When are they just going to admit, they, WoTC, want nothing to do with us long time Realms fans
Fight!! Fight into the dying of the light!!!
Unfortunatly, WotC is a buisness, and their primary function is to be profitable. I understand what their trying to do, but I agree that it seems to be geared more for new players rather than the long timers. Their probably between a rock and a hard place, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it either.
I will never accept this idea that they have to slap us in the face in order to attract new players. I thought Eberron was for the "new" player. I take it Everron has failed then at that.
Unfortunatly, WotC is a buisness, and their primary function is to be profitable. I understand what their trying to do, but I agree that it seems to be geared more for new players rather than the long timers. Their probably between a rock and a hard place, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it either.
Personally, I still can't see how this "new players" perspective comes in. At least, in my perspective, I've always been drawn into new worlds by those who were true D&D'ers that liked to dabble in other worlds. And, even then, we always knew that D&D was still king.
If these people drop D&D, what good does that do?
...
And, yea, Karsus--I'm irate. I best check myself. ;)
I will never accept this idea that they have to slap us in the face in order to attract new players. I thought Eberron was for the "new" player. I take it Everron has failed then at that.
I was not trying to justify WotC's idea for attracting new players, I was just trying to see it from their pov. I agree, I don't think it is the best way either. I don't know the best way to do it, but I do know that upsetting your loyal base of long timers is not the best way to do it.
-The reason for the six sections being smooshed into one has nothing to do with the 4e Realms, just so you know. This is the culmination of something that began around a year ago, the 'Gleemax' was launched. The quota is about 50 active threads per 24 hours. In total, the Forgotten Realms section had about 30-35 or so. So, since it didn't make the quote, six mildly used sections were merged into one massivley used section. It's all to save bandwith, and to incorporate all of the Gleemax and 4e stuff.
Which means that they stiff those others trying to get on.
I have yet to hear of a good way to clamp down on bandwidth, so I find this a bit odd. The only way to do it is to alienate those that aren't persistent.
Or, to simply take a good guess at the bandwidth, which, if so, will blow up in their face--as you suggested earlier when 4e FR actually comes out.
Which means that they stiff those others trying to get on.
-I don't think so. If I am interpreting you correctly, new people, literally, won't know what they are missing. We used to have a Forgotten Realms Novel section, where we could talk exclusivley about novels, and how we felt about them. Authors regularly joined us in our discussions, especially Mrs. Cunningham. Those forums were erased a long time before you joined the boards. Would you say that you were "stiffed"?
-Mind you, I might be interpreting you incorrectly.
I have yet to hear of a good way to clamp down on bandwidth, so I find this a bit odd. The only way to do it is to alienate those that aren't persistent.
Or, to simply take a good guess at the bandwidth, which, if so, will blow up in their face--as you suggested earlier when 4e FR actually comes out.
-Concerning bandwith, the idea is that, by consolidating all of the places that barely have regular traffic, no regular traffic, or mild regular traffic, into "super sized" threads with a lot of traffic, they don't have to worry about maintaining those "ghost town" threads. And, you ever take a look at some of them? Some of them are/were pretty pitiful. There'd be like four posts in a section, and the newest one would be months old.
Not much more actually.
Plus, combat will work totally differently and it would be difficult to explain the change in tactics without saying that every martial type character has suddenly begun studying the Way of Nine Swords.
I'd like to know what happened to all of the previously established Realms characters in the past hundred years, but other than that I don't really see too much of a problem with the change.
Martial Stuff... have Tempus go into semi-retirement and let Red Knight step up to take over the family business as it were, taking things in a bold new direction.
Magic Stuff... Mystra decides that in an effort to weaken Shar and the Shadow Weave, she's going to alter the way magic works to dangle a few carrots in front of casters to bring them over to her side of the fence to create the whole Arcane power source thing, and finally reveals the universal spell component alluded to in VGtaTM.
Shadow Stuff... Shar does likewise and we get the whole Shadow power source thingy updated.
Rogue Stuff... Mask gets in on the act to keep Shar from getting into too dominant a position on him, maybe ganks Cyric and brings back Leira as an ally in his camp.
Cleric Stuff... by-product of the new Weave v4.0
Easy, brave new world, no need for non-sensical retcons, and we can even tone down the NPC's as they get used to the way things work now, levelling the playing field a wee bit. And that just took a few minutes of off-the-cuff thought... which I hope doesn't show too much. :D
Could have accomplished all that without the pantheon nuking and only 10 years...
Martial Stuff... have Tempus go into semi-retirement and let Red Knight step up to take over the family business as it were, taking things in a bold new direction.
Magic Stuff... Mystra decides that in an effort to weaken Shar and the Shadow Weave, she's going to alter the way magic works to dangle a few carrots in front of casters to bring them over to her side of the fence to create the whole Arcane power source thing, and finally reveals the universal spell component alluded to in VGtaTM.
Shadow Stuff... Shar does likewise and we get the whole Shadow power source thingy updated.
Rogue Stuff... Mask gets in on the act to keep Shar from getting into too dominant a position on him, maybe ganks Cyric and brings back Leira as an ally in his camp.
Cleric Stuff... by-product of the new Weave v4.0
Easy, brave new world, no need for non-sensical retcons, and we can even tone down the NPC's as they get used to the way things work now, levelling the playing field a wee bit. And that just took a few minutes of off-the-cuff thought... which I hope doesn't show too much. :D
exactly. They didn't have to do this jump. They didn't have to destroy half od the setting
It seems to me that the realms have been updated primarily in order to justify the new rules material, such as the new races and classes. It would suck if they just retconned everything to say that some elves were actually Eladrin the whole time and gnomes were really just Dragonborn larvae or something.
-This is, of course, what is happening. Not the Gnome/Dragonborn thing, though. They are just magically appearing via heavy-handed addition of a brand new locale into the setting.
Plus, combat will work totally differently and it would be difficult to explain the change in tactics without saying that every martial type character has suddenly begun studying the Way of Nine Swords.
-That's what happened from 1e to 2e, and from 2e, to 3e.
-Mind you, I might be interpreting you incorrectly.
You did. I was speaking of bandwidth the whole way through. ;)
It's struck me a number of times that 4E basically makes it much easier to adapt D&D to computer games. Hmm.
Interesting take on things.
D&D (2E, 3E, 3.5) is direly unsuited to video games. Even a non-MMO like NWN2 adapts it somewhat poorly; at epic levels, it's downright godawful. D&D is best when it's turn-based, and to date only Temple of Elemental Evil has done that. But hey, if there's a NWN3 using 4E rule, or Stormreach 2 using the same, they'll... be a lot more like WoW. Hooray?
-That's what happened from 1e to 2e, and from 2e, to 3e.
Yeah, that's a good point. I admit I'm getting tired of defending this thing before it even comes out. Maybe it will suck. I hope it doesn't. But if it does, I probably won't allow dragonborn or tieflings in my games and stick with the old Realms setting.
I dunno. As much as I enjoy the idea of a Realms-shattering cataclysmic event, the Spellplague seems kind of lame. I still think it's necessary to give the developers a clean slate for the new rules, but causing mass destruction then skipping a century or two does seem a bit heavy-handed.
I guess I'll have to see the actual books before I make my decision.
But hey, if there's a NWN3 using 4E rule, or Stormreach 2 using the same, they'll... be a lot more like WoW. Hooray?
I'm definitely up for a NWN3 with 4th edition rules. And, in fact, I think the new Realms is better suited towards a video game than a real RPG.
Think of Stormreach. As an MMORPG, it seems to be tiding by, but it's not a hit. Never mind competing with Blizzard; it doesn't even compete with, say, LOTOR Online. It's a niche title that doesn't support the kind of gameplay MMO gamers take for granted. Being party oriented, it doesn't have much of a lure for solo gamers, at least not during the early months I tried it out: you can't recover hitpoints easily as a non-healer, and a healer can't kill things on his/her own easily, so you're forced to team up. Using D&D skill types, it has no crafting, and no crafting means no player economy. There's not even any player-versus-player combat, but that's less a D&D-specific fault and more Turbine's. Stormreach appeals to no one but people who are already familiar with (and preferably like) D&D.
D&D (2E, 3E, 3.5) is direly unsuited to video games. Even a non-MMO like NWN2 adapts it somewhat poorly; at epic levels, it's downright godawful. D&D is best when it's turn-based, and to date only Temple of Elemental Evil has done that. But hey, if there's a NWN3 using 4E rule, or Stormreach 2 using the same, they'll... be a lot more like WoW. Hooray?
I would like to point out that the old Dark Sun games (Shattered Lands and it's sequel Wake of the Ravager) had turn based combat.
Oh and as someone who has played *a lot* of WoW (since beta, high end raid guild pre-Burning Crusade, some entry level raiding post-BC after canceling his account for the, um, second time), in addition to having played D&D for 14 years now, I see very few similarities between WoW and 4th Edition, Realms or no Realms.
You know...back in the day..when I use to do this RPG thing as a kid. We would create our own worlds...who wants to live in someone elses when you could live in yours?
'cause someone elses might be really really cool
You did. I was speaking of bandwidth the whole way through. ;)
-Ah. Well, what I said is still relevant!
I still think it's necessary to give the developers a clean slate for the new rules, but causing mass destruction then skipping a century or two does seem a bit heavy-handed.
I guess I'll have to see the actual books before I make my decision.
-Again, there are plenty of alternative reasons that are quite easy to come up with that involve the current metaplot, is fairly organic in relation to what was already happening, and adequatly explains various changes. For example, the multiple things Stig listed.
-Ah. Well, what I said is still relevant!
But, of course. Though I do have to keep you on your toes now and then. :D
Could have accomplished all that without the pantheon nuking and only 10 years...
Martial Stuff... have Tempus go into semi-retirement and let Red Knight step up to take over the family business as it were, taking things in a bold new direction.
Rogue Stuff... Mask gets in on the act to keep Shar from getting into too dominant a position on him, maybe ganks Cyric and brings back Leira as an ally in his camp.
Even then, none of that is really necessary. There's no actual need to explain a "Martial Power Source". Characters in books always did those sorts of things, anyway. There's no need to juggle Tempus and Red Knight to invent a reason for why Fighters can swing their sword twice and hit two guys or whatever. They always did that. The only difference, now, is that the mechanics better reflect the things that Fighters and other warriors in novels have been doing for years.
Magic Stuff... Mystra decides that in an effort to weaken Shar and the Shadow Weave, she's going to alter the way magic works to dangle a few carrots in front of casters to bring them over to her side of the fence to create the whole Arcane power source thing, and finally reveals the universal spell component alluded to in VGtaTM.
Yeah, they could've come up with any number of reasons to explain the changes to magic, none of which involved permanently killing off Mystra. Mystra, for instance, could've simply decided to change the rules on her own. Much in the same way that Kelemvor changed the rules of death (and changed them again when he got better at his job), Mystra could've decided to change things up. Magic still has to be openly available to anyone who wants it, but beyond that, she can do whatever she likes. So if after 14 years as the Goddess of Magic she decided that magic would work better another way, then she can make it work that way.
Another possibility is keeping Cyric's assassination attempt, but not making Mystra an idiot about it. Plenty of powerful Wizards have contingencies in place in case they die. If Manshoon, a Level 19 Wizard, can avoid death, then certainly the Goddess of Magic can dodge death with a contingency. So Cyric kills her, as before, but like the incident with Karsus, she resurrects moments later. There's momentary chaos as the Weave shuts down for an instant, but when she comes back, the Weave reforms, albeit in a different shape, causing magic to work differently.
Whatever the case, yeah, there really wasn't any need to kill off Mystra for good.
Another possibility is keeping Cyric's assassination attempt, but not making Mystra an idiot about it. Plenty of powerful Wizards have contingencies in place in case they die. If Manshoon, a Level 19 Wizard, can avoid death, then certainly the Goddess of Magic can dodge death with a contingency. So Cyric kills her, as before, but like the incident with Karsus, she resurrects moments later. There's momentary chaos as the Weave shuts down for an instant, but when she comes back, the Weave reforms, albeit in a different shape, causing magic to work differently.
With the contingency thing, I can see how that can be negated. She died on her home plane. Therefore, she is dead dead. Therefore, magic died with her. Therefore, her contingency spell went poof!
I completely agree, of course. I think snuffing her out may have been tied to a reason for why The Chosen were snuffed, as well.
Drow PC -- "what has become of my beloved Eilistraee?"
Magic using PC -- "Mystra dead and the weave destroyed? I'll have to start using swords more while I figure out how to cast in this dark and terrible future, if only there were some other core class I could dabble in in the mean time, some sort of class for a mage who uses swords?"
these are just examples, im sure other people might be better at RPing then me.
Thats the problem.
No spellplague, no nerfing wizards, and no conan the barbarian game worlds with a dash of WoWzers.
Lets see how is it like WoW. Hmmm......maybe the Solo (deep booming god voice) creatures? Gee I think WoWzers has exceedingly powerful creatures that require many poweful characters to overcome. How bout the poor cuddly wuddly orcs who are simply misunderstood demon influenced creatures? (Think Tannurakk and Obould) Ooopsy! I could go on yet why bother since it has all been stated before. I mean obviously no influence what....so....eveeeerrrrrrr.
I especially hate the solo (deep booming god voice) creatures design so that more DMs can be POWER GAMERZzzzzzz. Yeah....great....thanks. It is funny how sooooo many DMs complain about POWER GAMERZzzzz while seeking to be such themselves. Lame-o change-o! I would like my PC to actually be somewhat capable against same level or near level NPCs, monsters. Somewhat equivalent to such. I guess I will have to add five times the hit points and other things so I can have a solo (deep booming god voice) PC and be a POWER GAMERzzzzz to feel as if I have some point being a "hero" instead of a zero.
I really could do without the whole rainbows and butterflys "evil" (really just misunderstood) creatures. Not to mention the new LG CE yet not CG LE alignement system. I mean there is noooo difference between a NE and LE creature! Woot Woot! Raaa! Raaa! cheer like crazzzy for LG G Unaligned E CE alignment system............yay.
Now Manshoon is Evil instead of Lawful Evil (though he always seemed NE or CE to me in the novels) and Devils are Evil as well (though once again most portrayed them as NE or CE), etc. So I guess it makes sense since no one can figure out how LE works! Real evil is....evil or CE while real good is...good or LG. Basically Law (should be Order) is "good" while chaos is "evil". Simple minded sillyness to the eXtreMe.
Still as long as I get my floating enclave I will be happy.......now how did that spell go......(Yes I LOVE Fizban from Dragon Lance).
The time jump has a lot of opportunity to be awesome and it frustrates me that people are getting hung up on pantheon changes.
Why are you frustrated about the fact that other people have different preferences than you do? The people you speak of have the right not to like the new Realms.
However, I do think that stone statue idea of yours was pretty neat.
It's not just about the roleplaying, my man. Its the love of the setting itself. You can easily twist things for your game and do anything, but the ongoing story, regions and characters we loved are no longer around.
Thats the problem.
what regions are gone? Halruua exploded (most children of the realms couldn't even find it on the map!), and the Sea of Fallen Stars drained fifty feet. Waterdeep, Cormyr, Myth Drannor, the dale lands and tons of other places people loved to put quest NPCs are still there.
Drizzt, Entreri (probably), and probably the Chosen are mostly still alive, people whined about them often enough that I wouldn't doubt they killed a few off to throw a bone to them. Those people must run settings where a little red light comes on in a character's hand when they hit epic levels "no! I had 2 more levels to go! where are you taking me? NOOOO"
It is still the same setting. Characters are (usually) mortal. I hadn't seen the Knights of Myth Drannor getting in any recent adventures, why? They were getting old. I'm sure they have their legacy written somewhere in the world of 1479. the realms of today are coming out of a cataclysm much like the realms of 3rd edition and that whole Avatar Crisis hiccup. It is times such as this that heroes are needed.
That said...
what regions are gone? Halruua exploded (most children of the realms couldn't even find it on the map!), and the Sea of Fallen Stars drained fifty feet. Waterdeep, Cormyr, Myth Drannor, the dale lands and tons of other places people loved to put quest NPCs are still there.
Yes, they are, but they are no longer the same. Will some remain the same? Sure. Others? No. Was I ever a big fan of Thay? No. Do I know people that were? Yes. Do they like it now? Probably not.
Flavor has changed for such regions.
Drizzt, Entreri (probably), and probably the Chosen are mostly still alive, people whined about them often enough that I wouldn't doubt they killed a few off to throw a bone to them. Those people must run settings where a little red light comes on in a character's hand when they hit epic levels "no! I had 2 more levels to go! where are you taking me? NOOOO"
Drizzt, yes. Entreri, no. R.A. has already said he is looking forward to establishing new characters.
The Chosen? Mostly alive, but stuck in El's head.
It is still the same setting.
Yes and no. And its the "no" part that has certain people mad.
Lets see how is it like WoW. Hmmm......maybe the Solo (deep booming god voice) creatures? Gee I think WoWzers has exceedingly powerful creatures that require many poweful characters to overcome. How bout the poor cuddly wuddly orcs who are simply misunderstood demon influenced creatures? (Think Tannurakk and Obould) Ooopsy! I could go on yet why bother since it has all been stated before. I mean obviously no influence what....so....eveeeerrrrrrr.
I especially hate the solo (deep booming god voice) creatures design so that more DMs can be POWER GAMERZzzzzzz. Yeah....great....thanks. It is funny how sooooo many DMs complain about POWER GAMERZzzzz while seeking to be such themselves. Lame-o change-o! I would like my PC to actually be somewhat capable against same level or near level NPCs, monsters. Somewhat equivalent to such. I guess I will have to add five times the hit points and other things so I can have a solo (deep booming god voice) PC and be a POWER GAMERzzzzz to feel as if I have some point being a "hero" instead of a zero.
Uh... huh... So before the advent of 4E, PC groups never fought single monsters... ever? Isn't a Challenge Rating 1 monster supposed to be a challenge for your average party of 1st-level PC's?
And PC's are capable against same-level creatures. There're different categories. There're Solo monsters, which're a challenge for five PC's, Elite monsters, which're a challenge for two PC's, Standard Monsters, which're a challenge for a single PC, and Minions, four of which are a challenge for a single PC. All of that is designed to make it easier for the DM to provide a balanced encounter for the PC's and provide a little variety at the same time. So where's the problem in that?
I will never accept this idea that they have to slap us in the face in order to attract new players.
Slap us??
Speak for yourself, please.
I certainly don't like everything WotC is doing (Spellmarks or whatever the hell they're called = poor, poor design decision; not happening in my 4E FR campaign, whatever form it takes), but that feeling doesn't mean it's OK -much less a good idea- to go bonkers about it and engaging in textbook examples of hyperbole.
I'm a Realms DM. I like the Realms. But I'm not self-centered or naive enough to think WotC has the time and budget to focus on making me mad.
Give me new toys to play with. Try new things. If I don't like it, my wallet will speak for me.
The Chosen? Mostly alive, but stuck in El's head.
Where'd you read that the Chosen were stuck in El's head? I heard about entities being trapped in his head, but not specifically the Chosen.
Slap us??
Like this? Sure!
Uh... huh... So before the advent of 4E, PC groups never fought single monsters... ever? Isn't a Challenge Rating 1 monster supposed to be a challenge for your average party of 1st-level PC's?
And PC's are capable against same-level creatures. There're different categories. There're Solo monsters, which're a challenge for five PC's, Elite monsters, which're a challenge for two PC's, Standard Monsters, which're a challenge for a single PC, and Minions, four of which are a challenge for a single PC. All of that is designed to make it easier for the DM to provide a balanced encounter for the PC's and provide a little variety at the same time. So where's the problem in that?
Missing the point. In previous editions my PC could take on a nearly or same "power" NPC or monster singlehandedly (though some few creatures were exceptions to this) and have a real nockdown and drag out fight for my character. I have in 3.xe fought as a single PC an NPC or monster and either won or lost while a party of four PCs could take said NPC or monster down without anyone dieing. Dice rolls, strategies, immunities, resistences, etc could change this of course yet no single creature had five times the normal creatures hit points. Such creatures would wreck my lone PC.
Alright say my fighter of 8th lvl is figting an orc of similiar lvl now my fighter has a good chance if they are similiar in abilities of slaying the orc and vice versa. Now imagine faceing stated orc with five times the hp it had plus additional abilities. Now do you see my point?
If they are stating that one PC is the same as a solo creature of camparative abilities then that is fine. However I doubt this is the case and so just like the powerful creatures in the WoW computer game it will take multiple PCs to take one down.
No thanks I like my DnD were my PC is able to be in many cases similiar if not exact in ability and potential to NPCs and monsters. Of course under certain conditions and verse some creatures this was not true. Those creatures specifically designed to be difficult for a given class to overcome or even classes designed for such.
I just hope I am wrong.
Uh... huh... So before the advent of 4E, PC groups never fought single monsters... ever? Isn't a Challenge Rating 1 monster supposed to be a challenge for your average party of 1st-level PC's?
And PC's are capable against same-level creatures. There're different categories. There're Solo monsters, which're a challenge for five PC's, Elite monsters, which're a challenge for two PC's, Standard Monsters, which're a challenge for a single PC, and Minions, four of which are a challenge for a single PC. All of that is designed to make it easier for the DM to provide a balanced encounter for the PC's and provide a little variety at the same time. So where's the problem in that?
Missing the point. In previous editions my PC could take on a nearly or same "power" NPC or monster singlehandedly (though some few creatures were exceptions to this) and have a real nockdown and drag out fight for my character. I have in 3.xe fought as a single PC an NPC or monster and either won or lost while a party of four PCs could take said NPC or monster down without anyone dieing. Dice rolls, strategies, immunities, resistences, etc could change this of course yet no single creature had five times the normal creatures hit points. Such creatures would wreck my lone PC.
Alright say my fighter of 8th lvl is figting an orc of similiar lvl now my fighter has a good chance if they are similiar in abilities of slaying the orc and vice versa. Now imagine faceing stated orc with five times the hp it had plus additional abilities. Now do you see my point?
If they are stating that one PC is the same as a solo creature of camparative abilities then that is fine. However I doubt this is the case and so just like the powerful creatures in the WoW computer game it will take multiple PCs to take one down.
No thanks I like my DnD were my PC is able to be in many cases similiar if not exact in ability and potential to NPCs and monsters. Of course under certain conditions and verse some creatures this was not true. Those creatures specifically designed to be difficult for a given class to overcome or even classes designed for such.
I just hope I am wrong.
Where'd you read that the Chosen were stuck in El's head? I heard about entities being trapped in his head, but not specifically the Chosen.
I read it after I wrote it, actually.
Pretty interesting piece. There was a link I could have given you on what was discussed, but, with what just happened, I consider it lost.
I simply have my own theory on the Chosen and what is currently happening to El'.
I read it after I wrote it, actually.
Pretty interesting piece. There was a link I could have given you on what was discussed, but, with what just happened, I consider it lost.
I simply have my own theory on the Chosen and what is currently happening to El'.
Understood.
I'm a Realms DM. I like the Realms. But I'm not self-centered or naive enough to think WotC has the time and budget to focus on making me mad.
I do not believe that WoTC has decided to make longtime realms fans mad, but I do feel they have decided to ignore us (or perhaps take us for granted)in an attempt to grab new players
Missing the point. In previous editions my PC could take on a nearly or same "power" NPC or monster singlehandedly (though some few creatures were exceptions to this)
So which creatures are the exception? And if there are such creatures, then clearly the notion that this is new to 4E isn't accurate, is it?
and have a real nockdown and drag out fight for my character. I have in 3.xe fought as a single PC an NPC or monster and either won or lost while a party of four PCs could take said NPC or monster down without anyone dieing. Dice rolls, strategies, immunities, resistences, etc could change this of course yet no single creature had five times the normal creatures hit points. Such creatures would wreck my lone PC.
There're monsters in the MM, now, which would wreck a lone PC. The idea, here, is to give DM's the tools to provide various kinds of encounters. If they want a fight against one big monster then they have that option. If they want a fight against hordes of bad guys then they also have that option. So I ask again, where's the problem in that?
Alright say my fighter of 8th lvl is figting an orc of similiar lvl now my fighter has a good chance if they are similiar in abilities of slaying the orc and vice versa. Now imagine faceing stated orc with five times the hp it had plus additional abilities. Now do you see my point?
Except that most Orcs won't be Solo Monsters. They'll be Standard Monsters, which as I've said, are supposed to be a challenge for PC's of their level.
If they are stating that one PC is the same as a solo creature of camparative abilities then that is fine. However I doubt this is the case and so just like the powerful creatures in the WoW computer game it will take multiple PCs to take one down.
And you've never, ever, in any D&D game, fought a monster which was to tough for one individual PC, or very nearly to tough for the whole party? How often have you fought a dragon which could be taken down by one PC? Or a Beholder? Because that's what Solo Monsters are. You're claiming WoWification when WoW isn't the originator of the idea of the 'BBEG'. D&D's been doing it for years, before. Hell, not even D&D is the originator of the 'BBEG'. The concept of an evil so great that it takes more then one person to take on is beyond old.
No thanks I like my DnD were my PC is able to be in many cases similiar if not exact in ability and potential to NPCs and monsters.
If that's the kind of game you want then Standard Monsters and Minions are what you're looking for.
what regions are gone? Halruua exploded (most children of the realms couldn't even find it on the map!), and the Sea of Fallen Stars drained fifty feet.
I feel most children of the realms could find it on a map. However, halruaa is the least of my concerns. Other casualties such as Sembia and Chessenta I will mourn more. Plus, the Eberron wannabe lands are dumb.
Drizzt, Entreri (probably), and probably the Chosen are mostly still alive,
we know Drizzt is, but it is unlikely that Enteri is. I would think most of the chosen are gone since there is no Mystra any more.
It is still the same setting.
It is far from the same setting. They have created a completely new world that just happens to have some of the same names. We are being force fed dragonborn and Changelands and lord knows what other nonsense. But is certainly not the Realms
I do not believe that WoTC has decided to make longtime realms fans mad, but I do feel they have decided to ignore us (or perhaps take us for granted)in an attempt to grab new players
True--to a degree. I assume that they meant for most of us to follow along as well. They will do what is being done until it is sure that sales are dropping, then not going to rise again. Then, they may, dig back into the arsenal and try to fix things.
True--to a degree. I assume that they meant for most of us to follow along as well. They will do what is being done until it is sure that sales are dropping, then not going to rise again. Then, they may, dig back into the arsenal and try to fix things.
I agree. Thats why I said "take us fro granted". I just hope the 4e "Realms" bombs big time, so maybe we can get our setting back
I just hope the 4e "Realms" bombs big time, so maybe we can get our setting back
We'll get nothing back. So, I do hope it succeeds--and not just for marketing or opinion--but so all us 3ed people can actually get into it.
We'll get nothing back. So, I do hope it succeeds--and not just for marketing or opinion--but so all us 3ed people can actually get into it.
I would think that if the 4E realms is a big failure, they may retcon it back to sensibility
I would think that if the 4E realms is a big failure, they may retcon it back to sensibility
I don't see them admitting mistake. They may leave open "loopholes" and such to appease gamers, but nothing will ever retcon back to a 3e mentality.
"Sensibility" does not exist in business.
Even then, none of that is really necessary. There's no actual need to explain a "Martial Power Source". Characters in books always did those sorts of things, anyway. There's no need to juggle Tempus and Red Knight to invent a reason for why Fighters can swing their sword twice and hit two guys or whatever. They always did that. The only difference, now, is that the mechanics better reflect the things that Fighters and other warriors in novels have been doing for years.
-Some new martial abilities might need some explaining, but, agree, I see no reason that they can't be explained "in-house". For example, a Fighter who can jumpe nine feet into the air now, is harnessing his/her 'Ki'. Yada, yada, yada...
It's not just about the roleplaying, my man. Its the love of the setting itself. You can easily twist things for your game and do anything, but the ongoing story, regions and characters we loved are no longer around.
Thats the problem.
-Indeedy deed.
I don't see them admitting mistake. They may leave open "loopholes" and such to appease gamers, but nothing will ever retcon back to a 3e mentality.
"Sensibility" does not exist in business.
Lets assume the 4E Realms is a bomb. No one is hitting the material on the Dragon site. The 3 books sell well below expectation and even the novels start to suffer. You don't think they would retcon it back in time, maybe bring in Ed and Steve Schend to write a supplement in hopes to get some readership. I think they would
what regions are gone?
-Multiple regions are either inherently changed (ie, Unther), or, literally, gone (Maztica).
Halruua exploded (most children of the realms couldn't even find it on the map!), and the Sea of Fallen Stars drained fifty feet.
-Interesting. And, where'd you get that stastistic from?
Waterdeep, Cormyr, Myth Drannor, the dale lands and tons of other places people loved to put quest NPCs are still there.
-And, an equal number of places people loved to "put quest NPCs" are no longer there.
Those people must run settings where a little red light comes on in a character's hand when they hit epic levels "no! I had 2 more levels to go! where are you taking me? NOOOO"
-Not understand what you are trying to convey here.
It is still the same setting.
-Just like the McDonalds of the 50's is the same fast food restaurant today. Same name, same basic premise, many "familiar" items, and various "unfamiliar" items. Would you say the McDonalds of the '50s is the same fast food restaurant as today's McDonalds?
the realms of today are coming out of a cataclysm much like the realms of 3rd edition and that whole Avatar Crisis hiccup. It is times such as this that heroes are needed.
-The 2e to 3e transition was not heralded in by crisis. It was, overall, silent.
Lets assume the 4E Realms is a bomb. No one is hitting the material on the Dragon site. The 3 books sell well below expectation and even the novels start to suffer.
-That's not going to happen, though.
I don't see them admitting mistake. They may leave open "loopholes" and such to appease gamers, but nothing will ever retcon back to a 3e mentality.
"Sensibility" does not exist in business.
At the moment, I'm swinging back and forth between the possibility that an utter failure of 4E FR will result in slow modifications to bring back some of the older feel. Restoration of Mystra, a fragment of Halruua re-appearing, various other things occurring one at a time or that they'll just abandon the setting. I'm hoping for the former since I won't tolerate current setup and I'd prefer not to see the setting die completely.
-Indeedy deed.
Indeedy Deedee, you slacker!
Lets assume the 4E Realms is a bomb. No one is hitting the material on the Dragon site. The 3 books sell well below expectation and even the novels start to suffer. You don't think they would retcon it back in time, maybe bring in Ed and Steve Schend to write a supplement in hopes to get some readership. I think they would
Thus, I mentioned "loopholes." But, no, they will not reverse time to save it.
-That's not going to happen, though.
Perhaps to some degree it will
At the moment, I'm swinging back and forth between the possibility that an utter failure of 4E FR will result in slow modifications to bring back some of the older feel. Restoration of Mystra, a fragment of Halruua re-appearing, various other things occurring one at a time or that they'll just abandon the setting. I'm hoping for the former since I won't tolerate current setup and I'd prefer not to see the setting die completely.
Previous post. I see your point.
Indeedy Deedee, you slacker!
-Never heard the phrase used like that before.
Perhaps to some degree it will
-Perhaps. I don't think the entire thing will be a "failure" to a degree that everyone begins trying to backpeddle and backtrack, though.
Previous post. I see your point.
Eh well, either scenario is dependent on 4E FR failing and I have no guarantee of that. I can only predict with relative certaintly myself and that's simple enough. I won't be paying a monthly fee for DDi and barring something surprising when I skim through the FR books at the store, I won't be buying either of the ones planned.
-Never heard the phrase used like that before.
Yuh. East coast retarded is a bit more retaded than midwest retarded. So, I'm sure it got lost in translation or dialect or something. ;)
Eh well, either scenario is dependent on 4E FR failing and I have no guarantee of that. I can only predict with relative certaintly myself and that's simple enough. I won't be paying a monthly fee for DDi and barring something surprising when I skim through the FR books at the store, I won't be buying either of the ones planned.
I would imagine thats the point, really. Those who just want the game will buy the three books.
Those that want the lore will buy the books and the subscription to DDI.
Then, when people who just buy the books come to these forums with questions, we'll all just tell them to subscribe to DDI.
All the world will be happy...!
Watch me now.
Break it for me, baby!
Yuh. East coast retarded is a bit more retaded than midwest retarded.
I -really- disagree. Obviously, you've never been to Santa Fe, NM. LOL. =just kidding= *cough*
I -really- disagree. Obviously, you've never been to Santa Fe, NM. LOL. =just kidding= *cough*
You're not midwest.
You're not...well,
, you aren't really anywhere. Therefore, you don't count. ;)You're not midwest.
You're not...well,
East coast isn't "midwest" either. ;)
We are too "somewhere"! NM is technically "southwest". I didn't mean that we were midwest, just that there are plenty of uhm.... challenged people here.
Yuh. East coast retarded is a bit more retaded than midwest retarded. So, I'm sure it got lost in translation or dialect or something. ;)
-I don't think so.
We are too "somewhere"! NM is technically "southwest". I didn't mean that we were midwest, just that there are plenty of uhm.... challenged people here.
Well, I'm glad that you are admitting that you are challenged. And I'm also glad you have established this place "southwest" in your mind--it means you are truly establishing an identity,
;)
-I don't think so.
Oh, of course not. The great land of Brooklyn is pure.
Well, I'm glad that you are admitting that you are challenged. And I'm also glad you have established this place "southwest" in your mind--it means you are truly establishing an identity, ;)
Oh that is IT! When you fly over Albuquerque on your next east-west transit, we may just have to shoot your plane down or redirect your flight to somewhere unholy like El Paso. Or Tucson! THEN you'll see how real we are, smartypants! :evillaugh
We learned how to use guns from the Texans, and unlike them we have nothing else to do here but shoot at moving targets in the sky. :evillaugh
Oh, of course not. The great land of Brooklyn is pure.
I -really- disagree. Obviously, you've never been to Santa Fe, NM. LOL. =just kidding= *cough*
Youre from Santa Fe? I grew up in Pojoaque. Live in Albuquerque now though/
Youre from Santa Fe? I grew up in Pojoaque. Live in Albuquerque now though/
No, I live in Albuquerque (also, lol). I avoid Santa Fe as much as possible.
Yeah east coast sucks I wanna go back west it is soooo nice out that way. Dry heat rules! Not to mention the women out that way...mmmhmmmm.
No, I live in Albuquerque (also, lol). I avoid Santa Fe as much as possible.
Spiffy. I knew there were people from the area on the boards, I just didnt know who lol. Its nice to know now.
Spiffy. I knew there were people from the area on the boards, I just didnt know who lol. Its nice to know now.
Likewise, good to meet you.
Likewise, good to meet you.
You as well! Now I wonder if youre someone I may have played in a casual game with at Active Imagination or UNM Gamers club meetings.
You as well! Now I wonder if youre someone I may have played in a casual game with at Active Imagination or UNM Gamers club meetings.
I live really close to UNM, but I haven't gotten involved with either AI (although I shop there from time to time) or the gamers' club. I'm kinda old, lol. Do you remember Wargames West, waaaay back when it was on Central Ave? ;) When it was still around, that was my heyday for pick-up games and RPGA games. Now it's mostly longtime friends that I run games for, but I think our group will die out with 4E and when I move out of state in August.
I live really close to UNM, but I haven't gotten involved with either AI (although I shop there from time to time) or the gamers' club. I'm kinda old, lol. Do you remember Wargames West, waaaay back when it was on Central Ave? ;) When it was still around, that was my heyday for pick-up games and RPGA games. Now it's mostly longtime friends that I run games for, but I think our group will die out with 4E and when I move out of state in August.
I do remember. I also remember Starbase 10. When I was a student at UNM I was the VP of the gamers club. That was about 3 or 4 years ago. We only had to have 33% of the club be students so we always welcomed non students. I dont go there so much anymore but AI has been pretty good to me so far. Lately Ive stayed with a pretty consistant group though and I think its going to remain that way for a while.
I do remember. I also remember Starbase 10. When I was a student at UNM I was the VP of the gamers club. That was about 3 or 4 years ago. We only had to have 33% of the club be students so we always welcomed non students. I dont go there so much anymore but AI has been pretty good to me so far. Lately Ive stayed with a pretty consistant group though and I think its going to remain that way for a while.
Awesome! Heh, now I'm feeling all nostalgic.
Oh, of course not. The great land of Brooklyn is pure.
-Indeed, it is. No...Not really, anymore. Give me 50's Brooklyn, and there you go.
Wow. Just wow. I'm away for a little while again, and those ^#&)&^$ at WotC destroy the FR boards to go along with the destruction of FR. WotC really, really does not want my consumer dollars.
They hope you will buy this stuff no matter they do to attract new players
…But I hope Zakhara is still around.
Reguardless of how well 4e FR goes over or not, I can't see them reverting anything back to how the setting was in 3e.
Indeed. If it doesn't do well they'll just abandon it like they did with GH IMO
No, I live in Albuquerque (also, lol). I avoid Santa Fe as much as possible.
So you live in the Southwest. I'd love to visit there someday, and see the desert.
Re: FR reverting back. I would not hold my breath for that.
Re: FR reverting back. I would not hold my breath for that.
But its the only hope we got
Oh that is IT! When you fly over Albuquerque on your next east-west transit, we may just have to shoot your plane down or redirect your flight to somewhere unholy like El Paso. Or Tucson! THEN you'll see how real we are, smartypants! :evillaugh
We learned how to use guns from the Texans, and unlike them we have nothing else to do here but shoot at moving targets in the sky. :evillaugh
Watch it, bub. If Texans taught you to shoot, you’re liable to be holding that gun backwards when you try to drop me from the sky. ;)
-Indeed, it is. No...Not really, anymore. Give me 50's Brooklyn, and there you go.
Isn’t that like me saying I wish I lived in the 1930’s of Chicago? I mean, Al Capone was a saint and everything....
But its the only hope we got
I bet you carry a lucky rabbits foot, too.
I bet you carry a lucky rabbits foot, too.
I don't. But I am holding on to this far-fetched hope like grim death
I don't. But I am holding on to this far-fetched hope like grim death
Then your death will be grim, indeed. ;)
I've been a realms fan since 1988, and I am so happy it's getting a facelift, with the glut of product it became a bit polluted for me, so I say bring on the reboot!
…But I hope Zakhara is still around.
-And, what exactly is 'pollution'?
Isn’t that like me saying I wish I lived in the 1930’s of Chicago? I mean, Al Capone was a saint and everything....
-Not particularly. Different eras are portray very different places. If find the aforementioned one preferable to the one today, for various reasons.
-Not particularly. Different eras are portray very different places. If find the aforementioned one preferable to the one today, for various reasons.
And I bet you watch a lot of Leave it to Beaver, as well.
Ah, the good ol' days....
And I bet you watch a lot of Leave it to Beaver, as well.
-Nope. Never seen it. I don't watch much television. The oldest television show I watch/watched on a regualar basis was M*A*S*H. Excluding, you know, cartoons, of course.
-Nope. Never seen it. I don't watch much television. The oldest television show I watch/watched on a regualar basis was M*A*S*H. Excluding, you know, cartoons, of course.
I'm sorry to hear that. You poor thing.
I'm sorry to hear that. You poor thing.
Nah. Television didn't really start until All in the Family
Nah. Television didn't really start until All in the Family
Hated that show. Hate most the shows from back then.
Besides, we all know that real TV didn't start until it became Reality TV.
Duh!
Hated that show. Hate most the shows from back then.
Besides, we all know that real TV didn't start until it became Reality TV.
Duh!
you like Leavie it to Beaver but hate All in the Family
you like Leavie it to Beaver but hate All in the Family
I didn't say I liked Leave it to Beaver, did I? I believe you misinterpreted what I was saying to Karsus.
I generally don't like any TV shows that are pre-90's.
But, if you insist, I would say that All in the Family trumps Leave it to Beaver any day. ;)
I didn't say I liked Leave it to Beaver, did I? I believe you misinterpreted what I was saying to Karsus.
I generally don't like any TV shows that are pre-90's.
But, if you insist, I would say that All in the Family trumps Leave it to Beaver any day. ;)
I suppose I did jump to a conclusion when you said "you poor thing"
I suppose I did jump to a conclusion when you said "you poor thing"
I meant that I felt bad that he subjected himself to watching M.A.S.H.
Granted, its a classic, but I never could stomach it.
Cuz it sucks... the more I know about LK, the more I think he's actually a closet liberal. :P :D
He's already described himself as "purple," so I don't think he is in the closet about it.
Cuz it sucks... the more I know about LK, the more I think he's actually a closet liberal. :P :D
-I am a Liberal Republican/Conservative Democrat.
He's already described himself as "purple," so I don't think he is in the closet about it.
-When was that?
-When was that?
We were swappin' posts a few weeks ago that vaguely skimmed the idea of politics. You answered something--forget what--and I replied with "That's why I always see red when I talk to you." You returned that you consider yourself "purple."
:D
Dunno about that... being into the Beatles and M*A*S*H sounds like uber-liberal bait to me. ;) :P
:D
Liberal Republican and Conservative Democrat are both oxymoron's. What else needs to be said?
And you just know he has a thing for the "uber" prefix.
I meant that I felt bad that he subjected himself to watching M.A.S.H.
Granted, its a classic, but I never could stomach it.
It was a great show.
It was a great show.
For the time--or, the overly joyful, I might add.
I thought Knight Rider was the
when I was ten. A-Team? The friggin' bomb, baby!!Watching reruns of those shows these days? How retarded does one get?
We were swappin' posts a few weeks ago that vaguely skimmed the idea of politics. You answered something--forget what--and I replied with "That's why I always see red when I talk to you." You returned that you consider yourself "purple."
-Oh, yes, that's right. I sit on the political spectrum where the red and the blue cross. Thus, as blue and red make purple...
-Oh, yes, that's right. I sit on the political spectrum where the red and the blue cross. Thus, as blue and red make purple...
Aptly put.
Now what does blue and yellow make, young master Karsus?
-And, what exactly is 'pollution'?
Oh come on, you know what pollution means.
…But I can appreciate what you're trying to do here…
Oh come on, you know what pollution means.
…But I can appreciate what you're trying to do here…
He probably wants you to explain how the FR setting became "polluted", as you were asserting.
Aptly put.
Now what does blue and yellow make, young master Karsus?
-I...don't know. Green?
Oh come on, you know what pollution means.
…But I can appreciate what you're trying to do here…
-The question was not answered.
All in the Family = WAY ahead of it's time - Norman Lear was a genius. When I watched when I was younger, I thought Archie was the predjudiced one. Now, watching it on TV Land I realize the true brilliance of the show, and how incredibly well it handled social issues.
Meathead was the real Bigot!
Pure Genius - I would recommend it to anyone who wants the closest thing to 'Reality TV' we had in the 70's - and probably less scripted then those shows. ;)
Leave it to Beaver - Aside from the GREAT title, the show is unwatchable today (as are most older shows). The Twilight Zone, however, never loses its 'cool'.
All in the Family = WAY ahead of it's time - Norman Lear was a genius. When I watched when I was younger, I thought Archie was the predjudiced one. Now, watching it on TV Land I realize the true brilliance of the show, and how incredibly well it handled social issues.
Married With Children of the day.
Yet, on the whole "social issues" thing, I found it to be quite racist in some ways.
For all of his badmouthing and stupid comments, Archie NEVER treated a black person (or someone of any race) badly, at least not any worse then he treated everyone.
Mike "felt sorry" for blacks, which is far more racist then Archie, and several episodes demonstrate this admirably. His 'liberal' attitude was so much more socially destructive - to this day we have lowered standards for certain races because of "Affirmative Action" - a very racist concept and extremely outdated now.
Archie was just a jerk, and a victim himself - a victim of being brought up in ignorance - he simply didn't know better. The show threw racism around the way South Park throws around toilet humor - its just to drive certain points home and make people think.
Anyhow, I think this has gone off topic, althogh I'm not sure what the topic really was - I can't take much more of anything, at this point.
Though I agree with you about most of that.
-I...don't know. Green?
Yep. I know this because I get a huge kick out of turning blue toilet water green when I pee in it (Been laughing about that since I was 10 and it never gets old). :D
"Yellow and blue make green. Yellow and blue make green."
*WIZZ*
Aren't you supposed to be in Lurk mode or something? :P
MT63 may have many talents but "lurking" should not be included among them
Yep. I know this because I get a huge kick out of turning blue toilet water green when I pee in it (Been laughing about that since I was 10 and it never gets old). :D
"Yellow and blue make green. Yellow and blue make green."
*WIZZ*
-I haven't seen blue toilet water in years...
Therein lies the brilliance - Archie was just ignorant, Mike was educated, and Still treated blacks differently.
Yet, Archie had more common sense and Mike was the beat whipped dope? I see no brilliance in it, concerning the way you justify it.
For all of his badmouthing and stupid comments, Archie NEVER treated a black person (or someone of any race) badly, at least not any worse then he treated everyone.
Of course, not. You have to have the head figure of the show stand up to moral standards. Right?
Mike "felt sorry" for blacks, which is far more racist then Archie, and several episodes demonstrate this admirably. His 'liberal' attitude was so much more socially destructive - to this day we have lowered standards for certain races because of "Affirmative Action" - a very racist concept and extremely outdated now.
What’s racist about that in that time and place?
What’s funny is that, up to this very post, everything I have read from you I have at least respected. This, I simply cannot get.
Now, granted, I don’t personally believe in “Affirmative Action,” but I do see its point. Your whole spiel there may explain why it was actually needed in the first place.
Archie was just a jerk, and a victim himself - a victim of being brought up in ignorance - he simply didn't know better. The show threw racism around the way South Park throws around toilet humor - its just to drive certain points home and make people think.
I believe you are correct in the whole Archie diagnosis, which confuses me as to why you would bring up the last. That toilet humor had to do with the real plight of human beings. And while I see your point with the South Park humor, at that time, its like us making fun of Katrina victim’s while they were still screaming "help" on the rooftops. The worst is over, but we are still being neglected.
Anyhow, I think this has gone off topic, althogh I'm not sure what the topic really was - I can't take much more of anything, at this point.
Indeed. Though, I am sure there is some technicality that can be found to make it subjective.
Either way, just so you know, I’m not being combative about this—I’m really not. I just have an objective point to this. It’s one of the reasons why I didn’t like All in the Family to begin with. Please don’t take offense. This just hits a button with me and I'd like to see where your views are being derived from. Nothing more.
-I haven't seen blue toilet water in years...
Hold it longer and pee on the toilet cake. It's simply wonderful. ;)
Maybe all those years spent in Berkeley soured my opinion of them, but many of the "Liberals" I've known are some of the most racist, condescending bastards I've ever had the displeasure to meet. Can't say I much care for the term Liberal being applied to them though...
Intersting input. Can't say one way or the other. I imagine most of your "liberals" hid behind the title for their own safety or amusement. I consider myself a liberal, or, at least, purple, and don't see things that way at all.
That Affirmative Action crap, in my opinion, was a political thing. Nothing more.
So again, I don't agree with it, but I fail to see how a dope character in All in the Family helped to establish it.
I consider myself a liberal, or, at least, purple, and don't see things that way at all.
-Someone in the purple spectrum isn't liberal. They are moderate. Liberals are blue, and conservatives are red. That said, I agree with Stig's take on the liberal elite. Speaking in general terms, that are likely to offend others, the liberal elite are just as racist, bigoted, and so on, as the archconservatives. As the saying goes, "Same ____, different smell."
It's because ideologies are actually like a ring. The opposite extremes become the same at one point, which is completely opposite of the moderates.
-Things aren't always so clear cut, but on many issues, that is quite correct. Different motives and/or reasons, but the effect is the same, or very similar.
Yep. I know this because I get a huge kick out of turning blue toilet water green when I pee in it (Been laughing about that since I was 10 and it never gets old). :D
"Yellow and blue make green. Yellow and blue make green."
*WIZZ*
I can't believe we're talking about this!
I can't believe we're talking about this!
-With a thread that has no real 'focus', does it really surprise you? The same thing happens when threads "live" long past meaningful conversation has ended, so, in this case, it basically starts from the get go.
-With a thread that has no real 'focus', does it really surprise you? The same thing happens when threads "live" long past meaningful conversation has ended, so, in this case, it basically starts from the get go.
True, true. I have to admit, I do appreciate the nerve it takes to start talking about "blue toilet water".
Which was rather my point... ;)
you may refer to me as Captain Obvious
you may refer to me as Captain Obvious
-*ahem*
Anyways the more I learn the less I like 4e overall as well as the new FR fluff. Hopefully when the rule books arrive the pendulum will swing the other way. Quothe the raven "nevermore".
The topic is "How much more of this can we take?" It does not specify as to what exactly. Thus it is all encompassing is it not?
-Incorrect. As it is a general category, the thread must, in the least, be Forgotten Realms specific. Urinal cakes is stretching that. Hell, why Elves aren't using guns, why Navy SEALS haven't killed all of the Drow, and why Ao hasn't been killed yet would be more on topic. ;)
The topic is "How much more of this can we take?" It does not specify as to what exactly. Thus it is all encompassing is it not?
Personally, I don't know how much more I can take from this explosive diarrhea I'm having.
-Someone in the purple spectrum isn't liberal. They are moderate.
Read what I wrote. I may just be moderate. I consider myself a liberal. I would consider both as purple—moderates a bit more red than purple, liberals a bit more blue than purple.
…I agree with Stig's take on the liberal elite. Speaking in general terms, that are likely to offend others, the liberal elite are just as racist, bigoted, and so on, as the archconservatives. As the saying goes, "Same ____, different smell."
Well, as I stated with Stig, many liberals simply hide behind the title to serve their own purposes. I, on the other hand, do not consider myself racist and bigoted—the very reason the whole thing about All in the Family came up in the first place. Claiming you are a liberal means you stand for justice and equality, not segregation and oppression. I won’t defend the actions of anyone you’ve known or met that has claimed the title, simply saying that, if they came off as “racist” and “bigoted” then they weren’t liberal to begin with. Much like many people claim to be “Christians,” yet adhere to no values that belong to the religion that they claim as their own.
It's because ideologies are actually like a ring. The opposite extremes become the same at one point, which is completely opposite of the moderates.
Nice observation.
Personally, I don't know how much more I can take from this explosive diarrhea I'm having.
And I believe this puts us back on topic. How much more can we take of this
.I would rather have GreenKnight's problem then deal with the new Realms
I think that would be rather problematic for your gaming sessions though.
-Incorrect. As it is a general category, the thread must, in the least, be Forgotten Realms specific. Urinal cakes is stretching that. Hell, why Elves aren't using guns, why Navy SEALS haven't killed all of the Drow, and why Ao hasn't been killed yet would be more on topic. ;)
-Dont forget the mandatory KILL DRIZZIT DURDEN THREADS! :P
Or the Chosen must be stopped threads!:embarrass Yeah Mystra's Chosen MUST be stopped!!!;) :P Or the troll thread by you know who. Yeah thats the FR Forums for ya!!! :bounce: :bounce: 18D:D
-Dont forget the mandatory KILL DRIZZIT DURDEN THREADS! :P
18D:D
I'm up for an 18DELTA's Smiley's Must Be Stopped thread.
Do these things just follow you home from work or what? You the Snow White of the smiley world? ;)
I'm up for an 18DELTA's Smiley's Must Be Stopped thread.
Do these things just follow you home from work or what? You the Snow White of the smiley world? ;)
-
Nah Gargamel.:P 18D:invasion:
-
18D:invasion:
18DELTA's smiley's are too powerful!! They MUST be stopped!
My damn PC's can't even kill a goblin without being overjoyed anymore.
-Incorrect. As it is a general category, the thread must, in the least, be Forgotten Realms specific. Urinal cakes is stretching that. Hell, why Elves aren't using guns, why Navy SEALS haven't killed all of the Drow, and why Ao hasn't been killed yet would be more on topic. ;)
Alright then FR equivelent. City of Songs.
As to affirmative action and the liberal elite, a lot of it goes back to the notion of the "White Man's Burden" and all that, and tends towards being an extension of that charming thought. Politics are essentially more organized and formalized extensions of prevailing social currents and tides that are currently affecting society, for the most part, when it comes down to it. Just look at the Red Scare and the House Un-American Activities Committee that it spawned if you want graphic proof of that one... there's really very little rational thought that goes on in politics, in either the Left or Right wings of our political spectrum.
Just look at Cormyr and the reforms that Azoun V tried to introduce... instituting progressive legal codes to make the judiciary system more just, and reactionary conservative forces came into play among the nobility and stopped it... which elicited a progressive reaction in the king to vow to push them through one day regardless of the nobles feelings on the matter. Business as usual for a government... just to bring it around a little. :D
And I voted against Azoun. Good riddance.
So basically most of the nobility is dead (assassins, battlefield) while other iconic characters fled or perished fighting those dark legions. Cormyr did not stand a chance in its weakened state. Too bad the chosen were not around....so sad.
Cormyr has been claimed by the Empire and Sembia is being eyed as well.
So the campaign I play in says bye bye to Cormyr. Also the Empire has sent veterans at raiding to Cormanthor to stir up trouble between the drow and the elves reclaiming Myth Drannor. Too bad history will most likely repeat itself again.....muahahahahaha!
I always loved haveing my PC kill elves, haflings, gnomes, fey, etc. Nothing like makeing them squeal like a stuck pig! Magical experimentation is fun when its one on one!
What can I say my PC is just an evil bastard.
What can I say my PC is just an evil bastard.
Hmmm...
His PC is an evil bastard.
To me, this is 3/4 of the fun of D+D. A KINGDOM should be a KINGDOM. It should be ruled by a King, who appoints lords, dukes, and entrenched power structures.
Nobility should be complex, and difficult to navigate. It should not be a festhall for liberal egalitarians.
Cormyr is actually the place that turned me off the MOST to the new Realms.
Because now, it doesn't matter if you're the son or the daughter of the Duke. A noble is nothing more than a disposable title, and not a political reality where if you accidentally trip on the guy's shoes, you could get into a great deal of trouble and/or plot seeds.
A noble doesn't HAVE to fight when a commoner attacks him. All he does is say "Pardon me, my good man. But you have laid hands upon the noble blood of Vedingor, son of Herpenax, Count Royal of the March of Fundree. You dare to challenge one of noble blood? Arrest this idiot! Be grateful I do not hang you!"
And the PC is either restrained, or he kills a whole bunch of people and is an outlaw.
That's why Nobility is a part of fantasy roleplay. Taking it out makes the game suck.
So Wizards can take their 4th edition Cormyr, and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.
I think that would be rather problematic for your gaming sessions though.
they are used to it
Hmmm...
His PC is an evil bastard.
Indeed my good fellow!
I am a nice guy in RL I just enjoy being evil in RPGs since no one is really hurt.
That's why Nobility is a part of fantasy roleplay. Taking it out makes the game suck.
I agree! It always is fun to play the intrigue game. I love it! Not to mention playing an Evil noble type and makeing sure the peasantry knows their place!
Indeed my good fellow!
I am a nice guy in RL I just enjoy being evil in RPGs since no one is really hurt.
Speaks volumes about your personality. ;)
Speaks volumes about your personality. ;)
Yes..yes it does...hmmmm. Well nice to me just means I do not rip someones head off and shove it up that someones ass for no good reason.
Yes..yes it does...hmmmm. Well nice to me just means I do not rip someones head off and shove it up that someones ass for no good reason.
Glad you set those morals high. And that you're reasonable sets an even higher mark.
BTW, your shakin' that ass all wrong. Swing with the left cheek and sway with the right.
Amateur.
Glad you set those morals high. And that you're reasonable sets an even higher mark.
BTW, your shakin' that ass all wrong. Swing with the left cheek and sway with the right.
Amateur.
Well I help little old ladies and look out for kids otherwise to hell wid'em!
Pfffft I hate that fast shakin garbage. I would rather dance to classical music. No line dancin either
. Give me metal, hard rock, classical or give me death! that feeling doesn't mean it's OK -much less a good idea- to go bonkers about it and engaging in textbook examples of hyperbole.
It's more than okay - it's awesome. The complaining posts are marvelously entertaining to read. I love reading the mix of raw outrage and occasional witty contempt. The brittle, defensive, "how dare you vent your emotions on these boards" posts are just annoying.
More complaining please! Less complaining about the complaining would be nice. Wizards of the Coast is a big company and can take care of itself.
It's more than okay - it's awesome. The complaining posts are marvelously entertaining to read. I love reading the mix of raw outrage and occasional witty contempt. The brittle, defensive, "how dare you vent your emotions on these boards" posts are just annoying.
You're my new hero. :D
However, the same people saying the same thing over and over does get a bit old.
We need all these 'new' FR fans that WotC is trying to generate, just so we can have a new generation of complainers. I figure when 5e comes out in a couple of years, us oldtimers can give them a shoulder to cry on. ;)
-Back to the regularly scheduled topic.
-No need to inflame sentiments. That topic ends now.
-Back to the regularly scheduled topic.
I forgot what the topic was. :-p
I forgot what the topic was. :-p
-Closest thing I can extrapolate would be the effects of having less than six sections, and it's effect on the community.
-Closest thing I can extrapolate would be the effects of having less than six sections, and it's effect on the community.
Thanks.
Well, it certainly makes for a lot of threads to sift through, especially if you skip a day.
However, it's possible that there are no more new threads to look through, overall, than when the there were more FR boards--in fact, for all I know there might be less. *shrug*
However, it's possible that there are no more new threads to look through, overall, than when the there were more FR boards--in fact, for all I know there might be less. *shrug*
-The average for the last few days has been:
28...29...32...25...(Active Threads)
Unfortunatly, WotC is a buisness, and their primary function is to be profitable. I understand what their trying to do, but I agree that it seems to be geared more for new players rather than the long timers. Their probably between a rock and a hard place, but that doesn't make me feel any better about it either.
If they want to be profitable, the least they could do is not constantly stomp on the people that have bought their products fairly reliably for years on end. My last purchase from WotC is probably going to be GHotR-and nothing 4e whatsoever as a consequence of everything they've done since the cancer of 4e started metastatizing.
-No need to inflame sentiments. That topic ends now.
I left just in time...
sort of...
I'm gone...
really...
:P