Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Charles_Phipps Jul 07, 2008 23:43:26	Just wanted to get your take? This comic reminded me of the Realms oddly enough. http://www.shortpacked.com/comics/20080613lucy.png
#2 lord_karsus Jul 08, 2008 0:10:39	-Depends on the deity. Shar works through muddled secrets and intermediaries and so on, while Ghaunadaur appears to those who beseech his power- they don't even have to worship it. -So, again, it depends...
#3 Therise Jul 08, 2008 0:52:35	Just wanted to get your take? In the novels / canon storyline, some FR deities intervene a lot. Partially, though, it depends on how you're defining intervention. Direct appearance of avatars, or just dreams and portents, or somewhere in the middle. Frankly, in the novels, I'd like a lot less direct intervention. They're just a little -too- present. And hence, in my own campaigns the FR deities pretty much never intervene. At most, even dreams and portents happen infrequently, and the gods are relatively inscrutable (except for the tenets of each deity's faith). Even if they're high enough level to go visit the deity's plane, getting to see an actual deity (even a truly minor one) is negligible.
#4 lord_karsus Jul 08, 2008 1:02:43	-Also, note that because they seem to do it a lot in novels doesn't mean that they do it a lot, in actuality. Analyzing a microcosm of the total population (that is, those in novels, versus the entire population, since the first amoeba split in two) is going to give you a skewed result.
#5 Therise Jul 08, 2008 1:17:39	-Also, note that because they seem to do it a lot in novels doesn't mean that they do it a lot, in actuality. Analyzing a microcosm of the total population (that is, those in novels, versus the entire population, since the first amoeba split in two) is going to give you a skewed result. But here's the important question: did the ameobic deities predate the primoridals? That's what I want to know. :P
#6 Stigger Jul 08, 2008 1:40:30	As much as I say they do as a DM. Which isn't much at all... and certainly not in the ways I've heard described in novels. A part of why I don't read them too often really... among others.
#7 alediran Jul 08, 2008 9:02:38	Gods in FR are forbidden to act directly, that's why they have to use all that network of planar and mortal beings to carry with their plans. And that is perfect for an RPG because it gives DMs a very powerful tool. Gods like Eberron's are to bland and almost unimportant.
#8 alediran Jul 08, 2008 9:07:54	Double Post.
#9 lord_karsus Jul 08, 2008 10:29:28	But here's the important question: did the ameobic deities predate the primoridals? That's what I want to know. :P -I'm still not 100% sure how Primordials will be injected into the Forgotten Realms, but I am going to say yes. Ghaunadaur is one of the most ancient deities in Realmspace.
#10 jiggawha_dup Jul 08, 2008 10:31:52	I don't think they are forbidden they are very interventionist comparing other settings, that's ok, what I don't like, and that I've changed is that they're behind any belief and philosophy so I like FR and Ebberon (and PS) mixed in this matter
#11 alediran Jul 08, 2008 12:25:09	They are prohibited by AO's law. They must act throught avatars and proxies.
#12 calabask Jul 08, 2008 13:03:16	The gods can intervene indrectly Show Much like Mask did in the book Realms of War by sending Varra to the field of flowers that can grant wishes when she was being chased by the shadows from the Shadowstorm.
#13 Stigger Jul 08, 2008 13:51:55	Acting though an avatar is about the same thing as acting themselves... technically perhaps a lesser form, but I'd say it still qualified as direct divine action for the most part.
#14 alediran Jul 08, 2008 13:59:47	Yes, but avatars have other problems, they can be captured and destroyed, weakening the god who made them. A group of Sharran priest was able to capture one of Mystra's avatars during the 3rd Elminster book and used it to get arcane magic for themselves. That's why it's dangerous to send avatars except for the most dire missions.
#15 atticuseternal Jul 08, 2008 14:08:51	I'd say that it's up to the DM. But in novels, the gods are very active (in different ways according to each deity). And yes, the avatars of the gods frequent the Realms quite often.
#16 Stigger Jul 08, 2008 14:20:48	Amusingly I was rather under the impression that Mystra allowed that to happen when I read that... as to being dangerous, well, safer than sending in your whole being and getting killed permanently, no? :P Beyond that, why have worshippers, clergy, and minions if you do everything for them... more fun for them to interfere as little as possible. I've nothing against manifestations to encourage, warn, or congratulate the PCs for their actions, but if you're involving avatars as anything but foes for high-to-epic level games, then you're probably doing something wrong would be my take on things.
#17 alediran Jul 08, 2008 14:48:38	One of Mystra's avatars did appeared in a way that wasn't as a high-to-epic foe, to save the lives of the Harpers at Twilight during the Weeping War.
#18 fire_wraith Jul 08, 2008 14:52:49	This tends to vary greatly based on whom you ask - or what novel or sourcebook authors you look at. Some portray very involved, very hands-on Gods, while others don't. In my games, I prefer keeping it light at best - ie, signs, signals, and portents, rather than hopping in for tea with the high priest each day.
#19 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Jul 08, 2008 19:32:50	Just wanted to get your take? I go with something like Ed Greenwood's take--they send dream visions to people and occasionally manifest (though not usually in the form of an avatar), but overall they work through their followers.
#20 rinonalyrna_fathomlin Jul 08, 2008 19:34:01	In the novels / canon storyline, some FR deities intervene a lot. Partially, though, it depends on how you're defining intervention. Direct appearance of avatars, or just dreams and portents, or somewhere in the middle. Frankly, in the novels, I'd like a lot less direct intervention. They're just a little -too- present. I agree with that. I think it comes down to the (often faulty) notion that in novels, "big stuff" has to happen.
#21 rauric Jul 09, 2008 0:10:38	They interfere too much and work their way into every plot of every novel it seems. That is why I stopped reading most of them. I loved Kemps book on Cale but even that is getting too epic. I am curious how they are handled in 4E. I hope they are tone back alot and no more novels with them as "the stars". I actually prefer the gods in Eberron just because they most likely exist but people are not 100% sure if they really exist, and since they don't dwell on the planes and can never be found is rather nice because power gamers don't have to focus their whole time on killing them.:D This does not mean I want FR deities to suddenly vanish and still grant spells or powers. I hope they are handled a bit more mysteriously than they have been in the last few years.
#22 lord_karsus Jul 09, 2008 11:33:54	They interfere too much and work their way into every plot of every novel it seems. That is why I stopped reading most of them. I loved Kemps book on Cale but even that is getting too epic. I am curious how they are handled in 4E. I hope they are tone back alot and no more novels with them as "the stars". -Every novel? Not really. Not even in every "major" trilogy. Hell, you cited Erevis Cale...How active are Shar and Mask in The Twilight War trilogy? They are working through their proxies, as deities do, but neither has any major role as a 'character' in the books. -Once you get away from the "major" stories, and get into the stand-alone novel territory, things are a lot different.