keep in line with lore a little
Any how, Thanks for the suggestions
Glad to have been of service.
Maybe he moved to Thay later?
Hmmm... a Halfling Red Wizard/Tharchion... why does that appeal to me so?
The PC's at this point feel they need free Cyric before they can kill him.
When I read that, I laughed so hard. It started out as an evil little giggle, then grew into a full throated laugh. Oh, please, PLEASE, please let them do it. It should be readily apparent that freeing the god of murder, lies and strife among other things... well, if they think that's a good idea then they're nuts. :D
I am not sure why they think doing that would be a good idea, but if that is the route they want to go: more power to them. They are asking for trouble, and when players go looking for trouble they make your life so much easier. It just means you don't have to think anything up on your own... they do most of your work for you. :P
I'm Thinking I like all the ideas that have been presented and now I have a little better idea what to do with the story (If I don't get frustrated and TPK my party first). The Staff of Azuth Idea Interest me a lot and I would like use it but I cant really explain why a piece of his staff would be entombed with a long dead cleric of Mystra, especially one that died hundreds of years before the Spell Plague. However, I wonder if it would be too out of bounds to say it was artifact that was scattered by one Mystra's previous incarnations.
Why are they in the crypt of a long dead cleric of Mystra? If they went there for plunder... they'd be nuts, again.
Here is my suggestion: When they inevitably start fooling around trying to loot the place, they can disturb the rest of the cleric. If they don't plan on looting the place, give them a little nudge, make remarks about how whomever is buried there appeared to be wealthy. Make remarks about how there are symbols to the dead deity of Mystra in the crypt. Then those characters who'd most likely know (any cleric or wizard in the group, or anyone with a relevant skill), should be made aware that it was common practice for many of Mystra's faithful to be buried with magical artifacts or items.
If that won't get them looting the place, nothing will. However, I'd wager greed will get the better of them. If it doesn't, though, then there is the old fall back of "You do not belong." Which basically means exactly that: they don't belong there, and they've triggered some type of ward.
In any event, if they're looting they trigger the same warding. A ward against grave robbery and intruders. The spirit of the dead cleric "awakens" and moves to confront the PC's. However, the cleric's spirit is insane... in fact, the spirit is tormented.
As it screams at the PC's mostly incoherently, blue mist will begin to flood the chamber. The ancient warding has unleashed a localized version of the Spellplague... which the PC's are now surrounded in...
I'd give them all spellscars, and then have the spirit of the cleric merge with them. The cleric remains insane, but now is part of the PC's with the ability to speak in their minds. Treat this like a Geas placed on the PC's.
The whole point is to have the cleric give them dream visions about what happened to Mystra... and why he is insane. It should be clear to them through the visions that the cleric wants them to begin seeking the staff of Azuth.
Most of the time, the cleric is silent, or simply muttering mostly silently. However, at night (when Shar is most powerful or anytime there is darkness) he begins to panic and scream incoherently about the Staff. So long as the PC's mostly remain on track to obtaining the staff, they can deal with it, either by blocking it out, or trying to reason with it – whatever. On the other hand, if the PC's refuse to aid the spirit, then it becomes so inconsolable that it is impossible for them to rest. If they STILL try and ignore it, even though they cannot really rest, then start applying penalties that would appear due to extreme fatigue.
The key is to avoid rail roading. You simply want to use it to keep the PC's focused on their objective. I'd let them make plenty of detours and what not, but make it clear to them that the spirit is none to happy about it. I'd only smack them with the spirit's annoying no-resting penalty if they begin to completely ignore it or decide not to help.
If they come up with some creative solution to get the spirit out of them, then I'd let them do it. However, it is important to remember that the spirit has merged with them. This is not a normal possession, as it was created by the Spellplague.
I'd use the spirit to give hints to the PC's if they get stuck. Allow him a few very minor lucid moments, where he wonders where he is... and how he got there.
So long as they are working toward getting the staff, it doesn't matter what they do, how they do it, or the means they use to accomplish it... just so long as they are working toward that goal.
When I read that, I laughed so hard. It started out as an evil little giggle, then grew into a full throated laugh. Oh, please, PLEASE, please let them do it. It should be readily apparent that freeing the god of murder, lies and strife among other things... well, if they think that's a good idea then they're nuts. :D
I am not sure why they think doing that would be a good idea, but if that is the route they want to go: more power to them. They are asking for trouble, and when players go looking for trouble they make your life so much easier. It just means you don't have to think anything up on your own... they do most of your work for you. :P
Which is why I'm begging him to do it.
If they really think this is their best bet, let it blow up in their faces. BTW, OP, you may think Meldread and myself are cruel individuals based on the glee we find at this idea. In this case, it's totally justified.;)I just checked, and it says those envoys are sent to the free lands of Returned Abeir. However, that being said, your take on things is much better.
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You're absolutely right, my bad.
Why are they in the crypt of a long dead cleric of Mystra? If they went there for plunder... they'd be nuts, again.
Thats my fault I led them there with a note. Their actually right on the heels of Cleric of Cyric (Black sun adept leveled up with a Cleric template on him) and his band of Goons
Which is why I'm begging him to do it. If they really think this is their best bet, let it blow up in their faces. BTW, OP, you may think Meldread and myself are cruel individuals based on the glee we find at this idea. In this case, it's totally justified.
I absolutely agree. I also think its a way they can appreciate some of the lore in game and remove some of their hubris.
I'm sure it's obvious that I am new to the game my self.
None of us at my table are lore aficionados (except for maybe one player, but he seems to prefer eberron). I do hope to change that soon.
I'm also sure you've all noticed I've been forced to make up alot of this on the fly.
Tangent -- Is Manshoon himself a Cyric worshipper. He is the leader of the Zhents Right? But that doesn't necessarily make him a follower of Cyric does it?
Tangent -- Is Manshoon himself a Cyric worshipper. He is the leader of the Zhents Right? But that doesn't necessarily make him a follower of Cyric does it?
No. Manshoon worshipped Mystra and Azuth prior to his clones going haywire, even if they at times worked against him. He never turned to Bane or Cyric; Bane always annoyed him (thanks to Fzoul) and Cyric just amused him.
That being said, if you want Manshoon to be a Cyricist in your game, he is.
(I am of course speaking about myself in third person.):D